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Thread: Time is Money

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    Veteran Member Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Default Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    if any content is published here, you need the permission of both the author and the publisher (the owner of this site) to use it elsewhere.
    . . . . .
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 12-29-2011 at 01:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    ...no dancer I know would sit with a customer for an hour straight without being tipped/moving the "party" elsewhere (regulars often do this before or instead of going for a show/LD-but the tip equals or is more than what the lovely lady would have gotten from a dance for the same amount of time).

    ...btw, if you are not just another troll-perhaps you could try posting all your questions in ONE thread & see how that goes.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by OliveJardin View Post
    ...no dancer I know would sit with a customer for an hour straight without being tipped/moving the "party" elsewhere (regulars often do this before or instead of going for a show/LD-but the tip equals or is more than what the lovely lady would have gotten from a dance for the same amount of time).

    ...btw, if you are not just another troll-perhaps you could try posting all your questions in ONE thread & see how that goes.
    I don't think that he is a troll - he just doesn't know the lay of the land yet at SW.

    This post was actually much better than his previous two as it was a question rather than a sermon. In fact, it was not a bad question at that and I am interested in hearing the answers as well.

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    Featured Member sierra.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is Money

    In some clubs a girl would never sit there for an hour (or even 10 min) without asking for something (dance, drink, whatever) unless she is new, but there are places this happens. My weeknight club is kinda like this. I see girls sitting with customers for a loooong time before getting anything, and I always here girls complain about how they "spent 40 minutes with a guy for nothing!" Not how I operate, but to each her own.

    Anyway, I think this is going to vary from region to region (probably even club to club). If I'm with a guy, and doesn't want a dance but does want my company, I make it clear I expect to be paid. If he wants to hang out in the semi-private dance area then he has to pay full price. Hanging out on the floor I'll do for less. How much depends on how busy it is, how much I have already, and ultimately how ever much I can get him to agree to.

    In a situation where you haven't already agreed to pay her X amount for her time... I don't know. I feel like since you didn't agree to anything and weren't even asked you aren't obligated to pay the full price you would if it was discussed and agreed to. From a dancer perspective I think it's foolish to hang out for too long in *hopes* you'll get paid, and everytime I've done it and gotten burned I knew it was my own fault. But since you took advantage of her time, yes you should definately tip SOMETHING. And if you enjoyed yourself then tip more. Assuming the dances were $20 and she keeps it all, I think giving her like $50 extra is pretty fair. If you didn't get the dances then more. Some girls might think this is cheap, but I'm thinking of this in terms of my slower hustle weeknight club and there this would be alright. Obviously more is always better but that's my honest answer.


    ETA: Your question was what is my time worth, and I want to clarify that my time is worth MUCH more than $50 an hour, but that I gave that number for a situation where the dancer didn't confirm anything with you and therefore I don't feel you are obligated to pay full price. Wanted to reiterate that. And honestly I feel like a girl who hangs out for so long without making a deal or asking for anything is either super new or a really bad hustler and probably isn't expecting that much anyway... but then again I can only speak for my area. This might not be true for elsewhere.

    hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form


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    Veteran Member Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    if any content is published here, you need the permission of both the author and the publisher (the owner of this site) to use it elsewhere.
    . . . . .
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 12-29-2011 at 01:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    The question is based mostly off one new dancer who wouldn't take money up front without dancing. I have wasted multiple hours of her time, the last being 3 solid hours with a few dances scattered about. I enjoy talking to her and ir's easy to get lost in conversation when the club's dead. I want to be able to pay her a just amount, but since she won't tell me what, I was hoping you could give me a good idea.
    Hmm. I don't understand why she won't take the money up front... do you know why? I'm genuinely curious.

    Anyway, IDK really. It seems like you've gone more than once and spent time with her right? If that's the case then that might make it a little different than her just being some rando who hung around all night. I don't know what the area or club is like it's really hard to say... and I still can't help but feel like if whatever you give her isn't enough it's kind of partially her own fault for not being up front and assertive about it. Not being mean, we were all newbies once, just saying that's not a good strategy to me... and I'm afraid that bias might be causing me to lowball what I think you should give her and I'd hate to do that to someone...

    I guess just give her all the money. That should do it

    hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form


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    Veteran Member Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    if any content is published here, you need the permission of both the author and the publisher (the owner of this site) to use it elsewhere.
    . . . . .
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 12-29-2011 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    ^ Giving her all the money always works.

    Doc, you said that she refused to take money without doing dances.

    First, how much money were you offering? I think BOTM was lowballing at $20 before each stage set because the time to each set will vary dramatically by club.

    It's also possible that if you were offering an amount that was too low, she preferred to get you "locked in" for a specific number of dances rather than accept $10 or $20 on the theory that maybe that's all you had. Obviously, the experienced dancer will take the cash you offer and then sell you the dances, but that's one explanation.

    FWIW, you are always best off going high with cash in a club -- there is really no downside to this strategy. It will always get you more attention, you will always make sure the dancers are happy, and you will have a dramatically better time throughout the night.

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    Veteran Member Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    if any content is published here, you need the permission of both the author and the publisher (the owner of this site) to use it elsewhere.
    . . . . .
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 12-29-2011 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Is that $60 for three hours + the dances? Cause if you only got a few dances that's really not very good at all for 3 hours. It's actually kind of really bad, to me anyway.
    If it was one hour then that's not so terrible.

    hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form


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    Veteran Member Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    if any content is published here, you need the permission of both the author and the publisher (the owner of this site) to use it elsewhere.
    . . . . .
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 12-29-2011 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    ^ Let me start by saying your instincts are good. Paying for time is a practice dismissed in some quarters, but it is an essential component to good customer behavior.

    Obviously, the same is true of tipping.

    I'll share a thought (ok, a long thought) and then withdraw and let the dancers respond. Like Rick, I'm interested in what they will say in this instance.

    One of the many unfortunate consequences of the economic downturn has been a dramatic increase in what I would call boorish, selfish and exploitative behavior on the part of customers. I understand this characterization is not a universally held belief, and that many customers expect a specific ROI for their money, however defined -- and often it is defined in explicit ways.

    Now they are all customers and obviously have a right to their own views and practices, particularly if they find a good match to dancers with similar views. Go forth and have fun.

    My view, however, is that the buying power of money does not automatically empower the bearer to use the money in ways that even remotely push the boundaries of the dancers. Like science and mathematics, money is morally neutral. It's the bearer who determines whether each is used to acceptable ends or not.

    So offering to pay for time or conversation -- a practice I'm encouraging you to continue -- is one of the best ways of honoring the equation time = money. Don't be dissuaded by the dismissive snorts from other customers about how you are being blindly hustled, or you're an idiot and chump for not pushing a dancer to her mental breaking point.

    Each customer has unique objectives in the SC experience. You'll have a lot more fun in the end if you are generous in every possible meaning of that word.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    It also depends on what your relationship is with them. A lot of times I'm the guy they come to drink/smoke/count money/bitch with...no dancing or customer time really. I throw em a few bucks and many just shove it back in my shirt,

    Of course when I dance, I tip at least to match the cost of the dance (profit 100% ) or more....

    If its a girl I don't know, 20/half hour of sit n chat or more if there's contact. If I take up that much of her time, we ALWAYS do a double vip unless she's really not hot or interesting (in which case I wouldn't sit her down)

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    I had several customers who were all about the talk and I can't remember offhand I charged, but probably close to what I would have made dancing. The exceptions would have been if the club was dead or the customer was a regular then I probably charged less. I never would have sat with a guy for an hour without being paid unless I knew he was the type to pay. Normally I spent probably 5-15 minutes with him and no money then I left.

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    Featured Member lopaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Like pinups4 mentioned, it is all about the relationship with the dancers and the club in general. Although the girls know that I spend freely when I'm in the club, many like to sit and BS for sometimes long stretches of time when they are bored or scoping the room for their next victim. Sometimes it can be a PITA because they unintentionally pussy-block me. Ah, such is life. But they have never expected nor requested a cent from me, and have turned down cold-hard $$$ when it was offered for their time. Go figure.


    Is that you, Doc, from our other favorite (not-to-be-mentioned-here) SC hangout website?
    Welcome to SW

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by lopaw View Post
    Sometimes it can be a PITA because they unintentionally pussy-block me.
    Welcome to SW
    Hate the pussy block, but it is fun to profile the guys/girls who come in and compare notes as to why they might make good victims or punching bags (figuratively).

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Quote Originally Posted by pinups4 View Post
    Hate the pussy block, but it is fun to profile the guys/girls who come in and compare notes as to why they might make good victims or punching bags (figuratively).
    lol yeah, the pussy-blocking is an unfortunate side affect, but sometimes it can have a rewarding outcome .

    This past Saturday, while clubbing in a fave spot, I found myself sitting with a gal that was having a lousy day. Her real issue was that she was grappling with the recent news that a close relative was very ill. All this poor girl wanted to do was vent a bit, and she sat with me for well over two hours. I was looking for a lull in her pretty much one-sided conversation to ask her if she wanted to do a VIP (to help get her mind off of things, of course ).....but before I got a chance she glanced around the room and asked me "so do you think I should approach that goofy-looking guy sitting over by the vending machine?" Okaaaaay. Whatever. So I just shrugged and offered that he looked like easy-pickins'. Then, in my best playful pimp voice, I told her to "go make me some money, and you best be quick about it!", and went to hand her $100 for her time. She seemed almost misty-eyed, pushed it away and gave me a kiss saying that our "talk" was worth more than money.

    That dancer made my day, despite the pussy-blocking

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Here is what I would reccommend if you are not doing the lap dances:

    - Tip $50 - $100 per song if you are watching her on the stage
    - Tip $25 - $50 per song if you two are sitting at a table talking

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    Solid question and massively helpful discussion, especially Bringonthemen's post.

    You mentioned that if a guy paid you $100 to sit and talk with him for an hour, that seems fair.
    Ok, here's a scenario for you: Been seeing my ATF once a week for a few months now. Great relationship - she dances and is a sympathetic ear in exchange for my $$. Sometimes, I don't feel like getting VIPs and just want to hang. What if I offered her $200-$300 upfront, saying I'm not interested in LDs tonight, but why don't you come by in between custies to chat over the course of 2-3 hours. Seem reasonable? I just kinda want to find a range that's fair for both of us.

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    Default Re: Time is Money

    ^ Just when I think I've got this down, I learn something else that should be fucking obvious. Thanks, Bring. Really.

    Interestingly, I did try to slip her a 20 once after her stage show. I apologized, told her I didn't get a chance to tip - she actually passed it back to me and said don't be ridiculous. Caught me by surprise, esp since we had been talking for a good 20 minutes before the show. Took her to the VIP after that anyway

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