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Thread: Where does the line go?

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    Default Where does the line go?

    As I have mentioned in my pervious post, they recently had Soap documentary about the strip club industry, making it look very bad and dark. This have now made so the owner in the club have had to change some of the rules for the girls, and cus. Now when they do private show the cus have to sit on his hands, and the girls have to dance 2 meters away from the customers and they are no longer aloud to sit on cus lap or grace up against him. because according the to police advocate (after she had seen the footage form the club)in the documentary say this could be almost considered solicitation sex or paying for sex but it is in the gray area of the law, (sitting on his lap, kissing him on the cheek, and putting her breast in his mouth, putting her fingers between her legs.) even though there no actually physical sexual act going on except for her giving a good show.

    To me the solicitation for sex or crossing the line to where it would be paying for sex would first be when there is actually sexual contact, such as letting him lick her between her legs, taking out his private and play with it, giving the cus a bj. And off course taking with girl with you to a hotel, up until then you are not paying for sex, you are paying for a good strip show.

    Here is a link for you to see part of the documentary they had, and where they filmed undercover



    for those of you who goes on the link and see the clip, its I s about 90sec with 45sec inside the club (most of it is in Norwegian, but inside the club they speak English so you can understand what they say) in short, they pay for a private show and the girls give a great show, and the reports say, that unless he had stopped and left, she would have taken it much fatherJ…as if he would have really said NO…hehehe

    Hope some you will give your opinion on this where do you cross the line,

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    God/dess cherryblossomsinspring's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    So this is a Norwegian club documentary about solicitation of sex and some gray areas. So now the customers sit on their hands again? Well that's the way strip clubs used to be before the high two way high contact lap dances sprung up. Not really certain that this will changes things for clubs in the US, UK or Canada. Here in the US I feel some club owners pay off LE so they don't take an issue with what happens in these clubs. I mean some clubs are know for high extras and you wonder how they've been doing this without being raided. When a raid happens it generally seems to surround someone not getting their check for the month or maybe a newbie in office that want's to "make a difference" before he learns to play ball.

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    LE does not need to be payed off if there is no actual sexual contact going on. Meaning, breast-touching during a dance is perfectly legal as that is not intercourse. Illegal would be direct genital-to-genital contact for sure and I have never once attempted this myself (nor do I want to).
    My understanding of a "high two way high contact" lap dance is any kind of touching that does not involve the genitals of either party. If the dancer rubs the custy's lap with her hand (meaning she really only rubs the pants fabric) as part of the dance this is perfectly legal. If the dancer allows the custy to rub her breasts with his hands, even if it's skin to skin, this is still legal because breasts are not genitalia.
    Personally, if a club allows high contact, then it's up to the dancer. If the dancer allows high contact, then that is her prerogative if she feels she can make more money that way. If she doesn't allow it, then that is also her prerogative and the custy should probably sit on his hands.
    Last edited by socialreject; 03-17-2012 at 07:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    LE does not need to be payed off if there is no actual sexual contact going on. Meaning, breast-touching during a dance is perfectly legal as that is not intercourse.
    Actually this is not true. There is a huge difference between what is legal and what is tolerated and what is tolerated can be very fluid depending on the region and local political climate. You will never find a local prostitution ordinance anywhere that says touching of breasts is legal. Most ordinances define "titillation" as part of the act of prostitution. If the local authorities decide to crack-down (as has happened in quite a few areas that I club in over the years) the simple act of hugging can be enough to get a dancer in trouble and a customer warned pr thrown out of a club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Well, I'm not naive enough to argue with you on "tolerance". The Religious Right politicians and officials seem to be the ones ignoring actual law in favor of personal agendas (regarding exotic dancing).

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    LE does not need to be payed off if there is no actual sexual contact going on. Meaning, breast-touching during a dance is perfectly legal as that is not intercourse. Illegal would be direct genital-to-genital contact for sure and I have never once attempted this myself (nor do I want to).
    My understanding of a "high two way high contact" lap dance is any kind of touching that does not involve the genitals of either party. If the dancer rubs the custy's lap with her hand (meaning she really only rubs the pants fabric) as part of the dance this is perfectly legal. If the dancer allows the custy to rub her breasts with his hands, even if it's skin to skin, this is still legal because breasts are not genitalia.
    Personally, if a club allows high contact, then it's up to the dancer. If the dancer allows high contact, then that is her prerogative if she feels she can make more money that way. If she doesn't allow it, then that is also her prerogative and the custy should probably sit on his hands.

    Actually this isn't incorrect. It's not "her prerogative". She may do it to pay her bills but if she ends up getting an officer that's undercover , and they do at times try to set up stings, she will not only get busted but so will the entire club. The laws didn't change to allow breast touching. You're really not supposed to be touching the dancers at all. Even some clubs got raided in the past for a dancer not having two feet on the floor at all times. Because the laws were enforced back then , many girls would get fired or fined on the spot for doing even the smallest things. A dancer letting a guy touch her breasts in the past would have been thrown out on her ass. That why in the past strippers were viewed as mearly visual entertainment. There were maybe 1 or 2 extras girls but what they did was so hidden that only a few people knew about it.

    Air Dances, fully choreographed stage performances and elaborate dance wear/costumes/gowns were the norm. Any dancer caught attempting anything deemed to be inappropriate was generally let go because club owners didn't want to get busted all over some customer trying to push a boundary. Raids were common for some club owners felt they could get away with it and later they had to close their doors for good. Most dancers were paid a base salary and other a premium salary where tips were kept. Lap dances were not even heard simply for the fact that they brought out a desire in customers to cross boundaries similar to what happens today.

    Now dancers have to pay to work in the club and split their profits for LDs as well. Girls could walk out owing the club after a night of practically being molested. Not to mention that everyone working has to be tipped by the dancers even if those employees that spent the night on the shitter.

    That's also why when a dancer does complain about someone doing something inappropriate and the police are called , the police don't do a damn thing. "But he stuck his finger up my ass and held me down".
    Manager to police officer: "Sorry for the misunderstanding, we have the situation handled $$$$. Come back on your day off and we'll set you up". wink , wink.

    Politicians pick their battles and right now SC's are not that big of a concern. When the economy issues level out they'll pick some new area to focus in on. They always do. Currently there is one politician that wants to do away with all pornography. If he gets elected who know what will happen to the industry. The change in SC industry standards was a result of the economy taking a nose dive. Club owners didn't want to loose their customer base and instead opted to make girls pay what they couldn't get from customers + giving customers more "bang" for their buck or as close to that as possible.

    It's similar to that of cam sites having privacy screens set up so even if a underage person got on the site, they couldn't see anything because they'd have to do a private with a cc. Now you got free public shows in HD without any verification what so ever. All it will take is some upset MOTHER writing a letter to her congressman and the gig will be up. Right now it's not important that some kid could be watching free toy shows but rather will the kid have a home to live in if his parents don't get a job. What's really more important here?

    There's even a club right now that's charging their dancers an extra $20-$40 a night because they are going to be doing renovations to the club. Is that not the most fucked up thing you've ever heard? That's like a site saying they want to upgrade their features and for about 6 months will be extracting an extra percentage out of the model's pay.

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    I don't know whether to thank the current economic down turn, or abhor it. On the one hand, yes I know dancers deal with a lot of bullshit (LE and management) and smelly, filthy, touchy customers because they know if they don't, it's potentially less money (on a side note, I thought LDs have always been around?).
    Yet on the other hand, I'm not exactly rich. And I started going to SCs after all the high-contact LD stuff became "normal". I always make sure I'm clean and presentable before I enter the club (shower beforehand). I always ask first if she minds touching (with a new dancer) and always get a yes for an answer. So I can say I've unfortunately been spoiled rotten by these "normal" extras. I expect touching because from my perspective it is perfectly normal (as far as hands-to-breasts, hands-to-butt, and lap-grinding).
    I suppose I can always keep asking if touching is okay, and if not, then I won't do it. What I hate to say is this might deter future LD purchases from her.
    This does not mean, however, that I will do something as terrible as this:

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    ...Is anyone disturbed that this is being filmed without her knowledge? Not that what she's doing is *legal*, but its still *illegal* to be filmed (and distributed) without your knowledge/permission. That always freaked me out. The possibility of a customer having a hidden cam recording our VIP for his own personal gain. Creepy.

