Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 57

Thread: The Welfare State Quiz

  1. #1
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default The Welfare State Quiz

    Take the following quiz about current Federal spending and see how you do.

    1. What proportion of our national income comes from wages ?

    a. 75%

    b. 60 %

    c. 51%

    d. 40%


    2. The average American gets how much per year in Government benefits ?

    a. $3,686

    b. $4763

    c. $1799

    d. $7427


    3. How much has Medicare spending increased since 2000 ?

    a. 80 %

    b. 75%

    c. 50 %

    d. 35%


    4. How many people currently get Medicaid ?

    a. 50 million

    b. 70 million

    c. 100 million

    d. 200 million


    5. How many get Food Stamps ?

    a. 20 million

    b. 40 million

    c. 60 million

    d. 80 million


    6. Under George W. Bush anti-poverty spending was what % of GDP ?

    a. 1 %

    b. 2 %

    c. 3 %

    d. 5 %


    7. Under Obama anti-poverty spending is what % of GDP ?

    a. 1 %

    b. 3 %

    c. 4 %

    d. 5 %


    8. What % of anti-poverty spending is collected by able-bodied people ?

    a. 0

    b. 10 %

    c. 30 %

    d. 50%



    I'll post the answers tomorrow.

  2. #2
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    ^^^ when you do post your answers, I suggest that you also post some other answers that are corrolary to your questions ....

    A. what percentage of our national 'income' is the result of transfer payments ( i.e. gov't checks )

    B. what level of income constitutes a 'break even' situation re income taxes paid versus dollar value of gov't benefits received ?

    C. what percentage of Americans receive more in gov't benefits than they pay in income taxes ?

  3. #3
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Duh Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Take the following quiz about current Federal spending and see how you do.

    1. What proportion of our national income comes from wages ?

    a. 75%

    b. 60 %

    c. 51%

    d. 40%


    2. The average American gets how much per year in Government benefits ?

    a. $3,686

    b. $4763

    c. $1799

    d. $7427


    3. How much has Medicare spending increased since 2000 ?

    a. 80 %

    b. 75%

    c. 50 %

    d. 35%


    4. How many people currently get Medicaid ?

    a. 50 million

    b. 70 million

    c. 100 million

    d. 200 million


    5. How many get Food Stamps ?

    a. 20 million

    b. 40 million

    c. 60 million

    d. 80 million


    6. Under George W. Bush anti-poverty spending was what % of GDP ?

    a. 1 %

    b. 2 %

    c. 3 %

    d. 5 %


    7. Under Obama anti-poverty spending is what % of GDP ?

    a. 1 %

    b. 3 %

    c. 4 %

    d. 5 %


    8. What % of anti-poverty spending is collected by able-bodied people ?

    a. 0

    b. 10 %

    c. 30 %

    d. 50%



    I'll post the answers tomorrow.
    Answers :

    1. c- 51% . It's actually dropped to 50.5% as of February. A historic low. The proportion of national income coming from a government check has exploded from 12 % as late as 2000 to 18.3% today.

    2. d - $7,427. In 1990 it was $3,686. In 2000 it was $4,763.

    3. a - 80 %

    4. a - 50 million

    5. b- 40 million

    6. c - 3%. This did NOT include NCLB or the Medicare prescription drug benefit.

    7. c- 4 %. Since 2000 spending on these programs has grown 89% and is now over $600 billion. We spend $1.2 trillion on Social Security and Medicare.

    8. d- 50 % of all anti poverty program recipients are able bodied i.e. NOT blind or deaf; NOT disabled.

    The point of this little exercise is to demonstrate that we must both reform entitlements and control anti- poverty spending, which is what the Ryan plan does. The critique advanced against his plan by Obama et. al. is that it reforms entitlements and controls anti-poverty spending.

  4. #4
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ when you do post your answers, I suggest that you also post some other answers that are corrolary to your questions ....

    A. what percentage of our national 'income' is the result of transfer payments ( i.e. gov't checks )

    B. what level of income constitutes a 'break even' situation re income taxes paid versus dollar value of gov't benefits received ?

    C. what percentage of Americans receive more in gov't benefits than they pay in income taxes ?
    I posted the answer to "A". It's 18.3%. The answer to "C" is roughly 50%, I think. I don't have the answer to "B" so please feel free to post it.

