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Thread: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

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    Senior Member Dyllan's Avatar
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    Default Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Just checked in to work this afternoon and was informed that all girls will be "regular employees of the club within one year." I was further told that "the whole country needs to be in compliance within two years. Management is working on a commission structure." Has anyone else heard of this at your respective club?

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    NOOOoooo! What? I haven't heard of this!

    I wonder if you'll get benefits....



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    Senior Member Dyllan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    This is getting me worried. One, I'm sure that the "commission structure" will surely benefit the club more than the dancers and Two, I really don't want to have a W-2 issued to me stating that my employer is the "Peppermint Hippo."
    Last edited by Dyllan; 05-28-2011 at 05:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    We already do this! This is actually the first year we have done this(actual paychecks vs. being paid under the table).
    There is even one club that has (optional) benefits (at least that is what the club owner told me).

    It *is* slightly ironic because we are basically paying ourselves when you think about it...lol.

    ETA: I know that our house dancers are on an official 'payroll' system now, but I don't know how it works out for contract dancers...

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Where is a link to the legislation on this?
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    Senior Member Dyllan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Quote Originally Posted by xoAnnaBanana View Post
    Woah. Where are you located?
    Vegas


    Quote Originally Posted by papillonluvr View Post
    Where is a link to the legislation on this?
    I don't have one. This is brand spankin' new news to me from the management of my club.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    That is unusual. I know that someclubs work on a payroll system like that -there's one in my city like that. But I don't think I'd like that much. I'm gonna see if my boss has heard anything like that. Freaky.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyllan View Post
    all girls will be "regular employees of the club within one year." I was further told that "the whole country needs to be in compliance within two years. Management is working on a commission structure."
    My guess is that you are either working for a club that is part of a chain, & plans to force their entertainers from their clubs around the country to only be employees, or whomever said this doesn't have the full story. Most clubs are not going to opt to have the entertainers be employees... it can make firing them a lot more difficult, plus all the issues around un-employment. I suspect that if this were a new law the industry press would have had their hands on it right away, or Melonie would have posted something. Since neither of those have happened, I suspect you aren't getting the full story.
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    Veteran Member LexyNYC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    When you sign a contract at my club you have the option of being an employee or an independent contractor.

    Benefits of being an employee:
    $12-15/ hr (depending on "experience" and "skill")
    benefits (no idea how that works out, if they are taken out of your paycheck, if they're hella shitty, etc)
    worker's comp
    you get to keep all of your tips

    Disadvantages:
    you do not get to pick your own schedule. Hello, dayshift!
    you do not get to pick the # of days
    you are required to do "employee" stuff, like, clock in on time, clock out for breaks (so you only get a couple 10 minute breaks in the DR and the rest of your time is on the floor!)
    YOU ARE REQUIRED TO SELL 10 DANCES/SHIFT OR ELSE RISK BEING TERMINATED- this is the big one- if you are selling at least 10 dances/shift being an employee is NOT worth it at all. You do NOT get to keep ANY dance money (just tips) so if you are selling 10 dances you are giving all of that to the big man in return for basically minimum wage.

    sigh...
    Wow. What's the point of being a stripper then?? $15 an hour and tips? Sooo not worth the bullshit we go through in this job. If I auditioned at a club and they told me that deal, I would laugh in their face and go to a dif club.

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    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    I used to work at a club that issued 1099's. I worked there for 2 years. They started this in 2009. The clubs never use the club name as their official company name. Your paycheck will say something like xxo bar n grill or lmn entertainent inc.. It won't say anything like Joe's booby barn.
    If they plan on doing it with in 1 year in Vegas they will probably delay it for as long as possible. I would not be too frightened. Of course I quit dancing in Vegas a few weeks ago anyways. At least you won't lose money and no one will feel desperate enough to do more than they should. It might have a few positive effects.
    I'm sure there will be a lot of people using scare tactics like they did with the healthcare debates. So be prepared - but the world will not come to an end if strippers get a garunteed minimum base pay. This will not be the first time in the history of stripping that girls are paid a base pay. I knew a girl who said that is what they did in the 90's and she made great money. Who knows what the details will be?
    Obviously it's good to stay in reality and realize that it won't be a super high super great pay just for showing up on stage and taking off your top once an hour. The base pay will be just a base pay. You will still have to be a good sales person. You will still have to look good and have a good personality in order to make a higher amount of money than the base pay. There probably won't be any great inusrance benefits either. But I'm sure that a reasonable commission will be arranged where the dancers are garunteed to at least make something for going to work and doing their job. This means that the clubs will have to make a real effort to make money off the custys which means there will not be 300 girls and 100 custys.
    Last edited by loren; 05-29-2011 at 02:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    I'm in Europe and have always worked like that. I've seen different systems in different clubs (if a guy pays €80+ in cash we get half that under the table) but I love getting one big cheque at the end of the month, and not having to pay my own taxes. Its so easy to save money and I make more than enough in tips to live off.

