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Thread: Club going downhill

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    Default Club going downhill

    I am going to vent for a minute.

    My club used to be awesome. And I understand that a lot of clubs' earning potential is going down, but it's not just earning potential that's going down at my club. The quality of girls is also declining, both in looks and attitude.

    A lot of the girls in my club used to be classier. Now it seems, with this huge influx of girls, that many of the girls are really crass and just vulgar and are getting drunk and acting like idiots every night.

    My club is a no-alcohol club. Girls used to get fired for being drunk. Now NOTHING happens to them.

    Contact has gone UP, WAAAYY up. If a guy touched a girls leg, he used to get a warning and if it continued they got kicked out and the girl on probation if it was a common occurance. Now a guy can practically finger a girl and nothing.

    There are also far too many girls working each shift-over 40. And because the quality of girls has gone down plus economy, not as many guys are coming in. I'm talking maybe 20 guys on a weekend, less on a weeknight.

    I wish the managers would do something about it. They are super nice to the girls, sometimes too nice, I think. They don't do anything.

    I wish I could go work at a different club, but I've tried PTs all-nude here and it's worse, and I really don't like TNT's or Babydolls. Denver is too far for me to work regular shifts and my husband doesn't like me having to leave so early to work. I could travel for a week or two to some clubs I know and like out of state, but again husband doesn't really like me going.

    I'm just so frustrated! I am making a third to a quarter each night of what I used to make. I just wish the managers would listen to what the dancers are saying and DO something about the problem. Like, stop hiring, or start having standards; limit the number of girls per shift; start enforcing the LAWS; and do some advertising! Any combination of this would help. arrrggghhhhh!!!
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    [QUOTE=BringOnTheMen;2202049] Lately there have been many days where over half of the girls struggle to break $100, some days where over 80% do.

    ...................
    Last edited by papillonluvr; 10-02-2012 at 05:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    It's happening all over the country.

    My club is a similar story, I didn't use to allow touching unless a guy bought a VIP, but now I allow it in couch dances IF he pays me double.

    Word around the club is that the managers are going to have a meeting with us and tell us we will be fired if we ask for "tips", but I re-read my contract and it says that the club sets mandatory entertainment fees for certain services offered, but that nothing prevents the dancer from receiving tips or gratuities above-and-beyond the entertainment fees.

    They would have to re-write the contract to get away with that. I think that's why they haven't said anything yet.

    It's not about keeping the club clean, it's that they want their $7, and if I do a dance for $40 instead of two $20 dances then they are "losing" $7, but in reality it was never their money to begin with.
    If you are willing to do for one year what other's won't, you can spend a lifetime doing what other's cant.


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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post

    Also, when I was hired I was the fat one at 5'4" and just over 130.

    5'4" and 130 is not fat.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    The club owners care less about the dancers or the quality its just about having enough bodies to fill shifts. I have seen management care less and less about the dancers.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    It's been happening here too.

    Another thing I've noticed is that the younger girls who are starting to dance allow all sorts of touching, those of us who have been dancing for a while don't. But interestingly enough, the more experienced dancers are still making more money, it's just a harder hustle.

    This is all part of why I've decided to retire from dancing and move into more camming, to be honest.
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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    I wish the managers would do something about it. They are super nice to the girls, sometimes too nice, I think. They don't do anything.
    The club owners care less about the dancers or the quality its just about having enough bodies to fill shifts
    I just found out that Deja Vu stopped promoting my club and as a result, told my GM to put more girls on schedule. WTF is that?????

    What this is ... is a changing business model. Put yourself in the position of a clubowner with a mortgage, investors, and bills to pay for a minute ...

    There are fewer customers coming into the club these days ... thus lower club earnings from cover charges and minimum drink sales.

    Of the customers that ARE coming into the clubs these days, they are typically buying fewer private dances ... thus lower club earnings from their 'split' of private dance sales.

    So how can the clubowner increase club income ?

    - add more dancers per shift ... thus increasing club earnings from house/stage fees paid by each dancer

    - turn a blind eye to 'extras' ... thus increasing the club's 'cut' of the resulting additional private dances sold that would not have been sold without the dancer offering 'extras'.


    I'm just so frustrated! I am making a third to a quarter each night of what I used to make. I just wish the managers would listen to what the dancers are saying and DO something about the problem. Like, stop hiring, or start having standards; limit the number of girls per shift; start enforcing the LAWS; and do some advertising! Any combination of this would help. arrrggghhhhh!!!
    In the final analysis, clubowners and 'clean' dancers have different problems, and clubowners have no inherent 'loyalty' to dancers. Nor do they have any real responsibility to provide 'clean' dancers with a working environment that offers high earnings potential free of 'extras' ( well legally yes but real world no ). The clubowner's primary responsibility lies in making dividend payments to club investors, making monthly mortgage payments and utility bill payments, earning money for themselves etc.

    Thus, sadly, this new business model can mean that a new very hot 'clean' dancer may be turned away while the club hires a far less hot 'dirty' dancer ... because the 'dirty' dancer will pay the club an equal amount of dollars in house/stage fees and is likely to sell more private dances using 'extras' as a sales tool. Or put simply, the less hot 'dirty' dancer can provide more income for the clubowner than the very hot 'clean' dancer can.


    Another thing I've noticed is that the younger girls who are starting to dance allow all sorts of touching
    The likely next step in this changing business model is an increase in the number of very hot 'clean' / new dancers who will conclude that they can't survive financially as exotic dancers without offering 'extras'. At that point, the clubowner can begin to 'weed out' the less hot 'dirty' dancers because a very hot 'dirty' dancer will be available to replace her.

    Gradually, word of mouth advertising will then start to draw in additional club customers who are attracted by the availability of 'extras' from truly stunning girls !!! At that point, both the club's income and the earnings potential of the very hot 'dirty' dancers will begin to increase significantly. But this of course is a different business model than in the past ... i.e. 'sex' business rather than 'show' business.

    Arguably, with poor economic conditions, higher taxes, higher costs of food and fuel etc. taking their toll on middle class club customer wallets, there simply isn't enough 'discretionary spending' money left in those customer wallets to be spent on air dances to keep the 'show' business model economically viable ( potential exception super upscale clubs in MAJOR business cities ). The new 'sex' business model CAN be successful, for both the clubowners and for the 'dirty' dancers, because it ultimately pursuades cash strapped middle class club customers to be late on paying their utility bills or to eat Ramen soup instead of steak so that they can instead spend their limited money on a HJ / BJ in the private dance room at their local strip club.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-11-2011 at 05:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    It's going on all over the country. Agreed, has been for years now. I don't think it is going to change -or at least not soon.

    But if you are struggling to break $100 -perhaps try a dif city or club or type of club? I can't do bikini dances -I realized. So I stick w/ nude clubs. Also near a military base -helps. I don't know when your high season & low season is. But Chicago is very, very dead in Winter (literally dries up the day after NYE) till late spring -so I'm gonna travel more in the winters. Can you do anything like that or any other solution? Good Luck, dear!
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    It's going on all over the country. Agreed, has been for years now. I don't think it is going to change
    True. IMHO the industry has been gradually changing ever since the 'dot-com' bust of 2000. However, what's 'new' and significant is that, in many locations, the 'clean' dancer earnings potential has now declined to the point where the after-tax after-benefits net earnings from dancing aren't significantly higher than what's available from working a near minimum wage 'straight' job.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Quote Originally Posted by papillonluvr View Post

    There are also far too many girls working each shift-over 40. And because the quality of girls has gone down plus economy, not as many guys are coming in.
    I had never cared about older women but if they haven't taken care of themselves and aren't fit, they should stop dancing once and for all.

    In one of the clubs I work there are three dancers that are passed 40; two of them look really bad and had left themselves go, but one looks totally fine for her age (43). The first two probably spend their young years drinking and doing drugs instead of saving it and using it for things like skin products, plastic surgery, etc.





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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    The same is happening in the UK too. It's why shortly after coming out of retirement i've quickly gone back in like a rabbit down a hole!

    Melonie has hit the nail on the head - this is the evolution of the industry and as an old fashioned stripper it's not a direction i'm interested in travelling.

    Sad times

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Yep at some of my clubs I find more avg looking girls doing well. Kinda makes me wonder what they r doing bc they def rnt attractive. People know Im not giving out BJs or HJs I look pretty high maintenance and I think that scares alot of customers away. Maybe if I looked like complete crap guys would think they had more of a chance with me and tip me lol. I actually came in one night and looked like crap and a few more regs tipped me at that bar than normal. Maybe I need to wear less makeup and look less done up and ill bank. maybe no makeup is the way to go but I dont like how i look on the runway w less makeup. So we will see..

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    God/dess papillonluvr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    I had never cared about older women but if they haven't taken care of themselves and aren't fit, they should stop dancing once and for all.

    In one of the clubs I work there are three dancers that are passed 40; two of them look really bad and had left themselves go, but one looks totally fine for her age (43). The first two probably spend their young years drinking and doing drugs instead of saving it and using it for things like skin products, plastic surgery, etc.
    LOL I actually meant over 40 girls per shift, and ours is a smaller club. It can't support that many per shift.

    But we do have two women over 40-1 banks, and the other not so much. Both look like trash.



    I guess I am a bit more old-fashioned for a stripper. I don't like being manhandled although if the laws allow it, whatever. But I WON'T do sexual favors or kiss guys. I hate drinking, I don't do drugs. I am actually pretty average.

    It's sad to hear that this is happening in so many places.
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    This is what caused me to leave stripping. Watching my club move in this direction over a course of four years. I'm sorry this is happening to your club.

    What sucks most about this is that it doesn't benefit anyone long-term. Girls start doing more and more for less and less, and it undercuts the entire system.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    while i do partially agree with melonie, i noticed that a lot of men don't like how dirty and depressing so many clubs have gotten. and they're the men with a lot of money to spend. they like being generous to pretty girls, for very little contact. clubs have been catering to cheapos who want the most bang for their buck, and they're losing the big spenders because of it.

    as for making more when you look sloppy...it's because you look like an extras girl. even extras girls with the desire and wherewithall to look nice usually can't because they'll get too disheveled. better to wear hair up and no makup all night than to look all glamourous going into the champagne room, with just fucked hair and smeared makeup walking out.

    to the op- get the fuck out. your husband needs to suck it up and deal with it. you need to travel. the money there isn't good enough, and it's too hard to get. travel. it'll only get worse.
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Most clubs now cater to cheap men in my area. Drink specials, food specials, two for one dances. Couple weeks to go before I take a break from this. Those of you who still make great money I hope u continue to do so and get it while you can...save money ladies

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Op consider traveling, it could be exciting and save u from burn out

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    God/dess papillonluvr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    I've travelled before, and I could again. When he was deployed I took a three month long road trip. It just gets hard, since he's military and he has to make sure he is there on time, and sometimes gets called in late. If he doesn't go, he's MIA and in serious shit.

    I am thinking of making the trip to Denver maybe twice a week.
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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    What sucks most about this is that it doesn't benefit anyone long-term. Girls start doing more and more for less and less, and it undercuts the entire system.
    Exactly! Well said!

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    i noticed that a lot of men don't like how dirty and depressing so many clubs have gotten. and they're the men with a lot of money to spend. they like being generous to pretty girls, for very little contact. clubs have been catering to cheapos who want the most bang for their buck, and they're losing the big spenders because of it.
    ^^^ this is the reason behind the exception I mentioned regarding high end 'clean' clubs that cater to 'professionals' and businessmen who DON'T want to risk potential personal involvement in a possible club bust. Indeed these sort of 'professionals' and businessmen are being driven away from many clubs where the 'extras' quotient has been rising to the point where a club bust is increasingly likely ... thus these 'professionals' and businessmen are no longer available as club customers to provide higher earnings potential for 'clean' dancers working in 'extras' clubs.

    But there is a flip side problem i.e. that any club who chooses to confine their offerings to 'clean' dancers also potentially loses the dancer earnings potential, as well as the cover charges and minimum drink sales revenue, that would have come from customers expecting 'extras' ( who obviously aren't likely to patronize a 'clean' club ). Thus for such a 'clean' club to be economically viable, it needs to be located in an area where there are still enough high earning / big spending 'professionals' and businessmen to not only support the club itself but also to provide enough dancer earnings potential to attract and retain top shelf 'clean' dancers ( i.e. 'professionals' and businessmen aren't likely to patronize a 'clean' club with out of shape, mediocre dancers ).

    Typically, given the current economy, this can only happen in very large cities with a relatively high number of 'professionals' and/or businessmen ... which means that the upscale 'clean' club business model is not likely to remain economically viable for clubs located in suburban settings or in smaller cities. And, for better or worse, this also means that 'clean' dancers in suburban settings or in smaller cities are going to have fewer and fewer 'professionals' and/or businessmen willing to spend freely in the absence of 'extras', and more and more working class / middle class customers who are going to expect 'extras' and will be disappointed if the 'clean' dancer won't deliver.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    ^^^this seems to be the case in my city. By far our cleanest club caters to businessmen and it also brings in the most money. Last month, they cleared $1 million in profit (which was a record breaking month for the whole city in terms of how slow it was) and the second most profitable club only cleared $600k profit....nearly half! This club is arguably the city's dirtiest and also has by far the most expensive rooms and cover charges (though no alcohol revenue). The club that has a $240 house fee and 20% cut of hardcore extras is doing half as well as the one with little to no cut and little to no extras...and every other club which is less extreme than those two is doing even WORSE.

    How do you know all those figures?
    I agree with everything that's said here, IME men who want extras generally have the least money to actually spend, in the same way that the ones groping you on the floor are the ones who aren't buying dances.
    They've seen the movies that give the wrong impression of our line of work and they just don't know strip club etiquette. And no one bothers to inform them. If you do, they 'got it from another girl over there' - something which I can never figure out if it's true or a manipulation tactic.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    IME men who want extras generally have the least money to actually spend, in the same way that the ones groping you on the floor are the ones who aren't buying dances.
    They've seen the movies that give the wrong impression of our line of work and they just don't know strip club etiquette
    I would add a bit of clarification ...

    The men who actually have the least money to spend in clubs are the economically hard pressed former middle class customers of suburban 'clean' clubs ... who are now so economically hard pressed that they can't go to those suburban clubs as often, or at all. This potential revenue is lost to the clubowners, 'clean' dancers, and 'dirty' dancers alike.

    Arguably, the customers who now come to 'dirty' clubs in expectation of receiving 'extras' aren't necessarily limiting their general club spending based on personal lack of money to spend. Instead they are minimizing / avoiding spending on dancers who won't provide them 'extras', in order to divert the funds they do have towards paying other dancers who WILL provide the HJ's, BJ's and FS they came to the club to obtain. In pre-internet days, 'clean' dancers could at least count on some spending by customers seeking 'extras' being made in their direction in order for the customer to determine whether the 'clean' dancer would actually provide 'extras' once in the private dance area and offered a fistful of cash. However, these days, 'extras' customers on a budget can usually determine quite easily in advance via club customer websites / club review websites etc. which dancers do provide 'extras' at a particular club versus which dancers won't - thus allowing these 'extras' customers to direct their spending towards those dancers who will provide the 'extras' they seek. This potential revenue is thus lost to 'clean' dancers, but still available to clubowners and to 'dirty' dancers.

    The super-upscale big city 'clean' club exception is a different story. The 'professionals' and businessmen who comprise this customer base probably have absolutely no shortage of funds available. So while this potential revenue source is still available to clubowners and to 'clean' dancers, it is ONLY available to top shelf 'clean' dancers who are able to 'make the cut' and be hired by the super-upscale big city 'clean' club.

    Putting this all together, the industry segments who are and who will continue to be hurt the most by this changing business model are A. 'clean' dancers, top shelf and otherwise, who do not live in very large cities, and B. 'clean' dancers living / willing to travel to very large cities who can't 'make the cut' to be hired by a super-upscale big city 'clean' club, and C. owners of suburban and smaller city clubs who cannot / will not allow 'extras' to be offered in their club.

    I would also add that for those 'clean' dancers who CAN 'make the cut' to be hired by a super-upscale big city 'clean' club ... don't count on being able to keep working at this club indefinitely. As the 'extras' quotient continues to rise in other clubs, and as suburban 'clean' clubs go bankrupt, an ever lengthening stream of displaced top shelf 'clean' dancers from other clubs, as well as would-be new top shelf dancers, will constantly be knocking on the doors of these clubs. The tastes of the 'professional' and businessmen customers who patronize the super-upscale big city 'clean' clubs constantly pressures club management to maintain / upgrade the 'quality' of the dancers available.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-17-2011 at 08:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Honestly you can trace this trend right back to September 11. Dancing was totally different before that. The economy has been in terrible shape since then; everyone was afraid first and angry later, and have hardly ever been in a giving vein again; everyone's too worried about money to spend much. The world is more cynical, and in every industry it's been necessary to give the customer more for less. Read Memoirs of a Geisha and think of all of them leaving Tokyo during the war, because there was no money, no one there to support them.

    This is the nature of the business during a wartime depression; the economy simply won't support anything else. If I were you I'd hold out hope for a Democrat during a time of peace, because then you'll be making money hand over fist. The Clinton years were the stuff of dreams. We hardly had to do a damn thing besides be beautiful and not ignore the customers. Those were the days...
    Left the biz after more than 15 years; still miss it today. Deeply passionate about the rights of the women in it and the way it acts as a barometer of sexual health and gender-relations in our society. Committed to helping women in the industry find a sense of cultural context and feminist relevance; your health and happiness help the business - and the culture around it - evolve.


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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    What you are describing sounds like my club, except for the number of customers that come in. It gets really packed here on the weekends. But the girls are not fit/sloppy looking and crass in general here.

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    Default Re: Club going downhill

    Honestly you can trace this trend right back to September 11. Dancing was totally different before that
    Yup agreed ... I can trace it back to that very day !!! While there were undoubtedly other factors, the key point IMHO was that the 'fearless optimism' of the 90's was almost instantly replaced with some element of fear and uncertainty in the minds of club customers. This caused them to hold back on spending on 'discretionary' items like lap dances and private rooms, and also created an increased expectation of receiving more 'bang' for the bucks they were still willing to spend.

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