  5. #5
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    OK ... while this varies a lot based on individual tax situations, the point at which a typical American taxpayer actually pays in $7427 in federal income taxes to equal the average $7247 in gov't benefits received is in the ~$60,000 per year ballpark. This roughly corresponds to ~40% of all American tax filers. Thus ~60% of all American tax filers are receiving more back from the gov't than they are paying in.

  6. #6
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    OK ... while this varies a lot based on individual tax situations, the point at which a typical American taxpayer actually pays in $7427 in federal income taxes to equal the average $7247 in gov't benefits received is in the ~$60,000 per year ballpark. This roughly corresponds to ~40% of all American tax filers. Thus ~60% of all American tax filers are receiving more back from the gov't than they are paying in.
    Wait a minute. Are you sure ? The $7247 is the AVERAGE amount of money that Americans get from the government. Some get more. Some get less. Some get nothing. Not every American gets that or anything close. You are saying that 60% of all Americans are net "takers" and only 40% are net "givers" or "payers". Are you sure about those numbers ? We have 50 million enrolled in Medicaid and 40 million get Food Stamps BUT there are plenty of people who get the former but not the latter and vice versa. We are talking about tax filers, right ?

  7. #7
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    ^^^ yes, tax filers. And one corroborating fact is that 47% of tax filers actually pay zero net income taxes or receive more dollars back in the form of refundable tax credits than they paid in income tax in the first place ( a.k.a. a gov't handout via the IRS ) even if they don't 'consume' any gov't services !!!

    (snip)"THE 47% CONTROVERSY. About Half of Americans aren’t paying federal income taxes. Can that be that right? First of all let me clarify that we are only talking about “Income” tax. But it is true!

    A provocative statistic. Last July, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center (a joint venture of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution) estimated that 47% of Americans would not owe a penny to the IRS for tax year 2009. The White House has projected the federal deficit at $1.6 trillion for 2010 – that’s about 10.6% of our GDP, a percentage unseen since the 1940s. Is it fair to the nation that so many Americans are legally avoiding federal income taxes? How does this happen?
    How it happens

    A major reason? Refundable tax credits. The Making Work Pay credit and other tax cuts accompanying the federal stimulus gave millions more of us a refund this time around. If these credits hadn’t appeared, the TPC says 38% of us still wouldn’t have owed federal income tax for 2009, thanks to assorted variables – astute tax planning, low taxable income, and other factors.
    People who assume the rich are dodging taxes are misinformed.

    1. The TPC found that only about 1.5% of those with taxable incomes of $1 million or more owed no federal income tax for 2009.
    2. For those with taxable incomes from $500,000-$1,000,000, the estimate rises to just 2%.
    3. If you made between $75,000-100,000 in taxable income in 2009, you may have been in the lucky 9.2% who the TPC says didn’t owe anything to the IRS.
    4. In contrast, it figured that 61.8% of taxpayers who earned $20,000-30,000 last year and 47.5% of those with taxable incomes from $30,000-40,000 had no federal tax liability.

    For another perspective and more information also see: Guess Who really Pays the Taxes

    1. The wealthiest 1% of the people pay 37% of the taxes
    2. The top 10% pay 68% of the tax bill
    3. The bottom 50% pay only 3% of the tax bill

    (snip) from

    For clarification, according to the NY Times at the top 1% have annual incomes above $348k per year, the top 10% have incomes above $100k a year, and the bottom 50% have incomes less than $33k per year.

    So yes, on the average, 60% of Americans ( who on the average are earning less than $60k per year ) are net 'takers' in the sense that they receive more direct gov't dollars or indirect dollar value of gov't services than they pay in income taxes. And yes this percentage / average income level recently took a 'bump' thanks to the Making Work Pay tax credit, thanks to SCHIP, thanks to Cash for Clunkers, thanks to the First Time Homebuyer Credit, thanks to hybrid vehicle tax credits, etc. Other than SCHIP and eligibility for other gov't services up to the 4 * official 'poverty' level, all of these programs credit equal dollars regardless of widely varying income levels of the recipients.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-03-2011 at 02:30 PM.

  8. #8
    God/dess Zofia's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Durham, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,417
    Thanks
    2,964
    Thanked 2,370 Times in 934 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ yes, tax filers. And one corroborating fact is that 47% of tax filers actually pay zero net income taxes or receive more dollars back in the form of refundable tax credits than they paid in income tax in the first place ( a.k.a. a gov't handout via the IRS ) even if they don't 'consume' any gov't services !!!
    This is the one reason I believe that we need tax increases on the lower income brackets. Far too few people have skin in the game. But, I'm probably the only Republican who thinks so.

    Z

  9. #9
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ yes, tax filers. And one corroborating fact is that 47% of tax filers actually pay zero net income taxes or receive more dollars back in the form of refundable tax credits than they paid in income tax in the first place ( a.k.a. a gov't handout via the IRS ) even if they don't 'consume' any gov't services !!!

    (snip)"THE 47% CONTROVERSY. About Half of Americans aren’t paying federal income taxes. Can that be that right? First of all let me clarify that we are only talking about “Income” tax. But it is true!

    A provocative statistic. Last July, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center (a joint venture of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution) estimated that 47% of Americans would not owe a penny to the IRS for tax year 2009. The White House has projected the federal deficit at $1.6 trillion for 2010 – that’s about 10.6% of our GDP, a percentage unseen since the 1940s. Is it fair to the nation that so many Americans are legally avoiding federal income taxes? How does this happen?
    How it happens

    A major reason? Refundable tax credits. The Making Work Pay credit and other tax cuts accompanying the federal stimulus gave millions more of us a refund this time around. If these credits hadn’t appeared, the TPC says 38% of us still wouldn’t have owed federal income tax for 2009, thanks to assorted variables – astute tax planning, low taxable income, and other factors.
    People who assume the rich are dodging taxes are misinformed.

    1. The TPC found that only about 1.5% of those with taxable incomes of $1 million or more owed no federal income tax for 2009.
    2. For those with taxable incomes from $500,000-$1,000,000, the estimate rises to just 2%.
    3. If you made between $75,000-100,000 in taxable income in 2009, you may have been in the lucky 9.2% who the TPC says didn’t owe anything to the IRS.
    4. In contrast, it figured that 61.8% of taxpayers who earned $20,000-30,000 last year and 47.5% of those with taxable incomes from $30,000-40,000 had no federal tax liability.

    For another perspective and more information also see: Guess Who really Pays the Taxes

    1. The wealthiest 1% of the people pay 37% of the taxes
    2. The top 10% pay 68% of the tax bill
    3. The bottom 50% pay only 3% of the tax bill

    (snip) from http://consumerboomer.com/dont-pay-i...ho-pays-taxes/

    For clarification, according to the NY Times at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html the top 1% have annual incomes above $348k per year, the top 10% have incomes above $100k a year, and the bottom 50% have incomes less than $33k per year.

    So yes, on the average, 60% of Americans ( who on the average are earning less than $60k per year ) are net 'takers' in the sense that they receive more direct gov't dollars or indirect dollar value of gov't services than they pay in income taxes. And yes this percentage / average income level recently took a 'bump' thanks to the Making Work Pay tax credit, thanks to SCHIP, thanks to Cash for Clunkers, thanks to the First Time Homebuyer Credit, thanks to hybrid vehicle tax credits, etc. Other than SCHIP and eligibility for other gov't services up to the 4 * official 'poverty' level, all of these programs credit equal dollars regardless of widely varying income levels of the recipients.

    ~
    Wow ! Thanks for posting this. A few observations:

    1.The stats you posted do or do not include what was withheld from people's paychecks ?

    2. Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with things like the Earned Income Tax Credit. I agree with Milton Friedman who said that the BEST way to help poor people was to GIVE THEM MONEY ! He long advocated a negative income tax.

    3. While not necessarily owing any income taxes, the working poor and lower middle class folks do pay FICA and Social Security taxes. They pay state taxes including sales taxes and Federal gasoline taxes.

    4. I still question whether the super rich do in fact pay their fair share of taxes. Their effective rate on multi-million dollar incomes is too low afaic. It is why I support a flat tax and a REASONABLE ( 30-35% ) inheritance tax after a hefty ( $4-5 million or so ) exemption.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 06-02-2011 at 11:21 AM.

