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    Default Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    They speak for you ladies. Enjoy.

    I like this:

    WHAT THIS WEBSITE IS NOT FOR:

    -- Defending pornography, stripping, and/or prostitution (if you send me any of your knee-jerk lame excuses such as "Women freely choose", "Porn reduces rape", "Freedom of expression", or "you pro-censorship anti-sex prude", etc., your e-mails and comments will be ignored -- I will feel sorry for you though, as you are ultimately using those excuses to hide the real defenses that underlie your thoughts such as "my right to jerk off to porn and/or be selfish", etc., and you are giving up on your humanity -- there's nothing more beautiful in this world than being genuinely human). Pornography and prostitution are indefensible. The level of harms done to women and children is way too high! If you want to stupidly defend pornography, there are plenty of forums and blogs for that on the Net. Come back when you're less self-centered!

    -- Trying to wrap a defense of pornography, prostitution, and/or stripping in some kind of a "Fuck me" feminism; trying to show "empowerment" where there's none (your e-mails and comments will be ignored).

    -- Accusing us of being "anti-choice." I and many other feminists realized that women in the sex industry do not have any "real choice" in this society. Most of them have an economic necessity and a history of sexual abuse (There are plenty of studies that prove that -- check on this website). Around about 90% of them would rather leave the sex industry if they had the option. Some already have and decried its abuse (check on this website). Should we protect the right of a small 10% who'd rather stay, the rights of the few women who make a lot of money out of it instead of the rights of the overwhelming majority of prostituted women who never got the chance to make a meaningful choice and are sustaining unbearable violence and injury? I don't think so. So, do not even try to magnify the few isolated cases "of money and empowerment" here and there, like the mainstream media does. It doesn't work.

    Those just are so...well, THEY know...YOU don't!

    B

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    So... guess we know what she caught her husband doing last weekend?

    Rimshot!

    (I do claim use of the word feminist on myself and would have the best arguments against that ill-informed drivel... but hey, she's not reading emails from us stupid hoes, amirite? Oh wait sorry, I mean us victims of our funny uncles and pimps. Damnit, I never had a funny uncle! I'll just dwell on the huge amounts of warm fuzzy irony contained in that snippet you posted. So funny how our "feminist" "defenders" love saying hush hush you poor lil abused fair weakling, I'll have opinions for you, rest your itsy bitsy head now.)

    Edit: does she mean we're "decrying" cam issues on THIS website, SW? If so, remind me to never criticize the government or she'll say someone needs to take away our right to vote!

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Well, I am so feminist it is almost ridiculous, BUT, I would be defined by radical feminism as a pornographer, exploiter, etc.

    I believe the worst parts of feminism make women out to be worse than some of the patriarchal bullshit.

    If a woman cannot healthily choose to pose naked and sell the images, then something is wrong with your feminism. If a woman is automatically sick/exploited/abused/etc. for doing whatever she feels is right (so long as it does not inhibit the rights of others), then your feminism is twisted.

    It's such a double edged sword to think that you know better for someone than they can know for themselves, since where does one draw a line?

    B

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    Senior Member Shameless Vixen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Dworkin and MacKinnon "feminism" at its finest. Pffffft. Hey femi-nazis:

    KISS MY MULTIPLE-GRADUATE-DEGREE, PROFESSIONAL-CAREER-HAVING, STILL-LOVE-DOING-SEX-WORK ASS!

    If only there were more lions about...

    So many right wing Christians, so few lions...






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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    It's such a double edged sword to think that you know better for someone than they can know for themselves, since where does one draw a line?

    B
    I think its here that you hit it spot on. Ever since the dawn of woman, she's been told what's best for her - from chastity belts to arranged marriages - because where would we be if women took charge of their own sexuality? Yet oddly, we see the very same argument from the patriarchal and radical feminist side of the fence, something they should be thinking about...

    Now, we all know there are indeed abuse situations going on (particularly in impoverished countries and by the way... ever noticed a huge correlation between a country's per capita income and woman's rights?) but honestly, lumping that in the same bag with women who do it as a choice (regardless of the author's theory that it can only be because some man twisted our titties... er...brains) is water-muddling rhetoric for the couch activist.

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    Senior Member Shameless Vixen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by SybilVain View Post
    (particularly in impoverished countries and by the way... ever noticed a huge correlation between a country's per capita income and woman's rights?)
    There is a direct correlation. There is also a statistical correlation between laws regarding women's sexuality and sex in general becoming increasing restrictive as women gain additional rights and improved legal status. It's the last vestige of control that men try to exert as women gain freedom. The fact that McKinnon-esque feminists espouse the same views is laughable, because it proves that they, themselves can only react to patriarchal control by becoming patriarchal in nature. If you have the opportunity, point that out to one of them sometime...the reaction is priceless.
    So many right wing Christians, so few lions...