    Plus I'm hoping to go on the dole next month. We get like 70% of our earnings here I think - I'm gonna be the richest bum ever

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Arguably this is the result of two major developments ( in the USA ) ...

    #1 - several recent class action lawsuits against 'national chain' corporate clubs have resulted in rulings that ... because of the set schedules and other 'rules' enforced by the corporate clubs ... dancers working in these clubs fall under the Dep't of Labor definition of an 'employee'. Prior to these 'national chain' lawsuits, every court case or DOL ruling made re individual clubs has also reached the same conclusion. However, up to now, these court cases and DOL rulings had only applied to the specific non-corporate club or corporate club branch named in the case. The latest cases involving 'national' corporate chain clubs have apparently broken the 'isolated instance' precedent.

    #2 - gov'ts are broke. At the federal level, the gov't needs to collect more income taxes and social security taxes - and employer payroll systems with employee tax withholding makes that automatic. Also, besides state and local income taxes, state unemployment and worker's comp funds are also broke - and mandated employee benefits laws force employers to cover the employees with unemployment and worker's comp benefits thus forcing the club to pay the premiums to the state funds. Both California and New York DOL's have already declared that all dancers in the state must be considered 'statutory employees', but hadn't come out with an organized enforcement schedule. Apparently, now that the states are in dire need of money, the states are getting serious about enforcement.









    Obviously, if federal and state agencies are taking a serious interest in the tax and benefits aspects of dancers / strip clubs via W2 reporting and tax withholding, they will also be forced to also take a serious look at other 'employer / employee' mandates ... from verifying the legal work status of 'employee' dancers ( probably full ID plus e-verify to avoid potential employer fines from INS ), to health and safety rules re club, stage, private dance / VIP areas ( which could eliminate nude pole dancing and 'closet' private dance areas ), to clubs providing mandated employee benefits for any ' full time' dancer working more than 24 hours per week in the same club ( which could force clubs to NOT allow any house dancer to work more than 24 hours per week in order for the club to avoid having to pay unemployment and comp insurance payments to the state funds).

    While these regulations wouldn't totally eliminate independent contractor dancers, it would require that said dancers have an officially registered business entity ( agency, private LLC ) to which the club could report payments via 1099. But this is a 'dicey' area given the widespread hue and cry about other US industries engaging subcontractors as a means of eliminating employees. As a result, club attorneys will probably establish corporate policy that no more than 10-20% of the club's dancers can be independent contractors versus 80-90% employees as a defense against future lawsuits. And the independent contractor dancers still engaged will probably be subject to time limits ( i.e. official one month contract for travelling dancers )and/or professional 'credentials' requirements ( i.e. feature contract ) as further defense against future lawsuits.

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    Last edited by Melonie; 05-29-2011 at 04:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    The IRS has been working on this for twenty years or more. Not just SCs but restaurants and all sorts of places that used independent contractors. The service does not like ICs because there is too much room to fudge your income on your taxes. The service long ago handed down regulations that described what we do as employment, not independent contracting. As far as the service is concerned, the only independent contractors are plumbers, electricians and carpenters who have a truck and tools. If they could find a way to describe them as temporary employees, they would, but they haven't found that way, yet.

    The healthcare legislation is also forcing more employers to make sure their classification of employees is accurate. No one wants to get a fine for mis-classifying someone as an IC when they are an employee.

    At the same time, the states various workers compensation agencies have tried to define dancers/waitresses/caddies and the like as employees. In a few states the courts have gone along with the administrative decision makers. Again, this is a long standing effort.

    In addition at the federal and state levels, there is increasing pressure for employers to hire only citizens and aliens with valid work status. The U.S. Supreme court just upheld a state law the imposed some pretty serious penalties on the companies for hiring illegals. It was the normally pro-business justices who voted to uphold the penalties. Read the handwriting on that wall.

    If your club is telling you that within a certain period of time they will convert to all employees, they are doing so because they recognize that they will not be able to withstand a challenge either in court or before some administrative agency to someone's IC status. Usually that means they have been treating people as employees for some purposes and IC's for wage withholding. Their accountants and compliance staff have finally convinced management that they need to make a change. Is this a bad or good development? It all depends. If you work at a club that treats you like an employee except when it's to their benefit to treat you like an IC, then change is probably a good thing. If you work at a club that really treats you like an IC, then it's probably not a good thing. However, if your club is really treating you like an IC, the IRS and state regulators will not be able to force the change. There are just so few clubs that really respect the IC rules.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    I'm in Virginia and one of the girls at work told me that a manager told her this, haven't heard anything yet but doesn't this mean that if they do they canot charge house fees, take money from dances or fine gilrs anymore?