  10. #10
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    ...Far too few people have skin in the game.
    Amen, amen and amen.

    IMHO a flat tax would solve a lot of problems.

    I'm getting fucking tired of getting bent over the table after working so damned hard to earn some money. Nobody else is sitting in my office all hours of the night and weekends cranking out projects. Nobody else is sacrificing time with his family to do this, including my employees, who are done for the day by 6pm (no shot on them - they are a great bunch). Nobody else has had to take the risks that I've taken to make my business grow, including the opportunity cost of foregoing a large senior exec salary in order to grow a startup. Yet for each additional $1 I make, roughly 40% of it is taken by combined federal and state governments.

    I'm tired of hearing this populist bullshit about the "rich" vs. poor. Anyone who works hard and has some sense in their heads can do well in this country and I'm fed up with whiney bullshit about how the deck is stacked. If it was, I never would have had my business as I sure as fuck did not come from money

    End of rant.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 05-04-2011 at 04:32 PM.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to rickdugan For This Useful Post:


  12. #11
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    we need tax increases on the lower income brackets. Far too few people have skin in the game. But, I'm probably the only Republican who thinks so.
    Desparately trying to avoid politics overwhelming the economic point, it's still essential that the 'moral hazard' of this economic situation be pointed out. Tax filers = registered voters who know that they won't be personally affected by changes in gov't tax policy, but WILL be affected by changes in gov't spending policy, tend to support policies that are personally beneficial but arguably disastrous from a long term 'free market' economic point of view. And this is equally true of the 'poor' ... who pay next to no income taxes but receive sizeable gov't benefits, as well as the 'rich' ... who pay next to no income taxes compared to cap gains taxes but receive sizeable indirect gov't benefits via newly printed money boosting US stock market share prices.

    As RickDugan alludes to above, after doing the actual math, and evaluating all of the (semi) legal tax reduction opportunities, it is the 'middle class' who actually work for a living, with taxable salary incomes in the $75k-$300k a year neighborhood, who wind up paying the highest 'effective' tax rates i.e. highest percentage of their total incomes going to taxes. This means business people, working professionals, full time dancers etc.


    I still question whether the super rich do in fact pay their fair share of taxes. Their effective rate on multi-million dollar incomes is too low afaic. It is why a support a flat tax and a REASONABLE ( 30-35% ) inheritance tax after a hefty ( $4-5 million or so ) exemption.
    While I'm certainly not rich, I'm actually 'lucky' at this point because, since my 'retirement', almost all of my current income is now derived from capital gains, from qualified dividend earnings etc. stemming from my investments ... which so far are taxed at the 15% cap gains rate ( except muni bond interest which isn't taxed at all ). This 'two tier' US tax system also creates a 'moral hazard' situation where the 'rich' are concerned, since proposed increases in income tax rates won't affect cap gains tax rates even if the person has a $1 million+ annual income. And even if the proposed cap gains tax rate increases ARE put into effect, having to pay 20% in cap gains taxes beats the hell out of having to pay 40% in income taxes !!!

    And when you start talking about the 'super-rich', a whole new level of legal tax avoidance schemes become possible. One very popular investment today is a partnership in ethanol refineries / solar farms / wind farms which provide a 'production tax credit' back to the investor based on the amount of ethanol / electricity produced. This production tax credit can then be used to directly offset other taxes due. So for the price of a $1 million partnership share, a 'super-rich' investor can potentially receive $50-100k per year worth of 'production tax credits' which in turn can be used to effectively lower the 15% capital gains taxes due on the 'super-rich' person's conventional investments !! And of course there are still tax free muni bonds available which are totally free from federal, state and local taxes. Some of these pay 5%+ interest rates. The kicker of course is that the minimum price tag is typically $50k to $100k per muni bond.


    1.The stats you posted do or do not include what was withheld from people's paychecks ?
    Under the earlier point, a large number of Americans receive tax refunds which exceed the total number of income tax dollars withheld from all of their paychecks througout the year. But as the article's author pointed out, it does NOT include 'dedicated' social security and medicare taxes also withheld from those paychecks. The rationale of course is that payments into social security and medicare are solely used to pay the costs of those benefits when the taxpayer becomes eligible to receive benefits ( which isn't actually the case, but best left for a different discussion ).

