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Thread: Torturing Terror Suspects

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    Default Torturing Terror Suspects

    This is the topic I chose for my PHI 2604 class. I'm specifically talking about "Stress and Duress" techniques (not water boarding), although "Stress and Duress" methods have in large part been described as not constituting torture. This includes techniques like sleep deprivation, restriction of food/water, confinement to a small space, exposure to overbearing/loud/obnoxious/intimidating/repetitive sounds.
    In my essay I'm writing about these techniques, weather I think they are justifiable, ethical, and why.
    What do you guys think about it?

    I think they are justifiable because they provide valuable, time-sensitive and otherwise difficult or nearly impossible intelligence to acquire. They are effective and do not cause the physical/psychological effects that 'true' torture techniques (like water boarding) can sometimes cause.
    Last edited by lokikola; 06-07-2011 at 06:47 PM. Reason: bunch of type-os

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    My course is critical thinking and ethics.
    I'm gathering sources now for my essay. What I have read so far though does say that torture (water boarding) is ineffective because anyone would confess to anything or give false information because of the level of stress. Whereas other forms of 'torture' like being confined to a small space or deprived of sleep can be effective. I know this because I personally experienced these methods while I was in the military.
    Something I am using to support my argument that it is not as dangerous as other methods is the fact that the US Military uses it on their own personnel for training purposes. If they had severe negative effects on an armed forces member's physical or mental well-being they would then be unfit for military service, and that would be a waste of money, and the military never wastes money.

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    You're awesome! Thanks so much
    You're right it has to be focusing on the moral part. I have to include and make clear what type of torture (the word torture alone is too vague), on who it is justifiable to use on (terror suspects of course but should it be used on all combatants or just those who likely have more valuable info), what reasons justify the use of the method, and weather there are any limitations to the use of torture.

    So, can you review my paper in a couple days? Haha just kidding....... sort of.......... k thanks bye

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    "It's safer to be soldier than a women in many countries"- Annie Lennox

    Just some food for thought ladies. Carry on.

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Yes, quotes from pop stars are very relevant for philosophy research papers.
    LOL. Filthy rich pop star.

    I'll try to add something constructive. Try to avoid saying something like "the military never wastes money." when stating your case.
    Last edited by bucket; 06-07-2011 at 10:43 PM. Reason: edit

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by lokikola View Post
    I think they are justifiable because they provide valuable, time-sensitive and otherwise difficult or nearly impossible intelligence to acquire. They are effective and do not cause the physical/psychological effects that 'true' torture techniques (like water boarding) can sometimes cause.
    There is no guarantee that you will get the information you want through torture. I was just watching a show on World War 2. Before the war started, Polish scientists had broken Germany's secret code. After the Germans took over Poland, these scientists were captured and tortured by the Germans, but they never revealed this secret, which was one of the biggest secrets of the war.

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Thread makes me think of the movie Unthinkable - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914863/

    If it could be proven effective, then yes. Absolutely justifiable... although it's nothing that could ever be considered ethical.
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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Jesse Ventura: "You Give Me a Water Board, Dick Cheney and One Hour, and I'll Have Him Confess to the Sharon Tate Murders."

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by angelking View Post
    jesse ventura: "you give me a water board, dick cheney and one hour, and i'll have him confess to the sharon tate murders."
    lmfao

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Some people just use this terror shit to conceal their bigoted soul. No civilized human being will ever support torture. This is so outrageous to even suggest.

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    I'm not going to argue ethics. Being mostly from a country that has been fighting the war on terror it's entire existence, you're not dealing with human beings and therefore ethics don't come into play. Why should we play by the rules, when they have no rules themselves? That said, I agree that it can't be proven as effective and therefore poses more harm than good. Bad information is worse than no information. Personally I think outright killing them would be more fruitful.
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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by JayATee View Post
    I'm not going to argue ethics. Being mostly from a country that has been fighting the war on terror it's entire existence, you're not dealing with human beings and therefore ethics don't come into play. Why should we play by the rules, when they have no rules themselves? That said, I agree that it can't be proven as effective and therefore poses more harm than good. Bad information is worse than no information. Personally I think outright killing them would be more fruitful.
    Israel?

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    You definitely need to check out "The Body in Pain: The Making and Unmaking of the World" by Elaine Scarry for one your sources. I read it for a class in college and think everyone who's pro-torture should read it. There's really not a credible debate on the topic when we don't even have the guts to call it torture, instead using sanitized terminology like "enhanced interrogation techniques." Maybe people have the idea that real torture is only maiming the victim, but the psychological damage of any torture last forever.

    It just bothers me when some asshole in a suit on TV argues for torture. It's an animal like instinct to exact revenge and is completely counter productive.

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Krill_ View Post
    You definitely need to check out "The Body in Pain: The Making and Unmaking of the World" by Elaine Scarry for one your sources. I read it for a class in college and think everyone who's pro-torture should read it. There's really not a credible debate on the topic when we don't even have the guts to call it torture, instead using sanitized terminology like "enhanced interrogation techniques." Maybe people have the idea that real torture is only maiming the victim, but the psychological damage of any torture last forever.

    It just bothers me when some asshole in a suit on TV argues for torture. It's an animal like instinct to exact revenge and is completely counter productive.
    Exactly. When we stop being human, we have already lost the war.

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    I'm morally opposed to torture, however it sounds like a facinating paper. If it turns out that torture really does produce accurate, actionable intelligence, this would be important for future information gathering.


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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Jesus wept.

    Quote Originally Posted by brigham View Post
    israel?

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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Krill_ View Post
    You definitely need to check out "The Body in Pain: The Making and Unmaking of the World" by Elaine Scarry for one your sources. I read it for a class in college and think everyone who's pro-torture should read it. There's really not a credible debate on the topic when we don't even have the guts to call it torture, instead using sanitized terminology like "enhanced interrogation techniques." Maybe people have the idea that real torture is only maiming the victim, but the psychological damage of any torture last forever.

    It just bothers me when some asshole in a suit on TV argues for torture. It's an animal like instinct to exact revenge and is completely counter productive.
    I see both sides. Its very difficult to not want to get answers when they blow up a school bus full of children, or sneak into a house at night and slit the throat of everyone sleeping, including a baby.
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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Yes, quotes from pop stars are very relevant for philosophy research papers.
    Its even debateable if Annie Lennox is still a star?

    I read somewhere that in those secert CIA "black box" detention facilities that the terrorists had TV's in their cells that ran the 700 Club 24/7. How that for torture.
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    Default Re: Torturing Terror Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by fast tan77 View Post
    Its even debateable if Annie Lennox is still a star?

    I read somewhere that in those secert CIA "black box" detention facilities that the terrorists had TV's in their cells that ran the 700 Club 24/7. How that for torture.
    I'd rather be water boarded than watch the 700 club.
    Last edited by bucket; 06-15-2011 at 10:24 PM.

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