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Thread: london is burning...will the US help?

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    Default london is burning...will the US help?

    It is unfortunate about the recent events in london. But talking about bringing us soldiers there is help them is a bunch of bs. They don't hardly like americans anyway and we are always the first one to help everyone but ourselves. As a former soldier I take this personal and don't really care what people say until they know what it is like to fight in this country......wonder why no one ever comes here to the united states when aid is needed for people here to include flooding and hurricane katrina years ago.....anyway god help them, but american troops are split and torn as it is....way too thin

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    As a 'Brit' who has been to the US numerous times, and who has many friends there....I have to say, that as appalling as the riots are - this is the first I have heard about asking the US Army to help out.

    It IS 'bs' as you say. No offence....but we have a fine and proud Police Force (and Army) who are perfectly capable of carrying out their duties to protect the public during this period of disturbance.

    However - what the British Government does afterwards to address the real underlying social problems....well that's a whole different matter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Aw, I'm reading about what's happeneing in London right now.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2...london/100124/

    That makes me sad. All that destruction.

    The G20 was held where I live about a year ago now, and I remember being really upset about all the rioting and unnecessary destruction. What's happening in London (and all over now) is so much worse than that was. How awful.



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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy Lee View Post
    It is unfortunate about the recent events in london. But talking about bringing us soldiers there is help them is a bunch of bs. They don't hardly like americans anyway and we are always the first one to help everyone but ourselves. As a former soldier I take this personal and don't really care what people say until they know what it is like to fight in this country......wonder why no one ever comes here to the united states when aid is needed for people here to include flooding and hurricane katrina years ago.....anyway god help them, but american troops are split and torn as it is....way too thin
    Our own army aren't even being called in so why would we ask yours to help ?

    It is your business if you choose to believe media propaganda which consists of sensationalized half truths.

    And if we had to call anyone I reckon it should be these guys to train our lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diEjs...eature=related
    Last edited by Citychick; 08-10-2011 at 03:58 AM.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    America needs to be more concerned with avoiding finding itself in the same situation before long. We appear to be headed in that direction with all these expected entitlements we can't afford.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Citychick View Post
    Our own army aren't even being called in so why would we ask yours to help ?
    This. OP - don't believe everything you hear in the media!

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    I don't think we require any outside help just yet. We have a great police force and if necessary our own army can do the job just fine.
    Last edited by Afroangel; 08-10-2011 at 05:55 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?


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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    What started it all?


    MANY MEN WANTED TO LAY ME DOWN, BUT FEW WANTED TO LIFT ME UP

    -Eartha Kitt

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Some guy got shot by the cops i believe. And the UK obviously does not need any help from us, that is ridiculous.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    it seems like a lot of the rioters in those pics from the link 4everresolutions posted seem to be black, whereas all of the cops were white.

    i know im going to get flack for this (i am not trying to be racist here!); however, i am just making an observation.

    do you think the photographers focused more on taking pics of black youths in hooded sweatshirts looting, than white people (media tends to skew the truth) ? or is there another explanation for this?

    thoughts?

    also, i cant help but wonder why the british army hasnt been called in? this seems like a very dangerous situation that is escalating more and more each day.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    ^^^ many aspects of the london riots situation have previously been discussed in regard to the somewhat similar Wisconsin State Fair 'riots' ... however, that thread has now been moved to the Games subsection, presumably because the discourse bumped up against racial issues.

    At any rate, the UK incidents seemed to gain momentum because the police were reluctant ( or lacked official authorization ) to utilize sufficient force to stop the 'yob's'. With the ongoing / escalating situation ( latest news is that a few victims of the 'yob's' have died ), UK police have deployed something like 10,000 additional cops and have authorized the use of plastic bullets, fire hoses etc. to subdue the violence. Additionally, UK police have now made hundreds of arrests and UK media is publishing security cam pics of violent 'yobs' in hopes that the general public can help identify them for potential arrest and prosecution.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    the wisconsin state fair was definitely an interesting thread to read.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    The facts recently presented in UK media would tend to indicate that the ( black ) british guy who was killed by UK cops was far from an 'innocent bystander'. Unless the cabdriver of the cab he was riding in chose to shoot at a cop, he was the only other person in the cab and shots were fired from the cab at a UK police officer ( with the bullet lodging in the officer's police radio ). The UK police officer then returned fire, resulting in this guy's death !

    One significant difference between the UK riots and the various US incidents is that UK press is now starting to openly discuss underlying reasons behind the street violence ...


    (snip)It was fun. It made life interesting. It got people to notice them. As a girl looter told a BBC reporter, it showed ‘the rich’ and the police that ‘we can do what we like’.

    If you live a normal life of absolute futility, which we can assume most of this week’s rioters do, excitement of any kind is welcome. The people who wrecked swathes of property, burned vehicles and terrorised communities have no moral compass to make them susceptible to guilt or shame.

    Most have no jobs to go to or exams they might pass. They know no family role models, for most live in homes in which the father is unemployed, or from which he has decamped.

    They are illiterate and innumerate, beyond maybe some dexterity with computer games and BlackBerries.

    They are essentially wild beasts. I use that phrase advisedly, because it seems appropriate to young people bereft of the discipline that might make them employable; of the conscience that distinguishes between right and wrong. They respond only to instinctive animal impulses — to eat and drink, have sex, seize or destroy the accessible property of others. Their behaviour on the streets resembled that of the polar bear which attacked a Norwegian tourist camp last week. They were doing what came naturally and, unlike the bear, no one even shot them for it.

    A former London police chief spoke a few years ago about the ‘feral children’ on his patch — another way of describing the same reality.

    The depressing truth is that at the bottom of our society is a layer of young people with no skills, education, values or aspirations. They do not have what most of us would call ‘lives’: they simply exist.

    Nobody has ever dared suggest to them that they need feel any allegiance to anything, least of all Britain or their community. They do not watch royal weddings or notice Test matches or take pride in being Londoners or Scousers or Brummies. Not only do they know nothing of Britain’s past, they care nothing for its present. They have their being only in video games and street-fights, casual drug use and crime, sometimes petty, sometimes serious.

    The notions of doing a nine-to-five job, marrying and sticking with a wife and kids, taking up DIY or learning to read properly, are beyond their imaginations.

    Last week, I met a charity worker who is trying to help a teenage girl in East London to get a life for herself. There is a difficulty, however: ‘Her mother wants her to go on the game [social welfare benefits - sic].’ My friend explained: ‘It’s the money, you know.’

    An underclass has existed throughout history, which once endured appalling privation. Its spasmodic outbreaks of violence, especially in the early 19th century, frightened the ruling classes. Its frustrations and passions were kept at bay by force and draconian legal sanctions, foremost among them capital punishment and transportation to the colonies.

    Today, those at the bottom of society behave no better than their forebears, but the welfare state has relieved them from hunger and real want. When social surveys speak of ‘deprivation’ and ‘poverty’, this is entirely relative. Meanwhile, sanctions for wrongdoing have largely vanished.

    When Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith recently urged employers to take on more British workers and fewer migrants, he was greeted with a hoarse laugh. Every firm in the land knows that an East European — for instance — will, first, bother to turn up; second, work harder; and third, be better-educated than his or her British counterpart.Who do we blame for this state of affairs?

    Ken Livingstone, contemptible as ever, declares the riots to be a result of the Government’s spending cuts. This recalls the remarks of the then leader of Lambeth Council, ‘Red Ted’ Knight, who said after the 1981 Brixton riots that the police in his borough ‘amounted to an army of occupation’.

    But it will not do for a moment to claim the rioters’ behaviour reflects deprived circumstances or police persecution.
    Of course it is true that few have jobs, learn anything useful at school, live in decent homes, eat meals at regular hours or feel loyalty to anything beyond their local gang.

    This is not, however, because they are victims of mistreatment or neglect. It is because it is fantastically hard to help such people, young or old, without imposing a measure of compulsion which modern society finds unacceptable. These kids are what they are because nobody makes them be anything different or better.

    A key factor in delinquency is lack of effective sanctions to deter it. From an early stage, feral children discover that they can bully fellow pupils at school, shout abuse at people in the streets, urinate outside pubs, hurl litter from car windows, play car radios at deafening volumes, and, indeed, commit casual assaults with only a negligible prospect of facing rebuke, far less retribution.(snip)

    (snip)So there we have it: a large, amoral, brutalised sub-culture of young British people who lack education because they have no will to learn, and skills which might make them employable. They are too idle to accept work waitressing or doing domestic labour, which is why almost all such jobs are filled by immigrants.

    They have no code of values to dissuade them from behaving anti-socially or, indeed, criminally, and small chance of being punished if they do so.

    They have no sense of responsibility for themselves, far less towards others, and look to no future beyond the next meal, sexual encounter or TV football game.

    They are an absolute deadweight upon society, because they contribute nothing yet cost the taxpayer billions. Liberal opinion holds they are victims, because society has failed to provide them with opportunities to develop their potential. Most of us would say this is nonsense. Rather, they are victims of a perverted social ethos, which elevates personal freedom to an absolute, and denies the underclass the discipline — tough love — which alone might enable some of its members to escape from the swamp of dependency in which they live.

    Only education — together with politicians, judges, policemen and teachers with the courage to force feral humans to obey rules the rest of us have accepted all our lives — can provide a way forward and a way out for these people.

    They are products of a culture which gives them so much unconditionally that they are let off learning how to become human beings. My dogs are better behaved and subscribe to a higher code of values than the young rioters of Tottenham, Hackney, Clapham and Birmingham.

    Unless or until those who run Britain introduce incentives for decency and impose penalties for bestiality which are today entirely lacking, there will never be a shortage of young rioters and looters such as those of the past four nights, for whom their monstrous excesses were ‘a great fire, man’.(snip)

    Read more:

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    The facts recently presented in UK media would tend to indicate that the ( black ) british guy who was killed by UK cops was far from an 'innocent bystander'. Unless the cabdriver of the cab he was riding in chose to shoot at a cop, he was the only other person in the cab and shots were fired from the cab at a UK police officer ( with the bullet lodging in the officer's police radio ). The UK police officer then returned fire, resulting in this guy's death !
    Forensics have shown that the bullet lodged in the radio was actually a police-issue bullet. The theory being that one of the officers shots ricocheted.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Also, if anyone is interested to read more, I'd suggest that you look a bit further than the Daily Mail if you want a less biased view.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Quote Originally Posted by JadeJewel View Post
    Also, if anyone is interested to read more, I'd suggest that you look a bit further than the Daily Mail if you want a less biased view.
    This completely. In the UK the tabloid the Daily Mail has the nickname the 'Daily Fail' because of its biased and sensational headlines.

    If you want a giggle about the Daily Mai, this is worth watching - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTu7GLfrmUI

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    I don't usually find Russell Howard funny but that made me LOL!

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Innocent people get shot by cops all the time here. Occasionally there are riots, but people here don't care enough to let them escalate into the type of riots England has right now.
    I think you may be to young to remember them ........

    So Google the "Rodney King riots" .

    Fires and looting on the scale of the UK situation in LA, Atlanta, and more.

    On an interesting note. Korea town was barely damaged in the rioting. Probably because the store owners were on the roof tops with semi auto AR-15s and AK-47s.

    The State Governors called up the National Guard and the 82nd Airborne Division was brought in. Martial Law and shoot on sight orders for looters finally shut them down.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    ^^^ America having lost its steam in what way ... a lack of 'energized' rioters ? A lack of determination on the part of American police and local officials to use whatever level of force is required to suppress rioting / looting ?

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    I would add that the Daily Mail's commentary is certainly not the only voice out there.


    (snip)"Those of you following the barbaric rioting in Britain will not have failed to notice that a sizable proportion of the thugs are white, something not often seen in this country.

    Not only that, but in a triumph of feminism, a lot of them are girls. Even the "disabled" (according to the British benefits system) seem to have miraculously overcome their infirmities to dash out and steal a few TVs.

    Congratulations, Britain! You've barbarized your citizenry, without regard to race, gender or physical handicap!

    With a welfare system far more advanced than the United States, the British have achieved the remarkable result of turning entire communities of ancestral British people into tattooed, drunken brutes.

    I guess we now have the proof of what conservatives have been saying since forever: Looting is a result of liberal welfare policies. And Britain is in the end stages of the welfare state.

    In 2008, a 9-year-old British girl, Shannon Matthews, disappeared on her way home from a school trip. The media leapt on the case -- only to discover that Shannon was one of seven children her mother, Karen, had produced with five different men.

    The first of these serial sperm-donors explained: "Karen just goes from one bloke to the next, uses them to have a kid, grabs all the child benefits and moves on."

    Poor little Shannon eventually turned up at the home of one of her many step-uncles -- whose ex-wife, by the way, was the mother of six children with three different fathers.

    (Is Father's Day celebrated in England? If so, how?)

    The Daily Mail (London) traced the family's proud Anglo ancestry of stable families back hundreds of years. The Nazi war machine couldn't break the British, but the modern welfare state has.

    A year earlier, in 2007, another product of the new order, Fiona MacKeown, took seven of her eight children (by five different fathers) and her then-boyfriend, on a drug-fueled, six-month vacation to the Indian island of Goa. The trip was paid for -- like everything else in her life -- with government benefits.

    (When was the last time you had a free, six-month vacation? I'm drawing a blank, too.)

    While in Goa, Fiona took her entourage on a side-trip, leaving her 15-year-old daughter, Scarlett Keeling, in the capable hands of a 25-year-old local whom Scarlett had begun sleeping with, perhaps hoping to get a head-start on her own government benefits. A few weeks later, Scarlett turned up dead, full of drugs, raped and murdered.

    Scarlett's estranged stepfather later drank himself to death, while her brother Silas announced on his social networking page: "My name is Si, n I spend most my life either out wit mates get drunk or at partys, playing rugby or going to da beach (pretty s**t really)."

    It's a wonder that someone like Silas, who has never worked, and belongs to a family in which no one has ever worked, can afford a cellphone for social networking. No, actually, it's not.

    Britain has a far more redistributive welfare system than France, which is why France's crime problem is mostly a matter of Muslim immigrants, not French nationals. Meanwhile, England's welfare state is fast returning the native population to its violent 18th-century highwaymen roots.

    Needless to say, Britain leads Europe in the proportion of single mothers and, as a consequence, also leads or co-leads the European Union in violent crime, alcohol and drug abuse, obesity and sexually transmitted diseases.

    But liberal elites here and in Britain will blame anything but the welfare state they adore. They drone on about the strict British class system or the lack of jobs or the nation's history of racism.

    None of that explains the sad lives of young Shannon Matthews and Scarlett Keeling, with their long English ancestry and perfect Anglo features.

    Democrats would be delighted if violent mobs like those in Britain arose here -- perhaps in Wisconsin! That would allow them to introduce yet more government programs staffed by unionized public employees, as happened after the 1992 L.A. riots and the 1960s race riots, following the recommendations of the Kerner Commission.

    MSNBC might even do the unthinkable and offer Al Sharpton his own TV show. (Excuse me -- someone's trying to get my attention ... WHAT?)

    Inciting violent mobs is the essence of the left's agenda: Promote class warfare, illegitimate children and an utterly debased citizenry.

    Like the British riot girls interviewed by the BBC, the Democrats tell us "all of this happened because of the rich people."

    We're beginning to see the final result of that idea in Britain. The welfare state creates a society of beasts. Meanwhile, nonjudgmental elites don't dare condemn the animals their programs have created.

    Rioters in England are burning century-old family businesses to the ground, stealing from injured children lying on the sidewalks and forcing Britons to strip to their underwear on the street.

    I keep reading that it's because they don't have jobs -- which they're obviously anxious to hold. Or someone called them a "kaffir." Or their social services have been reduced. Or their Blackberries made them do it. Or they disapprove of a referee's call in a Manchester United game.

    A few well-placed rifle rounds, and the rioting would end in an instant. A more sustained attack on the rampaging mob might save England from itself, finally removing shaved-head, drunken parasites from the benefits rolls that Britain can't find the will to abolish on moral or utilitarian grounds. We can be sure there's no danger of killing off the next Winston Churchill or Edmund Burke in these crowds.

    But like Louis XVI, British authorities are paralyzed by their indifference to their own civilization. A half-century of berating themselves for the crime of being British has left them morally defenseless. They see nothing about England worth saving, certainly not worth fighting for -- which is fortunate since most of their cops don't have guns.

    This is how civilizations die. It can happen overnight, as it did in Revolutionary France. If Britain of 1939 were composed of the current British population, the entirety of Europe would today be doing the "Heil Hitler" salute and singing the "Horst Wessel Song."

    COPYRIGHT 2011 ANN COULTER
    DISTRIBUTED BY UNIVERSAL UCLICK "(snip)

    from


    The noteworthy take-away from Ann Coulter's commentary is that the UK rioters do not share a common race ! Instead they share a different common attribute ... the 'side effects' of an out of control social welfare system ! Admittedly both the Daily Mail and Ann Coulter are less than 'objective' sources, but the facts behind their observations are indisputable.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy Lee View Post
    It is unfortunate about the recent events in london. But talking about bringing us soldiers there is help them is a bunch of bs. They don't hardly like americans anyway and we are always the first one to help everyone but ourselves. As a former soldier I take this personal and don't really care what people say until they know what it is like to fight in this country......wonder why no one ever comes here to the united states when aid is needed for people here to include flooding and hurricane katrina years ago.....anyway god help them, but american troops are split and torn as it is....way too thin
    i couldn't agree more with you. not to mention london is in strong economic shape. they dont need us.

    Sell pics/vids+hourly contest+tips!

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy Lee View Post
    It is unfortunate about the recent events in london. But talking about bringing us soldiers there is help them is a bunch of bs.
    Amy, I think you heard some incorrect information. Like many Americans, I've been following the events in the UK over the last few days and I did not hear any mention of US troops being requested. However, there was talk of the British calling in their own army to quell the riots. Fortunately, it looks like that won't be required.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    ^^^ actually, it appears that the latest policy adopted by UK police is putting a damper on the 'yobs'. This involves 10,000 extra cops, the authorized use of plastic bullets, and most importantly the application of face recognition software to security camera images ( as well a public outreach to UK citizens to identify published 'yob' security cam images ). The latter of course means that the UK police can wind up ID'ing 'yobs' who committed crimes well after the fact, leading to after the fact arrests and prosecution.

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    Default Re: london is burning...will the US help?

    So in the outcome................

    There will be proof (positive or negative) to the effectiveness of London thousands of security cameras.

    Big Brother affirmed or denied? I eagerly await the verdict.

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