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylea2 View Post
    My guess is that you are either working for a club that is part of a chain, & plans to force their entertainers from their clubs around the country to only be employees, or whomever said this doesn't have the full story. Most clubs are not going to opt to have the entertainers be employees... it can make firing them a lot more difficult, plus all the issues around un-employment. I suspect that if this were a new law the industry press would have had their hands on it right away, or Melonie would have posted something. Since neither of those have happened, I suspect you aren't getting the full story.

    This is a good point -u just relaxed me alittle bit. Was alil ineasy there for a moment. Whoo!

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    Senior Member Dyllan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    From what we're being told, this is not club or chain specific...the whole industry. I'll update if/when I have more details.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    There would be no reason to do more then the required dances which are already lowering a dancers take home if 15per as if she did only 1 lapdance every hr she should already take home more. Having to do ten on an 8 hr shift is like doing each ld for only 12 dollars as is. Truly they couldn't con dancers into vip rooms if they will make the same doing one dance which the club is already undercutting a dancer for. Simply put I would quit as after taxes on my 12 dollars per ld I would be required to do well that like having to do 10 10dollar lds & not having any reason in the world to even try to make more as that would only be working harder to sell your services for less. No for that just get a day job cuz 10 an hr after taxes is basically an assistant manger at the gap or mcds kind of job not worth the hard work of dealing with the pressures of dancing for a living at all. Entry level at many jobs pay more then that especially in cities like NY where cost of living is higher so that would be min wage working at bk money & not what I or any decent dancer works as a dancer for. So that would be a club without the topgirls who could go work gogo and ezly take home more or those that are smart enough to do the math & then all those that work as dancers to take home cash or not have paper trails saying they are strippers known to the world via tax form would be out of the bizz as well so what would be left would be pretty much be a very sad situation of desperate dancers working to hard for there money. The fall out of ideas from our government has hard the bizz enough, but this would kill it faster then anything else they could think of.
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    doesn't this mean that if they do they canot charge house fees, take money from dances or fine gilrs anymore?
    Legally speaking, an 'employer' generally cannot charge their employees 'fees' ... with a few exceptions like 'locker rent'. Also, there are severe restrictions in regard to 'fines'.

    However, on the flip side, as an 'employee' dancer the CLUB is the legal owner of the dancer's work product ( i.e. private dances ). Thus the 'employer' club is legally entitled to 100% of the revenues generated from private dance / VIP sales, and the dancer is legally obligated to perform same without additional pay. Undoubtedly in an effort to prevent top selling dancers from leaving for greener pastures, 'employee' clubs will institute sales commission structures where dancers are paid some percentage of their sales revenues ( probably in the 50% ballpark ).

    Also, the club has near total control over shift scheduling for 'employee' dancers. This could mean mandatory day shifts. This could also mean a 24 hour per week scheduling limit ( to avoid 'full time employee' status that would trigger additional benefit costs for the club ). At the very least it would mean the end of dancers showing up to work on unscheduled shifts and/or coming and going as the dancers please.

    DOL's will undoubtedly also start allowing other 'employee' precedents to infiltrate the 'employee' dancer work environment. Among them will be seniority privelege ( where dancers with the longest employment history are given preference in booking particular lucrative shifts ). Also among them will be increased difficulty for the club to fire less 'productive' dancers ( already the subject of a lawsuit by a 60 year old dancer !!! ).

    Another potentially 'dangerous' employee precedent is the concept of 'tip sharing'. In the restaurant / hotel / casino industry, it is already fairly well established that all of the tipped employees working on a particular shift are required to pool their cash tip earnings ... with the pool of money then being divided evenly at the end of the shift / week and paid out to the 'employees' in equal shares ( with income reported and taxes withheld ) regardless of the fact that particular employees may have actually earned 2-3 times as much tip money as other employees.

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    Veteran Member LexyNYC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Yeah if this happens, I'll start working a regular job.