    Dancing is not what it used to be. I have a feeling, in the near future, only about 10% of clubs out there will both have money + not be dirty. And most will go on a hiring freeze + hire super selectively like they did in the 80s/90s.
    Last edited by GlamourRouge; 03-18-2012 at 08:15 PM. Reason: grammar

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    Well, I'm not naive enough to argue with you on "tolerance". The Religious Right politicians and officials seem to be the ones ignoring actual law in favor of personal agendas (regarding exotic dancing).
    While exotic dancing, as a performance, is protected under the constitution there are no laws that protect lap dances or allow contact between dancer and customer. Once clothing comes off and contact occurs there is a very good chance that laws are being broken. All strip clubs operate under the shadow of local prostitution and lewd or lascivious behavior laws. Local authorities will enforce or ignore those laws at their discretion. The fact is, in many areas a naked woman touching her own genitals can be arrested for solicitation.

    Clearly the actual written laws are ignored quite a bit of the time but that doesn't mean that they always will be. Just ask the dozens of dancers in Tampa who have been arrested for solicitation over the years every time the local authorities crack-down on the over-the-top contact and extras offered in the city's strip clubs...
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    While exotic dancing, as a performance, is protected under the constitution there are no laws that protect lap dances or allow contact between dancer and customer. Once clothing comes off and contact occurs there is a very good chance that laws are being broken. All strip clubs operate under the shadow of local prostitution and lewd or lascivious behavior laws. Local authorities will enforce or ignore those laws at their discretion. The fact is, in many areas a naked woman touching her own genitals can be arrested for solicitation.

    Clearly the actual written laws are ignored quite a bit of the time but that doesn't mean that they always will be. Just ask the dozens of dancers in Tampa who have been arrested for solicitation over the years every time the local authorities crack-down on the over-the-top contact and extras offered in the city's strip clubs...
    I guess I just find it so hard to believe that I'm breaking the law every time I touch a dancer's breasts during a LD, since that is what is normal here. It's not like I have to book a VIP room waaayy in the back in a dark corner to do this. This is being done in plain sight right out in the open.
    I suppose the point is that every area is different, even in the same state.

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    I think the point is that there is enough gray area in the law that law enforcement can use scare tactics and extort money from the citizens they are supposed to protect. Sorta like how police officers hide in areas where there are several speed limit changes in a short distance because it's their job to extort money (as far as I can tell). They certainly aren't very good at protecting people or recovering stolen property. No.. mostly they extort money from people, that's pretty much their job.

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    I guess I just find it so hard to believe that I'm breaking the law every time I touch a dancer's breasts during a LD, since that is what is normal here.
    Not surprising since most dancers who offer extras don't think of themselves as engaging in acts of prostitution either...
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    I guess I just find it so hard to believe that I'm breaking the law every time I touch a dancer's breasts during a LD, since that is what is normal here. It's not like I have to book a VIP room waaayy in the back in a dark corner to do this. This is being done in plain sight right out in the open.
    I suppose the point is that every area is different, even in the same state.
    It wouldn't matter where i was or what the law says, if you tried to touch my boob during a lapdance you're gonna get my stiletto up your nose regardless of what other dancers do.
    ''I love fake boobs''
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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Thank you everyone for your input in this discussion, I appreciate it very much. I do see and understand, that it is gray area, where it is hard to see where the line goes. It truly boils down, the politicians and who has the most authority of what is ok and what is not. I understand that the US and Canada along with UK have the same type of rules as we have in Norway, and it is a pain, as they can not give straight answer on where the lines goes. Hopefully one day they will decide on it, but until then all we can do is wait and see.

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    Default Re: Where does the line go?

    Not on the floor. When a customer tries it, I tell him not to and hold his hands down. If he persists, I stop. No refunds. No offense, I just don't wanna get fired over 20 bucks.

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