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Thread: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Exclamation AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    I've been an activist for several years. Mostly in the consumer protections aspect. Doing checks on pyramid scams and advising the public on poor contracting in and around pyramid scams. During college and in recent years I've helped a few owners, photogs and models in the online altporn industry. At first it seemed like altporn was some brave new alternative form of adult entertainment and that these altporn website owners would be treating adult entertainment with more respect than other adult entertainment outlets. Unfortunately I was dead wrong and I've found that a lot of altporn sites as well as almost every cam site I have reviewed online are complete scams.

    The worst being Myfreecams.com After seeing the Myfreecams contract for myself and running it by several lawyers including two ACLU lawyers I can say without a doubt this operation is a pure scam. the lawyers i showed it too were entirely floored by the contract and didn't even believe a company was actually making models sign this thing.

    If you have signed on with Myfreecams and feel afraid you can not get out of your contract DO NOT WORRY. The contract itself is so criminal in nature it would never hold up in court.

    I am now working with a group of web developers who are exploring the establishment of the first actual non-profit group dedicated to ethical labor, pay and contracting practices and protections for online adult entertainment workers.

    I know this sounds like an insane idea and we have gotten a lot of resistance from the industry as a whole but we have seen that ethical pay and contracting can not only make better money for all those involved but it can sustain itself and grow in this industry.

    How to navigate contracting and pay in Adult Entertainment.

    The TEN commandments of contracts and pay:

    1: If the person giving you this contract asks you not to show it to the general public or any other party to review it , DO NOT SIGN IT.

    2: If the contract does not specifically define how you will be paid, DO NOT SIGN IT.

    3: If the contract commits you to exclusive work and you image or likeness can not be on another website or publication and they do not offer at least a living wage or at least regular month to month work on fair pay for your work during that time, DO NOT SIGN IT.

    4: If you are asked to remove and/or sign over your other work to become their property as well DO NOT SIGN IT.

    5: Any less than $5 per photo and $20 an hour for shooting naked pictures is entirely unfair. Obviously for photos or video with more sexual content that rate should go UP.
    $5 per photo and $20 an hour is a BARE MINIMUM rate.

    6: If you are not being paid right away for shoots or video GET A CONTRACT that specifically defines when and what you are paid within reason or else DO NOT PERFORM.

    7: LEARN TO TALK RESIDUALS the website owner/publication is going to make a lot more money off those photos and videos. YOU DESERVE A PERCENTAGE OF THAT. This is a standard form of contracting with any and all professional models, actors, writers, directors, photographers and even more mainstream Adult entertainers. It is neither unheard of nor unreasonable for YOU to get residuals too. It is simply that a lot of armature pornographers and non-mainstream adult entertainers try to suppress residual contracting thinking they will save money. Actually paying residuals ensures WORK, enriches the content and makes it easier for everyone to maintain a better product. This is a PROVEN way of doing things in any form of entertainment, even Adult.
    What are residuals?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residua...nt_industry%29

    8: LEARN TO NEGOTIATE
    You will get pressured to sign contracts and not negotiate but no serious entertainer out there has ever NOT negotiated a contract. There is no such thing as a standard non-negotiable contract. If a website really wants you, they can be flexible. You may not get as much work but what you WILL get is ACTUAL PAY instead of what so many models get too often, which is an all out fleecing. Send the contract back with questions, suggestions, new terms you would feel better about. Negotiating contract terms is the hallmark of any REAL professional.
    Learn more about contracts and negotiating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract

    9: WATCH YOUR METHODS OF PAY.
    Clearly written in the TOS of Paypal (when you first set up your account) it is clearly stated that they do not handle transactions concerning adult entertainment. THAT INCLUDES PAY. Always read and understand your methods of pay. If your online banking will not handle these transactions then DO NOT use it. You also have the right to paper checks upon request. No one offering pay for services can refuse sending you a proper check in the mail or charge you for getting you actual checks if you ask. Direct deposit is also a good option.

