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Thread: clips4sale bullshit

  1. #1
    Veteran Member SupaByoch's Avatar
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    Default clips4sale bullshit

    I have to post this because it's pissing me off.

    I sell fetish content on a few different websites, including my own. I've noticed a disturbing trend regarding clips4sale and competition.

    A few months ago my entire youtube channel was wiped out (not the channel or my account, but ALL of the videos were suddenly deleted over a few days for "inappropriate content"). Right after that, I noticed the same thing happening to other ladies in my niche. Several others. What was the common thread with ALL of us? We all had recently changed our links on our youtube videos/channels from our c4s stores to our other stores, because we get better payouts on the other stores.

    Sounds like a coincidence, but I've done some digging.

    Every lady I have talked to in my niche, who also switched from promoting her c4s store to promoting her other stores on youtube, has had her youtube account suspended or at least all the videos deleted. In all cases, these are accounts/videos that had been up for months and years, with no problems. No TOS violation warnings, nothing. Until we switched our links from c4s to other stores...

    It's fairly common knowledge that anyone with the know-how can write a script to essentially target certain videos/accounts on youtube by keywords and repeatedly flag them via multiple IPs / YT accounts, and YT will dump the videos/accounts being flagged, regardless of the content or whether they actually break any rules, just because it got flagged "too much". So people can abuse YT policy to screw up others' promotion, traffic, business.

    If you do a search on youtube right now for a couple of keywords, you'll find that there are over 2500 results for the term clips4sale, but (at last check) only 26 for the term kinkbomb (and some of those are suspended as well). Why is that? Because anyone with links or references to kinkbomb gets their videos deleted and/or accounts suspended. This causes a big drop in traffic for those who lose their YT videos/accounts, not just on their content stores, but general website traffic, live calls/cam sales, etc..

    It's too much of a coincidence. Clearly c4s has begun to feel the effects of competition offering better service to content producers, so rather than try to compete, they just use shady tactics to hurt a LOT of people's overall search rank, traffic, business. Youtube accounts for a LOT of traffic for our business, our overall search rank, and bottom line: income.

    I'm not sure what can be done about this, but it's pissed me off enough to want to write about it publicly and see what happens.

    Youtube / google are completely unconcerned about the wholesale abuse of their retarded flagging / removal policy. There is no way to contact them about it or ask for a review or reconsideration. They ignore any attempts to ask questions, no matter what channels you use. Basically, once an asshole over-flags you, you're just fucked. And the assholes know it.

    My next thought is, hey, why not find out how to make my own script and do the same thing to c4s? Get all THEIR youtube links mass-deleted. Why not? I know that stooping to their level is unethical, but at this point, I have to say I don't really care.

    C4s screws us over left and right. Their customer service is nonexistent. Their payouts SUCK. Their website sucks. They're having far too many chargebacks these days, resulting in lost revenue for producers, pirated content, more lost revenue for producers. And so on. And now they're also outright attacking our business in an attempt to keep it all for themselves. Not cool.

    Something needs to happen...


    tessarubyxoxo: somehow i ended up on SW's homepage.... then i clicked on "forums." & i was in fucking narnia.


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    Moderator Aurora_Sunset's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Damn... I just cannot believe the lengths some people go to for sake of competition. If your shit was good, you wouldn't need to worry about competition. Up the quality of your service or get lost. Having some first-grader personal vendetta against a girl who switches services - christ.... What happened to a free and open market?

    Thank you for sharing this. I'm sorry this has happened to you and a bunch of other girls. Hopefully others can somehow prevent it from happening to them now that we're finding this out.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member SupaByoch's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    ^What seems to be working for a few (for now), is to post youtube videos without links or references to a content store. It doesn't drive nearly as much traffic as a linked video will, but it does help.

    This didn't happen to just a handful of girls that I know either. It's anyone who had started using other content stores (even if they still use c4s too) and started promoting the other stores over c4s. It's actually a lot of people. Even the ExtraLunchMoney channel was suspended, as well as Kinkbomb's channel, a blogger who essentially acts as a group promo guy for my niche, AND even some videos I had favorited or put on my playlist just because I liked them (they weren't even my videos). Clearly this is a malicious script at work.

    It's so obvious what is happening, and we have no way to fight it at all, thanks to youtube/google's complete disregard for this blatant abuse of THEIR site.

    The more I think about it, the more I want to figure out how to do this myself and delete c4s from youtube. Fuckers deserve it. LOL


    tessarubyxoxo: somehow i ended up on SW's homepage.... then i clicked on "forums." & i was in fucking narnia.


