Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 90

Thread: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

  1. #1
    Newbie
    Joined
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    This is the one thing that makes me feel conflicted about camming. I love camming and I've been showing people my body online since I was a teenager... It's only recently I realised people would pay me to do it. In that sense I think camming is a good opportunity to show men what women who are actually getting off look like. Porn is often so fake and come-centred that you don't often see real women having real orgasms online or just normal girls who are sexual having fun. On the other hand, I think there's more that's bad about porn than just the false-ness... porn, and camming, encourage men to see women as commodities (perhaps). That's surely not a good thing.

    I wondered whether this is something that bothers anyone else. Do you worry about the ethics of camming/the impact it has on society in general for women (and men)? I don't like to think I'm involved in something which is damaging women's progress. Then again, it's something I like and make a lot of money from, so I obviously want to keep doing it!

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PippySweet For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Veteran Member TXCamgirl's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2011
    Posts
    449
    Thanks
    35
    Thanked 642 Times in 220 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Hells no. You are only an object if you let yourself be one. This job puts us in charge of our own futures, the limits are endless! I personally think flipping burgers and stockings shelves are far worse for the "woman kind" than doing this.


  4. #3
    God/dess laurielegs's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2010
    Location
    USA, northeast
    Posts
    7,317
    Thanks
    30,600
    Thanked 17,688 Times in 5,185 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    If a man takes his sexual education from what he sees in porn or even Hollywood movies or a cam host instead of actually paying attention to what his partner likes and what pleases her, he isn't going to be a good lover in any case.

    There are a lot who whine about women being objectified but seems they are usually men who either want it free or are jealous that we actually make decent money instead of any number of low paying jobs like secretarial work. The ones who whine the loudest are often the biggest consumers of porn.



  5. #4
    Featured Member Incantatious's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,732
    Thanks
    5,214
    Thanked 8,267 Times in 1,351 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    I've thought about this a lot.

    This idea reminds me of certain strands of feminism which love to make victims out of women. I mean: it thrives on making victims out of women. It a lens which paints otherwise perfectly healthy aspects of human sexuality captured on film and sold to consumers, as something hideously "objectifying", degrading, punishing, sordid, harmful, etc. I don't buy it. Nor do I buy the many books penned by the many authors who make a lot of money from this way of looking at the world. I used to, and knowing just how willing this sector is bent on wiping porn off the face of the Earth, sweeping away the rights of sex workers, us performers, people who make a living, as well as porn consumers, has sickened me to the core. I find their concept of morality much more sickening than any fetish I may not understand. I take a lot of pride in welcoming the sex education that I was so deprived of when I was younger.

    I don't buy that men are these inherently unemotional, mailable creatures who view women "as sex objects", the same way I don't buy that women are these over-sensitive, mailable creatures who object to porn, and being looked upon in a sexual way. It would take a LOT of psychological battering to alter a man's perception of women to these "commodities"; and it would take a lot of causality for a woman to frown upon her being looked at in a sexual way. I'm not saying there aren't people who feel this way, but this cannot be blamed on pornography. There are always reasons as to why we have the feelings we do: why some like porn and others hate it. My opinion is that these start forming in childhood, get altered depending on the quality of sex education we receive, and bent in according to how religious an upbringing we have, and how that upbringing may have restricted or made us feel guilty or ashamed for having sexual feelings, or viewing adult material.

    Regarding women's progress in the Western world: The way I see it, we are already there.
    I just wish these sectors of feminism would stop harping on about the almighty damages of lip gloss as a way of "The Patriarchy!" enforcing their view of sexuality upon us, and start giving a shit about women in much less fortunate countries who are forced to wear veils to conceal their entire bodies and faces, subjected to stoning and torture as a legitimate form of punishment, and endure having their clitorises cut off. But no, these bitches will use their iPhones to cry about how sex workers should be deprived the right to work because they don't like pornography. Excuse me? I thought feminism was about having the right to work in any arena I see fit?

    We should all be granted the right (which we are very fortunate to already have) to choose what we can work as. But, as I say, there are many feminists who are currently trying their damnedest to deprive us of that very privilege!
    I'm so sorry if I've gone off on tangents with this one; this topic is extremely close to me and (as you can tell, lol), I have a lot to say on the matter. It was only this morning that I sent a message to: moralityinmedia.org telling them to kindly keep their noses OUT of my work.

    You know this kind of feminism in Western society is fucked when you start arguing your rights to keep your job because of feminism.


    [EDIT] - I must also add the importance of personal responsibility.
    We are all responsible for our own well-being. -

    If a man does begin to slip in terms of his conduct with women, and start treating women around him like porn actresses, he is responsible for rectifying his behaviour.
    If I end up being in a relationship with a man who starts treating me like his own personal porn actress, hitting me up with demands like "open tits bb" on a whim, I am responsible for leaving him in the dust.
    If I, as a sex worker, end up hating my job, feeling damaged by it, I am responsible for finding another.





  6. #5
    Veteran Member shywebcamgirl's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    665
    Thanks
    1,446
    Thanked 1,437 Times in 379 Posts
    My Mood
    Yeehaw

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Nope. I don't believe that camming is damaging women's progress.