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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    just your everyday standard mainstream radical feminist bullshit. nothing new to see here.
    Last edited by tinydancer23; 07-24-2011 at 03:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    I have to agree with the fact that almost nobody gets into it out of totally free choice. Number 3 for me.. Im addicted to the money.=]
    Americanmade18 on most sites.

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    Well, I am so feminist it is almost ridiculous, BUT, I would be defined by radical feminism as a pornographer, exploiter, etc.

    I believe the worst parts of feminism make women out to be worse than some of the patriarchal bullshit.

    If a woman cannot healthily choose to pose naked and sell the images, then something is wrong with your feminism. If a woman is automatically sick/exploited/abused/etc. for doing whatever she feels is right (so long as it does not inhibit the rights of others), then your feminism is twisted.

    It's such a double edged sword to think that you know better for someone than they can know for themselves, since where does one draw a line?

    B
    couldn't have said it better!

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    B

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    My new favorite wacky anti-porn site....



    B

    Gotta love this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Porn and Choice
    University professor Rebecca Whisnant has a great statement this one, which we'll quote first:

    “We need to think and talk somewhat differently about women who participate in the sex industry. Yes, many are coerced. Many are not coerced, but their choices to participate are made under far less than ideal conditions and result in significant harm to themselves. Finally, there may be some women (a relative few, to be sure) who choose participation in the sex industry from a meaningful range of options and who experience that participation as at least tolerable, and at best empowering. Certainly there are women who report this to be true of them, and while we many often suspect that a level of denial is operative, we need not assume a priori that denial or dissociation explains every such case. Rather we can grant, at least for the sake of argument, that such cases exist. The next question is, what of it? In particular, it seems to me that a useful next question would be this: on whose backs are they having this tolerable-to-empowering experience? What are the costs to women in general, and to the overwhelming majority of prostituted women in particular, of allowing this opportunity to those few (by definition relatively privileged) women who might feely and sincerely choose it for themselves? (Not For Sale, page 24)

    Okay, there are several main reasons that women get involved in porn, stripping, and prostitution. The following seven are the most common scenarios:

    1. Childhood Sexual Abuse

    A girl is molested, or raped, sometimes repeatedly, most commonly by a father or stepfather. The Department of Justice reports that 44% of rape victims were younger than 18 when assaulted. Sexually abused children are about 4 times more likely to develop a psychiatric disorder, and these typically include post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, self-mutilation, or a dissociative disorder. At any rate, there is inevitably a destructive effect on the girl’s developing psyche. Survivors commonly describe feeling disconnected from their bodies and from themselves... a loss of control...unbearable shame...and confusion about sexuality.

    Of course, not each and every sexual abuse survivor becomes a porn star, because that would equal 1 of every 6 American women. The numbers are that high. But researchers in the field find that frequently, survivors can directly trace their entry into porn, stripping, or prostitution back to their previous abuse. Their first sexual experiences have taught them that their primary value in life is their body and what others want to do with it. Or they learn that they are dirty little whores and they might as well live the part. As Taylor Lee, sexual abuse survivor and ex-stripper explains:

    "The first time I had sex, I was raped by someone close enough to my family to call my mother 'mom.' Now, I was sure what I was for. I knew that my greatest asset was my sexuality and knew how badly it was desired. I also realized that I had little control over my sexuality, that it could be taken at will. It was easy to give it for profit; at least then I was in control." (Not For Sale, page 5

    Legendary porn performer Traci Lords recently linked a rape she experienced as a 10-year old with her underage entry into the porn industry. And America’s porn sweetheart, Jenna Jameson, has also reported several rapes during her adolescence. Can a truly free choice be made in response to childhood trauma? We think not.

    2. Homelessness

    If a teen girl becomes homeless, either escaping an abusive home or being thrown out of one, she has two pressing concerns: food and shelter. Decent, well-paying jobs that cover the rent are in short supply for a homeless teenage girl to procure, especially if she has not completed high school. Generally, you need a marketable skill, access to showers and clean clothing, and a physical address to list on the job application. But the girl quickly realizes, on her own or through the encouragement of a street pimp, that she indeed has a marketable skill: she can get paid in cash to perform sexual acts with strangers. (See Anitra’s story: )

    Researchers in multiple studies have consistently found that the average age of entry into prostitution falls between 13 and 19, the years when most of you were doing your history homework and picking out your prom dress. As one girl prostituting in Seattle put it, "We were all molested and sexually abused as children, don't you know that? We ran to get away. They didn't want us in the house anymore. We were thrown out, thrown away. We've been on the street since we were 12, 13, 14." (Not For Sale, page 114) Frequently, pornography is also made of prostitutes, often without their consent. In Farley and Lynne's study of prostituted women in British Columbia, 67% percent of subjects reported this happening to them. The resulting pictures and videos are useful to pimps as blackmail evidence, should the woman ever attempt to leave her situation.

    Is a homeless teenage girl trying to stay alive by engaging in prostitution and pornography truly exercising her free will and making an uncoerced career choice? We think not.

    3. Drug Addiction

    A woman or girl addicted to drugs requires a reliable, steady cash flow to maintain her habit. If she's a corporate lawyer, or Whitney Houston, then no big deal. However, if she's homeless or poor or unskilled, she is far more likely to resort to prostitution, porn or stripping than to try to finance her addiction making $7.50 an hour at Wal-Mart. As previously mentioned, selling sex is the one marketable skill that every women shares in a culture like ours. We all know that if times get tough enough, we can likely find a buyer for our body.

    But just like you probably didn’t get shitfaced drunk before you took your SAT’s or sat for the big job interview, we don’t expect people on drugs to make sensible, binding career decisions. Can a woman in the grip of a chemical addiction exercise free will or well-reasoned career choice? We think not.
    TO BE CONTINUED. NEXT MESSAGE.
    Last edited by Bambalina; 08-21-2011 at 08:21 AM.

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Mostly-naked in Public on Rollerblades With a String of Pearls in Daytime Batman says:

    Bitches be hatin'

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Oh looks like somebody drank the Dworkin flavored Kool-Aid. As a feminist I have not patience for these sort. The fact that most are unwilling to engage in any form of reasoned discussion causes me to put them in the same category as the WBBC, angry nut jobs the lot of them. Now I have money make and men to humiliate.

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Continued!

    4. Trafficking

    Girls living in poor countries – think Nepal, Philipines, Ukraine – are being sold by their families into brothels at alarming rates. The family gets a steady income, the girl gets raped 15 to 20 times a day by middle-aged sex tourists seeking virgin pussy. Alternatively, girls seeking jobs abroad – because none exist in their home country – will answer ads to become hostesses, waitresses, or “entertainers.” When they reach their destinations, they discover that they are expected to prostitute in gang-controlled brothels, or strip in gang-controlled clubs. Or both. If they need convincing to adjust to these circumstances, gang members are brought in to beat them, rape them, lock them up, and destroy their passports.
    Finally, some girls (and boys) are simply kidnapped or stolen and forced into the sex industry after being raped and beaten into submission. Trafficked women are also brought to America to work the strip club circuit. This is happening all over the world right this minute, but feel free to visit the website for Coalition Against Trafficking in Women () if you require further proof. Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times has also written extensively on this subject.
    Can a trafficked or kidnapped girl freely or consensually participate in her new job? We think not.
    Frequently, scenarios 1 through 4 become intertwined, making "choice" an ever more dubious possibility. The sexual abuse victim becomes a runaway. The runaway becomes drug-addicted. The addict loses her home. And so on.
    5. Unaware

    Somewhat more rare, but increasing in popularity, are cases of pornography being made of women who are unaware of what's happening. Girls and women have been videotaped in restrooms, in changing rooms, in tanning salons, or in their OWN BEDS without their knowledge, and the footage posted online. Tiny cameras hidden in briefcases take "upskirt" photos later posted to voyeur websites. Boyfriends and husbands will also take consensual naked pics of their partners, but then send them to amateur porn sites, or to Hustler, without their partners' knowledge...or they do this after a breakup in order to get revenge. Finally, over half of prostitutes interviewed for several research studies reported having pornography made of them by johns.
    Free choice? Yeah, right.
    6. Socialization/No Other Options

