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Thread: Stupid?

  1. #1
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    Default Stupid?

    Ok so I'm 21 in college. I have to do 2 extra semesters in school due to situations that were beyond my control. My parents think it's only one. I didn't tell them because after one of my parents told me that "I don't take school seriously (bsing)" because I got a bad grade in a class in my Sophmore year I tell them NOTHING. They don't even pay for me to be there.

    Anyways, at home I'm told how to keep my room arranged, when to clean, I hate the new area my parents moved because the public transportation sucks and none of my friends live around here, my dad put his hands on me a while back, I contstantly get accused of leaving messing around the house, and have to clean up behind grown people. plus I have to share a room with my younger brother. If I want to stay out to 4 AM it's a problem, and my parents don't live friends over in there house. My parents are always telling me that "your're 21 still living at home! You don't like the rules then leave."

    I am happy anywhere but here. I have over a grand saved up to stay over the winter break at school. I also want to find a job (in addition to strip clubs) up at my school town as well.

    Am I stupid for this decision or not? HELP!

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    Featured Member Spinnerette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Stupid to want to move out and live your life like the adult you are? No. Not at all.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    Stupid to want to move out and live your life like the adult you are? No. Not at all.
    Thanks.

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    Featured Member Natalllia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stupid?

    It's definitely time to move out. Even if you struggle financially at first, there is nothing like being in control of your own life.

    There's nothing stupid about being an adult and removing yourself from a bad situation.
    "I didn't discover curves; I only uncovered them"
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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natalllia View Post
    It's definitely time to move out. Even if you struggle financially at first, there is nothing like being in control of your own life.

    There's nothing stupid about being an adult and removing yourself from a bad situation.
    Thanks so much.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    I had a situation like this, except my family was a bit dependent on me. I was dumb and moved back in when I transferred universities, and the manipulation began again. My mother would call me nonstop if I didn't answer a text within two minutes, and it didn't matter what time it was, if she wanted to start a fight, I "had" to be home. Once you remove yourself from that environment, the amount of stress that will be lifted will amaze you. Get out.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Assuming that you are an American, and given that you are a college student, the only caveat I would throw out there is the issue of 'emancipation'.

    Where student grants / loans are concerned, FAFSA and the IRS generally considers any full time college student to still be a 'dependent' of their parents, up to the age of 24. This forces the 'unemancipated' college student to allow her parents to utilize her personal tax exemption and exclusions on THEIR tax return ( which results in the 'unemancipated' college student dancer to have to pay a higher tax rate on her own earnings ). Additionally, this forces the 'unemancipated' college student's grant money to be based on total household income ... which includes both her own dancing income plus her parents' income.

    In order for a 21 year old full time college student to become 'emancipated', this basically requires a court order ... which begins with an attorney paid for by the college student filing a court motion. Being successful in court generally requires that the student's officially reported income level be verifiable ( i.e. past tax returns, paycheck stubs etc. ), plus sufficient to cover the costs of independent living AND her college tuition. Generally speaking, the existance of 'undocumented' dancing income will not be pursuasive in court. Also, attempting to raise the issue of the existance of 'undocumented' dancing income in court will very probably attract unwanted IRS attention for both the student dancer and her parents. Additionally, attempting to raise the issue may also attract the attention of FAFSA ... who will pursue the parents of an 'unemancipated' college student for repayment of student grant money that the college student has already received, but would not have been eligible for had her 'undocumented' dancing income been added ( as required by law ) to the 'total household income' number upon which the grant application filed by the parents was based. In extreme cases, FAFSA can also pursue a 'fraud' claim against the parents who filed the grant application ( although this is usually dismissed in exchange for immediate repayment of the ineligibly received student grant money).

    Once 'emancipated', the amount of future student grant money will only be based on the full time student dancer's reported income. Also the student dancer will be able to 'claim herself' on her own tax return thus significantly reducing the amount of taxes she owes ( and at the same time significantly increasing the amount of taxes her parents owe ). These differences can be worth thousands of dollars per year ( sometimes tens of thousands ). And I would point out that, while it may be possible for an 'unemancipated' student dancer to get away with 'undocumented' income without getting caught by the IRS while still living with her parents ( providing that her club doesn't issue 1099's etc to the IRS ), once she is living independently this isn't very likely. Her landlord, utility companies, the college bursars' office etc. are going to start reporting payments in the student dancer's name, and eventually IRS computers are likely to go searching for tax returns in the same student dancer's name to explain where the money to pay those bills came from in the first place.

    On the negative side, 'emancipated' college students become ineligible for 'dependent' health and life insurance coverage under their parents' employee benefit plans. This typically isn't much of an issue for a healthy 21 year old who isn't likely to develop serious health problems, and who in the worst case has little to lose in the way of personal assets if serious injury / health problems were to lead to major uninsured medical costs that would be best addressed by a bankruptcy filing. This situation may change in 2014 if and when US National Health Insurance is implemented as 'promised'.

    Of course, it's still possible for an 'unemancipated' student dancer to live independently. But her parents are going to have to report her dancing income in addition to their own income on future FAFSA student grant applications ... which may greatly reduce the amount of grant money for which she is eligible. The 'unemancipated' student dancer is still going to be creating a 'paper trail' of rent and utility payments ... which will effectively force her to report her income, file tax returns, and pay SSI and income taxes on that reported income. And without being able to 'claim herself' on her own tax returns, her effective tax rate is likely to be in the 30%+ range. Obviously a student dancer who can earn $40k+ per year ( pre-tax ) won't have any major financial solvency concerns as an 'unemancipated' student living independently. But a student dancer who is only earning $20k per year ( pre-tax ) might very well face cash flow issues as an 'unemancipated' student living independently i.e. having to choose between making the required estimated tax payments on her dancing income versus paying her tuition, rent and utility bills.

    There are of course other ways for a 21 year old college student to achieve 'emancipation'. The first is to quit college !!! The second is to get married !!!

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-26-2011 at 06:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    ^^ She stated that the parents don't pay for the schooling so would the 'dependent' status still apply?? Would not all of the tax benefits stay with her?

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    ^ She won't be eligible for the PELL grant until she's 24, because she's still considered as a dependent. This applies even if she's living on her own and does not get one penny from her parents. (Unless, I suppose, she goes through the emancipation process).

    Like you said, if she's already footing her own college bills, she's already had to deal with this issue. I don't see how moving out on her own is going to affect anything.
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    Default Re: Stupid?

    You are 21 and have to share a room with your younger brother??? hell no... I would not be ok with that.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Actually I receive all federal and state aid. I use my moms tax return info and my EFC is always nothing. So if I move out I'm screwed.

    Unless I "rent" a hotel like some of my friends do???

    HELP!

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie_tinydancer View Post
    You are 21 and have to share a room with your younger brother??? hell no... I would not be ok with that.
    Yeah he's 18. I HATE IT!

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Actually I receive all federal and state aid. I use my moms tax return info and my EFC is always nothing.
    Well, that apparently means that you are not 'emancipated'. But it also means that your mom's income level is pretty low, such that there's no real penalty as far as federal and state grant money goes if you decide to live independently while still being 'unemancipated'.

    However, you're going to need reasonably good credit ( and verifiable income ) or lots of cash to set yourself up as living independently. Landlords and utility companies are going to want to know how much income you have coming in ... and they're probably going to at least see a bank statement showing regular deposits, or better yet past tax returns, as proof of that income. Fortunately, in most 'college towns', you can usually find a 'mom & pop' landlord to rent from that won't make you jump through too many hoops.


    She won't be eligible for the PELL grant until she's 24, because she's still considered as a dependent. This applies even if she's living on her own and does not get one penny from her parents. (Unless, I suppose, she goes through the emancipation process).
    That's exactly it. Any full time college student is considered to still be a 'dependent' of the parents by both the IRS and by FAFSA in the absence of an 'emancipation' ruling by a court. Being a 'dependent' means having to consider all income sources in the 'legal' household ( which includes parents and student ) even if the student isn't actually living in the parents' household. Being a 'dependent' means the student is not able to 'claim' themselves on their own tax return, which results in a 'swing' of at least $3,800 in additional taxes to the student but reduced taxes for the parent on the personal exemption alone, plus the dollar value amount of the tax deduction for tuition paid that the parent can claim but the student cannot.

    However, with the additional info that the OP is living in a parental household where she is forced to share a bedroom with an 18 year old brother, and a financial situation where her 'low income' parents aren't actually providing any meaningful financial assistance toward her college, there are pretty good odds that if she were to file an 'emancipation' motion that it would succeed. The 'good news' is that most colleges have some source of 'free' legal aid for students ... which may be able to file an 'emancipation' motion at a very low cost !

    Now for the difficult question ... has the OP actually reported her dancing income and filed tax returns in past years ? But if the OP only started dancing in 2011 there's really not a problem is nothing exists from prior years. However, if the OP does file a tax return in 2012 and reports her 2011 dancing income, which will be necessary if she moves out and starts living independently, this also means that she needs to have the cash on hand to pay a 15% SSI+medicare tax, plus some additional amount of federal ( and perhaps state ) income tax, on her 2011 dancing earnings. Even at $400 a week = $20,000 per year, this could amount to $ 3000 SSI plus perhaps another $2,000 federal income tax ( unless she can get an 'emancipation' ruling before the end of 2011 that would allow her to 'claim' herself plus claim her own college tuition tax credit on her own 2011 tax return ).


    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-26-2011 at 08:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Sighs...so basically I'm screwed until I graduate? I want to leave but it seems like that would screw my financial aid all up... besides it's just for breaks. I'm really only off campus during small breaks and summers.

    =(=(=(

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    ^^^ no, even if you don't pursue 'emancipation', if your parents' income level is low enough that you wind up with a zero Expected Family Contribution, you won't get hurt at all in terms of student grant money if you decide to live independently. Well, that's the case as long as your parents are still willing to file as if you were still 'legally' living at home ( i.e. your new apartment would be 'legally' considered as off-campus student housing ). But your personal income tax situation may change ... depending on how you have handled the payment of taxes on your dancing income so far !

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-26-2011 at 08:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ no, if your parents' income level is low enough that you wind up with a zero Expected Family Contribution, you won't get hurt at all in terms of student grant money if you decide to live independently. But your personal income tax situation may change ... depending on how you have handled the payment of taxes on your dancing income so far !
    Gotcha. So if I live alone then I still use my parents info, or my own...because most FAFSAs require the parents info. My parents would probably be bitter and try to be like do everything on your own. I just want to make sure that I can just claim my own finances and be cool with school, that's what really matters.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Until you are 24, you are still dependent whether or not your parents support you (at least in CA). It's incredibly hard to declare yourself independent and you generally have to jump through hoops to prove your parents are insane or on the run or something else extreme. Just saying "they don't help me" doesn't cut it unfortunately.
    Fact. I even tried claiming I was orphaned and they basically told me tough shit.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    You're considered independent if you have a dependent yourself or are a veteran. I live at my dad's house here in FL but I have a kid and am a vet so... I can apply for aid and pocket it since the GI Bill pays my tuition anyway.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    I just want to move, but still use my parents info. Damn didn't know it would be that hard. It's only for breaks.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Until you are 24, you are still dependent whether or not your parents support you (at least in CA). It's incredibly hard to declare yourself independent and you generally have to jump through hoops to prove your parents are insane or on the run or something else extreme. Just saying "they don't help me" doesn't cut it unfortunately.
    The PELL grant is federal, so the age 24 thing is in every U.S. state.

    This whole issue is the reason (or one of them, anyway) that I waited until I was 25 to take any college classes.
    Last edited by Natalllia; 11-26-2011 at 09:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natalllia View Post
    ^ She won't be eligible for the PELL grant until she's 24, because she's still considered as a dependent. This applies even if she's living on her own and does not get one penny from her parents. (Unless, I suppose, she goes through the emancipation process).
    I'm listed as dependent but my EFC is zero and I got the maximum allowed PELL grant every year I applied, even when I had private scholarships and something like $40,000/year from the school I was at.

    I'm a little confused now though. If you only need a place to live during breaks, then I'm guessing that means you live on campus during the school year... So why would you bother with any sort of remotely permanent living arrangement if you'll only be out for a couple of months, tops? Most apartment complexes do six or twelve month leases, while some will do three or month-by-month, but those often cost extra. Not a great investment, imo. Why don't you just try to find an extra room for rent that you can pay cash for during the summer? And during other breaks, just get a hotel near a club or stay with a friend.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuesdaymarie View Post
    I'm listed as dependent but my EFC is zero and I got the maximum allowed PELL grant every year I applied, even when I had private scholarships and something like $40,000/year from the school I was at.

    I'm a little confused now though. If you only need a place to live during breaks, then I'm guessing that means you live on campus during the school year... So why would you bother with any sort of remotely permanent living arrangement if you'll only be out for a couple of months, tops? Most apartment complexes do six or twelve month leases, while some will do three or month-by-month, but those often cost extra. Not a great investment, imo. Why don't you just try to find an extra room for rent that you can pay cash for during the summer? And during other breaks, just get a hotel near a club or stay with a friend.
    This was my plan...the month-by-month, hotel, or friend option. Not like a long lease, that would be too expensive. No way would I be able to work full-time and go to school.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Thanks for all the informative advice ladies, I appreciate it.

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    Default Re: Stupid?

    Stupid? Girl, I think moving out will be the best decision you ever made!


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    Default Re: Stupid?

    You can still be a dependent and live in on or off campus housing. Use your parents address as your mailing address.

    99% of the college students are still dependents and they even when they are not living at home! A school address is not like really changing your permanent address. You'll be fine.

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