    10: KNOW WHAT AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR IS and the law according to independent contracting
    In most, if not ALL adult entertainment, models and performers are paid as ‘independent contractors’. This is because most adult entertainment companies and websites do not want to handle actual hiring or W2 worker status and pay.
    Working as an independent contractor means several things that are far different from being a hired worker. Find them out and LEARN THEM:
    (PLEASE READ)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_contractor

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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    BTW, I know there are MFC supporters on this site. I know Myfreecams threatens to sue people. Well, I also happen to know that several others including three BBB reps as well as the ACLU have all sighted the unfair practices with Myfreecams and directly contacted their slime ball owner Leo Radvinsky about it. Openly MyFreeCams doesn't care and they can't do anything to anyone after threatening because THEY KNOW they are corrupt and scamming models and people they set up as these "studio" owners. THEY KNOW that no jury in ANY country would hold up for them in court. These companies do business with fear and threats. There are threats in their own contracts. Threats and fear only work when you actually have something to threaten with.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    There is a difference between an unfair/corrupt company and a scam. MFC models do what they signed up to do and they get paid on time for it. That's not a scam. Say what you want about their contract and the company, but don't call it a scam. And on that note...if you want to try to give legal advice as a brand new member you should refrain from using rhetoric that doesn't apply. The last thing I'm going to do is accept legal advice from someone who sounds like a conspiracy theorist nutjob.
    Quote Originally Posted by lokikola View Post
    I don't give a fuck if they throw it, crumple it, put it in my garter, my shoe, between my tits, in my thong, or in my hand. Just tip me, bitch.
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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    A "a conspiracy theorist nutjob.". Interesting. I wonder how it is a "conspiracy theory" when even the company that publishes the contract admits they can not validate the system by which they pay models. Hell, they don't even define the actual system of pay out in their own contract. They leave that to these "studio" agreements that don't even have to be actual written agreements.
    So the BBB and ACLU are also crazy "conspiracy theorists" now too?

    It is often the case that when a pyramid scam or a company that exploits labor with loopholes and unfair contracting gets cornered and has no valid retort to the charges against them, they either claim the people who have found them out are crazy or competition.

    FYI, when you defraud a model and under sell her content over the web, that IS a SCAM.

    Your response is hardly unexpected. You aren't even trying to deny it. Actually you sound a lot like Radvinsky himself; "They sign up for it themselves", "It isn't our fault they don't understand what they are signing".

    And how are basic concepts in modeling contract negotiations, "rhetoric that doesn't apply."?

    No one ever said you HAVE to accept my advice or anyone else's but I don't make a dime off it and calling ME crazy for saying the same thing an ACLU lawyer would tell any adult model is,.. well,.. crazy.

    what else you got?
    Last edited by twigs; 07-02-2011 at 10:04 AM.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    I didn't call you a conspiracy theorist nutjob. On the contrary, it looks as though you've done some research and could probably be of some help to webcam models. But when you start using pejorative words like "scam" inappropriately than you seem less helpful and more hot headed. What I was trying to tell you is that you're not a conspiracy theorist nutjob, so stop writing like one.
    Quote Originally Posted by lokikola View Post
    I don't give a fuck if they throw it, crumple it, put it in my garter, my shoe, between my tits, in my thong, or in my hand. Just tip me, bitch.
    Join my weight loss group!







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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.


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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    I didn't call you a conspiracy theorist nutjob. On the contrary, it looks as though you've done some research and could probably be of some help to webcam models. But when you start using pejorative words like "scam" inappropriately than you seem less helpful and more hot headed. What I was trying to tell you is that you're not a conspiracy theorist nutjob, so stop writing like one.
    Sorry to burst you bubble but if "writing like a conspiracy theorist nut job" includes simply restating the EXACT SAME content that the ACLU and BBB have published or what any lawyer would tell you, then you still have some marbles missing from your replies. When a company defrauds a person providing a service of value which in turn causes financial losses to that person, that IS a "SCAM".

    Any time a person provides something of value to another person or company under an agreement that is fraudulent or otherwise dishonest, that is a scam.
    There are consumer scams and labor scams and both follow the same principals of displaced finances as a result of fraud.

    That is hardly the six+ years of paralegal work before and during collage talker either.
    That is VERY BASIC information.

    I am sorry to snap but slinging around insinuations of people being "crazy" or sounding "crazy" is VERY common of those who try to defend these kind of people in the industry or those who feel afraid because they themselves may be getting shafted in bad contracts.

    I have not yet nor ever will write like a "conspiracy theorist nut job", I am sorry to say.
    Last edited by twigs; 07-02-2011 at 10:36 AM.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Same old song and dance..

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    Sorry to burst you bubble but if "writing like a conspiracy theorist nut job" includes simply restating the EXACT SAME content that the ACLU and BBB have published or what any lawyer would tell you, then you still have some marbles missing from your replies. When a company defrauds a person providing a service of value which in turn causes financial losses to that person, that IS a "SCAM".

    Any time a person provides something of value to another person or company under an agreement that is fraudulent or otherwise dishonest, that is a scam.
    There are consumer scams and labor scams and both follow the same principals of displaced finances as a result of fraud.
    Please explain how the MFC is defrauding their models as well as how they are directly causing financial losses to them. So far you have just shouted that it's a scam without giving any examples.

    Also please link to where the ACLU and BBB have published that it is a "scam." And please quote your multiple lawyers that told you it was a "scam."

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    That is hardly the six+ years of paralegal work before and during collage talker either.
    That is VERY BASIC information.
    Um, I couldn't understand exactly what you said there but I took it as a condescending attack at my education and relative reading comprehension, which I just say to you: at least I know how to spell "college."
    Quote Originally Posted by lokikola View Post
    I don't give a fuck if they throw it, crumple it, put it in my garter, my shoe, between my tits, in my thong, or in my hand. Just tip me, bitch.
    Join my weight loss group!







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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    This is interesting and I'm curious to hear more of your viewpoint. I don't cam but my friends who do MFC have told me they haven't had an issue w getting paid. I am all for busting pyramid scheme scams, MLM, etc. I hate that shit and how it sucks in stupid people who then bug me at work or in my personal life.

    Thanks for sharing, please share more.

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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Please explain how the MFC is defrauding their models as well as how they are directly causing financial losses to them.

    Also please link to where the ACLU and BBB have published that it is a "scam." And please quote your multiple lawyers that told you it was a "scam."

    Have you actually seen the myfreecams contract?!
    For one thing it DOES NOT define or establish exactly how the model is paid. It talks about the token system but the actual token value is something that can change. For actual payment terms It defers to this "studio" agreement which isn't even part of the myfreecams.com agreement and is supposed to come AFTER the model signs the myfreecams contract. That is just the beginning. Then you have the "universal" content terms which are far to over reaching to include any other work the model might do. There are no terms covering recorded content rights, residuals or establishment of compensation to that effect but hell, since they have already cut the model out of any real agreement on pay that is hardly any concern, right?
    Then the contract goes on to define this insane liability hand off where myfreecams is actually making the model sign away any and all right to review of the contract, legal dispute even if MFC violated THEIR part of the agreement and then MFC includes a term about legal fees reaching over $100 in dispute issues in court. What court action doesn't reach over $100 if it gets that far?!

    The ACLU and BBB both have documented that any company that uses deceptive contracting by use of such terms to retain labor or sell a product is a "scam".
    If you are as smart as you elude to then this contract would stick out like a sore thumb.
    It is a blatant rip off.

    Of course if you like, I'll send you a copy of the contract. Many lawyers will do a consultation on documents for as little as $15. Or you can just send copies to the ACLU and BBB and they will tell you for FREE.

    But the last time I confronted Leo Radvinsky or any of his representatives with the names of each lawyer I've spoken with they got harassed latter.
    This isn't really a popular issue. No one seems to care when a model is getting screwed in a contract if she happens to be doing adult work.
    If you really need the names of these lawyers, I will refer you to them but NOT publicly on a forum and I'll need to know exactly who YOU are. Likewise I'll tell you who I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Um, I couldn't understand exactly what you said there but I took it as a condescending attack at my education and relative reading comprehension, which I just say to you: at least I know how to spell "college."
    I made a typo,.. oh no. Listen, I've been no more or less snarky than you have and for that, I am sorry. I am not saying you are stupid. However if you have seen the myfreecams contract for yourself and still think It isn't a scam then I'd have to question either your integrity or sanity.

    A forum one of the web developers Myfreecams CEO Leo Radvinsky ripped off posted in:

    http://www.dnforum.com/f26/leo-radvi...ad-306757.html


    The BBB rating for the company operating MFC.

    http://www.bbb.org/chicago/business-...7#reasonrating

    Clearly printed:
    'This Business is not BBB Accredited'

    The simple fact that MFC has registered their business name under their URL instead of the company name Radvinsky was once using 'Activsoft' is also another indicator that they are evading liability. This may not even be a registered LLC, CO or INC.

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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Must return to work. talk amongst yourselves. call me crazy if you want.

    If you have been on myfreecams and have made an actual living wadge from it without having to cam hardcore content then tell me your story. Because I haven't found a model yet that has.

    From what I have seen on average models who operate their own cam sites (by that i mean they own 100% of the site, cam and paysite) make 300% more than models on these sleezy cam sites and there are plenty who are even doing it without even being fully nude half the time.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Guess I don't understand how it is a scam with the models getting paid. A scam would be if they are told one thing and MFC did not deliver. It appears what is being presented is the possibility of a situation arising for which a model may not have legal recourse based on the contract IF MFC did not come thru with payment.

    I too fail to see where the models are being 'defrauded' or 'suffering financial losses'.

    To the OP....can sum up your opinion real quick....don't sign anything without being reviewed by your lawyer. There ya go.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Ok I don't know anything about MFC but know people that have worked for them and gotten paid. To me that's not a scam. What are scams are the companies that don't pay and I've gotten stung a few times from modeling (Doug Young and Midwest Models)to clubs that weren't there to phone sex lines (ABC and Tradewinds phone sex lines).

    I can't be the only one who wonders if the op is an owner of a competitor. Otherwise I don't get his vendetta against MFC. Maybe they are scams, I don't know but doesn't sound like it.

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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    Ok I don't know anything about MFC but know people that have worked for them and gotten paid. To me that's not a scam. What are scams are the companies that don't pay and I've gotten stung a few times from modeling (Doug Young and Midwest Models)to clubs that weren't there to phone sex lines (ABC and Tradewinds phone sex lines).

    I can't be the only one who wonders if the op is an owner of a competitor. Otherwise I don't get his vendetta against MFC. Maybe they are scams, I don't know but doesn't sound like it.
    I keep hearing this point about the models getting paid by MFC but have yet to hear about the pay itself ever being fair. I never said they were not getting paid but how they pay models and the contracting they use to retain and establish the rate of pay for models are what is in question.

    As I said, I have yet to meet many MFC models who are making a living wadge from the site. I've met NONE who can actually tell anyone that they understand the terms of the contract they signed with MFC. Of course since the MFC contract threatens the models who sign it that they can not discus the contract itself with any legal council or other party (another clearly dishonest practice) we would not hear any such thing from a MFC model. How can anyone justify a contract that threatens something like that?

    As I said earlier, when these kinds of companies come under question people tend to accuse that the people asking the questions or calling them out on it are either insane or a competitor. Now I see both accusations are in effect. This only substantiates that MFC has a serious problem and instead of actually answering the questions or looking at the proof at hand, people are willing to sling insane accusations to deflect the issue.

    I do not make a dime from any adult entertainment of any kind.

    I stand firmly on the fact that MFC contracting and pay scheme are dishonest and unfair to the models. If organizations like the BBB and ACLU did not agree on that, I wouldn't be so firm about it.
    I ask any of YOU. Take a copy of the MFC contract (I can send you one), email it to any ACLU or BBB rep and ask about it's integrity. This is an entirely free process and will only cost you in postage if you happen to use snail mail instead of email. If any of them tell you anything different from what I have told you, I'll gladly take a walk. Unfortunately I know they wont.
    It isn't just MFC that has a problem with contracting and pay. Much of the problem comes from how the industry has continued to exploit models and photographers to keep Adult Entertainment from entering into the same kind of internet residual deals that all other forms of online media have developed. Websites say they are making less money when in fact they are making record profits and edging the talent more and more out of the percentages they are due.
    This is something A LOT of websites are doing these days.

    There are actually websites, in this country that are paying models as little as $80.00 for entire photo sets of fully nude work.
    Suicide Girls is actually STILL having models turn over entire sets of photo nudes FOR FREE, paying them nothing and selling the sets online while the models think it is their "audition".

    A website called Altporn.net recently had an awards for "altporn". A majority of the winners of this award (models, photogs and websites) were all members of blueblood's spookycash affiliate program as well as the blueblood website itself. Altporn.net is actually OWNED by blueblood.com.

    These websites don't even care that it is obvious they are lying to the public and the models who get suckered into working for them.
    They assume that since there are so many who will be desperate enough to take the contracts no matter how bad they are, that they can just do what ever they want.
    They can afford to pay better, to contract better and to treat the talent with more respect but since no one even speaks up, they keep doing "business as usual".

    I don't know, maybe it doesn't matter.
    I know models and photogs who work hard and get treated like crap and I've gotten sick of it. That is the only reason I ever spoke up.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider View Post

    To the OP....can sum up your opinion real quick....don't sign anything without being reviewed by your lawyer. There ya go.
    BAM! The first super logical thing I've seen in response on this thread. BLESS YOU! Here is a good point.

