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Thread: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    I just read an article that said that 90% of millionaires have college degrees.
    And I just read an article that says that 15% of US Mail Carriers have Bachelor's Degrees ... with the major job skill requirements being the ability to read and the ability to carry a 70 pound sac ! Of course, the globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits of US Mail Carriers probably has a lot to do with those Bachelor's Degree graduates choosing to deliver mail. And that globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits also has a lot to do with the fact that the US Postal Service is A. bankrupt and B. uncompetitive versus 'global economy' delivery options. The ONLY reasons that the US Postal Service is still in business at all are the gov't dictated monopoly on 'letter' deliveries within the USA ( which permits them to pass on outrageous delivery prices to consumers who are denied other options ) and stealth subsidies from US taxpayers. But these days, having a Bachelor's Degree may make the difference between being hired as a US Mail Carrier or not !!!

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    And I just read an article that says that 15% of US Mail Carriers have Bachelor's Degrees ... with the major job skill requirements being the ability to read and the ability to carry a 70 pound sac ! Of course, the globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits of US Mail Carriers probably has a lot to do with those Bachelor's Degree graduates choosing to deliver mail. And that globally unrealistic $45k per year median salary and wall to wall employee benefits also has a lot to do with the fact that the US Postal Service is A. bankrupt and B. uncompetitive versus 'global economy' delivery options. The ONLY reasons that the US Postal Service is still in business at all are the gov't dictated monopoly on 'letter' deliveries within the USA ( which permits them to pass on outrageous delivery prices to consumers who are denied other options ) and stealth subsidies from US taxpayers. But these days, having a Bachelor's Degree may make the difference between being hired as a US Mail Carrier or not !!!
    Heard about all these janitors with PHd's?
    The best bang for the buck in education is to get 2 accredited Associates degrees from a community college. Lot's of people in my area do it.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    Heard about all these janitors with PHd's?
    The best bang for the buck in education is to get 2 accredited Associates degrees from a community college. Lot's of people in my area do it.
    Hmmmmm.

    A data point. In my company, in my department, if someone, anyone comes in with an Associates in Accounting (ledger posting in reality) and some other Associates degree, we'll pay $40,000 a year with a good benefits package. No Associates but experience posting accounts, $30-35,000 depending on how much experience. Have a B.Sc. in Accounting and the pay scale starts at ~ $60,000/year with a good benefits package. Have the C.P.A. and we'll start you at ~ $110,000, more with experience.

    HTH
    Z

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    Hmmmmm.

    A data point. In my company, in my department, if someone, anyone comes in with an Associates in Accounting (ledger posting in reality) and some other Associates degree, we'll pay $40,000 a year with a good benefits package. No Associates but experience posting accounts, $30-35,000 depending on how much experience. Have a B.Sc. in Accounting and the pay scale starts at ~ $60,000/year with a good benefits package. Have the C.P.A. and we'll start you at ~ $110,000, more with experience.

    HTH
    Z
    This is relieving news for me. My associates will be in business administration. I am 4 classes away from getting it. I was worried that an associate's in business would get me nowhere. This gives me hope even though my major isnt accounting.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by shift_6x View Post
    This is relieving news for me. My associates will be in business administration. I am 4 classes away from getting it. I was worried that an associate's in business would get me nowhere. This gives me hope even though my major isnt accounting.
    I'm not really convinced of the value of an Associates degree, unless it is in some specialty like accounting (ledger posting) or medical coding. However, some hotel/motel chains do have a night position for an "accountant" who is really just doing minor record keeping. It's not a bad job, in smaller hotels/motels, you do have to cover the desk from 11:00 PM to about 5:00 AM. The money is horrible, $30-40,000/year minimal health insurance, few if any days off, lots of weekends and the like. But, if you are a night shift dancer facing the end of the career, it's not a bad transition.

    HTH
    Z

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    I'm not really convinced of the value of an Associates degree, unless it is in some specialty like accounting (ledger posting) or medical coding. However, some hotel/motel chains do have a night position for an "accountant" who is really just doing minor record keeping. It's not a bad job, in smaller hotels/motels, you do have to cover the desk from 11:00 PM to about 5:00 AM. The money is horrible, $30-40,000/year minimal health insurance, few if any days off, lots of weekends and the like. But, if you are a night shift dancer facing the end of the career, it's not a bad transition.

    HTH
    Z

    Thank u for ur input. My major is business admn not accounting I suck at accounting but I did well in the supervision business classes, organizational behavior, international business and economics clases I got mostly As and a few Bs. I actutally just got a B in accounting 212 which I took before 211 actually..But honestly I dont get alot of accounting I kinda suck at it..Im not sure what kinds of jobs to even apply for..Im also not that spectacular with computers..Im really good being convincing and aggressive though..ANd Im highly analytical..I just dont know what to try..I have no role model..

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    I'm not really convinced of the value of an Associates degree...
    Truthfully there are very few places where an Associates Degree offers a lot of advantages.

    Shift, is there any reason why you couldn't continue on for your Bachelor Degree?

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Truthfully there are very few places where an Associates Degree offers a lot of advantages.

    Shift, is there any reason why you couldn't continue on for your Bachelor Degree?

    When it comes down to it I am getting too old. I cant dance too much longer(Im in my early 30s). I also dont know that I want to rack up 20,000 in student loan debt just to get a bachelor's. The debt doesnt seem to be worth it although I am not completely opposed to the idea. Also I dont see myself wanting to take two more years worth of school. I dont like school. It is extremely stressful and I am still trying to build a nest egg before I retire whichi s going to be soon. I am still trying to build that egg and I go to school part time usually. It is proving to be a tough situation bc an entry level position w an associates that ive seen pays maybe 11/hr if Im lucky..I am not ready for the drop in my money and compared to what some girls' expenses are mine rnt high. Like I have said in some of my other posts I really dont want to work 60 hrs a week to pull in maybe 5-600 at that pay rate. That would make me miserable...I dont know what to do exactly..All I know is that I am trying to save. I know I could stay in the bar business and do something else besides dance if need be. I could do that at 35/36 if need be just around that age I should no longer be on a runway..Im trying to find out what positions are available w a 2 yr bus admn degree...Tried researching online and I didnt have much luck.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    shift_6x,

    There are some companies that will pay your tuition for college if you work for them. If you can get a job with a company that does this, you can get a college degree without running up any debt.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    ^^^ true, but usually such tuition reimbursement offers come with 'strings attached' .... i.e. the major you choose may need to be directly applicable to the employer's future work requirements, you may need to commit to working X years for the employer after graduation ( or pay the employer back for the cost of tuition etc ). And then there is the more basic issue of having to work a full 8 hour a day job and THEN take and PASS college courses at night for 4-6-8 years !!!

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    shift_6x,

    There are some companies that will pay your tuition for college if you work for them. If you can get a job with a company that does this, you can get a college degree without running up any debt.

    Eagle.....Pls point me int he direction of these companies..I really dont know where to start looking. Ive looked on craigslist and most admn jobs are low paying and part time..

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ true, but usually such tuition reimbursement offers come with 'strings attached' .... i.e. the major you choose may need to be directly applicable to the employer's future work requirements, you may need to commit to working X years for the employer after graduation ( or pay the employer back for the cost of tuition etc ). And then there is the more basic issue of having to work a full 8 hour a day job and THEN take and PASS college courses at night for 4-6-8 years !!!

    Melonie---U r right even if I did luck out and find a job that would pay for my bachelor's I dont think I could pull an 8 hour workday which in itself is demanding and then go to school part time for 6 years to get a bachelor's by that time Ill be 45 lol...

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by shift_6x View Post
    When it comes down to it I am getting too old. I cant dance too much longer(Im in my early 30s). I also dont know that I want to rack up 20,000 in student loan debt just to get a bachelor's. The debt doesnt seem to be worth it although I am not completely opposed to the idea. Also I dont see myself wanting to take two more years worth of school. I dont like school. It is extremely stressful and I am still trying to build a nest egg before I retire whichi s going to be soon. I am still trying to build that egg and I go to school part time usually. It is proving to be a tough situation bc an entry level position w an associates that ive seen pays maybe 11/hr if Im lucky..I am not ready for the drop in my money and compared to what some girls' expenses are mine rnt high. Like I have said in some of my other posts I really dont want to work 60 hrs a week to pull in maybe 5-600 at that pay rate. That would make me miserable...I dont know what to do exactly..All I know is that I am trying to save. I know I could stay in the bar business and do something else besides dance if need be. I could do that at 35/36 if need be just around that age I should no longer be on a runway..Im trying to find out what positions are available w a 2 yr bus admn degree...Tried researching online and I didnt have much luck.
    Well, I can understand not wanting to be in school, but if you are getting an Associates Degree then it was just my thought that you might as well see it through to your Bachelor's Degree. You may be getting long in the tooth for dancing, but you're young in terms of the general workforce. A degree in a couple of years could significantly boost your earnings for 30 or more years after!

    Now there has been a lot of debate around here about the merits of a college education, but those debates involve general stats that treat a degree in Business Administration the same as a degree in Philosophy. They aren't even close to the same. Philosophy, English Lit., and a variety of other essentially useless liberal arts degrees significantly drag the averages down. Believe me when I say that if you obtain a degree in Finance, Accounting or even general Bus. Admin. you will likley do FAR better than you ever will without one.

    In terms of financing, there are a ton of options out there. First off, even if you did finance 20k you'd earn it back quickly with a business degree. However, I don't see why it needs to be that drastic. There should be plenty of 4 year state schools close by that would be fairly cheap. Also, there are financial aid options which may include grants and workstudy, neither of which need to be paid back.

    Anyway, just my

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Well, I can understand not wanting to be in school, but if you are getting an Associates Degree then it was just my thought that you might as well see it through to your Bachelor's Degree. You may be getting long in the tooth for dancing, but you're young in terms of the general workforce. A degree in a couple of years could significantly boost your earnings for 30 or more years after!

    Now there has been a lot of debate around here about the merits of a college education, but those debates involve general stats that treat a degree in Business Administration the same as a degree in Philosophy. They aren't even close to the same. Philosophy, English Lit., and a variety of other essentially useless liberal arts degrees significantly drag the averages down. Believe me when I say that if you obtain a degree in Finance, Accounting or even general Bus. Admin. you will likley do FAR better than you ever will without one.

    In terms of financing, there are a ton of options out there. First off, even if you did finance 20k you'd earn it back quickly with a business degree. However, I don't see why it needs to be that drastic. There should be plenty of 4 year state schools close by that would be fairly cheap. Also, there are financial aid options which may include grants and workstudy, neither of which need to be paid back.

    Anyway, just my
    There are not plenty of 4 year schools that are cheap. The average credit hour in state is over $270 here at a public university. So after fees and taxes we are talking over $1000 per three credit class! And unfortunately grants do not cover the full costs I know Ive talked to others who have graduated w their 4 yr degree. This area is extremely competitive and the pay is low for ur average job. Many people relocate to DC bc the pay is awful for ur avg job..Its sickening but this area is overrun with people..Thats why even if say I could snap my fingers and have my 4 yr business degree I would struggle to find a job. Everyone wants experience only and Id be overqualified for some entry level positions. So ther eis not guarantee say within the first yr of obtaining the degree that Id even be able to find a job w the degree. Plus I already have some past issues that will make employment difficult. Thats stacked up against me too. And yes being n my early 30s means Im on my way out in terms of the dancing business..ID prolly haev to move home to afford switching careers at this point. Starting out w anything new will mean I have to start out at the bottom all over again and the bottom doesnt pay.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by shift_6x View Post
    Eagle.....Pls point me int he direction of these companies..I really dont know where to start looking. Ive looked on craigslist and most admn jobs are low paying and part time..
    UPS will pay up to $3,000 a year in tuition for part-time employees.

    https://ups.managehr.com/EarnandLearnProgram.htm

    Here's a page that lists some companies that will pay your tuition:

    http://college.lovetoknow.com/Compan...ay_for_College

    My friend works at GE and they reimburse her for her tuition.

    I'm not sure, but I think most colleges and universities let their employees go to school for free.
    Last edited by eagle2; 06-23-2011 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    I worked for Progress Energy, they paid for my MBA, no strings attached. Duke Energy does the same thing. GSK has tuition reimbursement.

    HTH
    Z

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    i agree that college costs are starting to exceed the value/potential of the degree, and perhaps one should aim for as much scholarship money as possible.

    that said, i dont think stripping is necessarily the answer for most either.

    melonie, a lotta the arguments u used about college can be applied to stripping too. for example, college costs skyrocketing in recent decades...know what else has skyrocketed?...a stripper's HOUSE FEES and the money that is siphoned from stripper's earnings as well as costs for professional stripper gear and stripper heels, while the potential to make easy money at a stripclub has gone down in recent yrs. u say colleges are supersaturated with too many college students, but then again alotta stripclubs are supersaturated with too many dancers...which means the average dancer has to compete with more extras-givers, cut-throat bully dancers, fugly dancers who most likely scare away more business than help it (this point about unattractive dancers was overkilled in the "fat girls dancing" thred a few weeks ago), than ever before. u quote that these days even a "trained cat" could pass courses at most colleges, but then again unfortunately most clubs have lowered standards enough that even a "grommed cat" could prolly get onto the stage at some strip clubs lol. ok not literally but i think u know what i mean. why else would there be all these "unattractive dancers" and "fat girls dancing" bitch fest threds here on sw if that wasnt the case??! just like college is a money making business, so is pimping--whoops, i meant managing--strippers. stripclub managers/owners are almost like pimps these days in the way they overcharge and overexploit the dancers, and most clubs dont even provide adequate security coverage either from what ive read on here.

    just like the potential earnings resulting frm a college degree have gone down in recent yrs, ditto for stripclub earnings. yes there'll be some strippers that always find a way to make good money, or some veteran strippers whose earnings get BETTER over time as opposed to worse, but the same could be said for various college students who use college to persue lucrative fields like medicine, engineering, etc. but just like not everyone can hack it in med school, not every person can hack it as a stripper either. alotta strippers go into it thinking its "easy money" then quit after only a short time becuz they realize theyre not as cut out for making big money as they thought they were...or alternatively, becuz they end up actually getting a strait job with the college degree they persued before and/or during their stripping yrs, and the strait job pays just as much or more with less bullshit factors.

    now u could say that the amount invested in a stripping career -- for licenses, stripper gear, pole dancing classes, etc -- is a LOT less than the average student loan debt. yes that is true. however, theres still potential to waste time and money in a stripclub. even a few yrs ago when the industry and the general economy was better, i would see it with some strippers when i bartended at a club. girls sitting around and/or wasting time, making no moeny. or even girls that TRIED real hard but just couldnt hustle and/or attract customers for shit. they would leave in the negative or else they'd make money but not much more than theyd net at some retail job...but atleast with the retail job theyd get earlier workshifts (usually), more security, unemployment insurance, etc...possibly even benifits like workmans comp or (if lucky) healthcare. and this was COMMON for them. or there were girls who had 2nd jobs and admitted times when they made less stripping than if theyd picked up an xtra shift at their other job. in the time theyre "investing" in the stripclub, they could be persuing that better job or atleast training/schooling for a better job that they might be alot better suited for. and then theres those strippers who may or may not make decent money stripping, who HATE stripping and only do it for the paycheck...stripping's not for them either, atleast not past the short term. if they hate stripping, then theyre more likely to burn out. if they dont have a backup plan like another job or a higher education, then when they DO (not if, but do) burn out theyll be left with nothing.

    the problem is, both colleges AND stripclubs need to become more selective again. just like theres some girls who shouldnt become strippers, theres some high school students who just arent cut out for college. if schools and stripclubs become more selective, then it cuts out alotta the riff raff that get accepted (into either college or a dancer job) just for their money. currently i heard that some clubs are starting to be a lil more selective again becuz the recession has a huge number of girls getting laid off and wanting to persue stripping as a replacement. im starting to wonder if mebbe the sky-high tuition costs, coupled with decreased household incomes, state budget cuts decreasing fin aid grants, and lenders decreasing the number of people theyll lend money to, will have a similar effect: soon more people wont be able to attend college due to money issues, and the only ones that that will be able to "afford" it will be the ultimate elite: the wealthy and/or the top notch applicants that get full scholarships. it could take a long time for this to happen, and it prolly wont happen nearly as simply as the way i described it, but hey its possible. i guess im relating college enrollment to a population of bacteria: population grows, peaks, then the overcrowding for resources results in the population plummeting/dying out except for the "elite" few bacteria armed with mutations that give them an advantage over the bulk majority of the population. in the case of stripclubs, the "advtanged/mutated bacteria" would be teh top strippers that are the prettiest & best hustlers; in the case of college, the "advantaged/mutated bacteria" would be the top applicants with the highest grades, merits, school involvement, and smarts.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    I've been wondering the same thing, but it still makes me happy and I feel like I am learning stuff so I don't mind doing it. I dropped out of school as soon as it was possible for me to drop out, so I kind of miss going to school. Just gotta save up lots to pay it off.
    Whats 6 inches long, 2 inches wide, and drives women wild?...... Money

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by shift_6x View Post
    There are not plenty of 4 year schools that are cheap. The average credit hour in state is over $270 here at a public university. So after fees and taxes we are talking over $1000 per three credit class! And unfortunately grants do not cover the full costs I know Ive talked to others who have graduated w their 4 yr degree. This area is extremely competitive and the pay is low for ur average job. Many people relocate to DC bc the pay is awful for ur avg job..Its sickening but this area is overrun with people..Thats why even if say I could snap my fingers and have my 4 yr business degree I would struggle to find a job. Everyone wants experience only and Id be overqualified for some entry level positions. So ther eis not guarantee say within the first yr of obtaining the degree that Id even be able to find a job w the degree. Plus I already have some past issues that will make employment difficult. Thats stacked up against me too. And yes being n my early 30s means Im on my way out in terms of the dancing business..ID prolly haev to move home to afford switching careers at this point. Starting out w anything new will mean I have to start out at the bottom all over again and the bottom doesnt pay.
    I guess this is true if you are taking classes part-time. I took the liberty of looking at the tuition and fees for a handful of the state colleges in VA and came up with tuitions ranging from 3300-4200 per semester for full course loads, so with additional fees and books I bet you could do it for around $4,000 per semester with a little searching. And this could all be covered with Pell grants, workstudy and Stafford loans. Hell, most all of this could be covered just with Stafford loans, but of course any grants and workstudy would serve to reduce the debt load.

    And whatever issues you have in the past will affect almost any straight job you look for, not just one requiring a Bachelor's Degree. And fwiw, "the bottom" with a business degree is much preferable to the bottom without it. And frankly, even if you financed $16-20k, the reality is that it is chump change compared to the income benefits of having a Bachelor's Degree, particularly in a business discipline.

    None of the issues/concerns that you raised are even remotely insurmountable, but I'm not here to try to talk you into something that you just don't want to do.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 06-24-2011 at 07:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Don't do what these people did: CNN: My degree isn't worth the debt!. They got degrees in low paying occupations like sociology and social work but took on $240,000 in debt!

    The problem isn't student debt per se. You can't say if a debt all by itself is unreasonable. $240,000 may be fine if you are a doctor. But it's totally out of whack if it's used to be a social worker. It's not necessary to take on that much debt to get that degree.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I guess this is true if you are taking classes part-time. I took the liberty of looking at the tuition and fees for a handful of the state colleges in VA and came up with tuitions ranging from 3300-4200 per semester for full course loads, so with additional fees and books I bet you could do it for around $4,000 per semester with a little searching. And this could all be covered with Pell grants, workstudy and Stafford loans. Hell, most all of this could be covered just with Stafford loans, but of course any grants and workstudy would serve to reduce the debt load.

    And whatever issues you have in the past will affect almost any straight job you look for, not just one requiring a Bachelor's Degree. And fwiw, "the bottom" with a business degree is much preferable to the bottom without it. And frankly, even if you financed $16-20k, the reality is that it is chump change compared to the income benefits of having a Bachelor's Degree, particularly in a business discipline.

    None of the issues/concerns that you raised are even remotely insurmountable, but I'm not here to try to talk you into something that you just don't want to do.
    Rick I do appreciate all ur input. U r not talking me into something I do not want to do but I will not be in a future position where Id be able to attend school for a bachelor's full time. That would be the only way that I would finish school in 2-3 years. I cant handle dancing/another job plus fulltime school..my schoolwork would suffer and Id barely pass over doing it. I know some can but Im n my early 30s and unfortunately my bills wont go away I must work. Now if I was 22 or 23 it would be more feasible to go to school fulltime still but that isnt an option now. ANd yes my past issues may be an issue w any future job thats what Im worried about too. I dont want to waste time money and energy if past mistakes are just going to disqualify me from a future "good run of the mill corporate job". And once again I dont know who to talk to regarding that. Im too scared to go to a friend of mine whos a lawyer bc even though it is supposed to be confidential I really dont trust people w my business.....to be continued..

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    melonie, a lotta the arguments u used about college can be applied to stripping too. for example, college costs skyrocketing in recent decades...know what else has skyrocketed?...a stripper's HOUSE FEES and the money that is siphoned from stripper's earnings as well as costs for professional stripper gear and stripper heels, while the potential to make easy money at a stripclub has gone down in recent yrs. u say colleges are supersaturated with too many college students, but then again alotta stripclubs are supersaturated with too many dancers...which means the average dancer has to compete with more extras-givers, cut-throat bully dancers, fugly dancers who most likely scare away more business than help it (this point about unattractive dancers was overkilled in the "fat girls dancing" thred a few weeks ago), than ever before. u quote that these days even a "trained cat" could pass courses at most colleges, but then again unfortunately most clubs have lowered standards enough that even a "grommed cat" could prolly get onto the stage at some strip clubs lol. ok not literally but i think u know what i mean. why else would there be all these "unattractive dancers" and "fat girls dancing" bitch fest threds here on sw if that wasnt the case??! just like college is a money making business, so is pimping--whoops, i meant managing--strippers. stripclub managers/owners are almost like pimps these days in the way they overcharge and overexploit the dancers, and most clubs dont even provide adequate security coverage either from what ive read on here.

    just like the potential earnings resulting frm a college degree have gone down in recent yrs, ditto for stripclub earnings. yes there'll be some strippers that always find a way to make good money, or some veteran strippers whose earnings get BETTER over time as opposed to worse, but the same could be said for various college students who use college to persue lucrative fields like medicine, engineering, etc. but just like not everyone can hack it in med school, not every person can hack it as a stripper either. alotta strippers go into it thinking its "easy money" then quit after only a short time becuz they realize theyre not as cut out for making big money as they thought they were...or alternatively, becuz they end up actually getting a strait job with the college degree they persued before and/or during their stripping yrs, and the strait job pays just as much or more with less bullshit factors.

    now u could say that the amount invested in a stripping career -- for licenses, stripper gear, pole dancing classes, etc -- is a LOT less than the average student loan debt. yes that is true. however, theres still potential to waste time and money in a stripclub. even a few yrs ago when the industry and the general economy was better, i would see it with some strippers when i bartended at a club. girls sitting around and/or wasting time, making no moeny. or even girls that TRIED real hard but just couldnt hustle and/or attract customers for shit.

    Obviously the business model for the exotic dancing industry is changing along similar lines that the business model is changing for US 'professional' jobs. I would even expand on your analogy to equate upscale big city 'show club' dancers with Ivy League college graduates, and equate 'extras' club dancers with community college graduates. The 'market' for the former remains very lucrative and in demand, while the 'market' for the latter gets ever more 'down and dirty'.

    I have to take exception though with your concept that exotic dancing involves any significant amount of investment. With a college degree, the student must invest tens of thousands of dollars and years worth of full time effort before they are able to 'cash in' in their investment after graduation. Exotic dancers can 'cash in' the very next night after they get their dancer's license and buy a couple of stripper outfits. Also there is no 'lost opportunity cost' ( i.e. college students being forced to either work and earn money or study and not earn money ) for exotic dancers.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Ouch, I attend a community college and I am not an extras girl. What an analogy...AT this rate my associates n business sounds like a waste..Sorry I cant attend Princeton.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    One other way to get funding for college is through the military. If you join the National Guard, they will provide you with tuition assistance.

    http://www.nationalguard.com/benefits/money-for-college

    You can also get paid to learn a skill in the military. Of course you would have to be willing to join the military. Don't know if it's something you would want to do.

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    Default Re: Student Loan Debt Hell ... is a college degree still a 'good investment' ?

    Ouch, I attend a community college and I am not an extras girl
    I think you misinterpreted the analogy. Like 'clean' dancers competing with extras girls in a 'dirty' club, community college graduates will also wind up competing with a myriad of other job candidates with less than 'outstanding' credentials that are willing to A. work cheap, B. work under less than ideal job conditions, C. go the 'extra' mile to gain favor with the boss etc. The point was about supply and demand. Ivy League graduates are in limited supply and employers create a heavy demand because their credentials are perceived to be 'outstanding', whereas community college graduates are in nearly infinite supply with little employer demand. Or put another way, just like 'dirty' club customers choosing which dancers to buy private dances from, employer hiring decisions for one community college degreed job applicant out of 5-10 others will ultimately be based on some OTHER criteria besides their community college degree.

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