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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    This sounds terrible. I've had a problem with YouTube because they flagged a video I posted (nothing sexual)but I flagged a video that was literally taking photos from a website and making fun of them (and posting names and addresses). Nothing happened to that video.

  5. #5
    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    so maybe clips4sale dropped a DMCA on the videos? Another thing may be that the youtube TOS might have a violation issue if the commercial end is leading to adult content. That is a maybe though as i haven't gone over the last two changes to it.

    Lets run some data.

    clips4sale.com has a privacy cap on their whois and BBB has no listing for this 'Suncoast Productions LTD' (just like cybertania/MFC only thay have no privacy cap).

    AHH, this explains it, they are a UK company.

    Suncoast Productions LTD
    Dept 2 unit 9d1 Carcroft Enterprise Pk
    Carcroft, Doncaster DN680D
    England

    interesting, it seems to be a storefront company:

    http://www.sun-tropic.com/

    lots of HTML base like MFC

    What is their contract like?

  6. #6
    Veteran Member SupaByoch's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    ^It's not a DMCA - we would've gotten a copyright infringement notice on our deleted videos instead of "content inappropriate".

    What they're doing is using a bot to flag the videos for "spam" over and over using multiple accounts and proxy IPs, until youtube finally deletes them. Youtube automatically deletes any video that gets flagged a certain number of times. Using these bots (and from what I've found it's a simple install and customizing a firefox add-on), one can literally take down hundreds of videos at a stroke.

    The videos being removed are NOT owned by clips4sale and are NOT a part of the c4s contract. They are vlogs and little teasers we create as part of our online marketing efforts, to promote OUR businesses. C4s obviously enjoyed a LOT of traffic and free marketing thanks to content producers linking to c4s stores on youtube, and now they're feeling the pinch since many of us have switched our marketing efforts. We all still sell content on c4s, just changed our own marketing efforts to point to the places where we get better payouts and better TREATMENT.

    C4s responds by sabotaging us rather than improving their service. I've found it's really easy to do the youtube flag/deletion thing. Astonishingly easy. No wonder c4s is doing this rather than invest some actual effort into their service. ehh

    The upside of this is that it's a clear sign that c4s is going down. Increased chargebacks, nonexistent customer service, no site improvements in aaaages, and now stooping to sabotage the marketing efforts of others all indicate a sinking ship. I look forward to the day I remove all my content from that shitty site (which will be sooner not later) because I have my own content store now and it's doing rather well


    Oh, as for the company itself, they may have a non-US front but they are US-based. I know this for sure.


    tessarubyxoxo: somehow i ended up on SW's homepage.... then i clicked on "forums." & i was in fucking narnia.


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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Damn that is nasty.
    Sounds A LOT like what blueblood and APN are doing to models on facebook currently with that good ol facebook image reporting system. So many recently walked out on APN and the blueblood affiliates and now they have a major bug up their ass on an image reporting rampage over facebook since that was their promotional main stay for so long. It seems to take just one image report on FB and they must have a bot taking down the photos becuase plenty of non nudes and even basic images with no sexual or suggestive content at all get taken down. So there is no way actual people are even involved in reviewing the complaints. recently a video was posted on youtube about how facebook was still keeping the images on their server after being reported and removed. They stopped doing it but up to a few months ago facebook would still keep the image at the same source URL. I wonder if this would also be possible with removed youtube vids. Maybe not as I think removing the video from it's presented url changes the source url on FTP.
    It amazes me these companies waste time lie that and this is pretty low even for a UK company.

    I salute the way you are doing things for yourself and your contract knowledge. I wish more people took that kind of initiative but it seems that bitching about people who present alternatives and bitching over models jumping ship when things are shitty is more fun for too many people.
    I guess it is just better for most to sit on their thumbs, bitch and whine.

    Do you have a link on their US front? I'll keep searching but i can't find one. It may be behind their privacy cap but they could just elect not to respond to it.
    Last edited by twigs; 07-04-2011 at 05:27 AM.

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Hey there SupaByoch,

    It is disturbing to find such accusations displayed when this is the first time we have caught wind of this concern. C4S support is available 24/7 and the owner of C4S encourages individuals like you SupaByoch to call him if ever there is a problem. His cell phone number is displayed inside every studios admin and for good measure I am posting Neil’s phone number here so that you and anyone else can call him. He may not answer right away but leave a message and he will certainly get back to you!

    Neil : 727)804 3005

    In regards to your claims relating to YouTube, it is not uncommon for YT to ban content displayed without reasonable explanation and they can do so regardless of the content nature because it is their site and they can do whatever they want. It’s frustrating for all those who use it to promote themselves but rest assure it is NOT from malicious action taken by C4S causing your content to be flagged on YT.

    We here at C4S encourage self-promotion and are thankful to studio owners being so involved with their stores and using tools such as YT and twitter to generate their own traffic. C4S does not have the available time that this post claims to search for content that can be requested to be flagged on YT. And has no desire too either.

    C4S has recently doubled its customer support staff to handle the increasing demand for assistance as well as completely replicated the entire site on a backup system in a different location which is in the final stages of completion (taken nearly 2yrs to complete) to ensure that there is NEVER down time. It is and always will be Clips4Sale number one priority to take care of both studios and customers but are well aware that it is impossible to keep everyone happy. Clips4Sale is always here to assist and if you find yourself hitting a brick wall with the support staff then skip the queue and call Neil direct seems you now have his personal cell number.

    I wish there was something more that could be said that would put your mind at ease but unfortunately there is nothing further I can do to assure you.

    If you have further concerns then please contact support at where all communication is documented and not able to be neglected.
    Or you are free to email me direct at jo @ clips4sale.com and I will do everything I can to assist you.

    On behalf of C4S I sincerely apologize for the issues you are encountering with YT as well as your experience with C4S support. You have only been a studio since August of 2010 but it is important to build solid business relationships so if there is anyway in which we can rectify this please let me know.

    Thanks for your time and have a great weekend!

    Regards Jo aka Kiwigirl

    C4S open since 2003
    10's of thousands of active studios
    Over 3 million video clips and growing.

  9. #9
    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    LOL. a direct line to the owner of C4S?! Your kidding right?! C4s isnt big enough to have it's own PR? That would make your company a lot like MFC then. Just another skeevy one man operation with no real support or PR process. Classy.
    A good point about the adult entertainment industry:

    http://youtu.be/2TdEYqOZY_E

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    LOL. a direct line to the owner of C4S?! Your kidding right?! C4s isnt big enough to have it's own PR? That would make your company a lot like MFC then. Just another skeevy one man operation with no real support or PR process. Classy.

    Hey Twigs

    I would be considered the PR person for the company as I am their consultant and have been in the online adult industry coming up 14ys.

    Clips4Sale has numerous employees on staff. The current staff count is 24 and that does not include projects and services such as the legal team, 2 accountants and other such services. And the company continues to grow with every new upload hence why the upgrade in servers and continuous increase in staff.

    So rest assure this is not a team of one. A company such as Clips4Sale.com who has thousands of active studios that are paid out on time every month respects their studios and realize that it would not be where it is without all those studios.
    And that is why Neil(CEO) is confident in providing his cell number to those he does business with.

    If you have any further questions please don't ever hesitate to contact me either via my email jo @ clips4sale.com

    Otherwise support is 24/7 for customers and 8am-8pm EST 7 days a week for studio support. All contact info including toll free phone number can be found here --->

    I hope this information helps

  11. #11
    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    ok, lets start with what should be an EASY request for any company with an ETHICAL contracting and pay method. Show us the contract you have your cam models sign.
    A good point about the adult entertainment industry:

    http://youtu.be/2TdEYqOZY_E

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    RULE NUMBER ONE !!!!....never direct link......only advertise your own site....that way you can do all your advertising see if your youtube only advertised your own site...then everytime you changed who you did business with you wouldnt have to change EACH account just your webiste......I learned that a long time ago .....I do searches and girl leave old blogs and facebooks they havent used in years still advertising that site. my two cents
    I feel like im in the French Revolution!!!!!! "Sooooo Many heads sooooo little time!!"


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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    ok, lets start with what should be an EASY request for any company with an ETHICAL contracting and pay method. Show us the contract you have your cam models sign.
    Clips4Sale.com does not have a cam site so what you are asking is irrelevant. And with that said, I rest my case as there is apparently huge misunderstanding here. Clips4Sale.com is basically a hosting and credit card processing site where individuals can upload and sell their own content.

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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    strange then that there is this 'live cams' link on clips4sale.com which goes to a website OWNED by clips4sale:

    http://amateurfetishcams.com/?nats=N...wLjAuMC4w&w=48
    A good point about the adult entertainment industry:

    http://youtu.be/2TdEYqOZY_E

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Amatuer fetish cam is NOT owned by c4s, Thats Privatecamz/camworld.