    I believe the fact that women still get paid less than men for comparable work, despite equal-pay legislation is damaging to women's progress.
    ▀ Check me out: ▀


    ▀ Follow me on Twitter: @shywebcamgirl ▀
    Quote Originally Posted by space_cowgirl View Post
    I just want to go on cam tonight and pretend to be a fire truck.


  7. #6
    Veteran Member TXCamgirl's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2011
    Posts
    449
    Thanks
    35
    Thanked 642 Times in 220 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    I am not a huge fan of the whole feminist movement anyways. Sure we are equal to men and can do anything they can do but I also accept the fact that there are certain things that women shouldn't be doing anyways. I don't think it is degrading for women to do porn and I don't think it is degrading to allow yourself to be taken care of by a man. I love being a strong independent woman who makes her own money but I also love having a husband that protects me and takes care of me because he is a big and strong and I am a tiny woman...lol. Seriously, feminists make me go WTF sometimes.

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to TXCamgirl For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    God/dess roast's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,182
    Thanks
    14,733
    Thanked 11,294 Times in 1,925 Posts
    My Mood
    Hungover

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    There is a lot of women-centered and smart porn out there. People need to... buy them so they reach a wider market.

    To answer your thread topic: no.

    Camming isnt really a good opportunity to show men what women getting off look like either, thatd be way too exhausting. Camming, the sex industry, etc. isnt community service - it is a transaction. Not too many customers are that interested in seeing a real orgasm anyway? Some are, but largely - no, they have their own fantasies or interests that theyre hoping we can take part in in fulfilling. Plenty of camgirls do get off on cam, but if we were doing it for each customer none of us would last more than 30mins live.

    People pay a fee to receive my services. Im for sale so Id like to be purchased? In fact Id like to be purchased a lot. So... I am an object. I am a commodity. In fact, I am looking very specifically to be objectified and commodified. I dont impose a good or bad value judgment to it, it is just a fact of the transaction and what my goals are when I stream. I want to be bought, I dont want to... host a teach-in about female anatomy.

    On top of that, I also buy porn. I produce porn everyday and I consume porn every so often...... So, I mean, no. Sure, Ill raise philosophical questions every so often and have discussions with people who have opposing viewpoints... but I dont view porn as being inherently bad - so Im not bothered.

    Let's say -hypothetically- porn was bad. the issue is with the demand, not the (very very smallscale) producers of it. So sex workers feeling bad about a product they produce (on a small scale, which is what cammers do) when there is mindboggingly overwhelming demand seems like a fucked up women's burden. IDK, I dont ever see groups of men handwringing over how they can get their brethren to stop fueling the EVILLLLL sex industry, in fact I never see women doing this to men either --- always the focus is on the workers of the industry. When, let's say all of us in the thread said "ya know what, porn is bad, we're leaving", ... we'd be swiftly replaced within 24hrs to accommodate both the demand and that people need jobs. So why is it always our burden? I mean, idgi.

    I probably dont get it bc I dont think porn is bad.

    BTW, Im a big scary feminist. Like unapologetic and no disclaimers and no sense of humor kind of feminist... I dont think that makes this viewpoint incompatible.





    Quote Originally Posted by Procrasturbator View Post
    So how many stumps can you fit in your pussy?


  10. #8
    Veteran Member shywebcamgirl's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    665
    Thanks
    1,446
    Thanked 1,437 Times in 379 Posts
    My Mood
    Yeehaw

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    As a side note to this topic, I'd just like to point out that there isn't one type of 'feminism.' There is a lot of misconception that 'all feminist believe this, or that'. There is actually many opposing types.

    For example:
    http://sparkcharts.sparknotes.com/wo...s/section4.php
    ▀ Check me out: ▀


    ▀ Follow me on Twitter: @shywebcamgirl ▀
    Quote Originally Posted by space_cowgirl View Post
    I just want to go on cam tonight and pretend to be a fire truck.

  11. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to shywebcamgirl For This Useful Post:


  12. #9
    Featured Member Incantatious's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,732
    Thanks
    5,214
    Thanked 8,267 Times in 1,351 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Roast, what you mentioned about object / commodities reminded me of this Tits and Sass post from a while back:
    http://titsandsass.com/the-language-...elf/#more-5722

    It's a great read and incredibly well-written imo, and well-worth checking out.

    We are no more objectified than anyone who undertakes any other kind of job:
    Bakers, during work, are "objectified" on their skills as bakers. Craftsmen, during work, are "objectified" on their skills as craftsmen... You can apply it to pretty much every kind of job.




  13. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Incantatious For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    God/dess roast's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,182
    Thanks
    14,733
    Thanked 11,294 Times in 1,925 Posts
    My Mood
    Hungover

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    things like... uhh there being a serial killer on the loose murdering sex industry workers with impunity is damaging to women's progress
    ... that women do most labor worldwide (farming, textiles, domestic, etc) for a fraction of the amount most men are paid is damaging to women's progress
    ... that not all women have access to reproductive options and knowledge is damaging to women's progress
    ...that not all women everywhere can vote is damaging to women's progress
    ... that men have 2-3x the purchasing power of women worldwide is damaging to women's progress
    ... that the number of women in govt is so low in the US and in almost every other country when women are almost 51% of the world's population is damaging to women's progress
    ... that so few sexual assaults are ever reported bc the retraumatization and risk of public shaming and isolation is just not worth it is damaging to women's progress
    ... that there are SO many posts here about camgirls, dancers, PSOs and others being 'afraid' to tell their male partner about their job in the sex industry is damaging to women's progress



    My oily vagina? On an encoder? No.





    Quote Originally Posted by Procrasturbator View Post
    So how many stumps can you fit in your pussy?

  15. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to roast For This Useful Post:


  16. #11
    God/dess roast's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,182
    Thanks
    14,733
    Thanked 11,294 Times in 1,925 Posts
    My Mood
    Hungover

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by laurielegs View Post
    If a man takes his sexual education from what he sees in porn or even Hollywood movies or a cam host instead of actually paying attention to what his partner likes and what pleases her, he isn't going to be a good lover in any case.

    There are a lot who whine about women being objectified but seems they are usually men who either want it free or are jealous that we actually make decent money instead of any number of low paying jobs like secretarial work. The ones who whine the loudest are often the biggest consumers of porn.

    Im requoting this bc Id like to hug all of the truth in this comment





    Quote Originally Posted by Procrasturbator View Post
    So how many stumps can you fit in your pussy?

  17. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to roast For This Useful Post:


  18. #12
    Newbie
    Joined
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    9
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by roast View Post
    Let's say -hypothetically- porn was bad. the issue is with the demand, not the (very very smallscale) producers of it. So sex workers feeling bad about a product they produce (on a small scale, which is what cammers do) when there is mindboggingly overwhelming demand seems like a fucked up women's burden.
    I agree with this in the most extreme way it is possible to agree. Also thanks for all the responses people. Just to be clear, I don't think porn is bad per se. I think the current trends in porn for more degrading varieties are indicative of a disturbing cultural trend, but I also think the free expression of sexuality should never be something that's considered immoral.

    In one sense I can see that this kind of work is empowering in that it offers a way to be independent in a way which most jobs don't. Flipping burgers and working in call centres are a lot more degrading for sure and I hate that a lot of the opposition to sex work seems to come from people who're pissed they have low wages and think there must be something 'immoral' about making money so easily. The same people seem to take a lot less interest in the people fucking over our economy for billions who're probably putting in far less work per dollar, but I guess that's a bit too abstract for them.

    Equally I agree that the idea that men (and women) are all malleable fools who do whatever porn tells them and are so impressionable they can't see women as more than sex objects is hugely patronising, as is the view that women who work in sex haven't really -chosen- to do it, they've been forced by societal pressure. I do still worry that being commodified might be a bad thing. Obviously it's not a bad thing for my bank account, but it plays into a huge societal trend towards seeing women as sex objects to be used to sell things. The problem is much more due to capitalism than porn, as Nina Power says excellently, but I still worry about it.

  19. #13
    Senior Member 4urpleasure's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    75
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 95 Times in 32 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    But men use cam sites and do porn as well!! And they are just as 'objectified' etc in gay porn.
    Sure, the market is smaller, but how many modern day women would hate on, dump, treat poorly if they knew their boyfriends, husbands, or the men that they are into fucked themselves for cash and got attention from women all day? How many men, if outed, would also loose their job? This is a taboo industry. Women are just predominant in it. My ex wanted to cam with me when we broke up, or even just be used as a 'stunt cock' to give me facials etc, but when he heard he had to sign up with SM he said no. He was scared of risking his job. (computer software developer for a huge/ well known industry.
    He would also never talk about it to his parents. Or tell friends.

    I think women can be disgusted by/ degrade women and men in the industry as well, and I am sure a lot of men in porn have the same fears we do. Men are just not as common right now. Also, women are less likely to look at porn/ live in the dark ages sexually, so they don't go on and give men a lot of shit like some of them men we have now. I also find that the biggest porn/ slut haters are women. Women are always whore/ slut shamming, and sometimes even being aggressive or violent when a woman dresses promiscuously and can shun them or hurt them socially. I have experienced this, and I think people forget that women are just as bad, they just can't 'degrade themselves' to view porn and insult people the same way men do. ( the prudish women). Oh, and we get nutters like Shelly whatever the fuck her last name is. lubeden? luben? whatever. she's not worth googling to find out. Anyways, she just makes a sham of the industry and instills fear in it more so than any man has, I am sure.

    I hope all of this slut/whore/porn shamming this may change in the future, but really, I just hope people get more accepting of this and allow everyone to live their lives.
    For now, I will just keep dreaming.

    Aside from the basic concerns of camming, that my ex had, I feel that camming has been a godsend, and has had nothing but a positive effect on me. I think a lot of women can say the same. So I don't feel as though it is setting us back, I feel as though it is pushing us forward. A sexually open era is a progressive era.

  20. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to 4urpleasure For This Useful Post:


  21. #14
    Featured Member Incantatious's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,732
    Thanks
    5,214
    Thanked 8,267 Times in 1,351 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Attractive people in general, men and women alike, (heck, even kids and... animals I guess! They probably groom the ever-loving crap out of animals before they go on set!) will likely always, always be used to sell shit. They even photoshop food to make it look prettier and... sexier! (Not that like, they photoshop a pair of ba-bam-bams onto a chicken wing.. that would just be... obscene... but hopefully you know what I mean! I am very sleep deprived, also!)

    Advertising loves to prey on our instincts; I can't see it changing. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I mean, just personally I've never been that interested in starring in a L'Oreal commercial! I think the safety is just in knowing that no one is necessarily going to judge you the same way as a casting company would be for commercials. And, if you're worried that the sexualization of women in the media is going to raise the expectations of guys in the looks department to impossible levels, well if that IS in effect, then it's one hella good way of sorting the wheat from the chaff in regards to how generally superficial he is, and how much, or how little emphasis he puts on what's between your ears!

    Life would be so much more simple! I'd just turn up to a date with no "HD formula BLU-RAY foundation" on, or just unveil my pussy to any prospective partner, and if he screams and runs for the hills, I move on! A simple process of elimination!

    I don't think it does, though. Honestly. As an example, through my own media, anti-porn, and feminism travels, (but I'm sure many have encountered this one before), I've witnessed a ton of rants and raves about how porn and media puts pressure on women to shave their pussies bare. People get themselves into huge kerfuffles over this one. But since entering the realm of adult work, I've been praised to high heavens for having a hairy pussy. I think that example does a lot to show that regardless of how the media depicts women, men still like all different kinds of women. My god... I'm going to end up on another bloody tangent about niches again with this, aren't I? XD

    Bottom line: My pussy hair is significantly more substantial now, than it was before I started being a camgirl...
    I have no idea how useful this information is but for some reason felt it was relevant...

    Perhaps the question is: Should porn be considered under the same umbrella (ella ella) as mainstream media (like commercials?)

    So perhaps New Bottom Line!: Watch less TV; watch moar porn.

    Porn loves your body.

    Wao... I am the porn hippy! (Please can I be the porn hippy? )




  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Incantatious For This Useful Post:


  23. #15
    Senior Member 4urpleasure's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    75
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 95 Times in 32 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    I love having my puss shaved because I love the smooth feeling, it makes me feel more secure about taste/ smell, discomfort for my partner, and I just feel sexy. Have always been this way. Porn was never an influence, personally.

    I agree with what you say about advertising, it's something that applies to virtually everything we use and desire. Something will influence us, some things will not, depends on who we are.
    And I am a shaved puss lady through and through.

    In term of porn being a kind of media, I think it is. We sell ourselves, we sell ideas, fantasies. Just like any other advertisement. If only more women would watch more porn. The world would be a happier place.

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 4urpleasure For This Useful Post:


  25. #16
    Featured Member Incantatious's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,732
    Thanks
    5,214
    Thanked 8,267 Times in 1,351 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4urpleasure View Post
    I love having my puss shaved because I love the smooth feeling, it makes me feel more secure about taste/ smell, discomfort for my partner, and I just feel sexy. Have always been this way. Porn was never an influence, personally.

    I agree with what you say about advertising, it's something that applies to virtually everything we use and desire. Something will influence us, some things will not, depends on who we are.
    And I am a shaved puss lady through and through.

    In term of porn being a kind of media, I think it is. We sell ourselves, we sell ideas, fantasies. Just like any other advertisement. If only more women would watch more porn. The world would be a happier place.
    BOHH I must say I didn't meant to imply that shaved = media pressured! I'm so sorry if I came off that way! *face-palm*
    Must add, I am really loving your posts on this BTW!




  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Incantatious For This Useful Post:


  27. #17
    Senior Member 4urpleasure's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    75
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 95 Times in 32 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Incantatious View Post
    BOHH I must say I didn't meant to imply that shaved = media pressured! I'm so sorry if I came off that way! *face-palm*
    Must add, I am really loving your posts on this BTW!
    Thanks hon, I have been enjoying your train of thought as well. To be honest, it is possible I just read too much into it. I am tired from my shift and have been having that 'wonderful' malaise feeling and have been a bit grumpy today. It seems to be a 'fail' day, and my day started with a nightmare involving my ex so my thought process has been a bit scattered. I am enjoying cam philosophy and principles. It needs to be discussed more often, and with less morons, if you know what I mean...heh.

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 4urpleasure For This Useful Post:


  29. #18
    God/dess Cam_Model_Jess's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,533
    Thanks
    6,705
    Thanked 5,856 Times in 1,676 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    [QUOTE=PippySweet;2306721Just to be clear, I don't think porn is bad per se. I think the current trends in porn for more degrading varieties are indicative of a disturbing cultural trend...[/QUOTE]

    This is an interesting point. I am noticing that trend in my shows as well.

    This is simplifying it quite a bit, but... do you ever think that we will get rid of bullies? All kinds of bullies, I mean. People who feel the need to make fun of others and to degrade others so they can feel better about themselves? If not, then I doubt that we will ever be clear of the sigma attached to porn... that it's all we're good for, that it's degrading for women to do it, etc... because there will always be people who need to see us like that. No one exists without a definition. Everyone needs someone else to complete their perception/definition of themselves. In that way, we are NEVER truly independent. Bullies are VERY dependent on the people who they bully, to give them purpose. So who truly has the power in that relationship?

    When men come into my room and call me "whore," it's because they need to feel powerful and need to feel like they are using me. I am a morally inferior person. The part that will always baffle me is how they are morally superior using my services. I'm not saying I agree with others' view on the morality of porn/camming. I'm just questioning the mentality of those who believe we are scum and how, using what we are offering, are better than us. I guess it's just always been like that and, as mentioned, has to do with training. I was watching an "old west" show the other day and was listening to how the men were talking about/treating the prostitutes. But, for the most part, those girls were owned.

    I suppose some could argue that I am owned too, since I pay 2/3 of my income to a company who "pimps" me out. But I can quit whenever I want to and get a different job. I choose to continue doing this. I have to remind myself of that some days.

    Anyway, back to my main point. Views on certain portions of society exist because they help uphold the overall social fabric of the community. In language, the meaning of certain words exist because of their relationship to other words. All words need other words to give them definition... or at least give them the ability to be expressed as concepts... or, if you're from the camp that believes that we need words to conceptualize things, then some words are COMPLETELY dependent on other words for their meaning. Before I get going too far on this...

    Think about man/woman in those terms. Women comes after man and is defined by man. Woman does not exist unless man exists, because the concept of "woman" can not be known in the absence of the concept of "man." In a dichotomy, the second word depends on the first for its meaning AND its existence. However, the reverse is also true. Since woman HAS existed, man has gained definition by his relationship to woman, both similarities and differences, but mostly differences. He is only "man" because he is not "woman." And who defined what "woman" is?

    When woman redefines herself by stepping out of the prescribed gender roles, she is no longer "woman" as defined in the man's mind (and in his training perhaps). If she can no longer be called "woman" then she must be called something else. Perhaps "bitch"? Maybe "whore"? How about "slut"? Do none of those fit? Then maybe he'll just have to "act out" exactly how he feels about your deviation from your role. Maybe he can hurt you or get you to hurt yourself? Why? Well, who is he if you are not "woman"? How have you redefined him? And if you are redefining your role in the dichotomy, you are (by definition?...) redefining his role. Wait a minute... I thought the woman was supposed to be the one who was defined by the man? Well, if man had redefined himself first, that would be true. But you, woman, had to go and do it. Now what? How is he supposed to act when you have proven yourself powerful enough to cause him to question who he is in his essence? Do you SEE how BIG that is?

    (I guess I should qualify this. ALL men are not like this, because all men do not fit their prescribed gender role either, and/or all men do not feel threatened by a redefinition by a very small portion of the female sex.)

    Where am I going with this? This bully thing again. I'll stop there. You're all a bunch of very smart ladies, so I know you get it. I love this thread.
    Last edited by Cam_Model_Jess; 03-01-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Cam_Model_Jess For This Useful Post:


  31. #19
    God/dess Cam_Model_Jess's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,533
    Thanks
    6,705
    Thanked 5,856 Times in 1,676 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by roast View Post
    Let's say -hypothetically- porn was bad. the issue is with the demand, not the (very very smallscale) producers of it. So sex workers feeling bad about a product they produce (on a small scale, which is what cammers do) when there is mindboggingly overwhelming demand seems like a fucked up women's burden. IDK, I dont ever see groups of men handwringing over how they can get their brethren to stop fueling the EVILLLLL sex industry, in fact I never see women doing this to men either --- always the focus is on the workers of the industry. When, let's say all of us in the thread said "ya know what, porn is bad, we're leaving", ... we'd be swiftly replaced within 24hrs to accommodate both the demand and that people need jobs. So why is it always our burden? I mean, idgi.
    Yes! I agree. Why does the sex worker have more responsibility than the purchaser of the sex worker's product (be it sex, DVD porn, internet porn, cam session)? Because we're the ones peddling it? Supply and demand, people. Like roast said, people find a way to fill a demand with supply. It will happen somehow. History is full of wars started over a lack of "supply," a threat to cut off "supply," etc... and it doesn't matter what that supply is.

    If you feel guilty about being that supply, then stop being it. But someone else will take your place. You're not going to stop the demand by removing yourself from the equation because the demand is so much more powerful. But if you don't want to participate, don't. (I'm not speaking to anyone in particular here.)

    As Incantatious said, "If I end up being in a relationship with a man who starts treating me like his own personal porn actress, hitting me up with demands like "open tits bb" on a whim, I am responsible for leaving him in the dust.
    If I, as a sex worker, end up hating my job, feeling damaged by it, I am responsible for finding another."
    Last edited by Cam_Model_Jess; 03-01-2012 at 11:34 AM.

  32. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Cam_Model_Jess For This Useful Post:


  33. #20
    God/dess minniesoporno's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,694
    Thanks
    1,531
    Thanked 6,006 Times in 2,530 Posts
    Blog Entries
    107
    My Mood
    Cheerful

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Nope, I am now going on 9 years for being a webcam model and in the sex industry in total. what I have found is that most people have no idea what a webcam model is. I find myself explaning more of what a webcam model does, then I do if I mentioned that I am also an escort or any other job in the sex industry. Whenever you put sex and money together in the same sentence people have quams about it. webcam modeling, phone sex is probably the safest out of all the sex industry jobs because of the fact you can be working at home in your own space on your own terms.

    I hate the fact that when I was giving it away for free to any body who gave me a little attention I wasn't judged but as soon as I put a price tag on my lady bits people want to jump in with thier opinions.
    Stripperweb is closing! Join me over at WeCamgirls

    A part of all you earn is yours to keep. It should be not less than a tenth no matter how little you earn. It can be as much more as you can afford. - Richest Man in Babylon

    Youtube : youtube.com/minniecriley | Facebook MinnieCRiley | Instagram @MinnieCRiley | Twitter @MinnieCRiley

  34. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to minniesoporno For This Useful Post:


  35. #21
    God/dess Cam_Model_Jess's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,533
    Thanks
    6,705
    Thanked 5,856 Times in 1,676 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Incantatious View Post

    Bottom line: My pussy hair is significantly more substantial now, than it was before I started being a camgirl...
    I have no idea how useful this information is but for some reason felt it was relevant...

    Perhaps the question is: Should porn be considered under the same umbrella (ella ella) as mainstream media (like commercials?)

    So perhaps New Bottom Line!: Watch less TV; watch moar porn.

    Porn loves your body.

    Wao... I am the porn hippy! (Please can I be the porn hippy? )
    I LOVE YOU You're so fucking hilarious. And yet this is pretty deep still. Sounds like you're in "the zone" with this.

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cam_Model_Jess For This Useful Post:


  37. #22
    Senior Member 4urpleasure's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    75
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 95 Times in 32 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cam_Model_Jess View Post
    This is an interesting point. I am noticing that trend in my shows as well.

    This is simplifying it quite a bit, but... do you ever think that we will get rid of bullies? All kinds of bullies, I mean. People who feel the need to make fun of others and to degrade others so they can feel better about themselves? If not, then I doubt that we will ever be clear of the sigma attached to porn... that it's all we're good for, that it's degrading for women to do it, etc... because there will always be people who need to see us like that.

    When men come into my room and call me "whore," it's because they need to feel powerful and need to feel like they are using me. I am a morally inferior person. The part that will always baffle me is how they are morally superior using my services. I'm not saying I agree with others' view on the morality of porn/camming. I'm just questioning the mentality of those who believe we are scum and how, using what we are offering, are better than us. I guess it's just always been like that and, as mentioned, has to do with training. I was watching an "old west" show the other day and was listening to how the men were talking about/treating the prostitutes. But, for the most part, those girls were owned.

    I suppose some could argue that I am owned too, since I pay 2/3 of my income to a company who "pimps" me out. But I can quit whenever I want to and get a different job. I choose to continue doing this. I have to remind myself of that some days.

    Anyway, back to my main point. Views on certain portions of society exist because they help uphold the overall social fabric of the community. In language, the meaning of certain words exist because of their relationship to other words. All words need other words to give them definition... or at least the give them the ability to be expressed as concepts... or, if you're from the camp that believes that we need words to conceptualize things, then some words are COMPLETELY dependent on other words for their meaning. Before I get going too far on this...

    Think about man/woman in those terms. Women comes after man and is defined by man. Woman does not exist unless man exists, because the concept of "woman" can not be known in the absence of the concept of "man." In a dichotomy, the second word depends on the first for its meaning AND its existence. However, the reverse is also true. Since woman has existed, man has gained definition by his relationship to woman, both similarities and differences, but mostly differences. He is only "man" because he is not "woman." And who defined what "woman" is?

    When woman redefines herself by stepping out of the prescribed gender roles, she is no longer "woman" as defined in the man's mind (and in his training perhaps). If she can no longer be called "woman" then she must be called something else. Perhaps "bitch"? Maybe "whore"? How about "slut"? Do none of those fit? Then maybe he'll just have to "act out" exactly how he feels about your deviation from your role. Maybe he can hurt you or get you to hurt yourself? Why? Well, who is he if you are not "woman"? How have you redefined him? And if you are redefining your role in the dichotomy, you are (be definition?) redefining his role. Wait a minute... I thought the woman was supposed to be the one who was defined by the man? Well, if man had redefined himself first, that would be true. But you, woman, had to go and do it. Now what? How is he supposed to act when you have proven yourself powerful enough to cause him to question who he is in his essence? Do you SEE how BIG that is?

    Where am I going with this? This bully thing again. I'll stop there. You're all a bunch of very smart ladies, so I know you get it. I love this thread.
    Who are you referring too in terms of a simplified view? Now in terms of wishing that a stigma against the sex industry could change, I think that t actually could. Here are a few reasons why.

    1) Cosmo, various other magazines are getting more sex friendly.
    2) We have porn stores that are now owned by women, classy, and very sex friendly/ workshop friendly.
    3) We have more less taboo/ positive media on sex work. Think Belle DeJour. ( sp?) Media is an outlet and can control mindsets.
    4) We have more forums/ sex positive groups that are reachable through the internet, through sex shops, an even posted online.

    You talk a lot about the lack of respect men have for women in general, and a lot, if not all your points are indeed true. However, I would like to say that it is not applicable to most people of the world, or especially in progressive countries like North American, and pockets of Europe. Hell, even in the middle east ( did an anthro project and this is statistics so bear that in mind) more well educated families are not sexist or run by a matriarch system. They often move to North American to escape that, or they stay in the middle east and continue running a equality based family. That was not as common or as heard of 40 years ago. Especially not educated women. Like any kind of 'ism' sexism, racism, and other social phobias like Xenophobia ( a bit different from racism) and homophobia, you will always have pockets of people with those fears/ hate, and you will always find people who will be bullies. However, it is undeniable that these taboos/ fears/ hate groups have come a very long way in the past few decades. Take for example, interracial relationships, homosexual relationships, and women's rights! I mean go back just 20 years! Did you ever think gay marriage would ever be accepted? Or that we could even push for it? Hells no. Sure, is it not accepted everywhere, but look at how many well respected places it is legal now? Media has allowed more and more people to become okay with homosexuality by showcasing gay relationships, and having gay celebrities come out. I feel as though this can be applicable to the other social stigma's as well.

    Just look at how quickly books on sex workers sell now days! A new one came out, I forget the title... Sex and Samosa's? and I saw it in Chapters, but also in a very tiny Indian Boutique. Even though it is a book by a Canadian/ Indian writer, do you think that if sex work was not being preceived as more tolerable, that old woman from this tiny boutique would showcase it? with balloons and a large stand and sign? Very very doubtful. If anything, it would be shunned because it is 'immoral'. How many noobie sex workers come into this industry, stripping or escorting and want to be Belle DeJoure? Venus envy (a very sex positive, girly,sex shop completely staffed by women) is packed all the time from people of all sorts, ages and backgrounds..Hell, they love it when I go in, talk to me about work, are super helpful and offer sex workers a discount. How common would that have been years ago? How many sex friend articles does Cosmo now host? And a lot of them are on sexual taboos, stripper fantasies. Look at how pole dancing classes have sky rocketed! it is no longer taboo.People want to learn about sex. Women now want to be able to orgasm every time they fuck, men want to actually make their lovers cum, and can be embarrassed if they cannot. I am young, but I know that this was not the mindset of someone from 30-40 years ago. Maybe not even 20 years ago. Sure, it's always been there, but it is not nearly as mainstream.

    Sure, hate of any kind is never going to go away. Ever, you are right, there will always be bullied.Sure, we are not entirely there on breaking the stigma enforced on sex workers, but it is undeniable that it can be broken to the point where is it no longer a mainstream hate anymore. It can be considered tolerable, accepted and we can be treated with more respect by the majority of people. People, like homosexuals, and people of other races, can be protected from loosing their jobs over nothing. We can eventually be able to fight against it. It has happened for other types of social stigmas, why not sex work? we are well on our way, and the past five years even, have been nothing but progressive. In terms of prescribed gender roles and the like, being a misogynistic ass is no longer a mainstream vogue like it was 30 years ago. Movies would get a lot of shit for promoting that, sure it can happen at times, but it is not a popular idea anymore. It is not really expected to be treated and treat women that way now. So, all of this being said, I feel as though we are well on our way to beating sexism and the stigma from sex work, but like every evil in the world, it will never go away completely, and that is the reality. However, we can make people who are cruel to sex workers have a negative stigma as well. Just like we have done with the terms homophobes, racists, misogynists, Xenophobes etc etc etc.
    I have hope for the future, and I don't feel it is unrealistic. I actually think it is backed up quiet logically.

  38. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 4urpleasure For This Useful Post:


  39. #23
    God/dess Cam_Model_Jess's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,533
    Thanks
    6,705
    Thanked 5,856 Times in 1,676 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    "simplified" as in my own example which follows (i was describing my own example as being a simplified one).

    i was referring only to the trend which requires or requests more violence in porn/camming shows. maybe i didn't make that clear enough.

    i was also referring to comments about how people are "trained" or "programmed" to act. so sure, if a guy was not raised in a certain way and was not exposed to certain kinds of sexual programming, then he's not going to act in the same way. i don't think that men, in general, have a lack of respect for women. we are talking about the camming world, are we not? but i do not believe that women have gender equality yet. and it's not that i think it won't happen... it will just take a very long time to get there, and take a lot of people get used to new ways of thinking.

    there are lots of different situations, lots of different customers, lots of different performers, and of course what i said can't be applied to all of them. i'm married to someone who doesn't treat women badly, so of course i know there are exceptions. i think maybe my statements are being taken too literally/liberally? my example of dichotomy can only be applied to EVERY man if it can be applied to EVERY woman, and it obviously can't be applied to every woman. again, we're talking about camming.

    however, in my experience, there has been a rise in the request/demand for- and expectation of- violence in my shows. by violence i mean gagging, choking, face fucking, anal ramming/gaping, bondage, pain, etc. some people don't consider all these things to be violent. but basically the guys are requesting rough sex/violence/pain (or the illusion of these things) from me more. now sure, it could be the sites that we're being advertised on. i'm just suggesting that it might be something different. it might be the challenging of these roles. also, i find it interesting that the more i resist doing certain things, the more i assert that i won't do what i'm not comfortable with, etc., the more forceful/violent/insistent customers tend to get with me. there are fewer guys willing to take no for an answer and more guys who are willing to give bad ratings because i won't beat myself to a bloody pulp for $x.xx/min like a good sex worker should.

    but i DO think that i was pretty well off-topic with my original post, since the OP was asking if we think that we're contributing negatively to women's situation in general. when i first started camming, my answer to that would have been yes. but now, i don't think that's true. i do believe that some men will view women in a more negative/subservient light because of it, but i don't believe that it majorly contributes in any way, and i think that in some ways what we do may eventually help "women" in general in the long run.
    Last edited by Cam_Model_Jess; 03-01-2012 at 02:36 PM.

  40. The Following User Says Thank You to Cam_Model_Jess For This Useful Post:


  41. #24
    Featured Member Rina's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,197
    Thanks
    2,262
    Thanked 3,149 Times in 892 Posts

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    I think the question is by itself as problematic. It appears to assume that all consumers of porn are male, and that they are all watching women. For the sake of discussion I though, let's say that's true. Because a man watches a woman perform sex acts for money it does not necessarily follow that he will view all women as commodities unless it is his only experience with women. I would think few people are so isolated. So for you average male porn is comprising one small part of his view of women. How much it colors that view is likely to be influenced by his personal experiences with women. I think the greater danger to women the devaluing them in the culture at large.

    Now to the question of being a sex-worker if I may steal from the wonderful bell hooks, there is something to be said for choosing the margin as a space of radical openness. I've made a personal vow this year to try to get a little more radical on my customers. treat them more like them men in my real life. So we'll see but the fact is the is entire culture is carries the taint of sexism here and there and nobody anywhere escapes it 100%, and sometimes that's okay sometimes that can be the place where we can make change.
    "You want to fuck with eagles you have to learn to fly"- Heathers
    Quote Originally Posted by Graceface View Post
    ho ho ho ho merry banmas!!!!

  42. The Following User Says Thank You to Rina For This Useful Post:


  43. #25
    God/dess ManyRoses's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,103
    Thanks
    1,297
    Thanked 7,598 Times in 1,955 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default Re: Do you worry that camming is bad for women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Incantatious View Post
    We are no more objectified than anyone who undertakes any other kind of job:
    Bakers, during work, are "objectified" on their skills as bakers. Craftsmen, during work, are "objectified" on their skills as craftsmen... You can apply it to pretty much every kind of job.
    Can I shout this to the world, please? This is EXACTLY how I feel!! Yes, when I am dealing with customers, they are "objectifying" me as a sex object, because I AM SELLING SEX! Duh. In every. Single. Job. Your customers will treat you as one-dimensional - as whatever service you are providing. They may well treat you respectfully, get to know you as a regular, chat, joke, etc....I do this with my nail technician. But I still see her, primarily, as my nail technician. This doesn't mean that I am degrading her, disrespecting her, or anything else. I don't think she minds. In fact, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if I suddenly started treating her like we were besties, or I had the right to ask her all sorts of personal questions, she would be seriously pissed off that we were stepping outside of the bounds of our relationship.

    Most importantly - Just because I "objectify" my nail technician as "just" a nail techncian, I am not suddenly going to start waving my hands at every woman I meet, demanding that they give me a buff and file. Being an intelligent human being, I am able to separate the profession of one woman that I know, and my expectations of all women, ever.

    I'd like to think that the people who consume porn are equally as capable of recognizing the difference between the girl serving them coffee, and the girl serving them pussy.
    I take cash, debit or credit. I just don't take shit.


    OnlyFans.com/ScarlettMoore

    Follow me on twitter! @MissScarlettM

    Hear me ramble about random things:

  44. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ManyRoses For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Camming sites for "thick", women with curves and/or BBW
    By strippername in forum Camming Connection
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 07:39 AM
  2. my first night camming was not bad
    By jadenraine in forum Other Work
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-13-2010, 02:54 PM
  3. Do Most Women Prefer "Bad Boys" ?
    By lestat1 in forum General Board
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 01-12-2004, 12:37 PM
  4. should i worry?
    By in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-03-2003, 04:25 AM
  5. Women...Just as Bad as Men!!! LMAO!
    By fishnet in forum General Board
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-13-2003, 03:33 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •