




This person hasn't even had the surgery yet and the school already has transgendered residences so he is just making trouble.





First of all, if y'all havnt noticed already, Im a huge LGBT supporter...
...but I will call BS when I see it, and this student is just trying to find a reason to cause a ruckus.
I dont believe in pulling the race card, and I dont believe in pulling the gender identity card either.
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The comments on this article are painful....
And I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but can you guys explain why you think this person is just stirring up trouble? I didn't watch the video (and only the first link worked for me), so maybe that's why I don't get it.... Do they only allow to women work in the positions in the all-female dorm (and only men in the all male)? If this is the case, then I can see why he would be upset. And it would seem like a university that cares about gender politics enough to have gender-neutral housing would see that?
But if men and women work both work the dorms regardless of what gender lives there, then yeah I can see how his complaint is kind of irrelevant. I don't know. I feel like I'm missing something here, so please, enlighten me.
And for the record, I don't think it's fair to decide the treatment a transgender person receives based on the physical transition. Surgery is a big fucking deal, and not something everyone can afford or even wants to do, so to write off a person's desires to be treated as the gender they identify with because "they haven't even had the surgery yet" is unfair, to say the least.
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Did anyone else notice the contradictory statements Kass made in the video?
"It's my identity, it's what I feel, and I can't fight it."
"The problem is that I'm a male identified person, and as soon as I'm in a space that is all female, my identity gets erased."
Isn't identity internal and inherent? Why would Kass say that his identity depends on his surroundings???





Yes, in the womens dorm, the only people who can work in there are women, and usually not even just any woman, only the ones actually living in that dorm. Same for the mens dorm. Definitely, if he was living in the mens dorm, then by all means he has every right to work there, but hes not.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1376175.html
So hes trying to change a rule that has absolutely nothing to even do with being transgendered actually...to work in a dorm, you have to live in that dorm. But using the reason that hes transgendered, and feels that rule should not apply to him and discriminatory, is totally off base."I have no problem living with women," Kass, a sophomore from Cincinnati who plans to have a career in both music and advocacy, told the Journal. "But the problem comes when I’m in this space that is deemed all-female. And so naturally I’m assumed to be female. And so my identity becomes invisible."
If he does not feel comfortable in an all female space, and feels his identity is becoming invisible, then there is absolutely no reason that he cannot move to the transgendered dorms and apply for a job there. But he chooses to stay in a dorm hes not comfortable in, while applying for a job in another dorm that he knows he can not get a job in, and then calling it gender discrimination.
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I noticed that as well....this whole thing really doesnt sit right with me. If someone knows who they are and identifies as such, it doesnt matter who you are around, that is who youare point blank period. Way too often, people are in situations where they do not fit in or belong, while it makes being openly honest or even personally coming to terms with it incredibly difficult, but it does not erase who they are. Thats actually such an archaic idea, like back in the day thinking of "just stick her with some women, and she'll staighten out and forget about that whole Im a boy thing" Yes that was a form of therapy, and guess what? It didnt work....because you cant erase who you are! *grumble*
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I saw that quote in the article, and what I took it to mean something like that his identity is being not recognized. That by forcing him into an all female space they (the university or whoever) is ignoring his male identity. I can see what he is saying, but only if working in the female dorms is something reserved for women. By "all female" I assumed he meant "reserved specifically for females".
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Does anyone know if transgender students can live in the dorm of the gender they identify with? Or only in the gender neutral dorms and dorm of their original sex?
hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form





Meh. It's fucking college. Living arrangements are rarely ideal to begin with. Also, I believe RA's have to be Juniors or Seniors... so that's 2 years max that Kass will have to endure doing a job that he applied for. He could always do something else for work. Just sayin'.
Also, I worry that the guys in the male dorms might not lovingly embrace Kass with open arms as their RA... there is a bit of a disconnect between male students and someone with gender identity issues who spent a part of their life as a conflicted female. I'd be concerned with bullying & harassment more than I'd be concerned about an identity being acknowledged. In short, Kass should be careful what he wishes for.





No idea, but he didnt mention or seem to have issue with that at all, only that he cannot work in the male dorm. I would say instead of complaining about that, and blaming it on discrimination, he should first do what any other guy has to do to get a job in the dorm...live there.
I can totally understand though if the school voted against that, because it would open up a whole can of worms. Im not at all insensitive to it that he has not had the surgery yet, but if they allowed him to move into the male dorms, all it would take for a smart assed guy to say he wants to live with the females is that he identifies with being female and at that point, the schools arms are tied. Once they allow anyone to live wherever they want, they may as well make the dorms co-ed. I reckon to guess that is why they opened up a transgendered dorm.
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I don't disagree with you, and in the practical reality of the situation, you're right. Living situations in college a generally not the best, and Kass is probably almost out of there anyway. But on a bigger scale (and I don't mean this to sound like you are thinking small or anything, I'm just having a hard time thinking of another way of saying what I'm trying to say) I think that it's a shame someone's less-than-ideal college living situation would stem from them feeling their gender identity is being invalidated. In that same vein, my youngest sister lives on campus and loves it. She is having an amazing college experience. Not everyone can have that, just a fact of life, but again I think it's sad that someone should miss out on this because they are transgender. And I say this in a very broad sense, not necessarily just with this situation, especially since I don't know if this is even the case for Kass, and his complaint is about where he is working so other aspects of his college life could be totally fulfilling.
You are right. In a perfect world the school wouldn't tolerate it but the reality is they can only do so much. Although, I don't think it's fair to say "No, you can't do this because other people might not like it and bully you." I don't think this is what you are saying, but I guess my worry is that is where that logic would lead. It kind of reminds me blame-the-victim mentality we see with women and sexual assault (though I definitely don't think you were trying to imply this, either). If the individual has decided that the risk of bullying is worth it to them then who am I to tell them it's not? I've never had to defend my gender identity so I don't think I could ever make that call.
Kind of going with what Sophia was saying, maybe he wouldn't feel comfortable moving into the male dorm for fear of bullying and harassment? The idea of which I would imagine would be more daunting than trying to just work there. Maybe he doesn't want to fight what would probably be a much bigger and more controversial battle? It really isn't his job to take on that crusade, especially if he wouldn't be comfortable living there. I'm not saying you're wrong or that the University should just let him work wherever, rules be damned. I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to throw some different perspectives in here.
I think it would be a can of worms (which is maybe why he doesn't care to push for it) and I think people would understandably have the fear that a heterosexual cisgender man would try to abuse it. However I don't think it would be too hard to deter all but the most determined mentally unstable creepsters from trying. So, considering an average heterosexual cisgender college guy...
First, in American society (as well as many others) for a man to take on traits or behaviors normally associated with women is debasing and humiliating. We see this reflected all the time in our culture (think of those "man card" commercials, men telling other men not to be a "bitch" or a "pussy", to stop acting like a woman or a girl, or even just the fact the women can wear "men's" clothing with much less fear of ridicule than a man wearing "women's" clothing). Our average guy isn't going to want to degrade himself in this manner, especially to his peers. And then you have to consider the response he would get from the public at large, strangers he encounters at school, work, the grocery store, where ever. Not only would he be degrading himself, but he would have to deal with the nastiness transgender people often encounter in public spaces. It's enough to keep some transgender people in the closet, I doubt our hetero cis guy is going to want to deal with it.
Second, it would require quite a bit off effort. Even to try and pass as a transgender woman with an androgynous appearance or style of dress would take more effort than what our average guy is used to. And I don't mean in just appearance, I mean in behavior as well. The majority of college aged guys (especially the kind of guy that comes to mind when I think of who would try to pass as transgender to live in a woman's dorm) behave in a way that is markedly different than that of their women peers.
These two factors alone I feel would be pretty discouraging, especially if they could just go live with girls in the gender neutral dorms.
Additionally, even some kind of half-assed background check would reveal if a person was truly transgender or putting on a facade in most cases. Talking to classmates, teachers, coworkers, old dorm/suite/hall mates, parents if possible... Hell, even just looking at their Facebook would probably give away most guys who would think to try it as a funny prank.
Not to say that some really devoted stalker type wouldn't try, but even then I feel like doing some investigation would reveal them. And I suppose it would be possible for someone to slip through the cracks, no system is perfect and I don't think it's fair to put biased and marginalizing restrictions on people because there nasty people with entitlement issues fail to see women as people and behave accordingly. That's going to happen anyway (until much bigger problems are addressed), and to limit innocent people because of it also reminds me of the attitudes I see behind blaming-the-victim situations.
Anyway, the background checks would be a problem for someone who was just coming out and hadn't begun to officially transition in a public sense, and possibly those new to the campus. In these situations I think it would be reasonable to require they live in the gender neutral dorms for a period of time. Actually, requiring anyone transgender trying to live in the dorm of their identity to first live in the gender neutral dorm would probably help prevent creepy hetero cis psychos from making it to the female dorm. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it would be better than nothing.
And if there was an issue with funding or something for doing the background checks, I'm sure that any GSA or LGBT organizations on campus could help.
Also, I just want to say I think it's really awesome we can have a discussion like this without it turning nasty. Hopefully I didn't just jinx it...
ETA: I think the gender neutral dorm is a great, and I love that the University cares enough to provide something like that. However, I can see how from the perspective of a transgender person it would be insufficient. Like, imagine you are transgender, and all your life you have had to hide your identity or it has been questioned and not recognized. You finally get to college where you get a fresh start and hopefully in a more open-minded environment. You are super excited and want to have the whole college dorm roommate experience, with other girls so you can do girl things and finally be recognized as a woman. The gender neutral dorms are great and let you have that. But they are physically separate from the female dorms, existing as an "other" outside of what is recognized as the "female" space. This is naturally going to influence the way it and its residences are perceived by the rest of the college community. It might seem like a minor detail, or even nit picky, but gender is a social construct so these details matter. For a person who wants desperately to NOT be perceived as an "outsider" or "other", who simply wants to be a woman, it matters. I think it's easy for cisgender people to brush off, because that experience is so completely alien to us. And that is why it's important to be aware of our privilege as cisgender people and to pay attention to the voices and complaints of transgender people. Even if it seems stupid, and even if the rules shouldn't necessarily be changed (such as this case), because we really don't have the capacity to judge whether its stupid or unimportant or not.
Last edited by sierra.; 04-02-2012 at 11:06 AM.
hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form