    I think everyone is going overboard and really reaching. Direct your videos to your own site if theres really a problem. Other than that dont just slander a company like that.

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by CamWhore View Post
    Amatuer fetish cam is NOT owned by c4s, Thats Privatecamz/camworld.


    I think everyone is going overboard and really reaching. Direct your videos to your own site if theres really a problem. Other than that dont just slander a company like that.
    Hi there, you are correct.....AmateurFetishCams.com is a white label site of CamWorld.com that many of C4S performers are featured on.
    In regards to slander, unfortunately it is common and comes with the territory of success however it is sincerely appreciated that you voiced your opinion.

    To those interested, there is 24/7 customer support and studio support is 8am-8pm EST 7 days a week so don't ever hesitate in contacting support if ever needed!!
    There should never been a need to turn to a forum to report a complaint when anyone can contact support or call Neil direct. You can't get better studio support than that! (I don't see any claimed competing sites offering the CEO's cell phone# lol)

    Happy Hump Day everyone!

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    God/dess BlkSharpie's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    There are so many scams and shady companies that is can be easy to be dubious about a company and how they do business...

    But I will say, in all my yeas on C4S, they have not given me any reason to doubt them. Im sorry Twigs, but I kind of cringed when you got on them for the cam site...its known, and has been mentioned on here before that C4S closed its own cam site and what is there now is a whitelabel for Privatecams/Camworld.

    Definitely good to question, but definitely good to also do research before calling someone out on bs, on things that are already known as not bs.

    Anyway...I can vouch for their CS...I have emailed them so many times, especially when I first started, that I would begin my emails with "Im so sorry to bug you again!!!" and they always got back to me asap, were personable, patient and even humourous about me contacting them all the time

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  21. #18
    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    It is kind of hard to call anything slander when no claims have been made. I asked for contracting information.

    Also, neither of the companies mentioned (Privatecamz/camworld) have any available information for what kind of companies they are or where they originate (US/UK).

    As they are cam sites, my earlier question would apply.

    Do these sites provide fair contracting and are their contracts available for public view?
    If a cam site can at least show what contract they sign their models too it goes a LONG way to disarming or validating any concern or question about them.

    So we are still at square one for the veracity of any information provided about them as to who owns what and their affiliation with clips4sale.
    A good point about the adult entertainment industry:

    http://youtu.be/2TdEYqOZY_E

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Your earlier question applies...but not to C4S since they are not a cam site and do not run or own Privatecamz/Camworld. That is something you would need to ask them directly. Your question to their affiliation is as we said...they are a whitelabel...they market it like any other affiliate markets another website...but affiliates do not own or run the companies they promote.

    I dont do affiliate/whitelabel marketing..theres a lot of info about that here on SW though, definitely something to do a search on and do some research to find your answers on affiliations and such.

    Im sure if you request the contract of the cam sites you are interested in, like with any other cam site, they would send it to you. Its usually sent to you when you sign up to work the site...and you have to agree and sign to it/submit the paperwork before you can start working on the site, along with your ID etc info.

    C4S has one for those who sell clips on their site, which like any other adult site, you get when you sign up. Standard operating procedure.

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    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Contracted agreements are either public domain without agreement or registration for signature or they are not legitimate. If a document is legitimate, the public can see it. This is part of a lil thing called the freedom of information act. But even before that piece of legislature it was the right of any American to review documentation with other parties or the public in general before agreeing to the documentation or contracting. The same holds for public protections legislation in the UK where some of these sites originate. A contract can be unfair, like the suicide girls contract for instance. But at least it is available to the public to see that it is. I ask about cam site contract a lot because they most commonly are the ones telling models they can not let others see the contracts they are signing. As well the contracts contain vague and ungrounded terms that can often be used to abuse the agreement. I may just pass along some questions to the "Neil". What is his email?
    A good point about the adult entertainment industry:

    http://youtu.be/2TdEYqOZY_E

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Well, this is an exciting thread with many good lessons.

    I've had some of these kind of issues with Google and Facebook, was just beginning to start up with YT, but decided to cool my heals a bit, because I was a one person site and it was a 15 hour a day/7 days a week job. My experiences made me realize the importance of not relying too heavily on any system that can just delete your content so easily, which was never really my problem cuz I was all about my own little website that was never much of a threat to very many other competitors. But, when FB abandoned a feature that was most crucial to my online marketing efforts, it was somewhat crushing to my regular source of income. I was way too dependent on them.

    Then Google, I have some serious suspicions about them blocking searches that would have normally lead users to my website. I was running Groupon style deals on my website and had been averaging 200 web hits a day from the SEO on my website alone, not traffic driving from social media, e blasts or back links. One day, I changed the tags/keywords and within 2 days, I was getting absolutely nothing for a week from web searches. This is after a solid 2 years of consistent web search traffic. The first day, I thought, well, I suppose it could happen, but after a week, I just knew it had something to do with the new tags/keywords. So I immediately went back to the keywords/tags from before and my unique users went back to normal after a few days.

    I heard that Google had bought out Groupon and simply knowing that, I immediately became suspicious that they could easily squash competition through the search engines if they want to. I have no way to prove this, but my instincts tell me this is very likely. I can only say that it is a suspicion.

    I think it's very commendable that C4S has a PR person on top of these things, and it makes me realize how important it is to have a person on hand for these situations when you are running a serious web biz. But, we need to spread the word about suspicions, because we are living in a world that needs checks and balances ... nothings perfect and there are always risks, I suppose. Not sure the issue was calling for the accusation of slander yet.

    I don't think anything said was slanderous. Slander is when you lie ... make false statements that you KNOW are false. The thread was obviously an expression of suspicion and attempts to discover the possibilities. The accusations were well thought out and based on valid points. Perhaps it is best to always consciously state that something you haven't totally proven yet is a suspicion and back up with the whys.

    However, before accusing someone of slander, understand that when someone's hard work and livelihood are obliterated in a blink of an eye, they might just phrase something that might be somewhat off the mark. We are not robots. We are human.

    Just sayin. But, I feel your frustration SupaByoch! Hope you can get back on track sooon!

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Maybe I misunderstood twigs... So they refused to send you the contract?

    Neils phone number is in this thread.... Have you called him already? On the site are phone numbers and emails for support. I'm really surprised honestly that no one from C4S has replied to you. They are usually very good about that.

    Very weird too that they refused to let you see the contract when you asked for it. I wonder why...

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    I would like to first apologize as the sign up page for studios on C4S was recently updated and it was never noticed during testing that the sign up process didn't have the terms of service agreement available to the potential studio to review.

    This is not at all intentional and is human error in which is being corrected and believe to be implemented within the next 24-48 hours. It is sincerely appreciated that this was brought to our attention as it is a VERY important factor for any business to display.

    Thank you for making a point of this, with as many studios C4S has it is easy to over look things but rest assure it is being fixed.

    Clips4Sale.com has been in business since 2003 and has up held a reliable reputation which is apparent from those on this thread whom are on their own accord defending the company in which they have done business with or currently still is. To those in which I am referring too, your support is much appreciated and as with everyone else you are available to contact support or Neil directly at any time.

    I will certainly post and let it be known once the terms of service agreement has been implemented and once again on behalf of the company I sincerely apologize for this inconvenience and confusion.

    Stay tuned and thanks again

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  30. #24
    Senior Member twigs's Avatar
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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by BlkSharpie View Post
    Maybe I misunderstood twigs... So they refused to send you the contract?

    Neils phone number is in this thread.... Have you called him already? On the site are phone numbers and emails for support. I'm really surprised honestly that no one from C4S has replied to you. They are usually very good about that.

    Very weird too that they refused to let you see the contract when you asked for it. I wonder why...
    I email the same formal requests to any website if someone tries to convince me it is on the level. So far no reply from the ones you have provided. Doesn't mean they are refusing. Maybe they simply do not answer or check their contact email. Same for the formal WHOIS info requests. No big surprise. I have yet to find any cam site that is 100% on the level or any site that responds to formal WHOIS requests. just more of the same.
    A good point about the adult entertainment industry:

    http://youtu.be/2TdEYqOZY_E

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    Default Re: clips4sale bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by twigs View Post
    I email the same formal requests to any website if someone tries to convince me it is on the level. So far no reply from the ones you have provided. Doesn't mean they are refusing. Maybe they simply do not answer or check their contact email. Same for the formal WHOIS info requests. No big surprise. I have yet to find any cam site that is 100% on the level or any site that responds to formal WHOIS requests. just more of the same.
    I didnt provide any contact info...the only way I know if is what is provided directly on their website. Granted, its been awhile since Ive had to email them for anything...but they were always prompt and personable.

    Its disheartening that you've called and emailed and have not been able to get ahold of anyone and no response. Im guessing yuou dont have a studio with them if you havnt seen a contract...are you trying to open one?

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