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-04-2011 at 10:02 AM.

  13. #12
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    OK ... while this varies a lot based on individual tax situations, the point at which a typical American taxpayer actually pays in $7427 in federal income taxes to equal the average $7247 in gov't benefits received is in the ~$60,000 per year ballpark. This roughly corresponds to ~40% of all American tax filers. Thus ~60% of all American tax filers are receiving more back from the gov't than they are paying in.
    If this $7,247 in government benefits includes Social Security and Medicare, then payroll taxes should be included in your calculations. Counting payroll taxes, the income level where Americans pay $7,427 in taxes is much lower, especially if you include employer contributions.

  14. #13
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ yes, tax filers. And one corroborating fact is that 47% of tax filers actually pay zero net income taxes or receive more dollars back in the form of refundable tax credits than they paid in income tax in the first place ( a.k.a. a gov't handout via the IRS ) even if they don't 'consume' any gov't services !!!
    Almost every single working American pays payroll taxes, which should be included if we are including Medicare and Social Security as government benefits.

  15. #14
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    we were discussing income taxes only ... and the 'break-even' $7,247 income tax figure quoted was exclusive of SSI and medicare 'payroll' taxes collected. This should be obvious since on a $60k income $7,247 represents an actual income tax rate of about 12%. Also as of this year SSI and medicare tax revenues are 100% dedicated to paying SSI and medicare benefits, which are NOT included in the $7,247 in equivalent cash value of gov't benefits under discussion.

  16. #15
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    This is the one reason I believe that we need tax increases on the lower income brackets. Far too few people have skin in the game. But, I'm probably the only Republican who thinks so.

    Z
    Everyone needs to help out but only in proportion to their 'ability' to pay.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  17. #16
    God/dess Zofia's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Durham, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,417
    Thanks
    2,964
    Thanked 2,370 Times in 934 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    Everyone needs to help out but only in proportion to their 'ability' to pay.
    If you're above the poverty line, you've got an ability to pay.

    XOXO
    Z

  18. #17
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    And if you're above the millionaire line, you've got an ability to pay a lot more.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  19. #18
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    And if you're above the millionaire line, you've got an ability to pay a lot more.
    And just HOW are you going to get them to pay " a lot more " ? The very people you want to see dig a little deeper are the very folks with the ability to pack up and move out. Which they have done; are doing or at least are planning to do.

    Did you check out the latest Marist poll ? Did you see how many New Yorkers are planning to leave within the next five months ?

  20. #19
    Senior Member Butrcup79's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2011
    Location
    Lafayette, LA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 49 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Why are people so gungho about taxing the rich? The gov should enforce stricter regulations regarding welfare and food stamps. There are too many people in this country who live off our gov, regardless of how much cash they make.

    Many of the dancers I work with make well above the poverty level but they squander it. One girl actually said to me that when she reapplied for her food stamps and they asked her how she paid her bills she would tell them "My Mama help me out". And they don't question any further. She makes $600 p/month in food stamps, and I have no idea what they give her in welfare.

    My husbands ex-best friend collected unemployment. All they required was for him to fill out 2 applications a month. And they didn't even check whether or not he actually did, which he didn't once he figured out that they didn't check. So this loser sat in front of his computer playing video games, collecting unemployment for 6 months.

    My point is...the first step in fixing our country should not be taxing the 'rich', those who actually work and who are smart with their money. First, we should stop giving free handouts the those who are willingly robbing our country and the hard-working taxes who reside here!

  21. #20
    Senior Member Butrcup79's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2011
    Location
    Lafayette, LA
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 49 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Hard-working taxpayers...

  22. #21
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    If they want to pack up and move out of the USA, they have to find a decent place to go that doesn't tax them as much and still has a decent standard of living that they can accept and not have so incredible much poverty around them that they feel guilty with what they have -- not that many of them can feel guilty at all.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  23. #22
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    If they want to pack up and move out of the USA, they have to find a decent place to go that doesn't tax them as much and still has a decent standard of living that they can accept and not have so incredible much poverty around them that they feel guilty with what they have -- not that many of them can feel guilty at all.
    There are plenty of places that respect rich folks and will make them VERY welcome and comfortable.