    An increasingly common scenario...
    Say you're an average, all-American girl, born in 1987. That makes you 18 in 2005. At age five, you watched skinny women shake their asses around in the "Baby Got Back" video, which played on MTV approximately every 15 minutes during the summer of 1992. You and your little friends copied those moves and your parents thought it was so darn cute that they got out the camcorder.
    At age eleven, the Spice Girls were your idols. They showed that you could achieve Girl Power by looking hot, staying skinny, and showing lots of leg. You thought Ginger Spice was the hottest, and pleaded to dye your hair red. When you got to 7th grade, you were sexually harassed by your classmates, something you shared with 83% of the female student population (Harris Interactive Poll, 2001). See, your breasts had developed rather quickly, and boys dared each other to sneak up behind you and grab them. Sometimes they succeeded, but the teachers never saw. Other girls did, and spread rumors about what a slut you were. For a while you had no friends, and you developed a quiet eating disorder. You never had a sex ed. class, because your state's Department of Education didn't require it. By 8th grade graduation, you heard that all the popular girls were giving blow jobs after school. Their boyfriends expected this after two weeks of going out.
    High school was a little better. Luckily, you never got date-raped, but your best friend did. She didn't do anything about it, though, because everyone knew she'd had a major crush on the rapist. Meanwhile, IM was the hot new thing, and you were busy chatting away and fending off requests to send sexy photos of yourself to the pervy guys in the chat rooms. You lost your virginity at a party in 10th grade but never spoke to the guy afterwards. You heard later that he'd assessed you as "fat thighs, great tits." Your guy friends were all bragging about jerking off to porn, and you quickly realized that you had to act like that was no big deal. That's what all the other girls did.
    By 11th grade all the girls were wearing the Playboy bunny chokers and Porn Star shirts and shorts with "Naughty" written across the ass. Guys who dated a lot of girls called themselves "pimps," and you and your friends went through a phase when you called each other "whore," as a term of affection. One of the most popular guy's dads had promised to hire him a stripper for his 18th birthday party, according to the latest rumor. You watched girls get drunk at parties and make out with each other while the guys cheered and took photos. You saw American Pie and The Girl Next Door and countless reality TV shows where women paraded around in hot pants and thong swimsuits and even wedding gowns, competing for fabulous prizes and/or husbands. Senior year, a new Hooters restaurant opened on the highway near your school and became the cool new hangout. Sometimes you ended up there with friends after the game, and your Uncle Jim hosted his 45th birthday party there.
    But then you turned 18 and graduated. Your family can't really afford college for you, and your grades were never that stellar anyway. So you do some neighborhood babysitting, and some lifeguarding at the lake, and try to imagine your next move. This girl you know says she's going to audition at the Glass Slipper strip club on Route 39 – "always hiring new dancers!" – and invites you to come with. Your summer boyfriend thinks it's a really hot idea.
    You say you need to think about it.
    All of your ideas about love and sexuality have been shaped by a lifetime of semi-sleazy, exploitative experiences. But you think of them as normal, just like you think porn is a natural part of everyone’s life. You've never been raped, but you've grown up in a rape culture. Time and again, it's been clearly demonstrated that you, and all womankind, are really only useful for one thing. Luckily, this one thing happens to be what men will pay you top dollar for. And right now, you’re unemployed.
    If you decide to become a stripper, are you really choosing freely? Or are you simply taking the next logical step in your American-girl socialization process, a track fashioned by the marketers, magazine editors, and movie producers, upon which you were placed as a young child?
    Did you ever really have a choice? We think not.
    7. Total Free Choice

    We believe this scenario represents the tiniest minority of prostitutes, strippers, and porn performers, but we’re willing to grant that a few cases exist. These are the women who had an array of equally enticing options – college scholarship, live-in nanny position, radio DJ, paralegal, direct marketing representative, contestant on Star Search…or the sex industry. They chose the sex industry for its high salary, flexible hours, advancement potential, and considerable hipster cred. They are happy and fulfilled in their careers. We know this because they are always telling us how happy and fulfilled they are in the titillating first-person columns they write for Marie Claire and Cosmo and Maxim and The Nation. Because the media loves the "happy hooker" story, and because homeless meth addicts and teenage runaways don't tend to write grammatical prose, theirs is the scenario most commonly presented to the American public. We admit it's possible, but we know it ain't common.
    Free choice? Well, that's what they're telling us.
    So now you've read about the seven most common scenarios that lead women into the sex industry. Perhaps you are even willing to admit that in the first 5 scenarios, free will in the John Locke or David Hume sense is not clearly evident. In scenarios 6 and 7, one can make an argument that some choice does exist. Following the pro-porn argument that most liberals adopt, using porn and buying hookers is fair and square if they freely and joyfully consented...but uncool if they haven't.
    However...
    When you're using porn, or hiring an escort, or watching a stripper, how can you actually know which girl you're getting? Do the girls wear labels that say “Need the cash for my heroin addiction” or “Quit my career in finance to do this instead”? Do the pornographers provide mini bios of the stars? No, they don’t. You have no idea who you’re getting, Sure, you might be lucky once or twice and rent a video featuring a grad-school dropout, or score a lapdance from the ex-teacher who decided to try a second career as a stripper just for kicks. But we estimate that the majority of the time, you will be watching rape and incest survivors on the screen and stage. And if you’ve ever enjoyed a Traci Lords or Jenna Jameson video, you already have.