    The MFC contract maliciously threatens the model NOT to show the contract to ANY OTHER PARTY including any legal council.
    Why would any legitimate form of contract demand such a thing?

    If terms like that were not in the MFC contract, I wouldn't have a single problem with MFC.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    The OP has a lot of good information in here, regardless of if the "scam" terminology is off. The first thing pointed out about not showing the contract to other parties is EXACTLY the sort of thing models need to know about before signing up for this sort of thing. If a company is saying specifically that you can't show the contract to anyone else (including a lawyer) it's probably because either:

    1. They've written it to be one sided & only protect them.

    2. They have something in the contract that is illegal, & they are using the "you can't show are contract to anyone" as a scare tactic to keep you uninformed.

    A perfect example of a huge alt company that had illegal contracts which tons of talent signed... Suicide Girls. California Supreme Court forced SG to re-write the contracts because they were illegal. Why did know one say anything in the beginning though? Chances are they trusted SG too much & no one had a lawyer review it.
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    As I said, I have yet to meet many MFC models who are making a living wadge from the site......

    ......and instead of actually answering the questions or looking at the proof at hand, people are willing to sling insane accusations to deflect the issue....

    ............I stand firmly on the fact that MFC contracting and pay scheme are dishonest and unfair to the models.

    Look at the top page and follow some of the models on MFC and tell me they are not making a living wage from the site? True, they are in the minority but if MFC were a 'scam' would this be possible? Who is to say that majority of models are attempting to make a living wage? Could it not be that they are supplementing other income??


    Instead of answering the questions??? YOU are deflecting the issue.... show us how the models are being defrauded and suffering financial losses as you claim. A poor agreement...an unbalanced pay scenario does not equate to the models being defrauded. Not having a favorable 'token' redemption does not cause the model to suffer financial losses. It may cause them to not receive a 'fair' distribution of the money but once again, is not fraud, not a scam and not a cause of suffering financial losses.

    The pay scheme being unfair to the models due to the cut they are receiving does not make it a scam. Yes, it may not be 'fair' but once again that does not make it a scam. The models know the pay scenario before working.

    I have yet to hear a lady on here complain about not being paid.
    I have yet to hear a lady on here complain about being defrauded.
    I have yet to hear a lady on here complain about suffering financial losses.

    You go off on other subjects talking about model shoots and other web sites in an attempt to solidify your position on MFC.
    Last edited by Raider; 07-02-2011 at 07:29 PM.

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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    Have you actually seen the myfreecams contract?!
    For one thing it DOES NOT define or establish exactly how the model is paid. It talks about the token system but the actual token value is something that can change.
    Yeah, have you?

    Here's the part you were talking about...I think...

    Internet visitors to Websites (hereafter "Customers") purchase and use credits called "Tokens". Customers transfer Tokens to MODEL in the following ways, and at the following current rates:

    Private Show: 60 Tokens per minute;
    Voyeur Show: 20 Tokens per minute;
    TruePrivate Show: 80 Tokens per minute;
    Group Show: 10 Tokens per minute;
    Tips: Any number of Tokens.
    3.2 MFC shall pay MODEL for all Tokens transferred to MODEL at the current rate of USD$0.05 (5 cents) per Token.



    Seems pretty clear to me.

    Oh and btw, cammers are independent contractors. It is not the site's job to make sure bread gets on the table. I put a lot of stuff on ebay but do you hear me complaining about their cut and how Asian sellers are undercutting and how somehow that makes ebay a scam? No, because I am sane.
    Quote Originally Posted by lokikola View Post
    I don't give a fuck if they throw it, crumple it, put it in my garter, my shoe, between my tits, in my thong, or in my hand. Just tip me, bitch.
    Join my weight loss group!







  26. #20
    Featured Member vivianbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    OMG, there are sooooooo many worse sites than MFC for consumer/worker/model scams. Have you even HEARD of Dating Gold or AmatureMatch.com?! You are focused on the wrong head of the hydra, my friend.

    That is all.
    Last edited by vivianbear; 07-02-2011 at 08:19 PM.
    "SS=stripper shit, in the same spectrum as CS=customer shit, which is within the spectrum of SaS=sales shit, which is all contained in the universe of BS=bullshit." -- Jay Zeno (mod)

    "Show me a hot chick and I'll show you someone who's tired of fucking her."






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  28. #21
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    I am not especially impressed with what I saw of MFC, but there are worse out there. The studio girls in Eastern Europe in particular are getting shafted as far as what percentage of money taken in they are actually getting.

