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Thread: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequences .

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequences .

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    (snip)"(Reuters) - Dutch populist politician Geert Wilders was acquitted of inciting hatred of Muslims in a court ruling on Thursday that may strengthen his political influence and exacerbate tensions over immigration policy.

    The case was seen by some as a test of free speech in a country which has a long tradition of tolerance and blunt talk, but where opposition to immigration, particularly from Muslim or predominantly Muslim countries, is on the rise.

    Instantly recognizable by his mane of dyed blond hair, Wilders, 47, is one of the most outspoken critics of Islam and immigration in the Netherlands.

    His Freedom Party is now the third-largest in parliament, a measure of support for its anti-immigrant stance, and is the minority government's chief ally. But many of Wilders' comments -- such as likening Islam to Nazism -- are socially divisive.

    The presiding judge said Wilders's remarks were sometimes "hurtful," "shocking" or "offensive," but that they were made in the context of a public debate about Muslim integration and multi-culturalism, and therefore not a criminal act.

    "I am extremely pleased and happy," Wilders told reporters after the ruling. "This is not so much a win for myself, but a victory for freedom of speech. Fortunately you can criticize Islam and not be gagged in public debate."

    The ruling could embolden Wilders further. He has already won concessions from the government on cutting immigration and introducing a ban on Muslim face veils and burqas.

    "This means that his political views are condoned by law, his political rhetoric has been legalized," said Andre Krouwel, a political scientist at Amsterdam's Free University.

    "This has made him stronger politically. He is needed for a political majority, he is basically vice prime minister without even being in the government."

    Some Dutch citizens have started to question their country's traditionally generous immigration and aid policies, worried by the deteriorating economic climate, higher unemployment, incidence of ethnic crime and signs that Muslim immigrants have not fully integrated into Dutch society.

    Similar concerns have helped far-right parties to gain traction elsewhere in Europe, from France to Scandinavia.(snip)


    In a nutshell, the Dutch Supreme Court ruled that Rep. Wilders' open discussion of the 'problems' that muslim immigrants are causing to Dutch society ( crime, social welfare costs, resistance to cultural assimilation etc. ) does not constitute 'hate speech'. Essentially the court found that if such 'problems' are in fact directly correlated to a particular minority group, discussion of such 'problems' and the fact that a large percentage of such 'problems' is directly correlated to a particular minority group, constitutes legitimate 'free speech'.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    Wilders should watch his back, nevertheless. The assassination of Theo Van Gogh is an example of what can happen when a European speaks out against Islam or Muslim people.

    Many European countries' liberal, tolerant views on immigration have caused the influx of Muslims, but what they didn't plan for was the violence, lack of assimilation, and intolerance of the Muslims towards their own cultures. It would make sense to limit immigration of a group of people who may fanatically consider the west to be full of "infidels." I'm glad they are getting over some of the political correctness.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    Quote Originally Posted by girlfromipanema View Post
    Wilders should watch his back, nevertheless. The assassination of Theo Van Gogh is an example of what can happen when a European speaks out against Islam or Muslim people.

    Many European countries' liberal, tolerant views on immigration have caused the influx of Muslims, but what they didn't plan for was the violence, lack of assimilation, and intolerance of the Muslims towards their own cultures. It would make sense to limit immigration of a group of people who may fanatically consider the west to be full of "infidels." I'm glad they are getting over some of the political correctness.
    Yep. I have relatives in France and they are terrified the Muslims will take over. Think we have a problem with illegals here? At least our illegals are Christian and western. Their illegals are often hatemongers and have a different culture.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    What did they think was going to happen when they opened up their borders and encouraged people from a Muslim culture to emigrate? Did they really think they'd drop their fundamentalist religious beliefs and become euro-atheists?

    Naive and they're paying the price.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    This video gives an overview of the nasty predicament that Europe is in thanks to political correctness. It doesn't mention the rise in honor killings and domestic violence towards women committed by Muslim immigrants.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU7T5fbJbq0

    They can't really do much about the Muslim population they already have there, even when they threaten the safety of the other citizens. It's like the racial profiling issue here in the states. Many consider it wrong to pull over black drivers just because they fit a profile, ask Latin Americans for their green cards, or stop Middle Eastern peope from boarding planes. They will get accused of infringing on their rights. It's a difficult situation.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    They can't really do much about the Muslim population they already have there, even when they threaten the safety of the other citizens

    Actually a couple of anti-immigration European politicians have proposed the resurrection of a 1930's policy ... if one immigrant is found guilty of a serious crime, their entire family can be deported.

    Overall though it was reassuring to see that the court did squash the use of 'political correctness' / the 'race card' to avoid open discussion of a serious problem issue.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    I hate all religions!!!! They're all fucking ignorant!!!

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    Yep. I have relatives in France and they are terrified the Muslims will take over. Think we have a problem with illegals here? At least our illegals are Christian and western. Their illegals are often hatemongers and have a different culture.
    I would just like to say Muslims are not the problem because we have tons of them in America. Islamic extremists are the problem. There is a HUGE difference between someone who is a Muslim and someone who is an Islamic extremist. Like there is a huge difference between being a southern Baptist and a Catholic even though the two are both based in Christianity. Muslims and Islamic extremists both have their religion based on the Koran and the similarities end there. Please stop grouping the two together because they are not the same and it gives all Muslims a bad name.

    And, seriously, we're having a "our illegal immigrants are better than yours because they're Christian" comparison. We here in the west are not Christian because we all thought Christianity was the best thing since sliced white bread. Most of the west is Christian because before people even thought about leaving Europe and heading across the pond to do things their own way, you had two choices conform or die. When they left Europe the Christianity came with them.
    Thank Goodness I smartened up! The old me is dead and gone.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    I agree that we should not group all Muslims as problematic to Western society. But how would a country like France be able to determine which Muslim immigrants are likely to engage in terrorist activity, violence towards women, and practice sharia law in their country?

    A recent poll conducted in the UK revealed that 40% of the Muslims living there want to enact sharia law, which involves the cutting off of hands, condones beating ones wife, demands the execution of homosexuals, and whipping and stoning to death as punishment. The fact that 40% of the muslims in the UK alone believe that sharia law should prevail scares the shit out of me.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

    Here is one of many examples of honor killings that occur in Europe and the United States:

    "Banaz Mahmod, 20, was strangled with a boot lace, stuffed into a suitcase and buried in a back garden.
    Her death is the latest in an increasing trend of such killings in Britain, home to some 1.8 million Muslims. More than 100 homicides are under investigation as potential "honor killings." The men accused the young woman of shaming her family by ending an abusive arranged marriage, becoming too Westernized and falling in love with a man who didn't come from their Iraqi village."
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...rkilling_N.htm

    Now this kind of behavior is generally accepted as normal in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Indonesia, Libya, Jordan, Pakistan, Syria, etc., and people from these countries emmigrate to Western countries bringing these harmful beliefs and practices with them. For us to say that it is not a Muslim problem would be to kid ourselves. It is very much a Muslim problem. Since there is no way of distinguishing who is a "moderate" Muslim and who is "extremist" let them all stay in their own countries and not risk bringing anymore violence here. We have more than enough already.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    Quote Originally Posted by So Fine Divyne View Post
    I would just like to say Muslims are not the problem because we have tons of them in America. Islamic extremists are the problem. There is a HUGE difference between someone who is a Muslim and someone who is an Islamic extremist. Like there is a huge difference between being a southern Baptist and a Catholic even though the two are both based in Christianity. Muslims and Islamic extremists both have their religion based on the Koran and the similarities end there. Please stop grouping the two together because they are not the same and it gives all Muslims a bad name.

    And, seriously, we're having a "our illegal immigrants are better than yours because they're Christian" comparison. We here in the west are not Christian because we all thought Christianity was the best thing since sliced white bread. Most of the west is Christian because before people even thought about leaving Europe and heading across the pond to do things their own way, you had two choices conform or die. When they left Europe the Christianity came with them.
    The Muslims in Europe are the problems because they are getting the extremists emigrating there. Most of the ones we are getting in the USA aren't radical, though there are the 9/11 hijackers who came here. Btw, I have a friend who lives in an area where Muslims are moving to and she's told me many stories of how they have been protesting anything Christian related in the schools like Christmas parties. She told me she told them if they hate it move back from where they came!

    You missed the other point I made and that was the illegals we get in the USA are usually from countries like Mexico, a western country. The Muslims who are going to Europe are many extremists.

    Where did I say anything about all Christians being better? There are many decent Muslims and nasty Christians, but many Muslims are scum when they believe things like multiple marriages, that women should be covered, that rape victims are the same, etc. Those Muslims are little more than animals and I will not defend them at all.

    I've heard too that a huge majority of the Muslims emigrating to Europe are on assistance. Perhaps Melonie knows stats on that, but I have seen them somewhere and it was around 60% or so.

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    Luckily, Europe is our early warning system on this issue and it will be a wake-up call for us!

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    Default Re: Interesting Supreme Court Ruling in Holland that may have far-reaching consequenc

    Christians, Muslims, and Jews are all the problem. Atheists like myself need to stand up to them and start recruiting to our side. People who believe in god and other ignorant fantasies are a menace to society. Thanks for people like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Penn Jillete who have the balls to attack religion as a cancer on modern society. Judging by 9/11 that crap is gonna get us killed one day.

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