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  1. #26
    God/dess anouk.oui's Avatar
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    Default Re: career stripper

    when i started dancing i thought i could do it forever. i loved it, the money, the parties etc.
    good thing i didnt invest too much time just dancing without going for further study as right now i can hardly bring myself to work and burnout ever month or so, and if i quit now i wont have desirable career prospects or much saved money. you need to be incredibly focused and disciplined to make this industry work out for you in the long term.
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  3. #27
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    Default Re: career stripper

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    That's what frightens me. I already found the industry for me but I think of all the teens and 20-somethings who have it pounded into their heads that they can't make it without college when 3/4 of them will only be poorer for their efforts. Their parents mean well but just as marriage today is waaay different than the 50s so is the power of a degree. I'd love to see more people looking outside the box and not automatically giving in to that propaganda. It simply is not true anymore. With prudent career and financial management you can make money and end up a millionaire even at only $30-40,000 a year. Fall into a hole of student loan debt and be out of work like thousands of college grads and more established workers and it can get ugly really fast.



    The schools are not going to tell you they have jacked the price up just because they can not because you get more value. They don't tell you when you're at the Bursar's paying the bill what % of their grads get work upon graduation and specifically how many in your major got employment in the last class. They don't want you thinking critically about it.
    I guess if you're going to Harvard out of state and aren't working at all. My education was only like $10,000 year for a high-quality public state education. Relatively prestigious university. Seems very doable for a girl stripping through college.

    I graduated with no debt and a substantial amount of money in savings + Roth. Got a job right out of the gate and am throwing it all into savings while I live off of the money I made stripping.

    Not saying that works for everyone. But again, the perspectives on this site should be balanced. Everything has good and bad aspects.

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    Default Re: career stripper

    Quote Originally Posted by anouk.oui View Post
    when i started dancing i thought i could do it forever. i loved it, the money, the parties etc.
    good thing i didnt invest too much time just dancing without going for further study as right now i can hardly bring myself to work and burnout ever month or so, and if i quit now i wont have desirable career prospects or much saved money. you need to be incredibly focused and disciplined to make this industry work out for you in the long term.
    Agreed. And it doesn't just take focus and discipline...I firmly believe that most women with those qualities still couldn't handle the work. The ladies on here who are/were career strippers amaze and fascinate me. Though I think many of the career dancers on here were dancing back in the 80s/90s when things were a biiiiiiit easier.

  5. #29
    God/dess anouk.oui's Avatar
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    Default Re: career stripper

    my uni course is incredibly expensive [fashion, private] not just the fees but the materials we use arent included in the course fee so every week i pay another 200 at least on materials, fabrics and art supplies. dancing in this city is less than desirable, i can make a living but i dont know how will i put any money away...
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  6. #30
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    Default Re: career stripper

    ^ I wouldn't pressure yourself to put a ton of money away since you're putting yourself through school (while you're burned out...yikes!). Though didn't you say you have a spending problem, school expenses aside?

  7. #31
    God/dess anouk.oui's Avatar
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    yes but considering im constantly at school or work and have substantial travel distance to make to both i dont much have time to hang around malls or walk around shops n things. i swear school is heaps good at curing that problem. the last thing i bought was a haircut and a pair of shoes two weeks ago and im pretty proud =] i spend a little more consciously now.

    i try to aim to put away some money for things like falling sick unexpected like i am now but yeah its hard when this city is soo hard to make money in [200 is an average saturday night] when im sooooo over it... i wish i put more money away when i first started oh well
    kudos for being a good listener charlie XD
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    Default Re: career stripper

    ^ I respect that you're continuing to work while burned out. I know exactly how hard that is when you're a full-time student as well.

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  10. #33
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    Default Re: career stripper

    thanks, i considered alternatives but none have the same time to money ratio.
    i was thinking of trying some domme work when i work up the balls to mix it up a lil
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  11. #34
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    Default Re: career stripper

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    I guess if you're going to Harvard out of state and aren't working at all. My education was only like $10,000 year for a high-quality public state education. Relatively prestigious university. Seems very doable for a girl stripping through college.