The idea of coed dorms has been around many years. When I was in college I briefly attended a religious college with coed dorms. The top floor was women and the bottom 2 were men. I started having problems with my roommate and moved to the girl only dorm. The coed dorm was staffed by both female and male and the girl only was completely female. However the fact remains that this person has not gone through the whole procedure and is still female and should not be in the male dorm, anymore than we should be in male dorms, though I'm sure all of us look like women.
So yes I think this person is just causing trouble.





I really do totally get where youre coming from....I like how your train of thought worksThere are a couple of things I wanted to point out though...
Actually I wasnt coming from that angle, but it is a legitimate one...my angle more is that those who work in a dorm live there. Seeing how that is a job requirement, it just doesnt seem prudent to claim he didnt get the job because of discrimination, but because he did not fit the requiement that all who apply for the job, even guys, have to.
I will say, if that is the case, and he did not want to live in the male dorms/the prospect was daunting, then working there would be just as much so. The reason why that rule is even in place is because for one, you would be spending a lot of time at the dorm, and so its convenient to have someone actually living there to hold positions there. Also, it is a community thing, living there you are directly a part of the community of that dorm, and have a much better grasp of the job they need to do in their own dorm as opposed to someone who doesnt.. It makes total sense really to "hire from within", and it does not make sense that hed want to work in a place he doesnt want to live, considering that job would have him there so much hes practically living there anyway.The idea of which I would imagine would be more daunting than trying to just work there. Maybe he doesn't want to fight what would probably be a much bigger and more controversial battle? It really isn't his job to take on that crusade, especially if he wouldn't be comfortable living there. I'm not saying you're wrong or that the University should just let him work wherever, rules be damned. I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to throw some different perspectives in here.
Yup!I think it would be a can of worms (which is maybe why he doesn't care to push for it) and I think people would understandably have the fear that a heterosexual cisgender man would try to abuse it. However I don't think it would be too hard to deter all but the most determined mentally unstable creepsters from trying. So, considering an average heterosexual cisgender college guy...They'd have a field day with that one eh?!
Acutally I would have to say that behavior wouldnt be so much an argument. I am quite sure of it that gay men live in the male dorms, and gay women live in the female dorms. I would be totally shocked if, considering that school is open enough to have transgendered dorms, that the gay population has to stick to any preconceived notion of how someone their sex is supposed to behave. From what Ive seen of the video, Kaeden is a lot more masculine than some guys Ive known (gay and straight alike lol) and a lot more feminine than some women I know. And if they are welcoming to the transgendered community, then its fairly safe to assume that the gay community, and the myraid of behaviors and personality traits that come with it, that are not confined to, or defined by their sex are not a big deal as well.First, in American society (as well as many others) for a man to take on traits or behaviors normally associated with women is debasing and humiliating. We see this reflected all the time in our culture (think of those "man card" commercials, men telling other men not to be a "bitch" or a "pussy", to stop acting like a woman or a girl, or even just the fact the women can wear "men's" clothing with much less fear of ridicule than a man wearing "women's" clothing). Our average guy isn't going to want to degrade himself in this manner, especially to his peers. And then you have to consider the response he would get from the public at large, strangers he encounters at school, work, the grocery store, where ever. Not only would he be degrading himself, but he would have to deal with the nastiness transgender people often encounter in public spaces. It's enough to keep some transgender people in the closet, I doubt our hetero cis guy is going to want to deal with it.
