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Thread: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

  1. #26
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    ^^^ yes this is precisely why LJ adopted a pro-rated percentage payout based on paid sales rate. Think about it in the simplest terms. Camgirls putting out a 'free' video stream earn nothing for the webcam host but costs the webcam host $5-6 per hour in bandwidth cost if they are streaming HD. Top shelf camgirls spending the majority of their time putting out a 'paid' video stream are providing X $ per hour in webcam host revenue 'split' while STILL only costing the webcam host the same $5-6 per hour in bandwidth cost.

    When 480p video was the norm, the bandwidth cost might only have been $1.50 an hour, which allowed virtually every camgirl to bring in enough paid sales for the webcam host to 'break even'. But with 720p HD video, the $5-6 per hour bandwidth cost can inflict real economic losses on the webcam host unless the camgirl's sales rates are consistently above a certain threshold. Or put another way, HD is changing the webcam business model in a way that is NOT positive for the webcam hosts. HD is creating a situation where 'marginal' camgirls are inflicting monetary losses on their webcam hosts. Ultimately, if the adult webcam business model is to survive, the webcam hosts must deal with this by one means or another.

    LJ's tiered percentage structure still collects an 'excess' of revenue from top shelf camgirls in order to subsidize the 'marginal' camgirls ... but the subsidy is less than it was when every camgirl was assessed the same 50-60% 'split' regardless of the camgirls' actual paid sales rates. But the tiered percentage structure avoids setting a painful ( but IMHO eventually unavoidable ) precedent, i.e. 'firing' camgirls whose paid sales rates remain below the 'break-even' threshold, versus the actual bandwidth costs they are creating via their 'free chat's, for any extended period of time.

    In conventional business terms, HD has essentially increased the 'advertising costs' for the webcam host by a factor of 3 or 4. At the same time, that 'advertising' isn't actually bringing in a significantly increased amount of 'sales revenues' to cover that cost increase. A conventional business would deal with this situation by reducing their advertising costs ... which for webcam hosts would mean getting rid of camgirls whose paid sales rates are 'marginal'.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 12-01-2011 at 11:17 AM.

  2. #27
    Veteran Member shywebcamgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Last night was a freaking exercise in frustration for me on Streamate. The first hour was me just watching people log in and out of my room and finally someone told me that my cam was stuttering every two seconds. I logged in and out a million times, reinstalled flash, reinstalled my cam drivers, starting to use another browser and rebooted my computer from a cold state a couple of times and after it all I was still told by the people in my room that my cam's streaming was just 'tolerable'.

    It came to the point that I was pulling my hair out in free chat and a couple guys who were trying to help me by being my online tech support took me in private because I am pretty sure they were just literally taking pitty on me. It is the only reason I made any money at all last night.

    I am not even using the encoder right now because if everything is this screwed up I just don't want to add another factor to it, even if it does affect my placement.

  3. #28
    God/dess Cam_Model_Jess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    This makes sense. I've been talking about servers and bandwidth ever since SM came out with gold shows (aka Party Chat as they were first calling it).

    I told my SO that I'm assuming it's catching up with them. I've no "real" idea what I'm talking about where that kind of thing is concerned, I just know that I used to work at a company that had issues with this, it was expensive to fix, and we didn't have anywhere near the "needs" that SM has. There are lots of new models signing up every day, and there are lots of models getting these gold shows.

    I also know that when I've glanced at the first Home page or the first Couples page lately, I'm amazed at the kind of models they're hosting. If these were my models, I'd be having some serious talks with them. They look like catfish slugging around at the bottom of a pond. Bottom feeders. And they're being hosted near the top of the site because they're with studios, I'm guessing. Otherwise, there's no way they'd be up there because they never go private. Some just sleep on cam. And I'm not talking about voyeur shows either. I understand the slippery slope presented by "firing" models because of their earnings, but they do have rules and guidelines. Warning, suspending, and "letting go" some of the models who are not good representatives for the site is a sound business decision. SM is VERY obviously not running a charity for models. Also, the models whose comments reflect the fact that all they do is rip off customers... why would you want them on your site? If all they do is waste time when customers go private and never actually do a "show," they're contributing to the problem that other models are having with guys who demand a full show in 45 seconds.

    I suppose it's possible that they haven't started to consider this as a monetary issue yet. Or maybe they don't even have the resources to pay people to deal with models. Have no idea. But the issues raised here are interesting. My SO thinks that unless they start making some real changes soon, they're going to lose their customers and then their top models. I have no idea what other site they could make this kind of money on. But if my income started to seriously suffer because of the site, I'd have to leave. (And the "As is" clause in the contract lets you know that you really have no recourse... accept it or move on, unfortunately.)

  4. #29
    God/dess Cam_Model_Jess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Hm. Maybe SM would do well to adopt this structure. I bet they could pay out their top earners at 40% and their lower earners around 30-35% and they would make more money. Or set some kind of per hour goal so that they're not punishing models who work very few hours; and models can have more control over their earnings, kind of like how MFC has a cam score and models sign off when they know their score is going to take a hit. So on SM you could sign out when it's really slow. If you know your earnings are going to suffer, you probably wouldn't just lie around. Fewer models bottom feeding and SM isn't paying out as much for bandwidth.

  5. #30
    Veteran Member MommieLongLegs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Yes. The girls I see look like they just woke up and decided they were gonna get on cam, w/o showering or anything. One girl was laying on her back naked digging her nose and wiping it on her sheet. I've seen other girls suckin dick (couples) or flashin their pussies when asked in Guest/Free chat. This is the reason guys expect me to do the same. SMH
    Last edited by MommieLongLegs; 12-01-2011 at 04:36 PM.

  6. #31
    Senior Member LusciousKatya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    [quote=MommieLongLegs;2253070]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cam_Model_Jess View Post
    This makes sense. I've been talking about servers and bandwidth ever since SM came out with gold shows (aka Party Chat as they were first calling it).

    I also know that when I've glanced at the first Home page or the first Couples page lately, I'm amazed at the kind of models they're hosting. If these were my models, I'd be having some serious talks with them. They look like catfish slugging around at the bottom of a pond. Bottom feeders. And they're being hosted near the top of the site because they're with studios, I'm guessing. Otherwise, there's no way they'd be up there because they never go private. Some just sleep on cam. And I'm not talking about voyeur shows either. I understand the slippery slope presented by "firing" models because of their earnings, but they do have rules and guidelines. Warning, suspending, and "letting go" some of the models who are not good representatives for the site is a sound business decision. SM is VERY obviously not running a charity for models. Also, the models whose comments reflect the fact that all they do is rip off customers... why would you want them on your site? If all they do is waste time when customers go private and never actually do a "show," they're contributing to the problem that other models are having with guys who demand a full show in 45 seconds.

    Yes. The girls I see look like they just woke up and decided they were gonna get on cam, w/o showering or anything. One girl was laying on her back naked digging her nose and wiping it on her sheet. I've seen other girls suckin dick (couples) or flashin their pussies when asked in Guest/Free chat. This is the reason guys expect me to do the same. SMH

    Yeah, I noticed this too. The crappy models, one looked like she was high the time, and the show pussy shit in free chat. It really sucks! I was thinking the same thing tho, they need to get rid of the models that are mot bringing any money and keep the models that are, give models (the ones who are actually bringing in money) a higher percentage, this would solve a lot problems too.

  7. #32
    Veteran Member TM1975's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by shywebcamgirl View Post
    Last night was a freaking exercise in frustration for me on Streamate. The first hour was me just watching people log in and out of my room and finally someone told me that my cam was stuttering every two seconds. I logged in and out a million times, reinstalled flash, reinstalled my cam drivers, starting to use another browser and rebooted my computer from a cold state a couple of times and after it all I was still told by the people in my room that my cam's streaming was just 'tolerable'.
    Everything you tried are good ways to help your stream, the one thing you didn't mention is restarting your modem. If my cam is slow or stuttering I always go to speedtest.net and see if my speeds are where they are supposed to be, if not I reset both my modem and router. I hope you get everything sorted soon!!

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  9. #33
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    ^ A good point. I've had issues with this in the past too. I check my internet speed whenever there's an issue. Sometimes you have to be careful when you restart your router. Mine removes the security when I do that and I have to reset it.

  10. #34
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    I bet they could pay out their top earners at 40% and their lower earners around 30-35% and they would make more money. Or set some kind of per hour goal so that they're not punishing models who work very few hours; and models can have more control over their earnings
    Well, my business acquaintance pointed out that one totally 'fair' way to do this would be to enact a 50-50 split of paid sales for every webcam model, but to also charge every webcam model $5 for every hour they are logged in to cover their 'free advertising' bandwidth costs. Like strip clubs that charge 'house fees', this would both reward the girls who are producing regular earnings for themselves and for the club / webcam host, while at the same time incentivizing 'marginal' girls to voluntarily move elsewhere in order to avoid personally losing money !!! As an introductory offer, my business acquaintance suggested that the webcam host require a $50 'buy-in deposit' to be paid by every new webcam girl, or for the webcam host to provide each new girl with a $50 ( non-withdrawable ) initial account credit for 'free', but then 'fire' any girl whose account winds up being drawn down to zero by the $5 an hour bandwidth charges exceeding 50% splits of her paid sales.

  11. #35
    Moderator IsobelWren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Well, my business acquaintance pointed out that one totally 'fair' way to do this would be to enact a 50-50 split of paid sales for every webcam model, but to also charge every webcam model $5 for every hour they are logged in to cover their 'free advertising' bandwidth costs. Like strip clubs that charge 'house fees', this would both reward the girls who are producing regular earnings for themselves and for the club / webcam host, while at the same time incentivizing 'marginal' girls to voluntarily move elsewhere in order to avoid personally losing money !!! As an introductory offer, my business acquaintance suggested that the webcam host require a $50 'buy-in deposit' to be paid by every new webcam girl, or for the webcam host to provide each new girl with a $50 ( non-withdrawable ) initial account credit for 'free', but then 'fire' any girl whose account winds up being drawn down to zero by the $5 an hour bandwidth charges exceeding 50% splits of her paid sales.
    You know I really like your friend's first idea there! I would be totally fine with doing that. Hell, if it was a high traffic site I'd even be fine with doing a 40/60 split and paying "house fees".

    I was looking at what you said earlier about it costing them 5$ per hour to host me and getting really fucking mad. I mean, if I'm making 100$ an hour take-home these assholes are making WAY more than that and they're whining about spending a few bucks more to host me? They're still making away like bandits. Okay, you've got to pay affiliates, your machinery and your staff, but the affiliate cut comes out before you see it and your staff only make 25$ an hour. Shit, four really well preforming models could make that back in an hour easy and they have HUNDREDS of girls!

    But if there was something that was clearly marked, "Okay here's how much it costs us to have you here so we're taking and even split for that and you pay to help us maintain it." or, "Top earners get more of a percentage since they're making the maintenance ratio less painful for us" I'd be fine with that.

    I think a lot of girls wouldn't even blink at either of those since most of us would just see, "50%" or "40%" and think, "well fuck, of course I'll be a top earner!" and go for it. The last bit would probably be just as good a motivator as "camscore" for getting girls to preform well. If you know the top earners must make X amount a week or that only the girls on the front page or the top 20 earning girls would get the best split you'd work your tail feathers off.

    Camworld did a 50% split but only with girls who agreed to do 4 hour long member shows a week. We could link to these shows from our member sites so our members could see them. There was another link that we could put in our member sites so that the members of our sites could see the other girls' hour long shows too. Extra content for our members! No reason not to do it! Camworld sold the member show network to the their subscribers for an additional monthly fee so that helped them too. If you missed a show you'd get dropped from the rotation and they'd drop your split back to 40%.

    Another thought is, what about the customers? What about those cheap assholes who never buy shows and convince new girls to give them freebies while sitting there sucking up bandwidth? Couldn't there be some tax on them? "Free membership for 30 days. Membership fee of 15$ charged after that. Fee waived if you log 15 minutes worth of private shows a month." or something like that. Not only would it cut down the beggars we have to deal with but it would defray some of the costs of providing bandwidth to these jerks.


    I

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Him: we could meet... im 5ft 9 sexy italian with a 8 inch love stick...imagine playing with me... how would you do it
    Me: I would cut off your dick and feed it to the pigs

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  13. #36
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    Thumbs up Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by IsobelWren View Post
    You know I really like your friend's first idea there! I would be totally fine with doing that. Hell, if it was a high traffic site I'd even be fine with doing a 40/60 split and paying "house fees"...

    ...Another thought is, what about the customers? What about those cheap assholes who never buy shows and convince new girls to give them freebies while sitting there sucking up bandwidth? Couldn't there be some tax on them? "Free membership for 30 days. Membership fee of 15$ charged after that. Fee waived if you log 15 minutes worth of private shows a month." or something like that...
    Love you, Isobel

  14. #37
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    I mean, if I'm making 100$ an hour take-home these assholes are making WAY more than that and they're whining about spending a few bucks more to host me? They're still making away like bandits. Okay, you've got to pay affiliates, your machinery and your staff, but the affiliate cut comes out before you see it and your staff only make 25$ an hour. Shit, four really well preforming models could make that back in an hour easy and they have HUNDREDS of girls!
    This is all very likely true ! But the important point you are overlooking is that, for every top shelf camgirl like yourself who is generating $ 100 an hour in paid sales thus $50 or whatever in revenues for the webcam host, there are probably 2 other girls only generating $50 an hour thus $25 in revenue, 5 other girls only generating $20 an hour thus $10 an hour in revenue ( break-even for the webcam host ), and 3 other girls generating next to nothing in paid sales or revenue ( outright loss for the webcam host ) ! And ALL of you create the same bandwidth costs, site operation costs etc. for the webcam host.

    Thus you and the two other 'top earners' are being required to subsidize the three lowest earning webcam girls. As soon as a smart webcam host starts allowing you three 'top earners' to keep a greater percentage of your paid sales, while 'forcing out' the three 'worst earners' to avoid generation of losses that need to be subsidized, a virtual stampede will start ... with that webcam host suddenly finding themselves with a near monopoly in terms of 'top shelf' webcam girls. This will attract big spender customers away from other webcam hosts, which in turn will prompt even more 'top shelf' webcam girls to switch to the 'upscale' webcam host that allows them to keep more of the money they are generating in paid sales.

    Essentially this would be the same rough analogy to the strip club business model, with 'upscale' clubs / webcam hosts offering high quality girls at high prices, with 'dirty' clubs / webcam hosts offering lower quality girls willing to provide 'more' in the way of 'entertainment' for lower prices, and with 'middle of the road' clubs / webcam hosts slowly fading away due to an increasingly unprofitable business model of rising costs along with reduced spending by remaining customers. And in that sort of scenario, like the 'upscale' clubs, it would be possible for the 'upscale' webcam host to impose customer membership fees that are stiff enough to discourage the 'freeloaders'.

  15. #38
    God/dess cherryblossomsinspring's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    I tried to sign up there but I haven't used the account yet. I'm just having issues with the 30 seconds thing, the rating system and the 30-35% payout. I thought ok maybe if I put up a watermark in the feed that will make me feel more comfortable but as I've read above they actually will suspend you for doing that. So I really haven't found a way to work it other then maybe doing no nude dom work.

  16. #39
    Moderator IsobelWren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    This is all very likely true ! But the important point you are overlooking is that, for every top shelf camgirl like yourself who is generating $ 100 an hour in paid sales thus $50 or whatever in revenues for the webcam host, there are probably 2 other girls only generating $50 an hour thus $25 in revenue, 5 other girls only generating $20 an hour thus $10 an hour in revenue ( break-even for the webcam host ), and 3 other girls generating next to nothing in paid sales or revenue ( outright loss for the webcam host ) ! And ALL of you create the same bandwidth costs, site operation costs etc. for the webcam host.
    You know that is brilliant! I never even considered that, but now that you point it out to me it's so damned obvious I can't believe I never saw it.

    Why isn't Streamate hiring YOU for their business consulting?!


    I

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Him: we could meet... im 5ft 9 sexy italian with a 8 inch love stick...imagine playing with me... how would you do it
    Me: I would cut off your dick and feed it to the pigs

  17. #40
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    melonie, your inbox is full. i tried to send you a pm.

  18. #41
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Why isn't Streamate hiring YOU for their business consulting?!
    ... well the 'conspiracy theorists' would probably tell you that StreamMate is A. screwed from a business standpoint because their long term profitability has vanished ( due to HD plus thousands of 'marginal' camgirls now trying their hand at camming in todays rotten economy ) and no mainstream financial institution will loan a marginally profitable 'adult' business millions of dollars to pay for upgrades. B. they don't want to be the 'first' major webcam host to start outright kicking off 'marginal' camgirls or charging 'bandwidth fees', and most of all C. they're content to 'pocket' all of the cash flow they can for as long as they can and then simply declare bankruptcy ( which could wind up stiffing their backbone ISP, their streaming server provider, and potentially a whole bunch of camgirls, on money StreamMate owes them ).

  19. #42
    God/dess SarahTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    .C. they're content to 'pocket' all of the cash flow they can for as long as they can and then simply declare bankruptcy ( which could wind up stiffing their backbone ISP, their streaming server provider, and potentially a whole bunch of camgirls, on money StreamMate owes them ).
    AHH. I hope you're wrong about C!
    xoxo ~ Sarah




  20. #43
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTime View Post
    AHH. I hope you're wrong about C!
    You and me both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by space_cowgirl View Post
    I just want to go on cam tonight and pretend to be a fire truck.

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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryblossomsinspring View Post
    I tried to sign up there but I haven't used the account yet. I'm just having issues with the 30 seconds thing, the rating system and the 30-35% payout. I thought ok maybe if I put up a watermark in the feed that will make me feel more comfortable but as I've read above they actually will suspend you for doing that. So I really haven't found a way to work it other then maybe doing no nude dom work.
    The thing that blows my mind is I have looked at a lot of webcam sites out there and SM is pretty much one of the 'fairest' with its terms. Of course, they have a really low bar to compete against when most other companies won't even cover chargebacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by space_cowgirl View Post
    I just want to go on cam tonight and pretend to be a fire truck.

  22. #45
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Actually, a webcam host who agrees to cover chargebacks is arguably also 'overcharging' highly productive camgirls in order to subsidize 'marginal' camgirls. While one line of thinking would say that chargebacks occur at a uniform rate thus girls making more paid sales will also generate more chargeback dollars, another line of thinking would say that 'marginal' camgirls providing content of 'questionable' value creates a higher chargeback rate ( even though the total number of dollars involved are less ) due to a hgher percentage of dissatisfied customers. Personally speaking I much preferred a 50% payout while taking full responsibility for my own chargebacks !

  23. #46
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    Default Re: Streamate Too Many Problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Actually, a webcam host who agrees to cover chargebacks is arguably also 'overcharging' highly productive camgirls in order to subsidize 'marginal' camgirls. While one line of thinking would say that chargebacks occur at a uniform rate thus girls making more paid sales will also generate more chargeback dollars, another line of thinking would say that 'marginal' camgirls providing content of 'questionable' value creates a higher chargeback rate ( even though the total number of dollars involved are less ) due to a hgher percentage of dissatisfied customers.
    I like playing devil's advocate, so while I realize that you personally probably do not lean one way or another on either issue -- we could also bring up a third string of logic. One could also suggest that it is mainly a certain type of customer that is known to chargeback to their credit card in the first place. The site would definately be able to look at patterns of their past purchasing history more easily than each personal case when it comes to a camgirl's chargeback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by space_cowgirl View Post
    I just want to go on cam tonight and pretend to be a fire truck.

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