Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 48

Thread: No question, just an observation

  1. #1
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default No question, just an observation

    I find after reading the threads, a lot of the things the women are discussing about motivation, getting in the "right frame of mind" is similar to what guys have to do when asking women out, or approaching them in a club (real world club, not SC). Ie. if we walk in with an attitude of "oh she probably won't wanna talk to me or go out with me, etc..." then thats what we get.

    Yes, I get that for strippers at the strip club, it's a job and no one's looking for relationship material, and ultimately you're looking to get paid. Completely understand. But within that framework, the fantasy you're selling is that of being almost the "perfect" girlfriend, even if it's only a 1 minute one and to a motley crue record and immediately turns off after the song ends.

    And I dunno about other guys, but I'd pass on getting a lapdance from a girl for the same reason I'd pass on approaching (or pass on being receptive to women, whenever I do get approached), that is, I'm not attracted to her.

    In a weird way, I think some of the women that work as strippers can actually understand us guys that struggle with women... a bit better, even if you don't give a rats #[email protected] at a conscious level.

  2. #2
    Featured Member Natalllia's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    943
    Thanks
    1,138
    Thanked 1,157 Times in 493 Posts
    My Mood
    Stressed

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    I think there's probably a lot of truth to what you're saying.
    The gender roles are kind of reversed in the SC, because it's the dancers who do most of the approaching. IRL, these are the girls that are constantly getting hit on (at the dance club, neighborhood bar, grocery store, you name it) - but at the SC, these same girls have to approach many guys every night, and get rejected by a significant portion of them. The same guys who psych themselves up to talk to that hot girl across the dance floor (or hot neighbor, or whatever), now get to sit back and pick and choose which beautiful girl they want to spend their time with.

    When you're the one who does the asking, you know there's a real chance you might get rejected. That's where all these confidence boosting tips and so on come into play.
    "I didn't discover curves; I only uncovered them"
    - Mae West

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Natalllia For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Moderator yoda57us's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    at the Y
    Posts
    10,035
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 5,834 Times in 2,332 Posts
    My Mood
    Goofy

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    While there is some truth to what is being said her the fact is that dancing, and selling dances, is a sales job above all else. Confidence is obviously a huge part of that as is knowing your who your target customer is and knowing how to get him interested. Clearly handling rejection is a big part of it as well. In this economy and added wild card is the guy who actually has no money to spend on dances but will sit in the club all day nursing a drink and wasting everyone's time.

    It's not an easy job but it's still a job non the less, not a high school dance or a singles bar...
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

  5. #4
    Featured Member Natalllia's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    943
    Thanks
    1,138
    Thanked 1,157 Times in 493 Posts
    My Mood
    Stressed

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    ^^ Well, sure, we all know it's a job, but there ARE parallels.

    In both cases, the person approaches a total stranger and tries to get him/her to agree to something - a date or a dance/$$$.

    In both cases, the person doing the asking is partially relying on his/her own physical attractiveness to "woo" the other person. Part of being attractive is being confident.

    In both cases, getting rejected sucks. Even if we get rejected several times every night, and can get over it quickly, it still sucks. Even if we have no interest in the custie beyond his wallet, it still sucks.


    A good stripper will need sales skills to "close the deal", but it's really not that different. A guy approaching a girl (outside of a SC) is basically selling himself, he's just trying to get sex instead of $$$. What he might call "game", we would call "sales skills".
    "I didn't discover curves; I only uncovered them"
    - Mae West

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Natalllia For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Senior Member MiaStarr's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Your lap.
    Posts
    184
    Thanks
    336
    Thanked 104 Times in 59 Posts
    My Mood
    Blah

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    In this economy and added wild card is the guy who actually has no money to spend on dances but will sit in the club all day nursing a drink and wasting everyone's time.
    We had two of those guys yesterday during my shift. They rejected each girl that approached them for a dance. Instead they preferred to just sit and watch us. At least they would get up now and then to tip a girl on stage.

  8. #6
    Moderator yoda57us's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    at the Y
    Posts
    10,035
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 5,834 Times in 2,332 Posts
    My Mood
    Goofy

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by Natalllia View Post
    A good stripper will need sales skills to "close the deal", but it's really not that different. A guy approaching a girl (outside of a SC) is basically selling himself, he's just trying to get sex instead of $$$. What he might call "game", we would call "sales skills".
    I think I said at the start of my post that there are some similarities. There's one pretty big difference however. If I strike out asking a girl for a date...even if I strike out all night, it doesn't mean I'm not going to be able to pay my bills. So, while I agree that rejection sucks, there is a pretty big incentive for a dancer to keep on trying to hit her goal for the shift where a guy in a bar will just settle for the fat chick...
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to yoda57us For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Featured Member Natalllia's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    943
    Thanks
    1,138
    Thanked 1,157 Times in 493 Posts
    My Mood
    Stressed

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    ^^ Fair enough.
    "I didn't discover curves; I only uncovered them"
    - Mae West

  11. #8
    God/dess JayATee's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2008
    Location
    In your nightmares...
    Posts
    4,861
    Thanks
    1,334
    Thanked 2,291 Times in 1,133 Posts
    My Mood
    Devilish

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    My only problem with what you're saying OP, is that a dancer is SELLING you fantasy. You may not think she's as attractive as someone else. You may not think you're interested, but if she's good at her job, you'll be wanting her just the same and then asking for more.
    Sorry I missed church. I was too busy practicing witchcraft and becoming a lesbian.

    "If you're good at something, never do it for free." The Dark Knight

    "you conjunctively engender an intoxicating combination of wicked, wholesome & insanely intelligent" - a friend describing me


    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    ^^^ It's a penis, not a martini shaker.
    Blessed Be

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to JayATee For This Useful Post:


  13. #9
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by JayATee View Post
    My only problem with what you're saying OP, is that a dancer is SELLING you fantasy. You may not think she's as attractive as someone else. You may not think you're interested, but if she's good at her job, you'll be wanting her just the same and then asking for more.
    Hmm. I disagree, at least from my personal anecdotal experience. Other guys might be different... but very rarely I've gotten a dance from a woman that I wasn't physically attracted to, (in the sense, If I saw her outside the club I'd at least entertain the thought of talking to her, trying to attract her, etc..) and the ones I have gotten dances from, they didn't need to do much selling (I mean they'd have to be a complete bitch to make me overlook their bodies and say no, for such a quick physical interaction)

    Natalllia, I think you've hit exactly what Im saying. The job/paying bills/survival differences are there, and it's obvious, but I'm talking about the mental "mode" that the "seller" has to put themselves into before engaging in the process. That's very similar, even if the motivations are different.

    Yoda, getting rejected by a "hot girl" is not like having to count your pennies because you can't make rent. But like Natalllia said , getting rejected in either case can so easily make a person feel "what am I doing wrong?" or more fatalistically, "what's wrong with me?"

    Personally, I find when I'm trying to psych myself up for approaching women, taking on an attitude of "yeah! I can do it!" is not useful, it's just so easy to slip back into , "no I can't." But shifting the attitude from "no I can't' to "hmm, maybe I can" is much easier, sticks longer, and can have profound effects.

    I wonder if dancers have tried that? Instead of going from "ugh I won't make any money off this guy!" to "hmm, maybe I can?" instead of "I'm gonna syphon this guy DRY!" was useful?

  14. #10
    Moderator yoda57us's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    at the Y
    Posts
    10,035
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 5,834 Times in 2,332 Posts
    My Mood
    Goofy

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim View Post
    getting rejected in either case can so easily make a person feel "what am I doing wrong?" or more fatalistically, "what's wrong with me?"
    Agreed. The difference between a successful dancer and a not-so-successful dancer is which one of those questions she asks herself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to yoda57us For This Useful Post:


  16. #11
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim View Post
    Natalllia, I think you've hit exactly what Im saying. The job/paying bills/survival differences are there, and it's obvious, but I'm talking about the mental "mode" that the "seller" has to put themselves into before engaging in the process. That's very similar, even if the motivations are different.
    But the problem here is that you are trying to separate out motives from the requirements to prepare mentally, but these two cannot be separated. You also cannot strip out the 'job" aspect of this, which requires a different type of psyching up. Net-net, there is a big difference between selling when one must vs. simply taking a shot when there is something that you really want.

    1. When you walk up to someone who you want in a bar, you are trying to sell yourself to someone who you want to be with. The stripper has not only to sell herself, but also psych herself up to do so with a guy who she would never touch IRL and, all at the same time, maintain the fantasy for him.

    2. Also, as noted before, the pressures matter and will greatly impact the sales process. If I walk up to a girl at a bar and strike out, I just move on. For many of these girls, accepting "no" all night is simply not an option as they have bills to pay and kids to feed TONIGHT. They cannot simply retreat and lick their wounded pride if they are rejected - they have to keep working the crowd. And what is worse is the fact that, as she psyches herself up for her shift, she KNOWS that she must bring home money, which adds greatly to the mental pressures that she must manage as she prepares for the shift.