Second, it would require quite a bit off effort. Even to try and pass as a transgender woman with an androgynous appearance or style of dress would take more effort than what our average guy is used to. And I don't mean in just appearance, I mean in behavior as well. The majority of college aged guys (especially the kind of guy that comes to mind when I think of who would try to pass as transgender to live in a woman's dorm) behave in a way that is markedly different than that of their women peers.
These two factors alone I feel would be pretty discouraging, especially if they could just go live with girls in the gender neutral dorms.
Additionally, even some kind of half-assed background check would reveal if a person was truly transgender or putting on a facade in most cases. Talking to classmates, teachers, coworkers, old dorm/suite/hall mates, parents if possible... Hell, even just looking at their Facebook would probably give away most guys who would think to try it as a funny prank.
Not to say that some really devoted stalker type wouldn't try, but even then I feel like doing some investigation would reveal them. And I suppose it would be possible for someone to slip through the cracks, no system is perfect and I don't think it's fair to put biased and marginalizing restrictions on people because there nasty people with entitlement issues fail to see women as people and behave accordingly. That's going to happen anyway (until much bigger problems are addressed), and to limit innocent people because of it also reminds me of the attitudes I see behind blaming-the-victim situations.
Yup, I do totally agree with this.Anyway, the background checks would be a problem for someone who was just coming out and hadn't begun to officially transition in a public sense, and possibly those new to the campus. In these situations I think it would be reasonable to require they live in the gender neutral dorms for a period of time. Actually, requiring anyone transgender trying to live in the dorm of their identity to first live in the gender neutral dorm would probably help prevent creepy hetero cis psychos from making it to the female dorm. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it would be better than nothing.
And if there was an issue with funding or something for doing the background checks, I'm sure that any GSA or LGBT organizations on campus could help.
No worries, if you do jinx it, then you owe us all a coke and we're all even againAlso, I just want to say I think it's really awesome we can have a discussion like this without it turning nasty. Hopefully I didn't just jinx it...![]()
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I think a lot of people have this preconceived notion that colleges are bastions of progress and open-minded enlightenment where students can be exposed to new perspectives and come into-their-own, experience new things, and develop a greater understanding of the human condition. Lot's of people think that colleges are co-ed free for alls where parties, sex, drugs, and craziness reign supreme. A few folks (myself included) believed that college was THE place for higher learning, where type-A overachievers would sit over coffee with worldly professors discussing high-brow topics and creating a plan for a new world order.
The truth of the matter is that college is nothing like the movies... and there are several flavors of college stereotypes to choose from, believe me. College is still an institution that abides by specific rules and adheres to certain constructs. Generally speaking, colleges stick to the status quo and social "norms". For the most part, I've discovered that college is more akin to an advanced version of high school. It is not a fresh start, it is not incredibly different, and for lack of a better word college is fairly unremarkable from society-at-large.
Apart from the witness protection program... a fresh start is hard to come by.
The college, as a business/institution doesn't owe a fresh start to students. It owes them a level of safety. It owes them adequate facilities and qualified instruction. It owes them a reasonable education that would qualify them to pursue a certain path.
There are so many other options Kass has:
He can move off-campus.
He can work on campus in another capacity.
He can live in the gender-neutral dorms and be an RA there.
He can work off campus.
He can suck it up for two years and start his gender identified life outside of college.
He can transfer to a school where they have a different RA policy.
The list goes on...
I don't understand why his prerogative is so narrowly defined. Nor do I necessarily understand his initial argument (the whole "identity is erased" thing is bizarre and unreasonable). I hope Kass learns how to pick his battles better.





