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Thread: Women being abused on porn sets?

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    Senior Member Dreamofluxie's Avatar
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    Default Women being abused on porn sets?

    I just thought I'd see what the general reaction to this video was on stripperweb. It seems to be making the rounds on facebook and all the non adult workers are reacting in disgust and shock.

    I don't really have an opinion...I don't know too much about porn in general (only camming) and I am aware that the industry had some pretty ffd up sides to it, but the sort of porn featured in this clip I thought was typically very rough and was mostly acting, not real abuse?

    Just wondering what the opinion over here is, amongst actual adult industry workers. Does anyone know anything about the actress who is speaking against porn?

    WARNING ...video may be triggering or upsetting for people with history of abuse.


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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Yup, that is Shelley Lubbens, we've talked about her quite a bit in Camming Connection. Michael Whiteacre has written and recorded quite a bit about her - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol0IK...1EB2CCAD3B3B10 - interviewed actors/directors she worked with to question her claims, posted her organization's IRS records, etc.

    Most of those clips in the video are from efukt

    the first shot of the blonde girl looking disoriented 0:37-0:40 - she actually had an orgasm / was smiling seconds later

    0:57-1:01... Ive seen it on efukt but dont remember, the context is basically anti-kinky non-vanilla sex..., the clip that is after it is also featured on efukt, it is by this guy who is kind of skeeze bucket from what it seems: he runs JM Productions and has a whole series of porno "outtakes".
    1:25-1:32... again from efukt, but both are amateur tapes, not from the porn industry or a studio or even from California that we know of
    1:37-1:40.... urine? feces? Ive seen her porn - uh I dont think so... and used baby wipes are now scandalous?
    1:46-1:47... she stopped the scene to say something she doesnt do, director and actors "oh". Ive seen that clip and she went right back to the scene.
    1:49-1:53... again the amateur tape, just a couple filming themselves having sex.
    1:55-2:10... yea that's fucked up, from the set though Im about 99% sure that is from Facial Abuse. Not giving FacialAbuse an excuse but Ive seen their ads on SexyJobs before, they dont hide what is going to happen on set - they emphasize that it is extreme, very hardcore, deep-throating is req'd, slapping, verbal humiliation, etc. Not excusing it since FA weirds me out but ppl were asking if she was OK, she said No, withdrew consent and left. Unsure that is a sufficient enough of a call to action unless she doesnt get a fee for showing up or doing some of the scene.
    2:14-2:15... she must not see amateur and super low-budget porn

    26 cases of HIV reported by AIM is not true, that's just a lie.

    From her ongoing agenda - she wants the porn industry to stop existing altogether, she isnt advocating health for a better work environment for independent contractors (which I support): she just wants the industry to end. So cloaking it behind a 'call to action' and clips from a 'lol porn' site is silly.





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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    I mean, Im sure it happens like any kind of unregulated industry where a lot of money is behind it... so Im not minimizing what may have happened to some - but the video is not a good example, Lubbens doesnt have much credibility, and the clips in the video arent all what they seem





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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    I haven't watched it yet (still buffering), but Shelley Lubben is a hideous force against the adult industry and I wouldn't trust her for one second.

    Absolutely terrible things can happen in the adult industry, as with every other industry, but us sex workers can improve things ourselves by NOT being like Shelley Lubben, and taking some goddamn personal responsibility. The thing that sickens me the most is that there are people who call her a role model and an inspiration, but surely a decent role model would emphasize the importance of holding oneself responsible for one's own actions rather than whine because you didn't bother to read a contract before you signed it, and start cramming your body with drink and drugs.

    She whines non-stop about mistakes that she could have and should have prevented herself.
    It seems plain as day to me that she entered into the adult industry without a whit of research or care or even respect for either herself, her safety, (because we are all in control of our own safety), OR her job. It pisses me off to no end.




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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Okay I've watched the video. I have to say, that was actually the best (and only half-way decent) video I've seen from Shelley Lubben. She herself didn't appear intoxicated, incoherent or blinded with rage and she at least presented statistics.

    But more-over, she did NOT actually say in this video that she wanted to close down the adult industry full-stop, which is a DRASTIC change of her tune from previous videos. She is now saying that there should be no adult industry until / unless there is proper care taken of the performers. For me personally, I can't see a problem with more care being taken of employers. This is not to say that I have gone back on emphasis on personal responsibility.

    I'm also not saying I'm now siding with her, but this sure is a welcome change in relation to her previous (and bizarre) quests.




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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Any woman who decides to do porn owes it to herself to research the companies that she is going to be working for. With the current trend towards low-budget filming I'm sure there are a fair share of disreputable production companies out there. There are, however, plenty of very legitimate companies run by folks who treat their talent well and run a good set.

    Drugs and alcohol do not have to be a part of any porn shoot. If an actress needs those substances to shoot she probably shouldn't be shooting.

    Porn, like any other job in the sex industry, is a job that requires a great deal of mental toughness. The money is the draw but going into blindly or thinking that "it's just having sex" is the wrong approach. I'm not unsympathetic to the girls who find that it is too much for them to handle but those girls need to know when to get out. The woman who was in that video was not dragged onto a porn set with male actors, drugs and booze. She put herself there. She could have gotten dressed and left but that would have meant giving up the money...
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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Saw it was Lubbens and closed the vid. I didn't know she was still on this crusade, at least so publicly. SMH.

    Oh, and she DOES call for the industry to be shut down, within the first 20 seconds of the video.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    If I recall she was a porn performer so I suspect that she might be upset her career came to an end and is now against it. Not sure though.

    I will say though my experience with the industry is doing one pro am video with a company that later merged with a big company (though oddly their vhs have never been released on DVD). My experience was somewhat mixed because while I didn't encountered any of the things mentioned on the tape like abuse I was being pushed to do other things, including having sex with the director and his wife (his wife does lesbian videos). I felt so dirty after doing the one video that I knew it wasn't for me and told them that. I never did anal or girl girl on video (the video was boy girl with straight oral and intercourse) or anything else but have heard many stories of girls being pressured to do those after they get on a set. In fact Belladonna mentions that in an interview that she found out anal was what the video required.

    I have heard though the abusive videos are on the rise. I'm talking those that state being hit or abused and the actress knows upfront. Personally, I think this is disgusting, but I don't blame the porn industry, I blame society for having a hard on for violence.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post

    I have heard though the abusive videos are on the rise. I'm talking those that state being hit or abused and the actress knows upfront. Personally, I think this is disgusting, but I don't blame the porn industry, I blame society for having a hard on for violence.
    Exactly. People think the consumer doesn't have power anymore and it's like . People don't understand that their passive decisions (made with their money) are what brings most media into existence. No one would do these things if it wasn't what SOLD. All the sequels, reboots, remakes, etc in Hollywood, all the reality television shows, the fact that the news never reports on anything positive anymore, that's because people tune in and watch this depressing shit. I didn't like "The Price of Pleasure", but it made a good point in regards to how people are slowly becoming desensitized to "normal" sex acts and keep pushing for more extremes (DP, ATM, etc).

    ...but I'll get off my soapbox.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    In a day&age where word travels fast, an in an industry where girls aren't paid very well & don't get much work these days, there's no way a porn company would risk anything of the sort if they actually wanted to make profit & stay in business.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    Exactly. People think the consumer doesn't have power anymore and it's like . People don't understand that their passive decisions (made with their money) are what brings most media into existence. No one would do these things if it wasn't what SOLD. All the sequels, reboots, remakes, etc in Hollywood, all the reality television shows, the fact that the news never reports on anything positive anymore, that's because people tune in and watch this depressing shit. I didn't like "The Price of Pleasure", but it made a good point in regards to how people are slowly becoming desensitized to "normal" sex acts and keep pushing for more extremes (DP, ATM, etc).

    ...but I'll get off my soapbox.
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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    Exactly. People think the consumer doesn't have power anymore and it's like . People don't understand that their passive decisions (made with their money) are what brings most media into existence. No one would do these things if it wasn't what SOLD. All the sequels, reboots, remakes, etc in Hollywood, all the reality television shows, the fact that the news never reports on anything positive anymore, that's because people tune in and watch this depressing shit. I didn't like "The Price of Pleasure", but it made a good point in regards to how people are slowly becoming desensitized to "normal" sex acts and keep pushing for more extremes (DP, ATM, etc).

    ...but I'll get off my soapbox.
    I agree. It's like I tell a friend of mine who complains they cancel quality shows, I'll ask if she watched them. Of course not so she has no room to talk. Porn companies make these more extreme videos because they sell. I find them dehumanizing to women so I would never watch them but if more didn't watch they wouldn't be made.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Eh...I was not impressed.

    Watching a couple seconds of a shot where you dont know what happened before or after doesnt anyway say much about the shot itself.

    The whole thing with drugs and alcohol dont sway me either. There are girls who need to get high and wasted just to do cam.

    In the clips I saw there, there were several examples of the woman speaking her mind and the guy respecting that "I dont do ATM", "OK"..... so, I dont get what that was supposed to show me...was I supposed to be disgusted that he tried to guide her into ATM? Eh.

    And the stats...36 people in 3 years died of a combination of HIV, drugs, suicide and homicide. How many of those were directly related to porn, and how many of those related to the persons personal life/lifestyle? A lot more people not in porn died of those things as well.

    Then the next stat of 100 people dying of HIV....in what time span? In 3 years it was a combination of 4 different things to make up the number of 36....so, is that 100 in the past 5 years? 10 years? since historical record-keeping 20 years ago? (I dont know when, but then....the stat doesnt mention so thats an up in the air number)

    All that being said, Im not saying I support this type of porn, just that....as someone mentioned before, someone who goes to work with a company should have a pretty good idea of what sort of movies that company puts out. Like with any job, you research the company you work for. And even if you are naive and dont do that, speak up and walk off if things get too intense, as shown from many of these clips...I didnt see a single one where after the girl got upset, the guy held her down and forced her to continue.

    Anyway....I didnt find it shocking because I know there is porn out there like this, I didnt find her stats and remarks insightful, because it sounded like fear mongering, and a lot like feeding into people who dont like porn and just looking for any reason to shut it down.

    I could even maybe be a bit more interested if it was a specific company under fire for being scrupulous, but the porn industry as a whole, they are all like this? No...I dont buy it.
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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    This sort of crap bothers me. Nothing in that video provided context or anything near "fact". Just another crusader with some self-righteous agenda.

    Drugs and drinking are individual choice.
    Where are the statistics really coming from? Are they proven accurate?
    If the sex is good, you're probably going to be tired/disoriented near the end.
    If a company is called "Facial Abuse", they will probably abuse your face.
    Sex involves bodily fluids, some times multiple types. Just a fact.
    Private sets are easy to secure and cheap. It's a staple of low-budget porn.
    Most directors/managers are men. That's how it is in most industries.
    I see women saying "stop" and things are stopping. That seems like prevention of abuse?
    The "girl in pain" situation was odd. It's obviously amateur, for one, so what does it even really have to do with production porn? She repeats that it hurts, but doesn't say stop?

    I see ONE instance of verbal abuse, when a camera man mocked a woman by saying "poor baby". Unprofessional, not unsafe...
    Exotic dancing is like any other job.
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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    As a part-time porn producer...

    I will not shoot models under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I do a pre-shoot interview and post-shoot interview. I ask them if they are aware of what's going on, that they are being filmed doing sexual acts on camera, they are not being coerced, pressured or forced, they are able to "kill" the scene at any time if they are uncomfortable, they are allowed to ask questions at any time, all model restrictions and limitations are defined in detail before they even show up, and if the chance of swapping bodily fluids or skin on skin contact is going to happen, all models are tested before the shoot and bring a clean STD test before any shooting even happens.

    Furthermore - nobody ever comes to shoot unless they want to. What they do after the shoot has zero to do with my production or anything to do with the porn industry. If they use drugs on their own time, that's on them. If they go out and kill someone on the way home, that's on them. If they decide a month later to kill themselves, also on them. I'm sure there are taxi cab drivers and fast food employees and even corporate workers who use drugs, kill people and commit suicide - you can't go blaming the industry for the choices of an individual.


    Girls who do the hardcore "abuse" scenes know full well what they're getting into and consent to what's going on beforehand. It's not like they show up to shoot a loving passionate b/g scene and they end up getting DP'd by a couple guys while someone is choking them and fucking their throat.

    Bottom line is, you can't SELL rape scenes, so nobody will shoot them. Hardcore or "abusive" sex between two (or more) consenting adults is legal and as I said the models know what they are doing beforehand. Nobody gets fucked in the ass on accident, nobody takes a facial without knowing it, there are rules, regulations and guidelines producers follow.


    There have been a few reported outbreaks of HIV/AIDs and it's been handled swiftly by AIM and producers. Production comes to a stop, further testing is done and people are put into lockdown. Models get tested monthly if not more often, and if they come up positive for anything, they aren't allowed to work.

    The 66% of herpes is probably HSV-1 or whatever the cold sores virus is.

    If you look at the number of adult performers (thousands) and the number of scenes shot per day the numbers are really, really low especially considering the lack of condoms used in most shoots.

    It's safer to fuck a porn star than a chick you meet at the bar. At least you know that porn star has been tested in the last month.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    From her little speech... she basically wants to get rid of everything I like in porn. ...lol

    Although I do agree that everyone should have a save work place whether you're in porn or a school teacher... I don't think that a bunch of clips taken out of context for shock value is really all that effective.
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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    I think there are a lot of desperate women who end up in bad situations because they need the money and end up being abused and taken advantage of, because they have to do things they don't want to do in order to get paid. I also feel that people who have a history of abuse often end up in the adult industry. As a stripper I put up with a lot of stuff that other women wouldn't stand for, I mean just the job itself is pretty abusive at times. You are either a piece of meat or a piece of meat essentially.

    I think porn producers are a lot like pawn shops or loan sharks these days. And the economy is ripe for pushing boundaries and taking advantage of people without having to pay them hardly anything.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Porn today is like a Transformer's movie. Replace giant transforming robots with big penises destroying everything in sight and you have today's porn. Will it ever get tiring already? I feel like porn is being created for four year-olds instead of adults.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    OF course, the desperation card. ANY person who works ANY job out of desperation can be summed up in two ways- unable to actually work that job and in need of counselling.

    I worked one night with a girl who fit the desperation mentality to a T. Two kids, recently divorced, no job skills, and in an economic caste that made stripping a better idea than fast food. She spent more money than she earned getting bombed before she would go on stage. She stumbled around a sloppy mess, no customers wanted that. At the end of the night, she tried to start a fight with my friend, who was top earner and only didn't whoop her ass cause I had help holding her back. No doubt, she would have needed medical attention after the uncouthe shit she did to start this shit. Because of her behavior all night and witnesses, the manager obviously fired the cunt. But who do you think she blamed for her failure? Us. Accused us of abusing and taking advantage of her.

    Fucking psychos.
    Exotic dancing is like any other job.
    If you work in an office, you wear dress shoes and a suit.
    If you work in a restaraunt, you wear skid resistant shoes and a uniform.
    If you work in a strip club, you wear 7" stilettos and lycra g-strings.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Kind of spinning off of what Spinnerette mentioned about abusive porn becoming normative: I think ubiquitous access to porn is going to have long-term cultural implications that we as a global society haven't realized yet. Many teens are learning about sex first through porn instead of through fumbling personal experiences, and with the orgasm as the penultimate reinforcer, our impressions of sex are becoming neurologically conditioned by falsehood (porn vs. real sex). Some porn to enhance a personal sex life is fine, but there has been a spike in young man's ED due to porn overstimulus and additionally, many children and teens (and everyone else) have pretty much unfiltered access to RAW porn.

    When porn caters to pedophilic fantasies (Tiny Tabby, Little Lupe) and rape/humiliation on such a mass scale, it skews healthy sexual perception. Previously, rough stuff was harder to find, and BDSM was free to develop on its own, or not, rather than becoming the standard for eliciting a hard-on. Even the innocuous stuff is somewhat detrimental as it simplifies human sexual encounters and reinforces backward gender ideals to an extreme. The men have huge cocks and they are rough and fast and brutal and the women are always shaved and ready.

    I understand that freedom of expression is untouchable, but we've already seen some of the effects TV and marketing have had on general culture, so I think porn is going to be the next big wave of "OOPS" in denting otherwise normal human sexual behavior.
    Last edited by Swagz; 12-18-2011 at 10:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    I have a real issue with the porn industry! That's why I'd rather do anything else but porn, and would way rather dance than be exploited abusively by the porn industry. You can make more in a day as a dancer and everything is at the moment of performance, but with porn you are forever frozen on screen, footage of which is sliced-and-diced into other smut films that you're not paid for and splattered across the internet on millions of pages for a bunch of greedy porn retailers to profit from at the expense of your exploitation and reputation. Yeah, anything is better than doing porn. Only a select few contract gals make $100 g's or more per year, the rest just get taken advantaged of. It's very difficult to sue the porn industry whenever anything goes wrong. As a dancer, at least you set your hours and make your money then and there for the performance you do at that time. Fair is fair, and porn in the form of smut... is anything but fair to performers. Save yourself the mental agony and abuse of porn... find any other job you can. It's not worth it. I can make the same pay dancing in a year as I could doing porn in a year and not be exploited in over 400 fake slice-and-dice rereleases that portray women in the worse manner imaginable, and I'd still have more respect as a dancer than lose all respect not doing porn yet films would come out making it look as though you were. It's a devious and underhanded industry of greed and if you went up against it, it would be like one person holding a sword against an army all of hell, and I'm still around, but only because I'm a commodity to them, but I will still continue to put it down for its unregulated exploitation. People work and should earn an income for their services or labor provided, not be exploited and earn nothing. Don't you agree?

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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    ^^^ What? None of that makes any sense. ^^^

    Do you pay for ALL the music you listen to? Do you only use iTunes/Netflix or purchase CDs/DVDs? If you download any content for free, then you're a fucking hypocrite.
    A lot of "free porn" these days is either amateur (which is absolutely disgraceful to me, because a lot of the performers are NOT up to snuff and they're doing it for free. WTF?) or re-distributed content. Re-distributed porn is just like the re-distributed music that's undoubtedly on your iPod.

    Don't want your scenes re-distributed for free? Put a big, transparent watermark right in the fucking middle of the image. Duh. Same idea as protecting your image in modeling.
    Exotic dancing is like any other job.
    If you work in an office, you wear dress shoes and a suit.
    If you work in a restaraunt, you wear skid resistant shoes and a uniform.
    If you work in a strip club, you wear 7" stilettos and lycra g-strings.

  38. #24
    God/dess BlkSharpie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyBerrie View Post
    Don't you agree?
    No.

    But I do feel compelled to bring "one person holding a sword against an army all of hell" into conversation....that made me

    All your base are belong to us!
    Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. Don't turn your back. Don't look away. And don't blink!

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  40. #25
    Featured Member Naida's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women being abused on porn sets?

    Her grammar was not l33t there. Like magnets, how does it?
    Exotic dancing is like any other job.
    If you work in an office, you wear dress shoes and a suit.
    If you work in a restaraunt, you wear skid resistant shoes and a uniform.
    If you work in a strip club, you wear 7" stilettos and lycra g-strings.

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