    Any comparison of the two situations is really apples to oranges IMHO. While there may be some similairities in momentary feelings of personal rejection, the other mental dynamics and pressures that exist for dancers when they are facing rejection simply are not there for the guys who strike out at the bar. For the guy, the worst outcome is the need to spend quality time with his hand. For a dancer at work, failure means not filling up the kids' lunch boxes the next day.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rickdugan For This Useful Post:


  18. #12
    God/dess JayATee's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2008
    Location
    In your nightmares...
    Posts
    4,861
    Thanks
    1,334
    Thanked 2,291 Times in 1,133 Posts
    My Mood
    Devilish

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim View Post
    Hmm. I disagree, at least from my personal anecdotal experience. Other guys might be different... but very rarely I've gotten a dance from a woman that I wasn't physically attracted to
    You might not, I know plenty that do and doesn't make my point any less valid. Besides that, I didn't say the dancer in question wasn't attractive, I said you might not find her as attractive as some. It's all a personal thing anyway. You're putting real world terms on something that isn't in the real world.
    Sorry I missed church. I was too busy practicing witchcraft and becoming a lesbian.

    "If you're good at something, never do it for free." The Dark Knight

    "you conjunctively engender an intoxicating combination of wicked, wholesome & insanely intelligent" - a friend describing me


    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    ^^^ It's a penis, not a martini shaker.
    Blessed Be

  19. #13
    God/dess cherryblossomsinspring's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,244
    Thanks
    2,454
    Thanked 4,800 Times in 1,707 Posts
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    deleted.
    Last edited by cherryblossomsinspring; 08-09-2011 at 10:23 AM. Reason: NO need to write this Yoda and RickD made it clear.

  20. #14
    Senior Member Jewel21's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    131
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    I agree with that comparision- I prefer approaching a guy sitting on his own in a club than a big group of guys. Kind of in the same way that if you re a guy, its easier to approach a girl alone at a bar as oposed to a group.

  21. #15
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    "You're putting real world terms on something that isn't in the real world."

    Fair enough, but isn't the intent to make it as "real-world" as possible? My point was that, (and maybe it's become reinforced after reading messages here) if I don't find the person attractive, I'm likely not going to get a dance with her , no matter how 'good at her job' she is:

  22. #16
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    "But the problem here is that you are trying to separate out motives from the requirements to prepare mentally, but these two cannot be separated. You also cannot strip out the 'job" aspect of this, which requires a different type of psyching up. Net-net, there is a big difference between selling when one must vs. simply taking a shot when there is something that you really want."

    Yeah, I guess I don't see the difference as big as you do. What if it's something you really really really really want vs something you must do?

    "For the guy, the worst outcome is the need to spend quality time with his hand."

    I think you're underestimating the long term psychological damage that might arise after multiple experiences of this "worst outcome" Not that I expect any kind of sympathy towards men on a stripper forum, in fact a black guy has a better chance of sympathy at a klan rally. But one thing about jobs are, they can always be changed if it came down to it... I mean, one can say also that a stripper could just after multiple rejections reach a conclusion she cannot strip anymore, and consider employment elsewhere?

    While I completely acknowledge the job aspect difference, I think there's something to be said for the psychological motivation that exists for all men to be "good with women" yes, while our physical survival (or our childs) is not at risk, in a way our psychological survival is. Besides, doesn't Maslow's heirarchy include sex as a need?



    In sum, in certain contexts, I think the similarity is worth mentioning, and some of the people here have responded as such as well.
    Last edited by skwadim; 08-14-2011 at 08:08 AM.

  23. #17
    Moderator yoda57us's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    at the Y
    Posts
    10,035
    Thanks
    2,878
    Thanked 5,834 Times in 2,332 Posts
    My Mood
    Goofy

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Dude, you seem like a bright guy. Please learn how to use the quote function...
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

  24. #18
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    11,037
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 5,124 Times in 3,086 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    I think the rejection is very much alike because it boils down to what a man finds attractive. However, when a guy approaches a woman in a bar there has to be equal attraction and that is not the case in a club. In a strip club I don't care how hot a man is as long as he pays, whereas in real life attraction is important but not the only thing. Interestingly though in both clubs and in real life I tended to attract men I have no interest in. In the club they know this is the only time a pretty girl will talk to them so they pay. I've gotten a lot of regulars from these types of men. In real life I would just walk away from a guy like this (and have).

    Having said that though and I've found that many regulars yes like hot girls they also like girls they can talk to. After a while a regular/dancer relationship can feel like a real relationship because it becomes more than looks. Of course there have been regular/dancer relationships that have become real but for most it stays as sort of a deeper level than looks.

  25. #19
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    Dude, you seem like a bright guy. Please learn how to use the quote function...
    bright and lazy aren't mutually exclusive.

  26. #20
    Veteran Member goddesskali's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2011
    Location
    At the bank
    Posts
    359
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 493 Times in 144 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim View Post
    I find after reading the threads, a lot of the things the women are discussing about motivation, getting in the "right frame of mind" is similar to what guys have to do when asking women out, or approaching them in a club (real world club, not SC). Ie. if we walk in with an attitude of "oh she probably won't wanna talk to me or go out with me, etc..." then thats what we get.

    Yes, I get that for strippers at the strip club, it's a job and no one's looking for relationship material, and ultimately you're looking to get paid. Completely understand. But within that framework, the fantasy you're selling is that of being almost the "perfect" girlfriend, even if it's only a 1 minute one and to a motley crue record and immediately turns off after the song ends.

    And I dunno about other guys, but I'd pass on getting a lapdance from a girl for the same reason I'd pass on approaching (or pass on being receptive to women, whenever I do get approached), that is, I'm not attracted to her.

    In a weird way, I think some of the women that work as strippers can actually understand us guys that struggle with women... a bit better, even if you don't give a rats #[email protected] at a conscious level.
    And you care because....?
    It's not about what you do for a living, it's about who you want to be.

    www.saucybrandconsulting.com | www.twitter.com/saucymktg

  27. #21
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by tabithacooks View Post
    And you care because....?
    just one of those unexpected life coincidences.

  28. #22
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,968
    Thanks
    798
    Thanked 1,121 Times in 605 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    I see what the OP is saying. Here's the clincher. if a stripper is constantly and consistently getting rejected, then she needs to change her looks, her game, or probably do something else.

    However, stripper rejection could be based on systematic factors as well, factors outside of her control. If the club is dead, or all the other dancers are fucking the custies, or the custies in the club are there for the show and won't spend....she is SOL. She is already in the hole because she PAYS to work there. She could potentially go to another club but what if its not feasible due to distance, her children, responsibilities, etc?

    If this happens several days in a row...it doesn't just psychologically fuck with her...it has very strong actual manifestations in her abiity to feed her family.....


    But its true about men who are constantly rejected, they can often become extremely bitter, horrible people.

    That's why I think homosexuality should be encouraged in this society as many of those delta/gamma males would go gay if it wasn't such a taboo.

    Also, whatever happened to the trend of eunichs? It should return!

  29. #23
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    11,037
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 5,124 Times in 3,086 Posts

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by KS_Stevia View Post
    I see what the OP is saying. Here's the clincher. if a stripper is constantly and consistently getting rejected, then she needs to change her looks, her game, or probably do something else.

    However, stripper rejection could be based on systematic factors as well, factors outside of her control. If the club is dead, or all the other dancers are fucking the custies, or the custies in the club are there for the show and won't spend....she is SOL. She is already in the hole because she PAYS to work there. She could potentially go to another club but what if its not feasible due to distance, her children, responsibilities, etc?

    If this happens several days in a row...it doesn't just psychologically fuck with her...it has very strong actual manifestations in her abiity to feed her family.....


    But its true about men who are constantly rejected, they can often become extremely bitter, horrible people.

    That's why I think homosexuality should be encouraged in this society as many of those delta/gamma males would go gay if it wasn't such a taboo.

    Also, whatever happened to the trend of eunichs? It should return!
    Strangely, I have a couple of guy friends who kept getting rejected and they decided to try men. They found they liked men more than women and wonder if they were getting rejected because they were repressed.

    I agree with you about the dancer. If a dancer doesn't make a lot at one club it might not be her, but if it's at all clubs it is her. I know there were clubs I didn't make a lot but it had nothing to do with my looks. One was a brothel (didn't know this)and another had cheap guys. Once I switched to a no touch bar with professional guys the money flowed.

  30. #24
    Member BouncerDude's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    27
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    My Mood
    Relaxed

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    Quote Originally Posted by KS_Stevia View Post
    Also, whatever happened to the trend of eunichs? It should return!

    Really? no. I can see less guys wanting to be bouncers at the club because of the "augmentation" requirement.
    Pain is just weakness leaving your body.

  31. #25
    Featured Member Natalllia's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    943
    Thanks
    1,138
    Thanked 1,157 Times in 493 Posts
    My Mood
    Stressed

    Default Re: No question, just an observation

    The process of becoming a eunuch is pretty much the opposite of an "augmentation".

    And I think she was probably (mostly) joking.
    "I didn't discover curves; I only uncovered them"
    - Mae West

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Local observation
    By TeeBaby in forum Camming Connection
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-18-2011, 02:55 PM
  2. Another Observation.
    By Mastridonicus in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-21-2006, 08:45 AM
  3. is dancing making us all crazy? just an observation...
    By mermaidnz in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 04-29-2006, 03:02 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •