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Thread: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

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    Default Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    I am considering doing my Master's thesis on a particular aspect of economics within this industry, namely elasticity of demand. If possible, I am considering developing a short 10 question survey and wondered if a few people who work in this industry might be interested in taking it. The questions would be mostly open ended.

    Thank you,

    TR

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    The elasticity of demand in this industry is directly tied to that of all high-end entertainment. ITs not directly tied to prostitution though because there is a lot of "low cost" prostitution always available due to the enslavement of women into forced servitude.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    I'm not even a dancer but I'm surprised no one ha stickied a thread for
    No, we don't want to help you write your book/magazine article/term paper unless you pay

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    I'm game!



    Quote Originally Posted by Asian Sensation View Post
    I'm not even a dancer but I'm surprised no one ha stickied a thread for
    No, we don't want to help you write your book/magazine article/term paper unless you pay
    LOL! I didn't even think of it this way!
    I can see why some people may have a problem with this, but I guess for me I don't have an issue answering a small survey to help someone with their thesis research. Especially since this seems to actually have some thought put into it.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Um, they are just 'considering' the thesis, and 'considering' the survey and of course the questions are 'open-ended'.

    Sounds like another tourist, really.

    People who are actually doing this type of research do not come at it all vague like this poster.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Sorry for the late response. If you're interested please send me a private message. The social-economic elements at play here are not entirely dissimilar to that of other industries, but if there are unique aspects, I hope to uncover them.

    TR

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Strong, I think the term you were looking for is socioeconomic elements, one which you would be familiar with if you were really taking Masters level economics classes. Also, I sincerely doubt that you would be completing a Master's thesis on a concept as basic as price and demand elasticity, and particularly in one small sub-segment of a much larger adult entertainment industry. It is purely discretionary entertainment, so intuitively demand for strip club services will be highly elastic. Wow, what a revelation - but thanks for playing.

    Dude, run your game somewhere else. Seriously.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    ^ I think the fact that it's discretionary is less important than it's a luxury expenditure -- at least at the high end of the market -- and luxuries are almost by definition inelastic in terms of the demand curve because changes in price tend to have little effect on the actual level of demand.

    And there are many examples where the opposite is true, as you know -- demand has tended to evaporate even at current cost, and a downward pricing spiral begins just to keep the doors open.

    Of course, we could argue this either way until the dinosaurs come around again because nobody has done a large enough statistical analysis of the overall industry to even begin to have this discussion, much less to have one that focuses on industry sectors, which is exactly what would be required to come up with any worthwhile analysis.

    On that point, I was even more amused by how our genius troll proposes to address such a rigorous quantitative subject like demand elasticity -- after all, it's a formula itself -- by "an open ended" questionnaire that is all of 10 questions in length.

    Oh, wait -- it's to be given to a statistically insignificant cohort, which in turn has an ingrained self-reporting bias.

    I really wish our trolls had better imaginations, honestly. Or even basic literacy in the little scam they are trying to run. When they post things as blindingly stupid as this, they are just insulting the intelligence of the entire community.
    Last edited by All Good Things; 11-30-2011 at 10:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    TOO, I agree that the price elasticity of demand in high-end luxury goods is fairly inelastic, but I do not believe that the services offered in strip clubs really fall into that category in a classic sense. SCs serve a much broader population and, IMHO, there are numerous examples to be found of the correlation between price and the quantity of services currently being purchased in particular clubs.

    Yoda raised one good example recently of what happened when Club Fantasies in Providence tried to raise LD prices. Demand dropped drastically, which ultimately led to CF taking action to try to correct the problem. I also visit a number of clubs where LDs are typically hard to sell at $25-30 per song, but for which demand rises dramatically when the LDs are discounted through 2 for 1s or other promotions. Now experiences may differ here, but IME there is a high degree of correlation between the cost of LDs and the number that are purchased.

    Without belaboring it, my experience is similar in terms of VIPs and CRs, though a case could be made that there is less elasticity when one is talking about people who are more likely to consume higher end club offerings. However, a number of clubs have started offering shorter VIP options in order to increase sales, so clearly they seem to believe that there is some elasticity there as well.

    Again, these comments are based solely upon my own experiences and observations, which are far from scientific or all-inclusive, but there it is fwiw.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    ^ Yes, I largely agree -- see the second paragraph in my post, above.

    The point I was making is that there is no demand elasticity that applies to the entire industry at all. It's a fragmented industry with dramatically different markets and business models.

    I do think -- based solely on my club experiences -- that there are still a number of clubs catering to the high-end and operating at prices that would ordinarily be considered exorbitant. I was surprised, for example, to find the CR at Centerfolds in Boston absolutely packed on a recent Friday night, and judging from the suits, the multiple girls per table and the champagne flowing for hours, everybody walked out of there with at least a 4-figure tab.

    We are all prone to extrapolate our own experiences to the larger club culture (or swap stories with people in our peer group), and neither of us has the data for the entire picture, so we are all at the mercy of an economic study that has yet to be done. And such a study will certainly never be done by our latest troll whose grasp of economics is akin to Phasganopyr's mastery of modern English grammar.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    I was surprised, for example, to find the CR at Centerfolds in Boston absolutely packed on a recent Friday night, and judging from the suits, the multiple girls per table and the champagne flowing for hours, everybody walked out of there with at least a 4-figure tab.
    I am actually not surprised by this at all. IMHO Boston is an example of what happens when heavy government regulation co-opts natural market forces. Shit, in all of my time doing this, my highest drink tabs were racked up right across the alley at the Slipper.

    When local gov't forces have such a strong influence that there are only two clubs in all of downtown Boston, the inevitable effect is that there will be a lot of money chasing limited talent. With that said, I'm not sure that one can hold up Centerfolds as a realistic example of demand elasticity as un-natural gov't intervention has drastically limited the supply side of the equation.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    ^ Let's first agree that it's a bit absurd for either of us to be discussing macroeconomic principles on the basis of zero empirical quantitative data.

    My posts in this thread were intended to be mostly parody, so I thought a reality check might be in order.

    But while we're on the subject, I thought it important to emphasize that there does exist a higher-tier market in the industry that I'm sure you are aware of. In fact, as you're an experienced clubber, I'm sure that you've adopted your own strategy on how and whether you will frequent them.

    You've often noted that you have skipped Manhattan in favor of the clubs in the other boroughs due to a host of reasons, one of the principal ones being ROI. (Yes, I know there are other factors, but let's stick with this one for the moment).

    I'm suggesting that there is a group that has somewhat of an opposing view in selecting clubs where, for example, ROI as defined on the blue side really doesn't enter into the picture at all.

    While I have absolutely no problem with any transaction of any kind between consenting adults, consenting species, or consenting extraterrestrials, or any combination of the three, I think it's important to at least recognize that there are customers who are looking for a particularly exclusive service where the monetary factor is not only borderline irrelevant, but may in fact be particularly attractive by virtue of being exorbitant. A straightforward example is the business executive entertaining very important clients where the amount the executive is spending on the client is a measure of that client's importance, a number that dramatically exceeds the five or six thousand the executive is spending that particular evening.

    While the population of such customers has declined with the disappearance of tax-deductible expense accounts, there nonetheless continues to exist a significant number of such customers who are owners of their own businesses or who work for broad-minded private companies whose balance sheets are not open to public scrutiny who are still willing to spend for these or related purposes and -- this is important -- all in the name of business self-interest. This leaves aside the stock-option rich, the trust-fund kids, the benefactors of enormous inherited wealth and the people who have sold their companies and taken up new hobbies, all of whom can also be seen spending at high levels in certain clubs.

    I'm not talking about the proverbial "1%" that is the subject of Occupy Wall Street outrage, but more about the "5%" who are actually employing people, continuing to invest their capital and grow their companies. There are times where expensive strip club outings are one of the means to do this.

    I recognize that not all of these people are necessarily virtuous in economic-benefit terms and even a quick read of the Sunday Magazine published by the Wall Street Journal -- a magic world in which the recession and job crunch are not only absent, but appear to have never existed at all -- suggest a population totally out of touch with the reality around them. Some aspects of this strike me as sad and outrageously unfair -- the watch porn ads alone are enough to make you want to bow your head and weep.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    *EDIT*

    Nevermind. I wrote a post defending the guy for, "Well maybe he's not a total tourist. He could just be in the early stages of his research and really shy." before I read the rest of the thread. His response threw the inconsistencies I noticed in the first post into sharp relief. Yep. Tourist.

    *sigh* I always want to believe the best of people.


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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    ^ Let's first agree that it's a bit absurd for either of us to be discussing macroeconomic principles on the basis of zero empirical quantitative data.

    My posts in this thread were intended to be mostly parody, so I thought a reality check might be in order.
    LOL. Well, this isn't exactly an academic study, but rather simply an Internet discussion forum. Having said that, of course I agree that we are flying blind and posting largely from limited personal experiences, but isn't that part of the fun?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    I'm suggesting that there is a group that has somewhat of an opposing view in selecting clubs where, for example, ROI as defined on the blue side really doesn't enter into the picture at all.

    While I have absolutely no problem with any transaction of any kind between consenting adults, consenting species, or consenting extraterrestrials, or any combination of the three, I think it's important to at least recognize that there are customers who are looking for a particularly exclusive service where the monetary factor is not only borderline irrelevant, but may in fact be particularly attractive by virtue of being exorbitant. A straightforward example is the business executive entertaining very important clients where the amount the executive is spending on the client is a measure of that client's importance, a number that dramatically exceeds the five or six thousand the executive is spending that particular evening.

    While the population of such customers has declined with the disappearance of tax-deductible expense accounts, there nonetheless continues to exist a significant number of such customers who are owners of their own businesses or who work for broad-minded private companies whose balance sheets are not open to public scrutiny who are still willing to spend for these or related purposes and -- this is important -- all in the name of business self-interest. This leaves aside the stock-option rich, the trust-fund kids, the benefactors of enormous inherited wealth and the people who have sold their companies and taken up new hobbies, all of whom can also be seen spending at high levels in certain clubs.

    I'm not talking about the proverbial "1%" that is the subject of Occupy Wall Street outrage, but more about the "5%" who are actually employing people, continuing to invest their capital and grow their companies. There are times where expensive strip club outings are one of the means to do this.
    Once upon a time I was one of those guys who used strip clubs as a tool in closing new relationships or to solidfy existing ones. And the clubs that I used to do so were indeed different than those I chose to patronize for my personal entertainment. Back in the day, when I was selling and servicing large scale engagements, my corporate Amex took a beating in establishments such as Scores (the old one, not the pale imitator that exists today), the Glass Slipper in Boston (it was the only SC in downtown Boston at the time) and Camelot (DC), among others.

    As you have noted, times have changed. Not only is transparency a real issue, but attitudes have changed as well. I am now a small business owner and an employer. I also sell services that have a fairly hefty price tag, but, while I would probably be lumped into some X%er category, I make no claim to great wealth. Having said all of that, I might use SCs today as a client entertainment option if I could, but corporate and individual attitudes in my industry are such that it is no longer appropriate to do so.

    I have spent a lot of money in SCs in the past decade and I could probably hire another capable full-time administrative employee for what I currently spend in clubs. But I am also very cognizant of the fact that there are some guys who can, and do, drop as much in a night as I will in two months or more. So be it and I wish these guys nothing but continued success. However, for me this is now all about personal entertainment and I will admit that, as I spend many nights each year in SCs spread out across the the country, ROI does factor into the equation.

    However, I cannot help but wonder just how many guys remain who are spending at truly lofty levels on a consistent basis. I also wonder just how many clubs are in a position to benefit from these types of customers.

    Anyway, just my for whatever it is actually worth.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 12-03-2011 at 08:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post

    While the population of such customers has declined with the disappearance of tax-deductible expense accounts, there nonetheless continues to exist a significant number of such customers who are owners of their own businesses or who work for broad-minded private companies whose balance sheets are not open to public scrutiny who are still willing to spend for these or related purposes and -- this is important -- all in the name of business self-interest. This leaves aside the stock-option rich, the trust-fund kids, the benefactors of enormous inherited wealth and the people who have sold their companies and taken up new hobbies, all of whom can also be seen spending at high levels in certain clubs.

    I'm not talking about the proverbial "1%" that is the subject of Occupy Wall Street outrage, but more about the "5%" who are actually employing people, continuing to invest their capital and grow their companies. There are times where expensive strip club outings are one of the means to do this.
    But is there a statistically significant amount of these spenders anymore? Also, there are regional issues to take into consideration. Manhatten, Boston, and DC aren't going to attract the same kind of client and dancer as the rest of the great big world.

    Even small business owners are feeling the crunch too. What I'm saying is that these 5% described above are also only accessible to about 5% of strippers. You need 30% for any type of significant impact.

    Even if these 5% account for 80% of a few stripper's incomes, there is simply not enough to go around and their spending would generally be more standard variation than a part of the predominant economic equation.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by KS_Stevia View Post
    But is there a statistically significant amount of these spenders anymore? Also, there are regional issues to take into consideration. Manhatten, Boston, and DC aren't going to attract the same kind of client and dancer as the rest of the great big world.
    Yup. Out of an estimated 2500+ clubs nationwide, Manhattan, Boston and DC host, cumulatively, only 25 of them. And I can tell you that a few of the Manhattan clubs are crappy little holes in the wall and a couple of the DC clubs are ghetto joints, so the clubs in those areas that are likely accomodating serious corporate spenders is probably some subset of the 25.

    Now I might also throw Chicago in the mix as well as it also has a small number of clubs serving a large and fairly wealthy population, but even then we would add only 6 clubs to the total, one of which is an ethnic joint that is a very unlikely spot for business entertainment.

    Now to be fair, there are also certain other metropolitan areas that, IME, have one or two clubs that seem to be the go-to spots for corporate types. A few clubs in Dallas come to mind, as does the Men's Club in Charlotte. And I have no doubt that there are other targeted examples in other areas with pockets of wealth.

    Nonetheless, I believe that if one was to add up all of the clubs nationwide that cater to a large number of high-end clients, the total would likely represent a very small percentage of the total club count.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Exactly. There are 3 clubs in Texas I can think of that have those kinds of spenders:
    1. The Lodge in Dallas, with maybe 2 other clubs that may also host some of these spenders. The rest of the Dallas clubs are $20 a dance no matter what, high contact.

    2. The Palace in San Antonio. The Spurs hang out there and so do a few spendy types as they have a nice dark separate VIP Skyboxx. No other clubs even comes close and most are just full of barely average girls and $5 dance nights.

    3. The Men's Club in Houston. Same as the above, almost every other club in Houston is basically too brothel-like to be able to take corporate guests.

    Now, this wasn't the situation 10 or even 5 years ago, but the part of the market that is inelastic has shrunk so much that we can probably say there are less than 50 clubs around the world where the TOO type spenders are prevalent enough to where a dancer can make a high consistent income from such spenders.

    Out of thousand's of clubs and hundreds of thousands of dancers out there, its just not enough to matter.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by KS_Stevia View Post
    Exactly. There are 3 clubs in Texas I can think of that have those kinds of spenders:
    1. The Lodge in Dallas, with maybe 2 other clubs that may also host some of these spenders. The rest of the Dallas clubs are $20 a dance no matter what, high contact.

    2. The Palace in San Antonio. The Spurs hang out there and so do a few spendy types as they have a nice dark separate VIP Skyboxx. No other clubs even comes close and most are just full of barely average girls and $5 dance nights.

    3. The Men's Club in Houston. Same as the above, almost every other club in Houston is basically too brothel-like to be able to take corporate guests.

    Now, this wasn't the situation 10 or even 5 years ago, but the part of the market that is inelastic has shrunk so much that we can probably say there are less than 50 clubs around the world where the TOO type spenders are prevalent enough to where a dancer can make a high consistent income from such spenders.

    Out of thousand's of clubs and hundreds of thousands of dancers out there, its just not enough to matter.
    Well, I would probably have put the number closer to 50 in the U.S. alone, but even that is still a small number. I probably highlighted about 20 or so in my initial roundup alone (including Dallas) and you have pulled out a couple of more in TX. Some others that come to mind are Cheetah (Atlanta), Delilah (Philly), Beamers (Stamford, CT, capturing the CT Gold Coast crowd), and perhaps a couple of the Vegas clubs. I would also not be surprised if there are a number of isolated examples in other money and/or population centers in areas that I do not travel to as much, such as the West Coast.

    But putting aside any quibble about the count, IMHO your point about the statistical insignificance is right on point. Even if my more optimistic guess is closer to the mark (and it may not be), we would only be talking about 2% or less of all clubs in the U.S., which of course means that 98% or more of the clubs in the U.S. are likely dealing with a high degree of price sensitivity in connection with their offerings.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    It's actually a lot like the housing market, a few high-priced areas, and the rest basically pretty affordable on a low-medium income.

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    Default Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    if any content is published here, you need the permission of both the author and the publisher (the owner of this site) to use it elsewhere.
    . . . . .
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 12-29-2011 at 01:50 PM.

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    Duh Re: Economics within the Stripping/Dancing Industry

    Wow, this section really has some prize ppl in it!


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