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    I post this stuff for one main reason. If you google "anti-porn" "stop porn" etc. there are literally a few hundred different websites out there getting hits, and all of them are filled with articles from people...MOSTLY women...telling us how YOU are not making a free and informed decision you drug-addled sexually-abused, homeless, ignorant whore...And there are very very few web sites dedicated to empowered women who are choosing to do sex work, not because they are sexually abused or drug addicts, not because we're homeless, but because in a free and open society a woman's right to do with her body as she pleases is an ULTIMATE right that 90% of these same women argue constantly for on the abortion issue. On top of which there is a serious underlying anti-sexual sentiment inherent in all of this stuff.

    So, if you can feel it, we need to start writing more and talking about this. I have never met a more intelligent and articulate group of women as those who post here, and you really seriously can make a difference. Be the other side of the coin to these lame and sneaky attacks on your livelihood, as well as vicious generalizations about who you are.

    B

    PS Especially pay attention to 5 and 6 in that article up there...because those are the ones that make "regular people" say "Yeah...something needs to be done about that"..turning the LARGE percentage of women who don't fall into other categories marginal, and also saying they are coerced their WHOLE LIVES because female life IS coercion!...My opinion anyway.
    Last edited by Bambalina; 08-21-2011 at 08:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by hidarlin View Post
    Oh looks like somebody drank the Dworkin flavored Kool-Aid. As a feminist I have not patience for these sort. The fact that most are unwilling to engage in any form of reasoned discussion causes me to put them in the same category as the WBBC, angry nut jobs the lot of them. Now I have money make and men to humiliate.
    I agree! However the fact that these people affect public opinion and alter the consciousness of the masses, bugs me. Because most of the happy, hard-working, empowered sex-worker public, does not write and video and talk enough to counter this shit.

    It's a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" proposition, I think and as women who are intelligent, obviously love to write (or we wouldn't be HERE), and have every different viewpoint under the sun (and better yet every different way to express it), we could honestly make some difference in the world.

    B

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    Veteran Member miss.adventure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    Over half of prostitutes interviewed for several research studies reported having pornography made of them by johns.
    REALLY? LoL! First of all I don't like to refer to my CLIENTS as "johns" Secondly, I do think that if any of my clients were lugging video equipment into my hotel room to make pornography of our session, I would have noticed. Unless of course I was too drugged out that day, due to my horrid addiction...you know, the one that has rendered me homeless and confined to a $150/day hotel room.

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.adventure View Post
    REALLY? LoL! First of all I don't like to refer to my CLIENTS as "johns" Secondly, I do think that if any of my clients were lugging video equipment into my hotel room to make pornography of our session, I would have noticed. Unless of course I was too drugged out that day, due to my horrid addiction...you know, the one that has rendered me homeless and confined to a $150/day hotel room.
    We better hurry and SAVE YOU from yourSELF!?!?! What is the feminist version of a white knight anyway?

    You bring up a great point. I have seldom seen a more desperate group of statistic creators in my life...they rival Fox Republicans...

    In fact 76% of all anti-porn supporters are unable to orgasm.
    56% of them smell funny.
    91% cannot say the word mellifluous coreectly.
    But it seems 100% of them make up statistics as bad as these!

    B

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    We better hurry and SAVE YOU from yourSELF!?!?! What is the feminist version of a white knight anyway?

    You bring up a great point. I have seldom seen a more desperate group of statistic creators in my life...they rival Fox Republicans...

    In fact 76% of all anti-porn supporters are unable to orgasm.
    56% of them smell funny.
    91% cannot say the word mellifluous coreectly.
    But it seems 100% of them make up statistics as bad as these!

    B
    56% of them smell funny

    Idk where your statistics come from, but that's hilarious LoL!

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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by miss.adventure View Post
    56% of them smell funny

    Idk where your statistics come from, but that's hilarious LoL!

    Well, like the anti-porn crowd, I decided, fuck it, I'd just make some up...I mean they post fucking nonsense. If there is no other reason to start writing and engaging these people, it is the very aggressiveness with which they make up lies.

    They remind me of the guy who used to date one of my good friends, he was a compulsive liar, and one night my hubby counted his lies and got him in 19 lies in 30 minutes.

