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Thread: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

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    Default Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    In Mississippi a teenage girl is being charged with murder, after losing her baby 36 months into her pregnancy. She is being charged with murder because she had a cocaine habit, even though there is no proof it had anything to do with the loss of her pregnancy.

    In Indiana, a woman has spent the past three months in prison and is being charged with the death of her baby. When she was pregnant, she tried to commit suicide when her boyfriend abandoned her. She survived, her fetus didn't, so she is being charged with murder.

    In Alabama, a woman whose baby died after birth is being charged for murder on the grounds that she had taken drugs during her pregnancy - a claim she has denied.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...murder-charges

    Seems that the American Taliban see women as nothing more than baby factories with no rights.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Say...36 months into pregnancy? O.o

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    This is terrible but what happens when you put hardcore Republicans in charge. And to answer the question, the American Taliban aka the Religious Right only think of women as babymakers. I've had guy friends brainwashed by these groups and it's terrifying. Think it's stop with abortion? Guess again. These people want to take away the voting rights of women. Yep you heard right.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    I really don't think that I have heard anything that's quite so insane - and so dangerous.
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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Sorry, but doing coke while being 36 weeks pregnant, which translate to 8 months, is a very punishable idiotic crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxxtc View Post
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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    On the one hand, I think that people who willingly do something that endangers the health of a baby, after deciding that they do want to carry the baby to term, are idiots. I mean, if you're gonna have the kid, then commit yourself to keeping it healthy. If you don't want to give up your bad habits, then just get the freakin' abortion. But, on the other hand - until that fetus exits the woman's body, as crass as it sounds, I consider it a leech - an extension of the woman. She can do what she wants. It shouldn't be a crime. This shit is just ridiculous. It's amazing how people care more about unborn fetuses than the women standing right in front of them actually having to deal with life. They'll fight for your rights while you're in the womb, but don't pop out as a woman, or they'll fight to take them all away....

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    That is because children are innocent. Sure, it's the woman's choice to do whatever she wants to do with her body, as long as it doesn't affect a living breathing being that depends on her every last move to survive. So she would've birthed a cocaine addicted baby who would grow up to be a PERSON with brain damage and possibly a terrible quality of life and bad health. Babies and fetuses do not stay that way... they grow up and suffer.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxxtc View Post
    MEN - poorly designed creatures

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by BunniHops View Post
    That is because children are innocent. Sure, it's the woman's choice to do whatever she wants to do with her body, as long as it doesn't affect a living breathing being that depends on her every last move to survive. So she would've birthed a cocaine addicted baby who would grow up to be a PERSON with brain damage and possibly a terrible quality of life and bad health. Babies and fetuses do not stay that way... they grow up and suffer.
    Now, THAT is actually a good argument for making doing drugs while pregnant against the law. I applaud that reasoning. It's very logical.

    However, most of these lawmakers are not thinking that way. They're not thinking about how these kids will grow up - they're only concerned that they not get aborted. They don't give a crap about these kids after they're out of the womb. They just want to demonize women who get pregnant and don't give birth. Like I said, they'll fight for you while you're in the womb, but if you grow up to be a crack addict even though it wasn't in your control.... are they going to care that your mom took crack while pregnant with you. NOPE. They don't give a shit - they think you're trash. Why do they care about what you ingest from your mother before you're born but not after?

    They're not charging these women with "abuse" and claiming that they are endangering a life - they are calling them murderers before that fetus even lives a remotely suffering life. Based on your reasoning, I can see making taking drugs while pregnant a crime, (abuse or endangerment - not murder - these women are stupid but they are not trying to kill the fetus) but when it comes to abortion, I still see the woman as above the fetus. And in the case of the woman who tried to kill herself and ended up killing the fetus but not herself... it's just cruel to charge her with murder.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    That woman should be charged with murder but she should be charged with some sort of crime. Taking drugs while pregnant? THAT'S what is insane here.

    Edited so say that she should NOT be charged with murder, but some other crime....sorry...
    Last edited by Mr Hyde; 06-25-2011 at 09:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    What about the other two women, though? Especially the one that tried to commit suicide because the boyfriend left -if anything they should get her in counseling & charge the boyfriend instead if they're that desperate to sart charging people for crimes....

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by BunniHops View Post
    Sorry, but doing coke while being 36 weeks pregnant, which translate to 8 months, is a very punishable idiotic crime.
    I agree pregnant women shouldn't be doing coke, but I don't equate it with murder, especially for someone who isn't even an adult. There are actual murderers that get lighter sentences than what this 15 year old girl may potentially get.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Btw, I do think it's idiotic to do drugs while pregnant. If I become pregnant you better believe I will take care of myself and the fetus. I will not drink booze and even curtail my caffeine habit. I don't do drugs or even smoke so that's not a point.However I do not think it's murder.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Doing drugs, while pregnant or not, already is illegal. :p

    If you push a pregnant woman down the stairs and she miscarries, you'll be charged with murder. If you kill a pregnant woman, you'll be charged with two counts of murder. I don't think if you do drugs and your baby dies, you should be charged with murder, as the crime lacks intent. Something along the lines of negligent homicide makes more sense, but at least they're being consistent.

    If I had it my way drinking while pregnant would carry some reckless endagerment charges, at least.
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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    This is illogical to me. Abortion is legal because the powers that be have declared that a fetus is not a person until it is born. How can you be charged with murder if the fetus is not a legal person?

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    That is not why abortion is legal, abortion is legal because the courts determined the right to privacy included the right for women to have abortions. It had nothing to do with a fetus being a person or not.
    Last edited by Trem; 06-26-2011 at 10:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    This has nothing to do with miscarriages being illegal but rather illegal activities that cost lives. Its not terribly different than someone dying because of drunk driving or some other crime of negligence. When someone's carelessness or stupidity costs a life, there should be consequences.
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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Seems that the American Taliban see women as nothing more than baby factories with no rights.
    lol a bit dramatic.

    I'm all for mass sterilization and artificial wombs. Flame away.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by lilykane View Post
    lol a bit dramatic.

    I'm all for mass sterilization and artificial wombs. Flame away.
    I'm all for imposed in planted birth control for those on public assistance.

    Then again I am for creche families with an intent to raise State wards as productive .gov employees too.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Again, what about the other two women in the article that weren't on drugs & still getting charged.....

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Too grey for me. These crimes are definitely not murder... I agree with lestat about the lack of intent.

    What we have here is no variables. The girl with the cocaine problem whose baby died at 36 weeks for example. Was she 36 weeks pregnant by choice? If she has no access to resources to enable her to have an abortion, or if her parents were disapproving of her aborting, etc etc then quite honestly? Shit like this is going to happen. Banning abortion and placing more restrictions on accessibility is only going to increase incidents like these.

    If she was pregnant by choice? Well that's also grey for me. Was she 16 when she got pregnant, or 15? That makes a huge difference in the age of consent in some places; therefore her parents are liable for what happened. Hell even if she was 16, age of consent is not the same as being a legal adult. Therefore as a minor, I turn to her parents to accept some of the responsibility.

    The woman who attempted suicide? Not grey at all. Give me a fucking break. That woman was obviously in emotional peril and unstable. She needs help, not prison time.

    All these news laws etc again, are just going to make cases like this more prevalent. It's absolute insanity.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by CharJW View Post
    This is illogical to me. Abortion is legal because the powers that be have declared that a fetus is not a person until it is born. How can you be charged with murder if the fetus is not a legal person?
    The right to abortion is not without restriction. For example, in the third trimester, abortions are illegal. During the second trimester, abortions can be reasonably regulated. It is only during the first trimester that abortions are legal with minimal restrictions.

    HTH
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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Drug addiction doesn't magically vanish when a woman becomes pregnant. I don't see how prosecuting an addict for murder solely because they keep being an addict is logical or helpful in any way.

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandi_Lynn View Post
    Again, what about the other two women in the article that weren't on drugs & still getting charged.....
    Well, as for the woman who tried to kill herself, if you took a gun, tried to shoot and yourself, missed, and somehow shot your kid, you ought to pay the price. The other woman's story wasn't told completely but she was apparently convicted. Prisons are full of people claiming to be innocent. I realize its a touchy issue, but if intentional actions or carelessness can be proven to have cost a life, someone needs to be held to account.
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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    Doing drugs, while pregnant or not, already is illegal. :p

    If you push a pregnant woman down the stairs and she miscarries, you'll be charged with murder. If you kill a pregnant woman, you'll be charged with two counts of murder. I don't think if you do drugs and your baby dies, you should be charged with murder, as the crime lacks intent. Something along the lines of negligent homicide makes more sense, but at least they're being consistent.

    If I had it my way drinking while pregnant would carry some reckless endagerment charges, at least.
    this makes way more sense

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    Default Re: Miscarriage is becoming illegal in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Well, as for the woman who tried to kill herself, if you took a gun, tried to shoot and yourself, missed, and somehow shot your kid, you ought to pay the price. The other woman's story wasn't told completely but she was apparently convicted. Prisons are full of people claiming to be innocent. I realize its a touchy issue, but if intentional actions or carelessness can be proven to have cost a life, someone needs to be held to account.
    I don't think that's really a good comparison. If you mis-shoot a gun and hit someone else, that's already a totally separate life. If you shoot yourself while pregnant, you didn't miss yourself, but the fetus inside you was going to be affected because it's still a part of you. This woman was clearly mentally unstable. She wanted to die. There was no way for her to die without the fetus being affected. If someone's so emotionally distraught that they want to kill themselves, they're not going to put it off until they go into labor and give birth so that they can set the child aside so it's not affected when they harm themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelGirl View Post
    Drug addiction doesn't magically vanish when a woman becomes pregnant. I don't see how prosecuting an addict for murder solely because they keep being an addict is logical or helpful in any way.
    And I agree with this. Yes, like lestat said, doing drugs is already illegal, pregnant or not. But to charge a drug addict with murder because their actions cost a life is just ridiculous. Again, they didn't affect a life that was already separate from them because of their actions. Anything they did to themselves was going to affect the fetus that was still a part of their body. A person who's an alcoholic can choose to not drive home so if he hits and kills someone, yes, he should be responsible. But a drug addict that becomes pregnant cannot choose to just not have the crack transferred to the baby, and they're addicted which means they can't stop.

    The difference I think people should remember is that in these cases, the women were not doing anything specifically to the fetus. They were doing it to themselves, and by virtue of the fact that a fetus is still a apart of them and their body, yes, it was affected. But if you do something that kills a person out in the world, you weren't just doing something to yourself - you were doing something stupid that was going to be reckless to the people around you. That's why it's murder. But doing something to yourself because of mental illness or addiction, and you happen to be pregnant at the time? You can't avoid that the fetus still inside your body will be affected. And, yes, of course, you can argue that because of that fact, women should be charged with endangerment for doing something to themselves that they know will harm the fetus, but again - depression and drug addiction aren't magically curtailed by pregnancy.

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