    As for "guilt" why should they feel any ? Not if they earned their money legally.

    Btw, these are the very folks who enable most of the charities in this country and abroad. Where would the average hospital be without rich people ? Or colleges ? Or hundreds of worthwhile organizations like the Red Cross and Salvation Army ?

    Btw, why are YOU so obviously angry about and resentful towards people who have been more materially successful than you have ? Your posts are saturated with class envy.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 06-03-2011 at 07:47 AM.

  24. #23
    God/dess
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,964
    Thanks
    6,155
    Thanked 10,183 Times in 4,602 Posts

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    There are plenty of places that respect rich folks and will make them VERY welcome and comfortable.
    Most high-earning rich people in the United States work in the United States. Many of them are doctors, lawyers, business executives, athletes and entertainers. Where else are they going to go where they will earn anywhere near as much money as they do here? On average, doctors and lawyers in the US make far more than doctors and lawyers in other countries. Which country can Kobe Bryant or Lebron James make as much money playing basketball as they make here?

  25. #24
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    You know, those folks who think that it is ok to tax them 'till they are dry always seem to lose sight of one very important notion, which is that, at a certain point, this strategy is self-defeating.

    The more that a government confiscates from someone for having the audacity to be smart and work hard, the less motivated that person is to earn those additional dollars. At a certain point, the cumulative effect of this disincentive means that increased tax rates do NOT add to gross tax receipts.

    Below is a link to a very good article that lays this out quite nicely:
    http://blogs.marketwatch.com/fundmas...-more-revenue/

    We have also seen this play out in economies all over the world. The more that the state takes from the people, the less productive those people are and the more that standards of living decline. It amazes me how obtuse some of our policiticians are to the lessons readily provided by the economic meltdowns of so many welfare states all over the globe.

    And besides, even if you taxed the hell out of all of the "rich" people in the U.S., guess what? It will come nowhere near to paying for the expenses that are looming in the next few years. Next stop? The so-called "middle class."

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to rickdugan For This Useful Post:


  27. #25
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: The Welfare State Quiz

    even if you taxed the hell out of all of the "rich" people in the U.S., guess what? It will come nowhere near to paying for the expenses that are looming in the next few years. Next stop? The so-called "middle class."
    Indeed ... from

    (snip)"I've often said that I wish there were some humane way to get rid of the rich. If you asked why, I'd answer that getting rid of the rich would save us from distraction by leftist hustlers promoting the politics of envy. Not having the rich to fret over might enable us to better focus our energies on what's in the best interest of the 99.99 percent of the rest of us. Let's look at some facts about the rich laid out by Bill Whittle citing statistics on his RealClearPolitics video "Eat the Rich."

    This year, Congress will spend $3.7 trillion dollars. That turns out to be about $10 billion per day. Can we prey upon the rich to cough up the money? According to IRS statistics, roughly 2 percent of U.S. households have an income of $250,000 and above. By the way, $250,000 per year hardly qualifies one as being rich. It's not even yacht and Learjet money. All told, households earning $250,000 and above account for 25 percent, or $1.97 trillion, of the nearly $8 trillion of total household income. If Congress imposed a 100 percent tax, taking all earnings above $250,000 per year, it would yield the princely sum of $1.4 trillion. That would keep the government running for 141 days, but there's a problem because there are 224 more days left in the year.

    How about corporate profits to fill the gap? Fortune 500 companies earn nearly $400 billion in profits. Since leftists think profits are little less than theft and greed, Congress might confiscate these ill-gotten gains so that they can be returned to their rightful owners. Taking corporate profits would keep the government running for another 40 days, but that along with confiscating all income above $250,000 would only get us to the end of June. Congress must search elsewhere.

    According to Forbes 400, America has 400 billionaires with a combined net worth of $1.3 trillion. Congress could confiscate their stocks and bonds, and force them to sell their businesses, yachts, airplanes, mansions and jewelry. The problem is that after fleecing the rich of their income and net worth, and the Fortune 500 corporations of their profits, it would only get us to mid-August. The fact of the matter is there are not enough rich people to come anywhere close to satisfying Congress' voracious spending appetite. They're going to have to go after the non-rich.