    But seriously if you go read these people you see them not only making up, but really mis-suing statistics and words in a way that is really reckless and irresponsible.

    From:
    The most prevalent theme in pornography is one of utter contempt for women.
    and

    From:
    Pornography is tearing apart the very fabric of our society.
    are great examples of the types of language used by the anti-porn crowd.

    They also leave out the amounts of things, and make sweeping generalizations where there is just no cause to do so.

    "Women are harmed in the creation of porn."

    Well, this is true...But so is:

    "Women are harmed in the sport of skiing" and
    "Women are harmed in the office" and
    "Women are raped in colleges" ...but it is also true that,
    "Women are killed from using drain opening products"

    I mean, as long as two females are harmed or killed we can make these types of statements.

    Another aspect of this is the vast amount of information deleted from the statements content. ie. How many women? Harmed in what way? What kind of porn? How do YOU define porn?

    I mean a few even point to porn intruding into their lives as "Softporn appearing on the shelves at my local BlockBuster" and this is the inescapable porn. Yet most would say that since "porn" would be the "hardcore depictions of sex" soft-porn would be an oxymoron.

    Anyway, I find these people quite offensive and ran across far more of them than normal in the process of an article I am writing, and it once again fired me up. Because this board is filled with women who could easily combat this absolute shit, with truth.

    B

  25. #21
    Moderator Aurora_Sunset's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post

    In fact 76% of all anti-porn supporters are unable to orgasm.
    56% of them smell funny.
    91% cannot say the word mellifluous coreectly.
    But it seems 100% of them make up statistics as bad as these!

    B
    Love this.

    Stuff like this just makes me . I don't understand how people who just talk out of their ass seriously don't realize they're talking out of their ass. I want to know what plane of reality they exist on. It just cracks me up/makes me cry that women who think they are fighting for women's equality think that women are too stupid to think for themselves and run their own lives. How much do they advance the cause of women being able to be independent if they portray us as stupid, programmable victims who don't understand our own choices? They're doing much more harm in making women look like weak dipshits than any porno is doing... Idiots...


    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post

    Anyway, I find these people quite offensive and ran across far more of them than normal in the process of an article I am writing, and it once again fired me up. Because this board is filled with women who could easily combat this absolute shit, with truth.

    B
    The sad part is that these people are soooo fucked up that no matter what you say to them, they will never see the truth. No matter how much you insist that you're really doing it of free choice and enjoy your work, they will keep shaking their head and telling you that you just think that because you're brainwashed by the patriarchal media. They literally cannot accept that there is any exception to their thoughts or that they could be wrong. Even in the part you posted above from oneangrygirl, the last thing she listed as a reason was "free choice" and tried to be like "ok, it could happen" but then goes on to berate this notion with comments about the "happy hooker" story and how it's all BS fed to Cosmo magazine.

    If these "feminists" could just truly think logically (which is what I assume they're trying to do with all the "well thought-out" arguments), they would realize that every job is like this. Every job has it's ups and downs. Every person does their job because they have to and that particular job provides them what they consider more pros than cons. Every job is degrading in some way and a time and energy waste. Every job has you there for money. And nobody would be working if they didn't feel like they "had no other choice." Nobody, except the super-rich heirs/heiresses, have a choice in whether or not they have to work. Some choose a cubicle, some choose sex work. There are abused women in sex work - there are abused women who become teachers/police officers/secretaries/international interpreters. Whatever. Every job sucks in some way and every job has a variety of people with their own background and reasons for being there that may or may not have anything to do with their background.

    The only reason women feel more degraded in sex work than most other jobs is because people like these lunatics are making sure society never advances beyond this idea. They are the ones making it a deep, dark, shameful thing by touting it as such. If society did not look down on it and it was accepted, there would not be negative connotations associated with it, and women who go into it wouldn't be immediately struck with these negative, preconceived thoughts. The reason the sex industry is as shitty as it is for some is because of people like these "feminists" who would rather shout "rape! victim! shameful!" and keep the industry from being accepted and revamped, rather than work on improving conditions. Nice work, ladies...

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  27. #22
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Bravo to all that. Agreed completely.

    I tend to even go further in my analysis of the bad logic this whole thing is filled with.

    These women do not go out and make blogs and websites, and presumably take action and write letters for all the women who are using heroin and cocaine...Why? I mean c'mon, aren't those women slaves to something and not capable of choice?

