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Thread: seriously zimmerman?

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    There is nothing that anyone can say on Stripperweb that will change the fact the kid is dead now. And nothing anyone can say that will magically reveal the guilt or innocence of zimmerman.
    ^^
    This.....and there probably is nothing anyone can say to change the opinion of those who have already come to a conclusion based on conflicting reports from the media and comments from those closer to the case.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider View Post

    Ok to follow and then get out? Do we know if he followed Martin in his car and then got out or was parked near the entrance when he observed Martin and then got out to observe as Martin was leaving his sight? Very little difference with the end result..... yet assuming he followed while in his car is certainly more inflamatory and supportive of the ''stalking from safety'' theory. To my knowledge there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything other than observe from a distance as indicated by his comment to 911 that he lost sight of him. There is not any evidence to indicate that Zimmerman ''approached'' Martin. 911 transcript indicates he did not have sight of Martin and was headed back to his car which was parked by the mail boxes and for police to call him when they got there and he would advise where he was in relation to the entrance and mailboxes. An assumption is being made that after hanging up the phone, he changed his mind.... found Martin and approached him?? There is no basis on which to come to this conclusion. Comment from Martin's girlfriend actually indicates differently with her saying the first she heard of actual face to face contact between the two was Martin asking ''why were you following me?" To me...as Martin does not seem to be answering a question from Zimmerman, it appears he is the one that actually approached Zimmerman.... initiated actual contact between the two and confronted Zimmerman.
    911 transcripts do NOT indicate Zimmerman was heading back to his truck. The dispatcher asked him if he wanted the police to meet him by the mailbox and instead, Zimmerman told the dispatcher to have the police call him so he could tell them where he is. That indicates he was not waiting for the police. Here is the transcript again:

    http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html
    Last edited by eagle2; 04-26-2012 at 10:06 PM.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Obama is president, though he doesn't seem to work very hard at it, but he does find time to weigh in on any issue where he can play race, class, or gender cards.
    In case you haven't forgotten, although I'm sure you haven't, politics is off limits in this forum. That would include your obnoxious comments about the President.

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    If someone wearing a hoodie is walking through a crime-prone neighborhood where he is not known, he is going to get the attention of any neighborhood watchmen.
    You're the one playing the race card, with your nonsense about hoodies. The neighborhood watchmen is NOT supposed to follow anyone, even someone wearing a hoodie.

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  5. #129
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raider View Post
    As was pointed out to me....the forensic analysts stated it was only with 48% certainty that it was Zimmerman's voice and they needed 90% to say with any certainty that it was Zimmerman. This does not rule out the slight possiblity that it was him. Unfortunately, due to the tragic event...it is not possible to compare the young man's voice to prove it was his. There is nothing to say that it was Martin that was screaming other than his mom who could hardly be considered not to be biased. There is no way to know if any test would have also resulted in a similar ''48% match'' to Martin due to the conditions and circumstances the recording was made under. Yes, it is very easy to say that if not A...then it must be B yet it is not possible to reach the conclusion that a test of Martin would result in the 90% needed to verify with any certainty that it was him. A test of Martin might have revealed the same 48% match thus resulting in an inability to determine with any certainty that it was one individual or the other.
    The forensic experts used their own knowledge of voice forensics to say it was obviously a teenager's voice on the tape. Then the analysis was conducted, it revealed a figure that is substantially less than what one would need to conclude that the voice was Zimmerman's. The analysis was conducted by extremely advanced voice/audio technology. For you to assert that there is a slight chance that it was Zimmerman's voice means you're suggesting that the technology used to determine this was broken. The forensic expert (Owens) stated, "As a result of that [48 percent match], you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman." There were two people involved. One was screaming. The screamer was not Zimmerman. Thus, the screamer was Trayvon. Zimmerman also stated, in his claim of self-defense, that it was his voice screaming. This was before the forensic evidence surfaced, which proved that Zimmerman was lying.