    But let's stick with the rich and ask a few questions. Politicians, news media people and leftists in general entertain what economists call a zero elasticity view of the world. That's just fancy economic jargon for a view that government can impose a tax and people will behave after the tax just as they behaved before the tax, and the only change is more government revenue. One example of that vision, at the state and local levels of government, is the disappointing results of confiscatory tobacco taxes. Confiscatory tobacco taxes have often led to less state and local revenue because those taxes encouraged smuggling.

    Similarly, when government taxes profits, corporations report fewer profits and greater costs. When individuals face higher income taxes, they report less income, buy tax shelters and hide their money. It's not just rich people who try to avoid taxes, but all of us -- liberals, conservatives and libertarians.

    What's the evidence? Federal tax collections have been between 15 and 20 percent of the nation's Gross Domestic Product every year since 1960. However, between 1960 and today, the top marginal tax rate has varied between 91 percent and 35 percent. That means whether taxes are high or low, people make adjustments in their economic behavior so as to keep the government tax take at 15 to 20 percent of the GDP. Differences in tax rates have a far greater impact on economic growth than federal revenues.

    So far as Congress' ability to prey on the rich, we must keep in mind that rich people didn't become rich by being stupid."(snip)


    ... and from

    (snip)"When you break it down by race and ethnicity, it is all too painfully clear what is happening. Both whites and blacks are leaving California, the poster state for the liberal, welfare-state and nanny-state philosophy.

    Whites are also fleeing the big northeastern liberal, welfare states like Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, as well as the same kinds of states in the midwest, such as Michigan, Ohio and Illinois.

    Although California has long been a prime destination of Asian immigrants and the homes of their descendants, the 2010 census shows a striking increase in the Asian American population of Nevada, more so than any other state. Nevada is adjacent to California but has no income tax nor the hostile climate for business that California maintains.

    The movement of the black population – especially educated young blacks – is the most striking of all.

    In the past, the massive movements of millions of blacks out of the South in the early 20th century was one of the epic migrations of a people – comparable in size with the millions of the Irish who fled the famine in Ireland in the 1840s or the millions of Jews who fled persecution in Eastern Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

    In more recent decades, blacks have been moving back to the South, however. While the overall black population of the northeastern and midwestern states has not declined in the past ten years, except in Michigan and Illinois, the net increase of the black population nationwide has increasingly been in the South. About half of the national growth of the black population took place in the South in the 1970s, two-thirds in the 1990s and three-quarters in the past 10 years.

    While the mass migrations of blacks out of the South in the early 20th century was to places where there were already established black communities, such as New York, Chicago and Philadelphia, much of the current movement of blacks is away from existing concentrations of black populations.

    Blacks are moving to suburbs, and even to cities like Minneapolis. Overall, the racial residential segregation patterns are declining in the great majority of the largest major metropolitan areas.

    Among blacks who moved, the proportions who were in their prime – from 20 to 40 years of age – were greater than in the black population at large, and college degrees were more common among them than in the black population at large. In short, with blacks, as with other racial or ethnic groups, those with better prospects are leaving the states that are repelling their most productive citizens in general with liberal policies."(snip)


    What should be the all too obvious point from both of these blurbs is that when gov'ts enact policies which economically 'penalize' the most productive citizens, those productive citizens will alter their economic behavior as well as 'vote with their feet' regardless of race, creed or color ! This has been happening in earnest over the past decade in regard to population movements away from high tax rate states with liberal social welfare programs and out-of-control gov't spending, and toward low/no tax rate states.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-03-2011 at 06:00 AM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Age requirements that differ state to state?
    By vivylicious in forum Club Chat
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-06-2010, 05:42 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-29-2008, 07:59 PM
  3. stripper age laws from state to state??
    By Windy in forum Club Chat
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-01-2006, 05:03 AM
  4. The REAL Red State/Blue State Map
    By doc-catfish in forum Political Poo
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-11-2004, 02:13 AM
  5. State by state indication of business trend
    By Melonie in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-29-2003, 10:07 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •