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Thread: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

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    Search Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Stealing my post from the "I don't buy dances thread", does anyone think the below is fair and remotely workable?

    "Yeah the industry norm is an interesting incentive/compensation structure to be sure. On one hand, clear legal benefits of the system are clear as the club has no employee benefits, payroll taxes and other obligations (unless they make otherwise). Also makes it a little self filtering, since those that don't make the minimum will drop out.

    At the same time, there is a free rider problem where your presence and beauty attracts revenues (door fees, drinks etc.) that you don't benefit from. It's a little tricky since if they do revenue share based on say your overall performance then they're legally an employer. I think maybe if customers put money in a general tip pool (like at hotel) so that you get something even if they just looked at you but didn't buy a dance that would be helpful. Even better if they could list their top 5 dancers to allocate it towards and there's a house minimum (say $50) so even if you don't buy a single dance, it supports the dancers.

    Obviously this is getting complicated but if a MBA dancer ever starts up a club, give this a try and hire me as a consultant! I think it'll help align the incentives a bit since most dancers (granted not all) definitely add value just by being there even if you don't sell a single dance!"
    Last edited by yyyrrrrtt; 04-23-2011 at 10:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    I think they do something like that in England. If the guys want to see a girl on stage they have to put $ in a jar so a girl will go up and dance. I think the US is the only country in the world where they don't have any pay for dancers at all. Of course most countries only have prostitution though, not dancing. Don't they only dance as a way of selling sex? Maybe I'm wrong?
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Stage is nice but a mandatory dance minimum (maybe you buy tokens at the door) or money for the tip pool (okay maybe choosing dancers is too complicated so maybe rebate against the house dance fee - that way those that just show up but don't really work can't freeload either) would work a lot better.

    It's like going to a nightclub and them requiring a 3 bottle minimum or $50 bar tab per person - it protects against "freeloaders." With a bar, the incentives are pretty aligned since presumably you'll tip the bartender, so the more drinks you buy everyone wins.

    Haha maybe we could get Harvard to write up a case study!

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    I think they should make the freeloaders sit in an area where they have limited visibility like standing room seats at a sporting event.

    If theyre at a stage they should be paying!
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    I once worked at a club with freeloaders. This club had free admission to boot so they'd come in, buy a beer or soda then sit at the stage for hours. They rarely if ever tipped and never bought dances. In fact at this club I got yelled at because I refuse to take off my top unless their were tipping customers. I once asked one of the managers why they didn't require at least them to buy one dance and he saidbecause it might turn away paying customers. I disagree about that, I think the freeloaders actually turned the regular customers off.

    I've never thought it was fair that we had to dance on the stage or even many of the rules. Too many clubs were independent contractor clubs yet they had rules like when or if you could eat, when you could work or other rules.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by yyyrrrrtt View Post

    It's like going to a nightclub and them requiring a 3 bottle minimum or $50 bar tab per person - it protects against "freeloaders."
    no that is not the same....the difference being a bar minimum is profit for the club/establishment....a dance or tip minimum is profit for the dancers....VERY big difference....

    sorry but no club owner in their right mind would ever agree to a "dance minimum" or a "tip minimum" at the door....this would just drive away customers who want to come in for some beers and leave....and i already know what you are thinking "who cares"....sure as dancers we might say "who cares" but the club owners WOULD CARE that's who!!

    the owners have to do what is best for their club/business before they do what is best for the dancers....simple business logic....dancers are easy to replace....customers are not....customers get driven away to other places then the club shuts down....seems like simple logic to me....

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    "Sylvia" your logic is wrong. Men are coming into the clubs to see dancers. In fact many clubs are making far more from the dancers than they are from cheap customers. One owner even told me this, that they didn't make a lot from the cheapos who come into drink but not tip. Screw the guys who don't come in for anything but a drink. They can go to another club because dancers are the reason they are there, not the beer. In return as a dancer making tips, they shouldn't have to dance for these losers.

    I used to think you were a manager but I am convinced you are a cheap customer instead. Either way, you are a man.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post

    I used to think you were a manager but I am convinced you are a cheap customer instead. Either way, you are a man.
    LOL yep.
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    Men are coming into the clubs to see dancers.
    i have never disagreed with that point, but what im saying is from a business point of view it does not make sense to limit your customers to only customers who tip or buy dances,

    the more customers that enter the club, the more money the club makes, plain and simple, it does not matter what the customers are doing in there, the club is making more money,

    you never know exactly why a customer is in the club, just because a customer does not buy dances today does not mean they will not be back at a later date to do so, it has happened to me many times, or they could be there looking for a place to hold a future bachlor party, why would you want to discourage that?

    a customer who spends 20 dollars today on drinks might spend 500 bucks at the club next week, if that customer was not allowed to enter the club to spend that 20 bucks on drinks do you think he is going to return to spend his 500?....NO! he will spend it elsewhere!

    you do not have any business sense or logic, a paying customer = profits plain and simple, and going back to my previous point, dancers are a dime a dozen and easy to replace, paying customers are not easy to replace especially in this economy, any customer is a good customer, and you want the club to pick and choose their customers?....lol

    for ever girl who refuses to dance without being tipped there are 100 waiting in line to take her place.....sorry hun but those are the facts
    Last edited by Sylvia; 04-27-2011 at 05:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    a guy who regularly comes in and doesn't spend money on dances / tip on stage is not going to wake up one day and come back and spend 500$

    they obviously don't respect the girls enough to spare a few dollars. Even if they magically had 500$ in disposable income they would not even think to go and spend it on dances / tips. They are used to not spending it on the girls.

    I'm sure that the possibility is there but there is no way that you are a stripper and think that could be true. Cheap customer vote.
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by loren View Post
    I think they do something like that in England. If the guys want to see a girl on stage they have to put $ in a jar so a girl will go up and dance. I think the US is the only country in the world where they don't have any pay for dancers at all. Of course most countries only have prostitution though, not dancing. Don't they only dance as a way of selling sex? Maybe I'm wrong?
    The £1 in a jar thing is only in a few places around London, the reason they do this is because the stage show is nude, which ii is not in anywhere else but thesse places in the Uk, also all the girls working will take in turns and do the stage shows, the guys to not get to pick, they have to give each girl at least a £1.
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by luscious sadie View Post
    a guy who regularly comes in and doesn't spend money on dances / tip on stage is not going to wake up one day and come back and spend 500$

    they obviously don't respect the girls enough to spare a few dollars. Even if they magically had 500$ in disposable income they would not even think to go and spend it on dances / tips. They are used to not spending it on the girls.

    I'm sure that the possibility is there but there is no way that you are a stripper and think that could be true. Cheap customer vote.
    Yeah. The cheap customers I mention were ones that came in all the time, bought a beer, nursed it for hours, then left. They never bought dances.

    "Sylvia" is so wrong. Managers have told me they made more from dancers than these guys.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    ^^ yeah the club makes MUCH MUCH MORE off of dances (my club makes $6 from each dance) and vips (club makes $60 to $100 from each vip i do, depending on the length).

    if i have a good day the club is making $100 - $200 off of me; now compare THAT to one or two beers that a CHEAP customer buys!

    seriously sylvia - you will NEVER be right about this, because you can only see things from your point of view, which is the view of an angry tightwad customer! i lmao whenever i read any of your posts

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Elusive21 View Post
    ^^ yeah the club makes MUCH MUCH MORE off of dances (my club makes $6 from each dance) and vips (club makes $60 to $100 from each vip i do, depending on the length).

    if i have a good day the club is making $100 - $200 off of me; now compare THAT to one or two beers that a CHEAP customer buys!
    i never said the club makes more money off beer then they do off dances...they dont...but why would they want to discourage the "beer drinker" from coming into the club when this customer is also making them money???

    the owners can have the best of both worlds by allowing both types of customers in the club..."the beer drinker"...and the guys who buy dances and tip...so why would they want to limit themselves and their profits to only one, when both of them make the club money??

    you are only looking at things through the eyes of a greedy dancer...you are there to make money and i understand that but the club needs to make money also and they do that through BOTH bar sales and dances...no need to limit themselves to only one...

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Domino effect. Good customers see that other customers are not tipping and getting dances so they stop spending money. Its a herd mentality in strip clubs.

    Also it pisses off the dancer's and lowers morale

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Elusive21 View Post

    Also it pisses off the dancer's and lowers morale
    a pissed off dancer can leave and not come back....you are easily replaced....a pissed off customer will not come back and can not be replaced....big difference....sorry hun but those are the facts....

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    i never said the club makes more money off beer then they do off dances...they dont...but why would they want to discourage the "beer drinker" from coming into the club when this customer is also making them money???

    the owners can have the best of both worlds by allowing both types of customers in the club..."the beer drinker"...and the guys who buy dances and tip...so why would they want to limit themselves and their profits to only one, when both of them make the club money??

    you are only looking at things through the eyes of a greedy dancer...you are there to make money and i understand that but the club needs to make money also and they do that through BOTH bar sales and drink sales
    Let me explain why it's a bad thing. Cheap guys=girls quitting, which means either
    less good looking girls or ones who will do extras. Extra girls=getting busted vice and perhaps being shut down and decent girls leaving. Less good looking girls=less other customers coming in= means less money.

    In summary so you don't miss it:

    Less good looking girls=less customers
    Extras girls=being closed or arrested

    Btw, this isn't a fantasy this is reality. I once worked at a bar with cheapos. All the dancers would complain that these cheapos came in without tipping. The majority of the club were cheapos. So dancers quit, including me. The club lowered its standards and brought in anyone who wanted to dance. Most were extras girls, the club got busted and it is out of business. Oh and once the good looking girls quit so did the few high spending customers.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Sylvia's thinking would SO not work in my club. We are full nude, BYOB, there is no money made off drinks, the ONLY money the club makes is off us dancers, so, charging a higher door fee actually benefits us because it keeps the cheapos out.

    Case in point: one of our door guy's friends gets let in for free all the time. Saturday night I was working the door and told him "No, the cover charge is $15." He refused to come in saying "I ain't gotta pay to see nekkid bitches." He NEVER spends money, doesn't even tip a dollar, so we lost no money there.

    In all actuality, there is a herd mentality in the strip club. If no one is tipping, no one will start, however, IF someone is tipping, it starts something of a tip war. Just have to get them to start.
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    ^
    I've noticed that if there is a table or two of guys who are tipping a lot or buying dances, all the other men will likewise start tipping and buying dances more. I think it must tap into the competitive part of the male psyche. Freeloaders have the opposite effect.

    So the club makes money off of selling alcohol? Well chances are, if there weren't semi nude women around, that one-beer-nursing-stage-oggling freeloader would have gone somewhere else for his beer. The selling of overpriced drinks is due to the presence of the dancers. The dancers are the only thing that give a strip club any value. Without them, it's just an overpriced club or sports bar.

    And yeah, Sylvia is a cheapskate customer and a creep to boot. He was outing dancers' real names on another thread.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post

    you are only looking at things through the eyes of a greedy dancer..

    NOT a dancer. This says it all.
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Elusive21 View Post
    Domino effect. Good customers see that other customers are not tipping and getting dances so they stop spending money. Its a herd mentality in strip clubs.

    Also it pisses off the dancer's and lowers morale
    Sylvia, aren't you even going to address the first paragraph of my post? do u agree or disagree with this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    a pissed off dancer can leave and not come back....you are easily replaced....a pissed off customer will not come back and can not be replaced....big difference....sorry hun but those are the facts....
    Actually, you have that wrong. It's YOU who is easily replaced. From a managers point of view, which is worth more:

    A.) A customer who is a cheapskate. Only pays for a couple of drinks for himself. Doesnt tip much. Never buys dances although he has the potential to buy dances lol (so u spend, what, maybe $50 per each strip club visit im assuming)

    OR

    B.) A dancer who works 3 to 6 days a week. Each time she works the club makes $100-$200 off of her. she has many regulars (who will follow her to her next club in the case that she gets fired) and shes been working at this club for YEARS and the club has been making tens of thousands of dollars off of her for years. plus she dances for the owners friends and has good rapport wit the other custys.

    yeah id like to see the owner fire this girl. lol especially since most strippers tend to be subsistence strippers. a girl like this is very very valuable, whereas customers like you sylvia are easily expendable.

    youre right that managers and owners only care about money. so they will ALWAYS go with who has been giving them money the longest and will continue to do so in the future. unless youre a high roller thats been coming into the club for years or are related or friends with management (which you are clearly not either of these), dont you dare assume that you are more important than the dancers, because thats a stupid mistake.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Wanted to add: if the ratio of cheap-ass customers strongly outweighs the spending customers, then the younger, hotter, more profitable dancers will move clubs. There's kind of an ebb-and-flow where I live around the clubs, and it changes up every 6-8 months.

    The cheapy-custys will hear theres a lot of hot girls working at club X, so that's where the cheapo's will go. More and more non-paying/non-tipping customers will head to club X, and the girls will get more and more irritated and tired that every night it's harder and harder to make the same money. The dancers then pick up and start doing the majority of their shifts at another club some girl in the dressing room was talking about, Club Y. That works out well for a couple months, until the cheap customers realize all the hot, young dances are now gone from club X, so they go seek them out at club Y. The girls move clubs again, after a while the customers follow, etc.

    It seems that the club with the best looking girls are the ones that bring in the most customers. If the customers aren't spending, then the girls WILL move, and the club will soon empty out. It really is in managements best interest to keep their profitable dancers in the club - any good club worth it's salt will acknowledge that.

    I've worked at clubs where management doesn't care; it really does bring the moral down for the girls. and the place ends up clearing out.



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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    I have a feeling Sylvia is Laxman.

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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    "Sylvia" your logic is wrong. Men are coming into the clubs to see dancers. In fact many clubs are making far more from the dancers than they are from cheap customers. One owner even told me this, that they didn't make a lot from the cheapos who come into drink but not tip. Screw the guys who don't come in for anything but a drink. They can go to another club because dancers are the reason they are there, not the beer. In return as a dancer making tips, they shouldn't have to dance for these losers.
    ^Thank you^ There are plenty of pubs in every town for cheap losers to drink in. The bartenders and managers of those pubs will kick them the hell out for not tipping!!! I have worked as a bartender and as a cocktail waitress. I would never tolerate that.
    typical responses to freeloaders - I'm sorry my tray is full - I'm not in your section - you've had too much to drink you have to leave. Don't come back - ur 86'd. You can't get a comp drink unless I see you put $20 in the machine and play a full load. etc....
    Smart managers don't want freeloaders in their pub or casino because it's bad for business. They scare off the good customers. Good customers don't want to be surrounded by freeloading losers. Good customers want to have a good time in a positive environment.
    People who think it's ok for anyone to tolerate the unacceptable behavior of freeloaders are just plain arrogant and ignorant.
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    Last edited by loren; 04-28-2011 at 03:48 AM.
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    Default Re: Paying the House / Dancer Compensation

    How about a private stage area? Guys have to pay a minimum to see naked girls on the stage. Is that asking too much? I don't think so. Instead of a $20 entrance fee make it a $30 entrance fee $15 of that is a lapdance certificate. Also have $10 entrance fee to the stage area with an additional $10 fee for each 15 minutes. That will ecourage guys to buy lap dances instead. Guys should also be told that they can have conversations with dancers for $5 per song at the door. They should also be told that if they sexually assault or solicit any dancer for prostitution they will be kicked out no refund!

    Unfortunately - common sense is not common.
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