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Thread: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

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    Default French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Just saw on CNN that French aircraft are flying over Libya and have fired on a Libyan tank.

    Wonder how long it will be before the US is involved.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    I call it a sad day when the French military is out there protecting civilians and the U.S. is trying to avoid getting involved.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    The Libyan Army isn't trained well enough to put up a fight with American, British, or Western European forces.

    This might be a chance for a French victory.

    Might.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I call it a sad day when the French military is out there protecting civilians and the U.S. is trying to avoid getting involved.
    U.S. is now ''involved''. Don't know why you think it was something that was being avoided.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider View Post
    U.S. is now ''involved''. Don't know why you think it was something that was being avoided.
    Early reports suggested that Obama wanted to keep the us out of it as much as possible. The fact that the French reacted before us speaks volumes. We don't have assets in the air and Obama has said he wants the military to only be involved for a few days.

    That said, yes we've fired some missles. We are "involved". I might have been wrong.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    ugh, I hope we mind our own business.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    There are things that can be considered by most of the world to be evil. One of them is using heavy caliber, vehicle mounted, anti-aircraft weapons on packed masses of unarmed civilians. Another is slaughtering people who are in hospitals, or who are in other ways, not only unresisting and unarmed, but unable to resist. It IS our business, we are human.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Labeling this involvement a necessary "humanitarian" effort to protect innocent civilians while we've ignored true genocidal atrocities in parts of Africa that happen to lack oil is a joke. Let's just call it what it is- a purely politically motivated action to safeguard a major source of EU oil.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Ernie View Post
    Labeling this involvement a necessary "humanitarian" effort to protect innocent civilians while we've ignored true genocidal atrocities in parts of Africa that happen to lack oil is a joke. Let's just call it what it is- a purely politically motivated action to safeguard a major source of EU oil.
    That's certainly an aspect of it, but this is a totally different scenario from most genocidal atrocities in the past, imo.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    How so?

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Situations like Darfur and Rwanda aren't comparable to what's going on in Libya for a variety of reasons. The main being that in those siutations the main stream media never gave them the attention, and probably weren't capable of giving, that the Libyan situation is getting today.

    Also in those instances their wasn't the clear "evil enemy" that is represented in Gadhafi. I mean, before Bin Laden this guy was basically enemy #1 to the United States/West in the middle east.

    Many of the situations in Africa in the past have also lacked the political element that Libya has. Ofthen they were touched off by religious or ethnic issues versus a situation of democracy.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ignoring those things was right. Nor am I saying oil doesn't play a role here. I'm just saying that it's not the only, or even the central issue driving the action.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Ernie View Post
    Labeling this involvement a necessary "humanitarian" effort to protect innocent civilians while we've ignored true genocidal atrocities in parts of Africa that happen to lack oil is a joke. Let's just call it what it is- a purely politically motivated action to safeguard a major source of EU oil.
    A purely politically motivated action to safeguard a major source of EU oil that will save hundreds, easily thousands of innocent civilian lives. I can live with that.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    It also provides a nice distraction from the serious domestic economic issues that are presently flourishing.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    I've refrained from comment on this topic until more 'facts' surfaced. Indeed, it appears that the major European participants in the Libyan NATO military intervention have fairly obvious reasons for doing so ... The Dutch = Shell Oil , the Brits = BP , the French = Total Fina ... all of which have major stakes in Libyan Oil !!! It appears that US involvement in this military intervention has more or less been 'forced' by these NATO allies, since it is really only the US that has the strategic military assets to 'direct' such a combined forces operation.

    On the 'dark' side, with the Arab League now stepping back from early commitments to participate in the conflict, the question now arises as to precisely who the 'opposition forces' are that are receiving air cover and military support from these NATO countries. There are many known Al Queda cells in Libya ... the Muslim Brotherhood has many 'cousins' in Libya etc. This time the traditional doctrine of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' may clearly not apply !!! This may not matter much to the Dutch, Brits and French in comparison to their potential oil 'gains', but it should certainly matter to Americans.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    People are saying the allies are doing this to 'protect their interests in Lybian oil.' Sounds good.......(if you dont really think about it.)

    If they just stayed out of it and let Gadafi ruthlessly crush the uprising, it would be status quo with the oil, right?

    By stepping in and helping the uprising, it seems they are doing the opposite of protecting their interests in the oil.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    hmmm ... none of the US mainstream press bothered to publish this story !

    (snip)Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

    Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

    In an interview with the Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore, Mr al-Hasidi admitted that he had recruited "around 25" men from the Derna area in eastern Libya to fight against coalition troops in Iraq. Some of them, he said, are "today are on the front lines in Adjabiya".

    Mr al-Hasidi insisted his fighters "are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists," but added that the "members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting against the invader".

    His revelations came even as Idriss Deby Itno, Chad's president, said al-Qaeda had managed to pillage military arsenals in the Libyan rebel zone and acquired arms, "including surface-to-air missiles, which were then smuggled into their sanctuaries".

    Mr al-Hasidi admitted he had earlier fought against "the foreign invasion" in Afghanistan, before being "captured in 2002 in Peshwar, in Pakistan". He was later handed over to the US, and then held in Libya before being released in 2008."(snip)

    from

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Was reading Steve Martin's twitter page. He said he's thinking about canceling Libyan bluegrass tour.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    ^^^ undoubtedly, reverting to 'King Tut' would probably go over better with a Libyan audience these days !!!

    Seriously though, the Libyan situation has really become crazy. There are now Sky News reports that (snip) Western diplomatic sources have confirmed to Sky News that the US is considering the legality of arming the Libyan rebels. (snip). This potentially means that US weapons provided to Al-Queda connected Libyan 'rebels' could easily wind up being used by Al-Queda connected Iraqi and Afghan rebels to shoot Americans !!!

    Also, the ongoing 'progress' of Muslim Brotherhood elements in the 'new' gov'ts of Egypt, Algeria, soon to be Libya etc. is continue to pressure rising prices for oil and gas throughout the world. And somewhat like the old 'domino theory', protests continue to spread to other middle east countries i.e. Jordan and lately Syria ... which in turn is causing the Israelis to develop a very itchy trigger finger !!!

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ undoubtedly, reverting to 'King Tut' would probably go over better with a Libyan audience these days !!!

    Seriously though, the Libyan situation has really become crazy. There are now Sky News reports that (snip) Western diplomatic sources have confirmed to Sky News that the US is considering the legality of arming the Libyan rebels. (snip). This potentially means that US weapons provided to Al-Queda connected Libyan 'rebels' could easily wind up being used by Al-Queda connected Iraqi and Afghan rebels to shoot Americans !!!

    Also, the ongoing 'progress' of Muslim Brotherhood elements in the 'new' gov'ts of Egypt, Algeria, soon to be Libya etc. is continue to pressure rising prices for oil and gas throughout the world. And somewhat like the old 'domino theory', protests continue to spread to other middle east countries i.e. Jordan and lately Syria ... which in turn is causing the Israelis to develop a very itchy trigger finger !!!
    We learned our lesson with Stinger missiles.

    This time we will arm them with Soviet era weapons to effect a an aura of plausible denial-ability and a technological edge.

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    (snip)
    AL-QAEDA'S offshoot in North Africa has snatched surface-to-air missiles from an arsenal in Libya during the civil strife there, Chad's President says.

    Idriss Deby Itno did not say how many surface-to-air missiles were stolen, but told the African weekly Jeune Afrique that he was "100 per cent sure" of his assertion.

    "The Islamists of al-Qaeda took advantage of the pillaging of arsenals in the rebel zone to acquire arms, including surface-to-air missiles, which were then smuggled into their sanctuaries in Tenere," a desert region of the Sahara that stretches from northeast Niger to western Chad, Deby said in the interview.

    "This is very serious. AQIM is becoming a genuine army, the best equipped in the region," he said.

    His claim was echoed by officials in other countries in the region who said that they were worried that al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) might have acquired "heavy weapons", thanks to the insurrection.(snip)

    from

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    Default Re: French aircraft launch attacks in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    (snip)
    AL-QAEDA'S offshoot in North Africa has snatched surface-to-air missiles from an arsenal in Libya during the civil strife there, Chad's President says.

    Idriss Deby Itno did not say how many surface-to-air missiles were stolen, but told the African weekly Jeune Afrique that he was "100 per cent sure" of his assertion.

    "The Islamists of al-Qaeda took advantage of the pillaging of arsenals in the rebel zone to acquire arms, including surface-to-air missiles, which were then smuggled into their sanctuaries in Tenere," a desert region of the Sahara that stretches from northeast Niger to western Chad, Deby said in the interview.

    "This is very serious. AQIM is becoming a genuine army, the best equipped in the region," he said.

    His claim was echoed by officials in other countries in the region who said that they were worried that al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) might have acquired "heavy weapons", thanks to the insurrection.(snip)

    from
    As weapons of terror those launchers will be effective against air liners. They will most likely be older SA-7s which are IR (heat seeking). No guarantee these will take down an airliner though. I was on patrol in Iraq when a DHL commercial cargo plane was hit at its most vulnerable time, low, slow, and fuel of fuel at take off. Even with a wing on fire, the pilot circled around and landed again.

    As for the other "heavy weapons" it is antique Soviet stuff. This is a threat to the poorer African Nations but, not outside the confines of North Africa. the equipment doesn't make the Army, the training and Leadership makes the Army.

    We saw this when Chad beat Libya a few years ago, Libyan tanks and Jets were defeated by Chad with missile launchers on the back of toyota pickups.

    My guess would be that Chad is looking for some "assistance money".

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