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    Senior Member Dyllan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    So, it finally happened. Effective August 1, 2013 all dancers at Spearmint Rhino Las Vegas (actually I believe chain-wide) will be hourly employees of the club...W-2 and all. House keeps 25% of all dances. It's causing major waves in the club.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    ^ yeah, there was already a thread about spearment rhino doing it..a bunch of them. haven't heard anything about making ALL stripper employees though, my club says this every year, and nothing ever happens even though they've been sued a few times. * shrug* .
    no dancer is going to do ten lap dances a night for 15 bucks an hour..they just won't lol. they are going to have to come up with something a little better, because with the price of the lap dances, customers don't even tip really.. i wouldn't freak out. also, i bust my ass doing good lap dances, because i need more money and want to keep the customer entertained! if im not receiving the money, why would i even try? i'd just kind stand there, shake my ass for a song, and be done. customers wouldn't even come in anymore. OR, to get tips they can actually keep, girls will be doing even more extras to earn what they would have doing the actual dance.
    i know girls who have worked as employees and the clubs don't tell the govt everything they make, in fact some will let the dancer decide what to claim that they've made, like my club ( they have the employee "option"). other girls will pay off the staff to not count many of their dances. its all friggn cash...this industry has always been rather shady, slick, and money hungry..they will find a way to get around this im pretty sure IF the govt manages to make EVER single club do this..which i doubt, seriously.
    if they do, girls will poach customers from the clubs and give them private dances/ private parties. some girls do that anyways, good way to make regular clients. those rules stated above about the 12-15 bucks an hour just makes no sense to me..nobody would do it, they'd go under
    Last edited by simone87; 08-01-2013 at 09:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    i tried googling this, wording it differently and searching again.. and couldn't find a damn thing..any links yet? 25% aint bad, that's what my club does already.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    ^ yeah, there was already a thread about spearment rhino doing it..a bunch of them. haven't heard anything about making ALL stripper employees though, my club says this every year, and nothing ever happens even though they've been sued a few times. * shrug* .
    no dancer is going to do ten lap dances a night for 15 bucks an hour..they just won't lol. they are going to have to come up with something a little better, because with the price of the lap dances, customers don't even tip really.. i wouldn't freak out. also, i bust my ass doing good lap dances, because i need more money and want to keep the customer entertained! if im not receiving the money, why would i even try? i'd just kind stand there, shake my ass for a song, and be done. customers wouldn't even come in anymore. OR, to get tips they can actually keep, girls will be doing even more extras to earn what they would have doing the actual dance.
    i know girls who have worked as employees and the clubs don't tell the govt everything they make, in fact some will let the dancer decide what to claim that they've made, like my club ( they have the employee "option"). other girls will pay off the staff to not count many of their dances. its all friggn cash...this industry has always been rather shady, slick, and money hungry..they will find a way to get around this im pretty sure IF the govt manages to make EVER single club do this..which i doubt, seriously.
    if they do, girls will poach customers from the clubs and give them private dances/ private parties. some girls do that anyways, good way to make regular clients. those rules stated above about the 12-15 bucks an hour just makes no sense to me..nobody would do it, they'd go under
    we arent making $15/hr, we just get a lower cut of the CRs. im trying to stay optimistic that now that we are employees the problem girls will become more of a liability and get fired, as well as cutting down on hiring every out of towner that walks thru the door for one night only. a ton of girls have already fled to sapphire which I think is great for both clubs. sr doesn't have the space to accomodate the amount of girls and customers whereas sapphire is massive and usually keeps half of the club curtained off. hopefully this will send more of the crowd to sapphire and the girls that don't want to be employees can go there and still do equally well, and sr can turn into a closer knit club that has the same amount of quality girls and customers without all of the excess.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    haven't heard anything about making ALL stripper employees though, my club says this every year, and nothing ever happens even though they've been sued a few times. * shrug* .
    What's ( supposedly ) different this time is the potential of the IRS hitting clubowners with a $3000 per dancer per year ObamaCare tax penalty if they fail(ed) to provide dancers later ruled to actually be 'full time employees' with newly mandated health care benefits. This is likely to be accompanied by states hitting the same clubowners with bills for unpaid state unemployment / disability insurance premiums if they fail(ed) to provide dancers later ruled to actually be 'full time employees' with unemployment / disability insurance. Thus the amount of potential clubowner money at stake if a future lawsuit finds the club's dancers to actually be 'full time employees' is now far higher than the $2.95 per hour unpaid tipped minimum wage that had been the only major focus of previous dancer lawsuits. Also, federal and state gov't agencies now having a 'stake' in future employee dancer lawsuits will probably restrict or eliminate the clubowners' previous option of simply offering a ( reduced dollar amount ) settlement to dancers in exchange for 'dropping' the case before an actual court ruling / court order is issued.

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    Default Re: Dancers to be "Regular employees within one year"

    when are they going to do it? what if they give us the the option and we turn it down? wish i could find an article about this !! haven't heard a peep besides on stripper web. now im going to be stressed, wish they would just tell us now so we could be ready for it..

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