    The Eastern European girls are getting shafted every which way, as far as I can tell. Usually because they don't have their own equipment, and can't afford to buy it. Some of them are too stupid to care or look elsewhere though.

    By far the hottest girl I found when looking into the webcam business idea, a year and a half ago, is not making 1/10th of what she should be. But it is not necessarily the fault of the company she works for, if she stays with them voluntarily. They are paying her a decent percentage for her erotic shows and privates.

    And I once saw a girl make 80$ in tips in about 5 minutes on MFC. If she kept half that would be 40$ in 5 minutes, not a bad rate if it can be sustained at all.

    But the guys making by far the most money off the webcam sites are still the GUYS. So I don't think we need to roast the newbie over a fire for trying to tell women to look out for themselves a little more.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  29. #22
    God/dess laurielegs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    Must return to work. talk amongst yourselves. call me crazy if you want.

    If you have been on myfreecams and have made an actual living wadge from it without having to cam hardcore content then tell me your story. Because I haven't found a model yet that has.

    From what I have seen on average models who operate their own cam sites (by that i mean they own 100% of the site, cam and paysite) make 300% more than models on these sleezy cam sites and there are plenty who are even doing it without even being fully nude half the time.
    I know many models who are actually shutting down their members areas for their pay sites. It's really becoming a thing of the past. I have one that I'm closing soon in favor of my other site without a monthly membership where I can simply sell cam shows.

    Now I will agree with you about myfreecams taking advantage of models and taking the lion's share of the money, when the model does most of the work, but that is true of nearly all sites out there. Take a look at any and all contracts for the big box cam sites.

    I really wish it were true that I could make more with my own site. I have two and my income from those is a very very tiny percentage of what I make. There was a time when a model could be 100% independent but of all the cam hosts I know there are very very few who do not have to supplement their income with one of the larger sites.

    Do you have an example of one who does not? I'd love to ask her about it and have her come here and post how she is getting sufficient traffic all on her own.

    I'm also very curious what site has a contract you do think is fair. Unfortunately most sites that pay a really large percentage seem to have no paying members to speak of.

  30. #23
    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    ***cracks knuckles***

    Alright folks, I see it is time to get busy.

    AHHH hem

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider View Post
    Look at the top page and follow some of the models on MFC and tell me they are not making a living wage from the site? True, they are in the minority but if MFC were a 'scam' would this be possible? Who is to say that majority of models are attempting to make a living wage? Could it not be that they are supplementing other income??


    Instead of answering the questions??? YOU are deflecting the issue.... show us how the models are being defrauded and suffering financial losses as you claim. A poor agreement...an unbalanced pay scenario does not equate to the models being defrauded. Not having a favorable 'token' redemption does not cause the model to suffer financial losses. It may cause them to receive a 'fair' distribution of the money but once again, is not fraud, not a scam and not a cause of suffering financial losses.

    The pay scheme being unfair to the models due to the cut they are receiving does not make it a scam. Yes, it may not be 'fair' but once again that does not make it a scam. The models know the pay scenario before working.

    I have yet to hear a lady on here complain about not being paid.
    I have yet to hear a lady on here complain about being defrauded.
    I have yet to hear a lady on here complain about suffering financial losses.

    You go off on other subjects talking about model shoots and other web sites in an attempt to solidify your position on MFC.
    I invite you to look at this contract, the additional content below, some REALLY great links I JUST found and THEN if you still feel the same AFTER reading all of it you can accuse that I am simply blowing smoke all you want. I will email the MFC contract to anyone who wants to see it.

    Actually they DO NOT clearly know the pay scenario from the initial agreement they are asked to sign. The pay schedule is mapped out and honored but the value of pay and this "token" and "studio" system are a clear form of bunkum. People can post all the differing (and they DO differ from person to person across the internet) myfreecams token rates all they want. It even says in the contract that the value of these tokens can be changed at any time, for any reason. Since they only define the value of pay by this token system and no real dollar amount in the contract then there actually is no confirmed single rate by which the models can be paid and the amounts promised in recruiting are hardly true to life.

    There are plenty of complaints about Myfreecams from former models and "studio owners" who were involved in it.

    http://www.blurtit.com/q1228895.html

    Notice how scripted all the positive feedback posts about MFC are.

    Also these sites (below are owned and operated by myfreecams):

    http://wiki.myfreecams.com

    They build an entire wiki clone on their own domain just to skirt any online reference material with their own. Tell me what other "honest" companies do that.

    http://myfreecamsscam.com/

    A page NAMED "myfreecamsscam" (using their own wiki clone pages as reference material no less).
    They lie about their BBB rating and complaints on this page. MFC actually has 5 outstanding complaints (not 3) that have yet to be resolved and the company IS NOT validated by the BBB which they fail to mention.
    Also by the token split system described on their own wiki clone it is not possible that the models are being paid "over 60% of all money spent on the site" as it claims on this page. That is deceptive marketing.

    Let us just take a gander at the myfreecamsscam.com site WHOIS shall we?
    ***this is the network solutions WHOIS lookup, not owned by myfreecams or cybertania***

    http://www.networksolutions.com/whoi...eecamsscam.com


    Domain name: MYFREECAMSSCAM.COM

    Registrant Contact:
    Cybertania Inc
    Leo Radvinsky ()

    Fax:
    2123 Warwick Lane
    Glenview, IL 60026
    US

    BAM!!

    WOW,.. he wasn't even smart enough to get a third party protection buffer on his WHOIS. I have to admit, we have to be one stupid ass country to fall for a moron like Leo Radvinsky.
    Oh look, it lists Cybertania Inc as aposed to MFC which lists only MFC by the domain name as the company name for the BBB listing. How does THAT happen I wonder? Looks like Leo forgot a potentially messy detail in this one.

    Let us check Cybertania INC on the BBB, shall we?

    well well well:

    "Your search for - "cybertania" - did not match any Business Names."

    "Your search for - "cybertania inc" - did not match any Business Names."


    So it isn't a validated business. Lets check google for cybertania links, shall we?

    Jesus christ:

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...onPhishPR.mspx

    Wow, what an exciting home page for such a huge and popular company (that hasn't made an update since 2007)

    http://www.cybertania.com/

    OH THIS IS NICE:

    http://www.leoradvinsky.com/

    "Tree-hugger for a day
    August 8th, 2007

    I have always heard of companies “going Green” but never quite understood what it meant. I was worried that it meant replacing the toilet paper at the office with tree leaves or something.

    Apparently, it just means: use as little fossil fuel products as possible (electricity, gasoline, etc) in your business and home life, and for what you absolutely must use, total it up and buy matching carbon offsets from sites like CarbonFund.org.

    It all sounded too heart-warming to pass up so, as of yesterday, my company Cybertania Inc is carbon-neutral for 2007. "

    **and cybertania posts a huge PSA blurb about how they are "carbon neutral" the very same day**

    This is just hilarious,.. he uses the carbon offset scam to claim he is "carbon neutral",.. then POSTS about it happily on a web site UNDER HIS OWN NAME.

    Only in America does a man this stupid AND evil get away with shit.

    Three hits from ripoffreport.com:

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/director...-internet.aspx

    OH LOOK he also owns myfreepaysite.com
    Yeah,.. this is a REAL honest company.

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/director...eepaysite.aspx

    Damn,.. gotta thank you for the challenge tonight. Before I was just convinced MFC was a scam. Now I'm starting to think this may just be satan's own network of online adult entertainment.

    Ok, they have a hoovers listing but anyone can say they are a company and be registered there.

    http://www.hoovers.com/company/Cyber...xctfcyc-1.html

    BAM!!

    http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...m-c177762.html

    Double billing already subscribed and paying members. CLASSY

    and again:

    http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...m-c226521.html

    and,... again:

    http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycom...m-a120135.html

    damn,.. this guy literally makes me want to throw up.

    ratepoint but again anyone can say they have a company and it would get listed here:

    http://directory.ratepoint.com/compa...nc-glenview-il

    OH,.. i actually DID just throw up a little bit in my mouth. just look at THIS:

    I'm posting the google result first (sorry it is long).

    http://www.google.com/search?source=...iw=914&bih=578

    Just check out the third one down:

    http://ultraxxxpasswords.com.w3spy.net/

    "Domain Name: ULTRAXXXPASSWORDS.COM Registrar: MONIKER Registrant [188231]: Leo Radvinsky Cybertania Inc 2123 Warwick Lane Glenview IL 60026 US "

    Then cut the extra suffix and go to the actual page (NWS):

    http://ultraxxxpasswords.com/

    "WE HAVE THE LARGEST NUMBER OF HACKED XXX PASSWORDS!"A


    "Tons of new full-length movies added daily to MyFreePaysite.com!
    Click here to check it out, and just enter your e-mail address and see them free." (DO NOT got to that link BTW)ATOP PAY-SITE!

    As suspected those links are NOT free and you DO NOT just have to enter your email addy. It is a bait and switch that eventually leads to a request for credit card info after getting into your email. Surprise, surprise.
    Wow, it directs to an elaborate series of redirects through myfreepaysite on which one of the pages they claim myfreecams.com is their "partner" website. Funny, a "partner" website owned by the same exact person.

    Well, I have a full pallet of page saves to digest and need to run more source checks on and I think a call to the IL DOC is in order.

    What is interesting here is Cybertania INC was active (at least back in 2004) which means if they were ever actually registered with Illinois they would be on the BBB backlog and the state DOC even if they have dissolved since. But they aren't. I can't wait for the answer to that one.

    That is A LOT of effort to bend the truth and a hell of a lot of wrong doing for a company claiming to be innocent of any wrong doing.

    I don't just do this for the jollies. I do the work and as you can see, I do it well. In just a half hour I unearthed even more proof this is a much bigger scam than even I knew it to be before and surprisingly the guy pulling it off is the biggest moron I've ever seen pull something this elaborate off. Which means the public in general has grown a lot dumber since the days when companies like IEG were pulling this kind of crap.

    And with that:

    http://youtu.be/tuhPPOXnyKo

  31. #24
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by laurielegs View Post
    I know many models who are actually shutting down their members areas for their pay sites. It's really becoming a thing of the past. I have one that I'm closing soon in favor of my other site without a monthly membership where I can simply sell cam shows.
    Tell me more about this. I believe you, it just seems crazy is all.

    Most of the 'Solo Girl' websites have at least a few clear, higher quality videos in their 'Updates' area. The really good multiple model websites will have hundreds of really excellent HD videos of really hot girls doing all kinds of nasty things for 20$ a month.

    For 20$ a month you can get this, instead of maybe paying 50$ for each 20 minutes of grainy, fuzzy, jerky webcam? MFC is horrible in this regard, but they are not alone in having shitty video quality. Most of MFC models are not attractive at all, either.

    And Jesus H Christ, the dogs they pop up on your screen when you try to surf for porn these days. Steammate and Jasmine or whatever they call it are horrible in this respect. Some sagging white trash woman who looks like a grandma suddenly pops in the corner with the sound loud as fuck as she babbles like a fucking idiot to whatever losers are desperate enough to be watching her. And these companies are making money HOW? I would pay money to get those women the hell off my screen, actually.

    I did not like what I saw of the webcam sites when looking into it. I can understand the appeal of having a real live woman on camera for you and you alone, but when the video and sound are atrocious, and the vast majority of the women are not at all attractive (I saw very, very, very few who were appealing at all--but I am picky I admit), I am not getting why this seems to be the wave of the future here.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

  32. #25
    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: AVOID MYFREECAMS and other online camscam and scam sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Tell me more about this. I believe you, it just seems crazy is all.

    Most of the 'Solo Girl' websites have at least a few clear, higher quality videos in their 'Updates' area. The really good multiple model websites will have hundreds of really excellent HD videos of really hot girls doing all kinds of nasty things for 20$ a month.

    For 20$ a month you can get this, instead of maybe paying 50$ for each 20 minutes of grainy, fuzzy, jerky webcam? MFC is horrible in this regard, but they are not alone in having shitty video quality. Most of MFC models are not attractive at all, either.

    And Jesus H Christ, the dogs they pop up on your screen when you try to surf for porn these days. Steammate and Jasmine or whatever they call it are horrible in this respect. Some sagging white trash woman who looks like a grandma suddenly pops in the corner with the sound loud as fuck as she babbles like a fucking idiot to whatever losers are desperate enough to be watching her. And these companies are making money HOW? I would pay money to get those women the hell off my screen, actually.

    I did not like what I saw of the webcam sites when looking into it. I can understand the appeal of having a real live woman on camera for you and you alone, but when the video and sound are atrocious, and the vast majority of the women are not at all attractive (I saw very, very, very few who were appealing at all--but I am picky I admit), I am not getting why this seems to be the wave of the future here.

    THANK YOU!!!

    Besides what I just posted (above) these are all great points. The fact also remains that when models just invest more in their own cam and site or sign on with a camsite with a bit more ETHICS in contracting and video quality, the results, pay out and customer experience are always better.
    IT DOES MAKE MORE MONEY TO DO THINGS RIGHT.

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