    For me the reality of this stuff comes down to the public exposure of an image for women they hate, can't understand, and generally feel shame about. I believe they feel "We took womanhood this far, and THIS is what these women choose to do? It can't be!" and it reminds me in some ways of the backlash that is evident for women who choose to be Wives & Stay-at-home Moms...I mean, shit, they gave us all the choice in the world and some women still choose to be subservient wives and moms? IT CANNOT BE!

    But it is. When you give women choices, they will choose paths you do not like, just as children will choose things we might not have chosen for them, and instead of being disappointed, we might try applauding them for doing something creative and different. In stead of these women making pornography into something horrible and shameful, or worse trying to "stamp it out" and make it BE NOT...Maybe they should try to move things in a progressive manner toward the "light" instead of the "darkness".

    I've read Dworkin, and you know, for all her wrongheaded nonsense, there is a grain of truth in her work that doesn't exist in much of what we read here on the net. Because at least Dworkin accepts the existence of erotica and non-harmful sexual content. At least until you tried to pin her down and find out if being an a non-violent movie about marraige which was shown on like Cinemax as a "Hard R" rating, where the sex depicted is loving, but the female body is shown naked and lovely for extended periods of time, she would say THAT exploited women. But I digress...My point is that many of these women seem to think there is NO exception, and that everything that is even erotic, is porn, and even magazine advertising for make-up or Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue, is Porn. But they ALL say they are not anti-sex.

    these people are soooo fucked up that no matter what you say to them, they will never see the truth.
    I agree, but I think we should write and expand our viewpoint to cover the internet, not for THEM, since they are like religious zealots who will never alter their opinion, or political zealots...ditto. But for those who are moderate and who wonder what to think about it. What are the good things and the bad, what is the reality of being a "sex worker" (hmm..maybe instead of sex worker, we could say "purveyor of erotic delights"...maybe some of the terminology suits the anti-crowd more than the pro-crowd...porn, smut, dirty magazine, etc.) and the positive side of the issue. The positive contribution sex work brings to the table. Most of all, how sex work is a reality that is never ever going away no matter how hard they try to change things, since it is one of the most raw and basic needs and is not fulfilled in healthy society nearly enough.

    Sex Sells! For a reason...

    B

  28. #23
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Here we go:

    A. HOW WOMEN GET INTO PORNOGRAPHY:

    This is rarely a "totally free choice" as many pornography defenders put it. As Robert Jensen says: "A meaningful discussion of choice can't be restricted to the single moment when a woman decides to perform in a specific pornographic film but must include all the existing background conditions that affect not only the objective choices she faces but her subjective assessment of those choices." (2) In fact, women get into pornography under a variety of constraints:


    This describes every action we ever take in our lives and also describes the way we live as being so horrendously filled with blame. You picked your hubby because your mom picked your dad, and you picked the car you drive because you rode in certain cars all your life and your aunt owned a Volkswagen beetle...Even if we accept these theories as true, they nullify ALL choice in our lives. We didn't CHOOSE our car it was the result of all the experiences we've had with CARS...We didn't choose our husband or boyfriend, HE is the result of all our relationships in our life and our family experiences and such...

    My point here is that if you believe that women, and in fact ALL humans, are the results of all the experiences they have in life and that because of this they cannot choose pron as a career legitimately, then by extension you also believe that ALL choice is a sham, since EVERYTHING is the result of stuff that happened to us in the past. In other words, you deny CHOICE as a whole. That next meal? You aren't CHOOSING it, it is based on all the other means you ate and what you developed your palate to like, combined with the fact that you just read THIS right here which will make you think about it and guide a "choice"...

    Otherwise, we are NOT machines, and every moment we can choose or not choose based on free thought to do, or not do whatever....If so...Sex Work (or work as a 'provider of erotic services') is a choice, and so is your next meal and your boyfriend and your damn car....Because everything we ever did DOES affect us, but we can still choose to take a path that is not programmed.

    It is somehow ironic to me that these people want to philosophize about a woman's existence, equality, and the root causes of her entrance into erotica at a deep level, yet cannot the difference between free will/choice and robotic behaviors.

    Sad and once of the main places this debate should take aim...

    B

  29. #24
    Moderator Aurora_Sunset's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    ^^ Exactly. Plus, I really don't understand what the whole statistic about "most women who go into sex work have been abused as children" is supposed to even argue. They're basically trying to get you to think sex work is bad by associating it with something else that is bad (child molestation). But really, what does one have to do with the other on an argumentative level? Maybe some women were abused as children, so they have issues with sex, and they become dancers to get sexual attention from men. Annnnd? So what? This is sad to be sure, but hardly a case for decrying sex work as bad. Whether or not these abused women turn to sex work because of the abuse, the core problem is not that they're sex workers - it was that they were abused and still have issues from it. Shutting down porn and strip clubs is not going to cure them. Getting rid of their outlet is just going to make them find another outlet - like picking up random guys at bars every night. At least in the sex industry, they're getting paid...

    Just really... one has nothing to do with the other. Ask a feminist why this statistic even matters and they probably won't even know for a minute. Then they'll spout something about how it means that these women aren't "choosing from a healthy place" but are "forced" because they have unresolved issues, and we shouldn't be supporting an industry that preys off these victims. Oh whatever... These women are sad cases, and I feel for anyone who has gone through such horrors, but they're still making a choice. This would be like saying that a murderer who grew up in a violent household was not responsible for his actions because he did not have "real free will" to make the choice to be violent, based on his history... It's an element, sure, but nobody would believe there was no free choice involved. And whatever bad thing happened to them in the past, it has no bearing on how good or bad anything they do in the present is. Dancing on a pole or moaning in front of a camera is not comparable to being raped as an innocent child, and it's honestly disgusting that people would compare them. Just because a woman went through a bad experience related to sex doesn't mean that anything related to sex is bad...

    I really just hate when people pull that stupid statistic out of their ass and expect people to gasp and go "Oh no! A pornstar being raped in the past before she was a pornstar must mean that porn is evil!" Just... what? smh
    Last edited by Aurora_Sunset; 08-23-2011 at 06:09 PM.

  30. #25
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    Default Re: Wanna get pissed off? Read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post

    They speak for you ladies. Enjoy.

    I like this:

    WHAT THIS WEBSITE IS NOT FOR:

    -- Defending pornography, stripping, and/or prostitution (if you send me any of your knee-jerk lame excuses such as "Women freely choose", "Porn reduces rape", "Freedom of expression", or "you pro-censorship anti-sex prude", etc., your e-mails and comments will be ignored -- I will feel sorry for you though, as you are ultimately using those excuses to hide the real defenses that underlie your thoughts such as "my right to jerk off to porn and/or be selfish", etc., and you are giving up on your humanity -- there's nothing more beautiful in this world than being genuinely human). Pornography and prostitution are indefensible. The level of harms done to women and children is way too high! If you want to stupidly defend pornography, there are plenty of forums and blogs for that on the Net. Come back when you're less self-centered!

    -- Trying to wrap a defense of pornography, prostitution, and/or stripping in some kind of a "Fuck me" feminism; trying to show "empowerment" where there's none (your e-mails and comments will be ignored).

    -- Accusing us of being "anti-choice." I and many other feminists realized that women in the sex industry do not have any "real choice" in this society. Most of them have an economic necessity and a history of sexual abuse (There are plenty of studies that prove that -- check on this website). Around about 90% of them would rather leave the sex industry if they had the option. Some already have and decried its abuse (check on this website). Should we protect the right of a small 10% who'd rather stay, the rights of the few women who make a lot of money out of it instead of the rights of the overwhelming majority of prostituted women who never got the chance to make a meaningful choice and are sustaining unbearable violence and injury? I don't think so. So, do not even try to magnify the few isolated cases "of money and empowerment" here and there, like the mainstream media does. It doesn't work.

    Those just are so...well, THEY know...YOU don't!

    B

    Honestly, stuff like this doesn't even bother me one bit. Society is so clueless about "sex work" and its just so laughable. I was looking up responses to random yahoo questions about strippers just for the *lols* and it was quite entertaining. Almost every replier talked about how strippers were all whores and that's what the VIP rooms were made for. lol, and they all also went on to say that we are either addicts or have tons of children to take care of and that's why we all *have* to have sex with customers to make that money. Most also assumed you make $1,000 - $3,000 per night. Right. A few real strippers chimed in and stated the truth, but everyone just ignored those answers. So why should I feel bad or be upset that most people are so fucking dumb that they make up stereotypical lies about a industry that have 0% experience in? I do not care, its funny.

    What's really pathetic is that a lot of these people are close-minded, super religious people trying to push their religious beliefs on others. Rude much? I've also noticed a lot of the rude comments and hate comes from the very same people who mass overpopulate the earth with 8 children, eat excessive amount of meat (killing lots of animals for their own selfish indulgences), and probably even live off government aid. So a lot of these people need to just not talk. Morality is in the eye of the beholder. I go out of my way not to deal with ignorant people. Not because I don't want to face up to them, but because they are just so fucking annoying that I want them no where near me.

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