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Thread: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

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    WWW Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    Is anyone a employee instead of independent contractor?
    Last edited by gingersnap; 05-21-2013 at 03:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    before teamdoomandgloom pops up, dancers once earned hourly wages and nothing imploded.

    so all of the "you'll be forced at gunpoint to dance for the worst criminals on the planet" shit is absolute nonsense because have you ever been to the post office? those are government employees and they do whatever the fuck they want.

    whatever changes are made will probably be temporarily punitive and then will quietly disappear. speaking of which, whatever happened to boston clubs?

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    whatever changes are made will probably be temporarily punitive and then will quietly disappear
    I will again raise the inarguable point that transitioning from independent contractor to employee status will PERMANENTLY divert strip club customer dollars away from dancers and the clubowner, and towards the gov't. Examples are payment of worker's comp insurance premiums, payment of unemployment insurance premiums etc. No matter how it's sliced and diced, this is money that formerly went into dancers' and clubowners' pockets that will now go to your state capital.

    I will also raise the inarguable point that transitioning from independent contractor to employee status will PERMANENTLY decrease the earnings of 'top shelf' dancers. The reason for this can be summed up by the word 'reapportionment'. If every dancer must be paid the same $2.95 an hour tipped minimum wage, and if every dancer's workers comp and unemployment insurance premiums are essentially the same, this represents a 'fixed cost' to the employer for every employee dancer. With house fees / stage fees outlawed for employee dancers, clubowners will have no choice but to collect 'revenue' from dancers via claiming a 33%-50% share of private dances / VIP's. 'Mediocre' dancers who aren't able to sell many private dances / VIP's may not provide enough 'revenue' to the clubowner to cover the costs of their own tipped minimum wage and benefit costs. These costs will then be 'subsidized' by the club claiming the same 33%-50% share of the far greater number of private dances / VIP's sold by 'top shelf' dancers, and transferring the excess 'revenue' towards subsidizing the costs of providing tipped minimum wage and workers comp / unemployment insurance benefits for the 'mediocre' dancers.

    I was was working at one club that lost an 'employee dancer' lawsuit ... and immediately quit working there as soon as 'employee' treatment of dancers was adopted and a 50% club 'cut' of private dance / VIP room sales was enacted. So did a couple of the other 'top shelf' dancers. As a result, the club's reputation for talent declined, the calibre of club customers declined, 'official' income levels of the remaining employee dancers declined etc. In the end, some of the remaining dancers figured out that customer cash payments for 'extras' were the only source of income that no longer had to be shared with the club, as well as cash 'extras' income being the only remaining income source that did not have to be fully reported to the club / IRS ... thus 'extras' quickly became the club's new business model.


    so all of the "you'll be forced at gunpoint to dance for the worst criminals on the planet" shit is absolute nonsense because have you ever been to the post office? those are government employees and they do whatever the fuck they want.
    There are some HUGE differences in this attempted comparison. First of all, nobody is going to force US taxpayers to subsidize a strip club when they are incapable of generating enough 'revenue' to pay the salaries and benefit costs of the club's 'employees' the way that the money-losing USPS can. Second, unlike the monopoly protected USPS which can float a postage price increase with relative impunity, any attempt by one particular club to increase prices for private dances / VIP's is immediately going to prompt club customers to take their business to the other club across town which has not increased prices !

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-21-2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    Quote Originally Posted by gingersnap View Post
    Is anyone a employee instead of independent contractor? What changes are or have taken place?
    What club is this? I dance in cali too that's why i'm curious.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    Quote Originally Posted by camille27 View Post
    before teamdoomandgloom pops up, dancers once earned hourly wages and nothing imploded.

    so all of the "you'll be forced at gunpoint to dance for the worst criminals on the planet" shit is absolute nonsense because have you ever been to the post office? those are government employees and they do whatever the fuck they want.

    whatever changes are made will probably be temporarily punitive and then will quietly disappear. speaking of which, whatever happened to boston clubs?
    When I first started one of the clubs paid us to dance. They did take half of our dance fee. There was both negative and positive of this. The club was slow so at least being paid I made something. However, if clubs are busy the money will slow for dancers. Basically the idea is that the more hustling type dancers (I was one)will end up making less than they would, and the less motivated dancers (aka the ones who sit in the dressing room)will make more money. Is all of this true? to some extent but on the other hand it's a good feeling making something instead of going broke.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    ^ Have any of you worked in high dollar corporate clubs or any manhattan club? They already take almost 50% of vips and I've worked in plenty of clubs were I was an i.c. were after tip out the club got about 50% of earnings. Being an employee is different from club to club. Deja vue had that option but I chose i.c. it sounded ok but you had to make a schedule and since I traveled in I couldn't but you had a lesser fee and hours you worked requirement. now i denver I had the option at a vcg club to be an emloythee all he told me when I said can I read it over and bring it back was........yes but you can't work until you do. All he would say was if I chose employee I would give all my earnings to the club and get an hourly wage and they could tell me when to come and go so I signed i.c. In chicago at vips the only club I've ever gotten an hourly wage everything was the same just you got paid by the hour. Anyways get a copy of the contract and bring it to a lawyer who can explain laymans tearms what it means. Is this deja vue?

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    honestly, i just assumed that if you chose "employee" at deja vu, they simply would decline to hire you.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    I've never worked in NY so no idea how it works. However, I did once work at a club where they wanted a house fee of around $50 or so (probably more but can't remember), 50% of dance/VIP fee and expected us to tip staff. That to me is wrong and if you are paying you shouldn't have to pay 50% of dance fees too. I ended up quitting soon after. I will say though that I never understand how a dance could be an independent contractor yet still have rules like when you work, when you come in,even when you eat dinner or lunch. I suppose if I had the choice to get paid and pay 50% or be an independent contractor and pay them fees in addition to the 50% I'd chose working for the club.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    ^ Last I worked vips I paid 180 when I walked in the door 20% of what I made at the end of the night 50 to dj to be skipped, 20 to housemom, 10 makeup, 10 valet and 25% of funny money cashed in but it was worth it as that club has extremely high earning potential. I think they still considered you an i.c they just payed you 5.15 an hour so they could have control over when you worked etc but I never gave a schedule since I traveled in to work.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    Quote Originally Posted by gingersnap View Post
    Is anyone a employee instead of independent contractor? What changes are or have taken place?
    This very nearly happened in Indianapolis when I danced there. The IRS and Indiana Department of Revenue romped through town assessing wait staff at the better restaurants and bars for failure to pay their self employment and income taxes. At the same time the IRS and DOR issued jeopardy assessments against the bars and restaurants for failing to pay their share of employment taxes on all the supposed independent contractors who were on the wait staff. Almost overnight the high end restaurants and bars started keeping the books the way the IRS and DOR wanted, started withholding based on "expected" tips and issuing W-2s or 1099s as required. The doom and gloom squad cried and whined about how this was taking money out of wait staff's hands. Well, guess what? There are still high end waiters in Indy and bartenders too. Gross pay went up, so did withholding. But, people weren't facing jeopardy assessments that could send them to jail. When the IRS or DOR wants to play hardball, they can. It's a trade-off. Pay your fair share of taxes or try to run under the radar. But, be assured, there are plenty of people out there who are willing to work in a W-2 job that has workers compensation and unemployment insurance attached to it.

    HTH
    Z

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    ^^^ also true regarding the IRS + state income tax agency 'assaults' on waitstaff / barstaff at Casinos !!! And yes it is undoubtedly true that there are girls out there who are willing to work at a W2 job as a waitress / bartender. However, as you point out in a low key manner, it is typically only the 'high end' bars and restaurants where the available tip income available from an 'upscale' customer base provides enough additional earning power to make these W2 jobs 'lucrative'.

    And as you don't point out but is undeniably the case, the girls who actually stand a shot at being hired for these most lucrative W2 waitress and bartending jobs are selected from the 'top 5%'. In fact, many high end establishments from the Bellagio to Disney World have gone to court to maintain their legal right to fire 'employees' who fail to maintain the same appearance, weight etc. as when they were hired for these high end positions. The only real point I'm trying to make here is that for every casino bartendr or chic restaurant waitress that is working in an environment where she can rake in $30+ an hour there are also 19 other waitresses serving coffee at truckstops / serving cheap food at family restaurants / serving $2 beers to blue collar workers etc. for 1/3rd of that amount.

    There's also the issue that the $10 an hour 'truckstop' waitresses aren't required to remove their clothing or grind on customers' laps !!! Are there girls who would be willing to work for $10 an hour as employee 'strippers' ... undoubtedly there are !! However, it's HIGHLY doubtful that girls who are willing to accept a $10 an hour level of average dancing earnings ( pre-tax ) are also going to offer 'high end' appearance / skills. And without a full complement of girls who all offer 'high end' appearance / skills, it's impossible for a club to maintain a 'high end' atmosphere to attract upscale high spending customers ( well, in the absence of 'extras' anyhow ). And this brings us full circle to my previous post.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-22-2011 at 02:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    I doubt there will be benefits.
    Last edited by gingersnap; 05-21-2013 at 03:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    ^ These stupid chicks think they're going to end up with a couple hundred grand of something and end up with around a couple hundred or a few thousand after all is said and done since the lawyer gets 30% and there's like thousands of girls involved. I never opted out of the ones I received from ricks and deja vu so I hope I'm not blacklisted from the clubs, they shouldn't just assume you want to be involved! The lawyers shouldn't have the right to involve you in a class action suit just because you worked for the company! What corporation is this suit for?

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    Default Re: Lawsuit is gonna f it all up. Dont want to be a employee

    I doubt there will be benefits
    If dancers are defined as statutory 'employees', then states mandate that the 'employer' provide them with worker's comp and unemployment insurance at the very least. This is a hot topic right now since persistent high unemployment rates have already completely drained state unemployment funds in many states. Given the high 'risk factors' typically assigned to exotic dancers by state insurance funds, paying worker's comp and unemployment insurance premiums for dancers can cost the 'employer' club almost as much as the $2.95 an hour minimum wage dancer payroll does.


    Also maybe only allowed to work under 40 hours a week
    Actually, many states define 'full time employee' as any worker putting in more than 24 hours per week. Many states also mandate additional minimum benefits for 'full time employees'. Thus if an employer clubowner is going to be forced to pay for the costs of additional 'full time employee' benefits if dancers are allowed to work lots of hours, odds are that 'employee' dancer schedules will be limited to 24 hours max per week.

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