    I graduated with no debt and a substantial amount of money in savings + Roth. Got a job right out of the gate and am throwing it all into savings while I live off of the money I made stripping.

    Not saying that works for everyone. But again, the perspectives on this site should be balanced. Everything has good and bad aspects.
    Here's three sites with info on your potential average yearly expenses. If you go for a 2 year program you can get by on 10 grand but four year course of study is more. I'm not interested in pushing an agenda. Everyone has to decide for their self what works and part of that is looking at the cost/benefit. Note that the sites can't tell how much aid you can or can't get.
    http://www.collegeboard.com/student/...t-up/4494.html
    (snip)Nearly half (47 percent) of all full-time undergraduate college students attend a four-year college that has published charges of less than $9,000 per year for tuition and fees.
    At the other end of the spectrum are private four-year colleges that cost $35,000 or more yearly in tuition and fees. These higher-priced colleges sometimes have bigger endowments and more grant aid available — which may mean that you can get more financial help to attend that institution.(snip)


    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articl...lege-education
    (snip)According to the National Center for Education Statistics, the difference between tuition and the net cost less financial aid at public two-year colleges is not that significant, relatively speaking: roughly a few thousand dollars. But looking at private nonprofit four-year schools, that figure jumps dramatically, to almost $20,000. The average annual tuition (plus expenses) at a private nonprofit four-year college is about $35,000.(snip)

    This last one goes by state. http://allcollege.org/college-costs.htm
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

  12. #35
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    Default Re: career stripper

    Shrugs. No point in going back and forth about it. Like I said, I just want both perspectives to be heard.

  13. #36
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    Default Re: career stripper

    I'm really just trying to balance out the perspectives on this site. Lots of women come here for advice, so I want to make sure that both sides are represented here
    I respect this completely. For the record, I never said that a college degree doesn't have 'value'. What I did point out is that, in today's poor economy, it's necessary to measure that 'value' against the actual cost of obtaining the degree ... both in terms of tuition cost as well as in terms of 'lost opportunity cost'.


    At the end of the day, getting an education is never a bad thing. College broadens your understanding of the world, adds to your knowledge base, et cetera
    Also agreed ! However, from a 'horse blinders' pragmatic standpoint, it can be a bad investment of time and money.

    I think of all the teens and 20-somethings who have it pounded into their heads that they can't make it without college when 3/4 of them will only be poorer for their efforts. Their parents mean well but just as marriage today is waaay different than the 50s so is the power of a degree
    Undeniably, the like the old paradigm that houses will always go up in value, the old paradigm that obtaining a degree will always provide a comfortable middle class lifestyle has fallen victim to changing circumstances. And while there are a whole bunch of statistics out there regarding college graduates in general ( which reflects a lot of PAST history not necessarily today's situation or what's likely to happen 4 years down the road), there are actually very few stats involving very recent grads. But consider this one ...


    (snip)Beaten down by heavy debt and out of work, today's college grads are the new underclass. Many are struggling to stave off financial ruin.

    It's so tough that some eight out of 10 graduates this year are moving back home, according to a recent poll by a consulting firm. Some will continue their studies -- betting on an economic turnaround later -- and others are criss-crossing the country, desperate for work.

    Alex Hoffman, 23, who now lives in Atlanta, is looking for a well-paid tech job in New York City. It's been 12 months since he graduated from Vanderbilt University with a B.S. in human and organizational development. He spent the past year barely making ends meet with his own college services company.

    Forget about the unemployment dips. It just hasn't lifted enough grads. "There's a huge rate of unemployment among graduates," said Hoffman, who's packing up and moving to Park Slope, Brooklyn, to try his luck in the Big Apple. "Some of my friends who graduated two years ago still don't have jobs, or else they're working at the local guitar center."

    Paying the bills is the same worry for Joshua Peagler. He's a political science and history major, graduating this year from New York's Columbia College. Peagler, 22, who's from a low-income family outside Pittsburgh, and who attended Columbia on a full academic scholarship, wants a job in television production. Nothing doing.

    "At Columbia, they feed you this mentality that you will be successful -- things will work out -- so that plays into our mentality," Peagler said. "On the one hand we know the jobs are hard to come by, but on the other hand, we are trying to be as optimistic as possible because jobs do have to open."

    Not so far. "I am applying everywhere and am not getting any job offers back," said Peagler, who has interned at MTV and once was a runner at CBS Sports. "My entire life before this, I knew each step of the way. Now I am entering a great unknown, which is frustrating and unsettling."

    "It's brutal for the average undergraduate," said Rick Raymond, vice president of marketing at College Parents of America, an advocacy and support group for college parents. "Graduates are not the first to be hired when the jobs markets begins to improve," he added. "We're seeing shocking numbers of people with undergraduates degrees who can't get work."

    This year, some three million young people are expected to graduate from college. Facing a double-digit unemployment rate for young people, 85 percent of them will initially move back home with their parents, and that's up from 67 percent in 2006, according to a poll by researcher Twentysomething Inc. Peaker is headed back home soon to his family. (snip)

    from


    I would also point out that there IS something worse than a new college graduate who can't find a 'decent' job. That's last year's college graduate or someone who graduated two years ago who STILL has not been able to find a 'decent' job ! From the viewpoint of a prospective employer, every year that passes between graduation and actually working in their chosen field becomes more difficult to explain ... to the point where prospective employers may start to believe that the long term unemployed college graduate may actually have had some 'problems' which avoid explanation via the applicant submitting a 'blank' resume !

    Another basic math calculation. Per the NY Post story it's estimated that 3 million additional college graduates will enter the US labor force this year. By official gov't unemployment statistics ( see ), April's 'encouraging' numbers showed that 244,000 jobs ... TOTAL ... were added. On an annualized basis that's just shy of 3 million jobs ... TOTAL. Given that a whole lot of those new jobs involved selling retail, waiting on tables, working in factories, working in mines etc. , and also given that an estimated 2-3 million high school graduates will not attend college and thus also enter the US labor force at exactly the same time as the new college grads, the employment opportunities situation for most new college graduates is NOT promising. This is especially true when the same official gov't jobs report shows that job sectors involving non-specialized 'white collar' workers ( i.e. gov't funded jobs ) actually contracted !

    Ironically, in some ways, the high school graduates are actually now in a better position to be hired for 'A' job than the college graduates. This is because the owners of stores, restaurants, factories, mines etc. assume that if they hire a college graduate to perform an 'unskilled' job that said college graduate will quit as soon as a 'better' job more suited to their qualifications becomes available ... thus 'wasting' the employer's investments in employee training, learning curve based initial low productivity etc.

    Back to the numbers ... which appear to indicate that at the current 'encouraging' rate of job creation of ~3 million per year, enough jobs will be added to provide a job for about HALF of the ~5-6 million new high school + college graduates entering the work force this year for the first time. But this only holds true if employers don't choose to hire any of the ~13.7 million Americans who are currently unemployed instead of hiring new high school + college graduates ... which obviously won't be the case. So assuming that half of all new hiring needs will be filled by hiring currently unemployed Americans ( many of whom already hold college degrees as well as having previous work experience), that means that just one new job will become available for every FOUR new high school + college graduates this year. Again, not a very encouraging job opportunity scenario for new college graduates.

    And all of the above is contingent on the US economy continuing it's current pace of 'sluggish' recovery. But if $4 a gallon gasoline, tax increases on the job creating 'rich', another economic 'black swan' event ( Greece / Ireland gov't bond default, US debt ceiling frozen, another round of US mortgage defaults ) etc. tips the US economy back into recession ( see ), the prospects for new college graduates will become even worse than they already are !

    However, where dancers are concerned, there IS a 'silver lining' of sorts. If a dancer chooses to invest time and money to obtain a college degree, and if upon graduation she finds that no 'decent' jobs in her chosen field are available, she can always (re)turn to full time dancing to pay her living expenses and student loan payments ! Speaking facetiously, with a year or two of 'serious professional dancing' after graduating from college, she could pay off her student loans and essentially return to where she was ( economically ) before she decided to quit dancing and attend college in the first place !!! Obviously my facetious statement was biased by personal opinion. However, the numbers and calculations cited earlier are NOT a matter of opinion ... they are based on cold hard facts.

    Could a former dancer graduating with a college degree be one of the 'lucky' one in four who does get hired for a 'decent' job in her chosen field immediately after graduation ? - absolutely ! In fact, the very qualities which made her a successful dancer will also serve to increase her ability to 'sell herself' to a prospective employer. But the risk exists that she could also be one of the 'unlucky' three in four new college graduates who do NOT get hired ... with her previous 'adult industry' background potentially constituting an additional obstacle. So if nothing else, exotic dancers deciding to pursue a college degree constitutes a 'gamble' ... one that involves tens of thousands of dollars and several years out of one's life.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-15-2011 at 06:57 AM.

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    Default Re: career stripper

    I have been a dancer for 17 years now. I am very lucky to have the friends in my life that I do, they helped me explore more of my potential and ambitions. I am currently writing an e-book for dancers, newbies and veterans, with real life information. There are a few out there, but the information in them is lacking a bit in all the information needed to succeed and become smart about your money and future. Girls that start dancing at 18 are making more money in a day (even in this depressed economy!) than they would make in a 2 week pay period at a straight job. The traps are there and abundant, and oh so easy to walk right into! The traps being drugs, excessive alcohol use, prostitution, stupid boyfriends....the list goes on. Think about this, if you worked a "real" job, would you get drunk while you were working? Why not? Being under the influence of any substance will lead to poor decision making and allowing your self to get screwed over or talked into a risky (at best) situation. Girls, please be careful, it isn't a kind world we live right now, but there are some good people left.
    I taught my self computers and am currently building a webstore, I am a cougar of 41. I have another 2 1/2 years left, then I am out.
    My long -winded opinion about this topic is this, while school may be right for some people it is not the right choice for everyone. You really have to dig down deep into yourself and figure out what you want to do based on what you really love to do now. You do know how to start and run your own business, and the overhead is very low if it is internet based. I have 2 other websites that I am going to build next year. After 17 years I still love my job. I am getting a little burned out on the club that I am at now, but that is not industry related. I was part owner of a club in Toledo, Ohio (YUCH!) until the economy just nosedived so deep in the red that no one is going to survive that crash! So, my problem with the club I am in now is a more personal-business-managerial diisagreement, and a gross underutilized potential for the location and facilities. Oh, I digress....sorry.
    Anyway, I am tired and not making much sense. I could go on and on, but who would buy my book?! Have a great night and I hope this helps.

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    Default Re: career stripper

    glad to see that this topic got 'bumped' ...

    Here we are six months down the road - arguably this year's fresh college graduates had an even worse time finding jobs in their field than last year, this year's college tuition costs are even more expensive than last year, etc. This only increases the necessity of evaluating what one is likely to gain by 'investing' time and money toward a college, versus what one is likely to 'lose' ( i.e. lost opportunity cost of studying versus working as a dancer )

    In fact, it would appear that the only 'positive' development for college students is that gov't backed student loan interest rates have fallen a bit !!! Of course, that still isn't highly helpful if no lucrative job is available upon graduation to finance the student loan repayments.

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    Default Re: career stripper

    Aaaaand I just got an incredible job 8 months ago with a company who refuses to hire anyone without an undergrad degree.

  17. #40
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    I think any attempt to downplay the importance of education is not wise. I personally am grateful to my dad who kept at it to make sure I stayed in schoold and obtained the bachelor's degree. If I had not had that degree I would be in much worse spot today. I would like to add this; if I had gotten around to obtaining a master's degree, it would have improved my career big time.

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  19. #41
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    I think any attempt to downplay the importance of education is not wise
    Well, let me respond with a personal anecdote. Before I ever started dancing I worked several part time jobs in order to finance college tuition ... and I obtained a degree in Respiratory Therapy. With health care demand as high as it was ( and still is ) I got a job in my field immediately after graduation. However, that job paid $15 an hour ( = $11 an hour net of taxes ). That job also required that I work nights, weekends, holidays etc. That job also required that I expose myself to hospital patients with all sorts of diseases ( I caught TB from one of my patients and had to undergo 6 months worth of treatments ), as well as expose myself to potential needle sticks from HIV / Aids tainted blood samples. Granted today that pay rates have increased to $20 an hour ( = $14 an hour net of taxes ), but the working conditions and health risks more or less remain the same.

    On the flip side, from the first night I started dancing I was earning $50 an hour ( = $36 net of taxes ). So by dancing for 15 years I earned more money ( after taxes ) than I could have earned spending a lifetime as a Respiratory Therapist. If I had not spent the 3 years of college / working unskilled part time jobs and devoted those 3 years to 'serious professional dancing' instead, I would be even further ahead today money-wise !!!

    Was my college experience / Respiratory Therapy degree of 'value' ? Sure it was. It changed my way of thinking. It also provided the personal satisfaction of actually saving a few people's lives ! But, pragmatically speaking, it also 'cost' me a huge amount of money by preventing me from cashing in on three additional years worth of dancing earnings !!! This is the 'lost opportunity cost' which, if fully accounted for ( meaning that paying state college tuition for 3 years plus working unskilled part time jobs actually cost me $150,000+ versus 3 years alternatively spent full time dancing ), makes the majority of college programs 'losing propositions' in today's economy.

  20. #42
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    Default Re: career stripper

    ^ Well, it is needless to say that my anecdote will draw a conclusion exactly the opposite.

    But, I will say this. If money is your only objective then yes, you probably do not need education provided you are a natural born entrepreneur. The thing about the right kind of education is it provides you with means to make living in a dignified manner. For some people, dignity is more important than money.

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    Default Re: career stripper

    Stay in as long as you're making money and enjoying it. Get out when either stops.

    While in, always be looking for/working toward what's next. Education, jobm yoour own business, independent wealth from sex industry, a rich husbandm whatever

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jackal View Post

    ...If money is your only objective then yes, you probably do not need education provided you are a natural born entrepreneur. The thing about the right kind of education is it provides you with means to make living in a dignified manner. For some people, dignity is more important than money.
    "Dignified" by whose standards?

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    Default Re: career stripper

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna123 View Post
    "Dignified" by whose standards?
    Thank you! When I first read that, I was going to say something, but didn't think I could without flying off the handle and starting a cyber-bitchfest.
    Don't try to win over the haters. You are not the Jerk Whisperer.

    Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.






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    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Well, let me respond with a personal anecdote. Before I ever started dancing I worked several part time jobs in order to finance college tuition ... and I obtained a degree in Respiratory Therapy. With health care demand as high as it was ( and still is ) I got a job in my field immediately after graduation. However, that job paid $15 an hour ( = $11 an hour net of taxes ). That job also required that I work nights, weekends, holidays etc. That job also required that I expose myself to hospital patients with all sorts of diseases ( I caught TB from one of my patients and had to undergo 6 months worth of treatments ), as well as expose myself to potential needle sticks from HIV / Aids tainted blood samples. Granted today that pay rates have increased to $20 an hour ( = $14 an hour net of taxes ), but the working conditions and health risks more or less remain the same.

    On the flip side, from the first night I started dancing I was earning $50 an hour ( = $36 net of taxes ). So by dancing for 15 years I earned more money ( after taxes ) than I could have earned spending a lifetime as a Respiratory Therapist. If I had not spent the 3 years of college / working unskilled part time jobs and devoted those 3 years to 'serious professional dancing' instead, I would be even further ahead today money-wise !!!

    Was my college experience / Respiratory Therapy degree of 'value' ? Sure it was. It changed my way of thinking. It also provided the personal satisfaction of actually saving a few people's lives ! But, pragmatically speaking, it also 'cost' me a huge amount of money by preventing me from cashing in on three additional years worth of dancing earnings !!! This is the 'lost opportunity cost' which, if fully accounted for ( meaning that paying state college tuition for 3 years plus working unskilled part time jobs actually cost me $150,000+ versus 3 years alternatively spent full time dancing ), makes the majority of college programs 'losing propositions' in today's economy.
    Ugh...I can appreciate that this was your experience. But for all of the other ladies out there who read this shit...Think quality of life! Life is not all about money. This economy is currently STARVING for people in the medical field (especially nurses and the like). And this economy is NOT starving for more strippers. This ain't the 80's anymore.

    My advice: do what makes you happy and consider all options / consequences before taking drastic actions (dropping out of school, etc.) There is no one-size-fits-all right answer.

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  27. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luna123 View Post
    &quotignified" by whose standards?
    Well, we all make our own decision as to what is dignified and what is not. If you think the work you are doing is dignified then that should be good enough provided you are not doing anything illegal or unethical.

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    Default Re: career stripper

    If you think the work you are doing is dignified then that should be good enough provided you are not doing anything illegal or unethical
    even if that means feeding your son 'hamburger helper' and knowing that your son's talents will never be recognized because you can't afford to send him to a 'name' college based on the after-tax paychecks from a 'dignified' job ? Sorry, but from my own point of view, a job that is considered 'dignified' but which doesn't provide enough income to live a 'dignified' life outside of the workplace simply doesn't cut it.

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    Default Re: career stripper

    Dignity? Really? Ehhh.... *eye roll*

    I do not believe a college degree has anything to do with dignity. The fact of the matter is that in this day and age, a piece of paper, whether it is a degree, certificate, etc. is helpful in getting a job that pays well.

    I recall the saying that nowadays, a undergrad degree is equivalent to a high-school diploma. Meaning it's the minimum required to succeed.

    I'm not discounting the cases where people without formal diplomas/degrees manage to do well.

    BUT---

    I'm the sort that plays it safe. So if everyone has a degree, I'm making damn sure I have one too. It gives me peace of mind.

    I have stripped full time and I always worried what would happen if I became ill, if I was injured, if I couldn't strip anymore for reasons X, Y, or Z. At least a degree is something to fall back on so that I can survive. You know?

    I have gaps in my employment history. But I'll explain them away somehow. I worked hard for my BA and I'm getting a continuing studies certificate to look better in employers eyes (I hope).

    Career stripping is awesome. But since money now is so squicky, I am expanding my horizons.

    For anyone interested in getting more education check out all your options. Most major universities have quick, relatively affordable options that result in some sort of paper, they often offer internships and help with job placement.

    Just in case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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  31. #50
    The Jackal
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    Default Re: career stripper

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    even if that means feeding your son 'hamburger helper' and knowing that your son's talents will never be recognized because you can't afford to send him to a 'name' college based on the after-tax paychecks from a 'dignified' job ? Sorry, but from my own point of view, a job that is considered 'dignified' but which doesn't provide enough income to live a 'dignified' life outside of the workplace simply doesn't cut it.
    If a person needs to rob a bank to pay for his/her offspring's tuition then there is a serious problem. Sooner or later law enforcement will stress this point in a very forceful manner.

    As far as dignity is concerned, it has nothing to do with money or academic credentials. There are a lot of people who would rather not have certain materialistic things if it comes at a cost of compromising their principles. But then again there are a lot of people who would do anything for money. It is all up to you.

    If you can live with your head high as a stripper and you have not robbed or stolen anything from anyone then you are a dignified person in my book.

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