Very true. The one school I briefly attended was pretty conservative with a huge majority of the women only there to meet husbands (a guy I dated in college complaied about every girl he met pursuing her MRS degree). Others were there because the parents sent them to college and of course others for career pursuing. Granted this being a religious school means far more conservative students (and professors)but the goal of any college is to make money.





I feel like I'm missing some vital information here! I can't figure out from the articles/clips whether he is offered a JOB or a RESIDENCE. Both seem to be discussed. There is mention of a trans dorm, male dorms, and female dorms, but no co-ed dorms, and even the university website doesn't seem to have info on whether co-ed dorms exist. One would have to assume that they do, because most colleges have co-ed as well as single sex (and I doubt that a college with trans-specific dorms wouldn't have a co-ed).
What the website DOES say is that students are required to live on-campus for the first two years, so living off-campus may not be an option for him. However, as the information given doesn't include what year he is in (does it??), we have no way of knowing if this is the case.
We also don't know much about the RA situation there - it's not required to be one, as far as I can tell. I'm guessing (educated guess!) that you simply apply to be an RA, and get assigned a place to work.
So, seeing as I don't have the information that I need to have a really informed opinion, I'm going to base my thoughts on what information I have, and make some assumptions...
I'm going to agree with you girls that this is a fuss about nothing. He is not being forced to LIVE (as far as I can tell) in an all female dorm, unless he decides (of his own volition) to work there. He is not being forced to apply for a job as an RA. "Apply" is also a key word - he is not being denied something all other students have - it is perfectly possible to apply for a job and not get anything! He has been offered an open position, and can take it or leave it. If he does not feel that he is suitable for the job, then he can NOT TAKE IT! its like applying for an apartment and being told "the one you applied for is taken, but do you want this other one?". He is being given an option, not an edict.
The one thing that I could see as an issue is that I am assuming that born males would not be offered this position in an all-female dorm, and that it is possible to take offence, as he wishes to be treated like a born-male. But that isn't about him not getting a job in an all-male dorm, that is about him being treated as female when being identified as male. Except that the university is damned either way on that argument. If you do not allow someone who identifies as male to live in a female dorm, then you are open to criticism for making someone live in an environment that is possibly rife with bullying and transphobia (I know a bunch of the guys I went to uni with were raging trans-phobes, and would have been a real danger to a trans man living there). But if you say "ok, trans people can only live in trans and co-ed dorms" then there will be someone else up in arms that that is discrimination!!
I'm with Sophia - the kid needs to learn to pick his battles! Fight if you are DENIED a job, work, etc for your gender, not if you are offered one!
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If you go to the page the video is with the article the video is shown there.
I feel this is abuse of the term " gender discrimination". The school was more than willing to provide the gender neutral dorm setting but that wasn't good enough. And the " my identity disappears" and necessary to my "psychological health"seems to be a put unnecessary pressure on the college.










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You just (you in general)need to read her other posts to see why she's so bitter. She told a girl to come here illegally because only white guys come here legally. In another thread she called me a racist. That's why it's best to ignore her.
Anyway, what bothers me is that if someone isn't 100% in favor of something they are called names like racist, etc. I have no issues with transgendered, but when someone breaks a rule then yes I have a problem. I had a problem in the other thread with the transgendered beauty contestant because she lied and I have a problem with this case because they have transgendered dorms and also this students hasn't even gone through the procedure yet.
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