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Thread: Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

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    Default Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

    I cant say the author sounds completely credible but the topic is unique....http://www.huffingtonpost.com/garret..._b_568455.html
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    Default Re: Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

    Very interesting. I did a search on the DRD4 7R gene and found this.

    http://www.science20.com/news_releas...t_in_villagers

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    Default Re: Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

    (snip)Modern humans were also trapped mostly in Africa because their rivals -- the Neanderthals -- occupied Europe and Asia and could basically kick the living crap out of them if they ever dared to venture into this Neanderthal territory, because Neanderthals were extremely combative, powerful, and skillful warriors.....
    This miraculous combination created a new kind of "super" human hybrid tribe: part Neanderthal, part modern human -- and they DOMINATED. They had the battle skills and ingenuity of Neanderthals and the stability of modern humans working together to sustain their growth, progress and eventual dominion.(snip)

    Sooooo, this guy has nothing to back up his long winded, racist, or Eurocentric lullaby but his own agenda. Africans largely don't have the gene but there were kingdoms rich enough, and brilliant enough that Europeans sent their kids to learn for centuries. And some of these African kings were ruthless enough to expand/invade into Europe and enslave and dominate for centuries as did many Asian kingdoms. Greek and Roman thought originated in Africa. Sooooo his premise is yet another fairy tale.

    Here's a comment that also sums up my view of the author's "theories".
    What's far more insidious about this assertion you've made is that the neanderthal contribution to the modern human genome has been noted only in caucasian and asian populations thus far and is notably absent in sub-Saharan African populations. This kind of an argument, that neanderthal's contribution to our genetic code has made us more advanced (and by extension, not Africans) could be used to justify racism and "speciation" along arbitrary lines. As an evolutionary biologist, this is the kind of haphazard reporting that makes me cringe. PLEASE be more careful in the future.
    Last edited by Optimist; 02-27-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

    I was under the impression from what I've learned that the Neanderthals were an evolutionary dead end, unable to compete with Cro-Magnons, the actual ancestors of modern humans.
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    Default Re: Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

    I'm an Anthropology major, and based on what I've learned, this guy seems really full of shit.

    The idea that humans and Neanderthals share DNA has been around for a long time (not "since yesterday"). I believe that there is genetic evidence that some people of European (and Asian? I think) descent have "Neanderthal" DNA, but any gene flow between the two groups was limited. This isn't really news. Regardless, Humans and Neanderthals are genetically more similar than today's two chimpanzee species (Bonobos and Chimps) but less similar than chimp subspecies. There is debate whether or not Neanderthals and Humans are even separate species, or if they are instead subspecies.

    Also, there are a lot more convincing theories explaining human's technological growth, and the switch agriculture and sedentary societies after spending 99% of our existence as hunter-gatherers. My favorite and (I think most convincing) theory has to do with climate change that occurred as we moved from the Pleistocene to the Holocene. The Pleistocene era was NOT amenable to agriculture. During this epoch the climate was very arid and fluctuated a lot. With so much extreme weather variation, there wasn't an opportunity for the specialized use of plants to develop. Additionally, CO2 levels in the air were low. This negatively affects plant productivity and also makes them more susceptible to the dry climate. Agriculture just wasn't happening in the Pleistocene. The Holocene, in contrast, is much more stable, warmer, and wetter. In fact, some scientists have argued that not only was agriculture impossible in the Pleistocene, but it was INEVITABLE in the Holocene.

    Anyway, the development of agriculture is pretty much the starting point for the rise of human culture. Once you can produce your own food, you can increase the carrying capacity of an area and in turn increase the population. This also eventually allowed people to disengaged from food production all together and specialize in other activities. We also begin to see inequality in wealth, power, and authority.


    I don't really know where the author is getting his profile of Neanderthal behavior and mental capacity or how accurate it is. Neanderthals did hunt, but their technology was basic, and I'm fairly certain didn't outshine Human technology (if anything, Humans were probably more advanced than Neanderthals). It is highly doubtful that they had the capacity for language. There is little to no evidence of construction at Neanderthal sites, although they did have hearths (but no evidence they were constructed or maintained). Mineral colors have been found at Neanderthal sites, but no painted artifacts, so it's possible they painted their bodies or practiced tattooing. One thing that is very interesting is that there are examples of Neanderthals deliberately burying their dead.

    One thing that doesn't make sense to me is his idea that Humans were stuck in Africa because these violent, scary Neanderthals would (presumably) kill us if we entered their territory (that seems to be what the article suggests) yet one day we suddenly started making babies? How does that happen?



    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    I was under the impression from what I've learned that the Neanderthals were an evolutionary dead end, unable to compete with Cro-Magnons, the actual ancestors of modern humans.
    Cro-Magnon are actually the first modern humans. I don't think this term is really used anymore, though. I think "anatomically modern human" is more current.

    There is some debate over evolution of Neanderthals and who our last shared ancestor was. One theory is that Neanderthals and Humans evolved separately from Homo erectus. A second is that we split off from a more recent ancestor, Homo antecessor (although there is debate whether or not Homo antecessor is really even its own separate species). Another is that Neanderthals and Humans didn't evolve separately, but that were was constant gene flow between the two and that we are actually of the same species.



    EDIT: Maybe I'm just not understanding what he is saying, but his timeline seems kind of messed up. He is saying 37,000 years ago Humans and Neanderthals bred together and produced some amazingly clever super-human. That sort of makes sense, since according to the out of Africa hypothesis it is around this time Humans entered Europe and Neanderthals disappeared. But if Neanderthals were so fearsome they kept us in Africa, why'd they suddenly disappear when we finally left? Because of a couple of hybrids? Doesn't sound convincing to me. Plus, humans didn't develop agriculture until around 10,000 BP (which coincides with the start of the Holocene around 12,000 BP). So his idea that we hooked up with Neanderthals in 37,000 BP, and then within "the cosmic blink of an eye" we had agriculture and advanced civilizations doesn't really add up chronologically. At all.
    Last edited by sierra.; 02-29-2012 at 12:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

    Thanks for the post. After reading the article in the OP, I found it quite interesting. However, I found a lot of racist back and forth on the internet regarding this topic.

    One theory I read that really piqued my interest is the link between Neanderthal genes and Asperger/Autism. What is your take on that?

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    Default Re: Suprising way neanderthal genome affects us.....

    I saw a couple of fascinating PBS shows, I think it was a NOVA special The premise was that for a long peorid of time what became modern day humans were isolated in a small part of Africa due to a climate change at that time. Life was very difficult and harsh, much more so than elsewhere. IIRC the speculation of the show was that this very small brand of humans were backed up next to the sea and ate a diet very rich in fish oils. When the climate allowed they scattered and populated Europe. They were smarter than the Neanderthols and just out competed them. There was much more than that in the show and I found it most interesting. I believe they were relying on DNA evidence to support the theory. Sierra Im wondering if you saw it, and your thoughts?

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