    Ok to follow and then get out? Do we know if he followed Martin in his car and then got out or was parked near the entrance when he observed Martin and then got out to observe as Martin was leaving his sight? Very little difference with the end result..... yet assuming he followed while in his car is certainly more inflamatory and supportive of the ''stalking from safety'' theory. To my knowledge there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything other than observe from a distance as indicated by his comment to 911 that he lost sight of him. There is not any evidence to indicate that Zimmerman ''approached'' Martin. 911 transcript indicates he did not have sight of Martin and was headed back to his car which was parked by the mail boxes and for police to call him when they got there and he would advise where he was in relation to the entrance and mailboxes. An assumption is being made that after hanging up the phone, he changed his mind.... found Martin and approached him?? There is no basis on which to come to this conclusion. Comment from Martin's girlfriend actually indicates differently with her saying the first she heard of actual face to face contact between the two was Martin asking ''why were you following me?" To me...as Martin does not seem to be answering a question from Zimmerman, it appears he is the one that actually approached Zimmerman.... initiated actual contact between the two and confronted Zimmerman.
    No. In the 911 audio, you can very clearly and legibly hear the dispatcher ask Zimmerman, "are you following him?" to which Zimmerman responds, "yes." Zimmerman admitted to getting out of his car and following Trayvon, who he claimed was running away. So for Zimmerman's story to check out, he would have had to make the conscious decision to get out of his car and follow Trayvon, who started running away. Then, for Zimmerman's story to check-out, he would have had to have a sudden change of heart to turn his back on Trayvon and head to his car and Trayvon, who, mind you, was running away, would have had to have the sudden urge to attack Zimmerman instead of run away from him like he was initially doing.

    I heard Zimmerman's defense also try to assert that he got out of his car to look for a street sign to meet up with police. Here are some problems I have with that claim: 1. Why would he have to go look at a street sign in an area that he patrols all the time? One would assume he would know the street he is one in an area that he patrols frequently and is familiar with. 2. It is documented that he admitted to following Trayvon. 3. If Zimmerman were returning to his car, it is hard to make sense of why the "scuffle" happened so far away from his car. His car was parked in the street; the scuffle took place in between two sets of townhouses, with one of the rows of townhouses separating the two men from Zimmerman's car; imagine it like this: you're looking at it from bird's-eye view. Zimmerman's car is parked on the street. To the right is one set of townhouses. To the right of those townhouses is another set of townhouses. The scuffle took place in between the townhouses. From the area that their scuffle took place, Zimmerman's car cannot even be seen. 4. If he were getting out of his car to look for the correct address, it is not plausible for the scuffle to have occured BEHIND the houses that Zimmerman alleges he was searching for the addresses for.

    Eagle provided you with transcripts so I hope you take a look and then tell us your opinion.
    Last edited by Nina_; 04-26-2012 at 09:59 PM.

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  7. #130
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    No one with any knowledge of the case has said Zimmerman is "obviously guilty". Feel free to provide links naming people without a personal agenda who have said that.
    I think some people on this thread acknowledge that this is clearly murder. I am not going to go out of my way to provide links naming random people who have said that. There have been thousands.

    Obama is president, though he doesn't seem to work very hard at it, but he does find time to weigh in on any issue where he can play race, class, or gender cards.
    Presidents should be aware of pressing societal issues. Obama does not play the race card. You are only saying he plays the race card because the fact that he is [half] black gives you the idea that you can claim he pulls the race card. He does not. He remains fair on racial issues. As far as playing the class or gender card, it has nothing to do with the case. Obama himself has nothing to do with the case, yet you've made him the center of your discussion. I guess to you the fact that, starting at his first year in office, he has been the most executively active president since Roosevelt has nothing to do with whether or not he's a hard-working president. If you want to keep bitching about Obama when he has no significance in the case, perhaps you should start your own thread about your hatred for him.

    If someone wearing a hoodie is walking through a crime-prone neighborhood where he is not known, he is going to get the attention of any neighborhood watchmen. It's not his fault for wearing a hoodie, but if he doubled back and confronted and assaulted Zimmerman, he bears responsibility for that.
    Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to watch. Not follow and pursue with gun, first off. Secondly, a hoodie does NOT justify being followed, nor does it mean the person wearing the hoodie is dangerous, which has been directly exemplified by the fact that Trayvon was unarmed and trying to simply go home.

    As far as him doubling back and confronting Zimmerman, I fail to see why you make it sound as if such a happening is plausible. Given the fact that the "scuffle" happened in-between the two townhouse complexes, 150 feet away from Zimmerman's car (parked on the street on the OTHER SIDE of the complex of townhouses that Zimmermand and Trayvon's scuffle took place), it is not very likely that Trayvon sneaked over to Zimmerman and "sucker-punched" him from behind. To make this claim true, Zimmerman would also have to be telling the truth when he says that the reason he was out of his car was to find the address and tell police. Well, if he was looking for the address, how on earth did the scuffle end up happening behind the townhouses? Addresses are posted on the front of houses, not the back. Zimmerman also told the dispatcher to have police call him when they arrive so they could meet up instead of giving a specific location of where he would be, indicating that he planned to keep moving and was unsure where he'd be when police arrived.

    And finally, I guess Dershowitz doesn't know what he's talking about either. There are certainly plenty of questions about whether he broke any laws. He was licensed for the gun, he called the police, reportedly returned to his car, reportedly was confronted by Martin, reportedly was assaulted by Martin, suffered bruises to his head and face, fired his gun reportedly in self defense, waited for the police to arrive and reportedly cooperated with them, If these aspects are true, where is the crime?
    If he returned to his car, how did Martin confront him from behind the townhome complex, 150 feet away? His gun was not fired in self-defense if the victim was repeatedly screaming and begging for help. The forensic analysis that you opt not to regard is one piece of evidence that Trayvon was the one screaming. Another piece of evidence is the fact that the continous cries for help are cut off simultaneously with the gunshot. I also find it interesting how Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon was pounding his head into the sidewalk right before he shot him (and also pinning him down, as Zimmerman has asserted. It's interesting that Trayvon was allegedly pinning Zimmerman down and pounding his head at the same time). It can be assumed that when Trayvon was shot in the chest, his body crumpled up and he fell to wherever he was. If he was on the sidewalk "assaulting" Zimmerman, I find it odd that Trayvon was found on the grass, face-down, with his arms folded under him. There is no self-defense claim here that is plausible.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    911 transcripts do NOT indicate Zimmerman was heading back to his truck. The dispatcher asked him if he wanted the police to meet him by the mailbox and instead, Zimmerman told the dispatcher to have the police call him so he could tell them where he is. That indicates he was not waiting for the police. Here is the transcript again:
    http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html
    Yep....I got it the first time. Some people interpret that it means he has decided is going to search ...follow .....approach...and assault after asking for police to meet him at his car. As indicated in the transcript there is obviously an issue as to where his car is parked and some people interpret 'have them call me when they get here and I will tell them where I am at '' to mean that Zimmerman doesn't know the exact address his car is at and wants the police to call so he can advise them where he is at in relation to the mailbox or that he didn't know if he could get there by the time the police arrived.
    Last edited by Raider; 04-27-2012 at 07:31 AM.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    In case you haven't forgotten, although I'm sure you haven't, politics is off limits in this forum. That would include your obnoxious comments about the President.



    You're the one playing the race card, with your nonsense about hoodies. The neighborhood watchmen is NOT supposed to follow anyone, even someone wearing a hoodie.
    1. No I haven't forgotten and he's only being mentioned because he injected himself into a situation for personal benefit that no respectable President would.

    2. It is the job of a neighborhood watchman to observe, track, and report suspicious characters whether they are wearing a hoodie or not. And wearing a hoodie at night (thereby concealing your identity) in a neighborhood that's recently had a lot of break-ins only increases the level of suspicion a person draws to himself, regardless of his race.

    3. And regarding the transcript, all it shows is he was told they didn't need him to follow Martin any longer. That's not quite the same as being told not to do it. And what crime does that constitute anyhow?
    Last edited by bem401; 04-27-2012 at 06:16 AM.
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina_ View Post
    I think some people on this thread acknowledge that this is clearly murder. I am not going to go out of my way to provide links naming random people who have said that. There have been thousands.
    So you can't name anyone considered an expert in matters of this sort to support your contention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina_ View Post
    Presidents should be aware of pressing societal issues. Obama does not play the race card. You are only saying he plays the race card because the fact that he is [half] black gives you the idea that you can claim he pulls the race card. He does not. He remains fair on racial issues. As far as playing the class or gender card, it has nothing to do with the case. Obama himself has nothing to do with the case, yet you've made him the center of your discussion. I guess to you the fact that, starting at his first year in office, he has been the most executively active president since Roosevelt has nothing to do with whether or not he's a hard-working president. If you want to keep bitching about Obama when he has no significance in the case, perhaps you should start your own thread about your hatred for him.
    Funny, he comments here but remains silent regarding the white guy in Mobile AL attacked and hospitalized in critical condition by a group of blacks chanting "Justice for Trayvon" as they did it. He also fails to comment on the NBP bounty on Zimmerman's head and hasn't commented on the thousand or so other young black men murdered nationwide since Martin died. But he's not playing a race card by weighing in on this one? And "executively active"? Don't you mean "unconstitutionally active"?

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/lib...artin-tragedy/

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina_ View Post
    Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to watch. Not follow and pursue with gun, first off. Secondly, a hoodie does NOT justify being followed, nor does it mean the person wearing the hoodie is dangerous, which has been directly exemplified by the fact that Trayvon was unarmed and trying to simply go home.

    As far as him doubling back and confronting Zimmerman, I fail to see why you make it sound as if such a happening is plausible. Given the fact that the "scuffle" happened in-between the two townhouse complexes, 150 feet away from Zimmerman's car (parked on the street on the OTHER SIDE of the complex of townhouses that Zimmermand and Trayvon's scuffle took place), it is not very likely that Trayvon sneaked over to Zimmerman and "sucker-punched" him from behind. To make this claim true, Zimmerman would also have to be telling the truth when he says that the reason he was out of his car was to find the address and tell police. Well, if he was looking for the address, how on earth did the scuffle end up happening behind the townhouses? Addresses are posted on the front of houses, not the back. Zimmerman also told the dispatcher to have police call him when they arrive so they could meet up instead of giving a specific location of where he would be, indicating that he planned to keep moving and was unsure where he'd be when police arrived.


    If he returned to his car, how did Martin confront him from behind the townhome complex, 150 feet away? His gun was not fired in self-defense if the victim was repeatedly screaming and begging for help. The forensic analysis that you opt not to regard is one piece of evidence that Trayvon was the one screaming. Another piece of evidence is the fact that the continous cries for help are cut off simultaneously with the gunshot. I also find it interesting how Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon was pounding his head into the sidewalk right before he shot him (and also pinning him down, as Zimmerman has asserted. It's interesting that Trayvon was allegedly pinning Zimmerman down and pounding his head at the same time). It can be assumed that when Trayvon was shot in the chest, his body crumpled up and he fell to wherever he was. If he was on the sidewalk "assaulting" Zimmerman, I find it odd that Trayvon was found on the grass, face-down, with his arms folded under him. There is no self-defense claim here that is plausible.
    Who says neighborhood watchmen aren't supposed to keep suspicious characters under surveillance? I have confronted characters in my neighborhood i deemed suspicious. I don't recall whether they wore hoodies or what their race was, but I found them suspicious and approached them.You obviously think you know what Zimmerman was thinking, what Martin was thinking, who confronted whom, who assaulted whom first, how Martin got shot, and how he fell.

    If Zimmerman was really interested in confronting and shooting martin, why did he first call the cops and why did he allow Martin to get close enough to attack him?
    Last edited by bem401; 04-27-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Once again, my point on the tape is that unfortunately due to the tragedy, there is not any way to determine if the voice on the tape was a better match to Martin than it was to Zimmerman. Could not the conditions the tape was made under (distance, muffled screams ...anything) also have resulted in a mere 48% match to Martin thus making impossible to say with REASONABLE SCIENTIFIC CERTAINTY that you could link the screams to EITHER one of the two? Merely coming up with a 48% match to Zimmerman does NOT INDICATE HE WAS LYING. It indicates that the analyst could not support his claim as it would require a 90% match in order to verify that it was indeed Zimmerman. My indicating the POSSIBLITY that there is a slight chance it was Zimmerman does not mean I think the technology was broken...it means I believe the findings that indicate there is a 48% match. The 90% needed to conclude it was Zimmerman does not rule out that it was him if that level isn't reached. It means they can't verify his claim and confirm it was him as the 90% level wasn't met. There is a difference.


    Yes, Zimmerman got out of his car and started following him as indicated on the transcript. Yes, he indicated Martin was running and yet said ''ok'' when told they didn't need for him to follow (see transcript) . At that point the conversation turns to meeting the officers at the mailbox as he also indicates he no longer knows where Martin is at (see transcript). THIS indicates his intention to meet the officers there after he stopped following. Why so easy to assume that Zimmerman decided to change his mind about meeting the officers by the mailbox and search for Martin yet so difficult to assume that Martin stopped running and approached Zimmerman once he realized that he wasn't being followed anymore?? Even the comment from Martin's girlfriend indicates that Martin initiated contact by her saying the first she heard of an exchange between the two was Martin saying ''why were you following me?" Note that the first comment heard from Martin was not a reply to a confrontation initiated by Zimmerman as in answering a question from Zimmerman or stating....''I'm not doing anything...I am staying here on vacation.''

    The location of the confrontation does not prove anything ...one way or another. Yes, Zimmerman followed because he saw Martin looking at all the houses (see transcript) ....if that is as far as he got when he stopped and started to return to his car then it is entirely reasonable to assume that is where the confrontion took place. Dont think anyone said Zimmerman got out of his car merely to look for an address..it was obvious he got out to follow. Yet there is a tendency to change follow into approach and confront and there is no evidence that this was done
    by Zimmerman. Martin runs....Zimmerman follows to between the townhouses...told by dispatch they don't need for him to follow so he says ''ok'' .,...stops following... and proceeds to talk about meeting the officers at the mailbox. Zimmerman is still between the townhouses when Martin approaches him. Certainly a reasonable scenario and this does not make it difficult to make sense as to why the incident took place where it did. Don't think it was claimed anywhere that Zimmerman actually had the time and had indeed returned to his car. Once again...two scenarios. Did Zimmerman change his mind after telling police to meet him at the mailbox and search for Martin....or did Martin change his mind about what to do and decide to approach Zimmerman as he walked away back to his car?? One scenario is as logical as the other yet ''return to car'' scenario is at least supported by the transcript. Zimmerman telling the officers to call when they got there does not indicate with any certainty that he changed his mind about looking for Martin as it could merely be that he didn't know if he would have time to reach his car or the mailbox before the officers arrived. Thus...have them call when they get here and I will tell them where I am at.

    How could Martin be pounding his head into the sidewalk and pinning him down at the same time??? Could he not be straddling him...grabbing Zimmerman by the collar and slamming him up and down resulting in the injuries to Zimmerman. Is there a different reasonable explanation to the injuries Zimmermna received treatment for at the scene?? Is that not what was described by a witness?? Martin on top of Zimmerman? It is questioned how Martin could end up on the grass with the incident taking place on the sidewalk and why face down? No clue...not an expert but doesn't seem unreasonable to think he stumbled back and spun as he fell after being shot. Hardly think that the body on the grass and being face down eliminates the claim of self defense..

    My only position in all of this is to point out there are reasonable scenarios on both sides of the incident. One should not assume one scenario is accurate using some of the facts and ignore other possibilities or scenarios that are also supported by some of the facts. I read something just the other day ......Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. ....but they are not entitled to their own selective set of facts to form said opinion.
    Last edited by Raider; 04-27-2012 at 07:57 AM.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post

    2. It is the job of a neighborhood watchman to observe, track, and report suspicious characters whether they are wearing a hoodie or not. And wearing a hoodie at night (thereby concealing your identity) in a neighborhood that's recently had a lot of break-ins only increases the level of suspicion a person draws to himself, regardless of his race.
    According to the guidelines for the Sanford Neighborhood Watch Program, the neighborhood watchman is not supposed to do anything more than report suspicious activity. He is not to get physically involved. That includes tracking someone who looks suspicious.

    http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...amHandbook.pdf

    What you will
    not do is get physically involved with
    any activity
    you report or
    apprehension of any suspicious
    persons. This is the job of the law
    enforcement agency.


    Remember always that your
    responsibility is to report crime. Do
    not take any risks to prevent a
    crime
    or try to make an arrest.
    The responsibility for
    apprehending criminals belongs
    to the police department.

    According to Trayvon Martin's girlfriend, he was not wearing a hoodie over his head when Zimmerman started following him, so you're wrong about that too.
    Last edited by eagle2; 04-27-2012 at 10:29 PM.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    According to the guidelines for the Sanford Neighborhood Watch Program, the neighborhood watchman is not supposed to do anything more than report suspicious activity. He is not to get physically involved. That includes tracking someone who looks suspicious.

    http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...amHandbook.pdf

    What you will
    not do is get physically involved with
    any activity
    you report or
    apprehension of any suspicious
    persons. This is the job of the law
    enforcement agency.


    Remember always that your
    responsibility is to report crime. Do
    not take any risks to prevent a
    crime
    or try to make an arrest.
    The responsibility for
    apprehending criminals belongs
    to the police department.
    I used the word "track" to mean observe long enough to become suspicious of, not to track with the intent of arresting. Zimmerman's side of the story is that he was confronted and assaulted by Martin, not vice-versa. His bruises and the fact he called the police seem to support his version.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    According to Trayvon Martin's girlfriend, he was not wearing a hoodie over his head when Zimmerman started following him, so you're wrong about that too.
    Thank you very much for posting a perfect example of hearsay. The girlfriend was most likely 200 miles away in Martin's hometown of Miami, not an eyewitness. And why would they be discussing whether or not he was wearing his hoodie unless they understood it might make him look suspicious?
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    From his girlfriend:

    http://gawker.com/5894832/trayvon-ma...re-he-was-shot

    "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man...I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."

    According to her statement, he put his hoodie on after her saw Zimmerman watching him, which would mean he didn't have it on when Zimmerman first started watching him.

    Why would she make that up, when at the time she said this, his hoodie wasn't even an issue?
    Last edited by eagle2; 04-28-2012 at 10:08 AM.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    From his girlfriend:

    http://gawker.com/5894832/trayvon-ma...re-he-was-shot

    "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man...I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."

    According to her statement, he put his hoodie on after her saw Zimmerman watching him, which would mean he didn't have it on when Zimmerman first started watching him.

    Why would she make that up, when at the time she said this, his hoodie wasn't even an issue?
    SMH, you're making my case for me.

    First, now you're effecxtively saying his girlfriend admits Zimmerman didn't start following Martin strictly because he had on a hoodie.

    Second, he put on the hoodie to conceal his identity and elude a watchman.. If a hoodie is strictly a fashion statement, as others here would have us believe, why would he do that?

    Third, it's still nothing but hearsay anyhow, She is (perhaps truthfully, perhaps not) stating what someone else told her.
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Its incredible to me how some of the people in this thread insist on grabbing media reports and hearsay that support their cause and refusing to consider that they not may be facts. If it was cold and raining, why wasn't he wearing his hood. Why do you think that if the hood was up or down that it really has anything to do with Zimmermans guilt or if he should be charged

    The issue that counts the most is what happened from the time Zimmerman reported that Treyvon ran away and was out of Zimmermans sight, until the trigger was pulled. If you believe that Zimmerman ran the kid down and started the physical struggle than he deserves to be charged. If Trevyon circled around him or ambushed him and started the physical struggle then under Florida law if Zimmerman feared for his life he had the right to shoot him. I linked the law earlier in the thread.

    I linked another audio assesment that Zimmerman said cold, not coon. Pay 10 other audio guys and you may get 10 other words. The operator that said he didn't need to follow Trevyon was making a suggestion, not giving him a legal command.

    Has anyone read this story about the events that led up to that night? http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83O18H20120425

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    SMH, you're making my case for me.

    First, now you're effecxtively saying his girlfriend admits Zimmerman didn't start following Martin strictly because he had on a hoodie.

    Second, he put on the hoodie to conceal his identity and elude a watchman.. If a hoodie is strictly a fashion statement, as others here would have us believe, why would he do that?

    Third, it's still nothing but hearsay anyhow, She is (perhaps truthfully, perhaps not) stating what someone else told her.
    SMH, Zimmerman started following Trayvon Martin before he put his hoodie on.

    All you're doing is repeating racist nonsense. You're trying to justify the shooting of an innocent African-American teenager. As much as you hate this, African American teenage boys have the right to walk through gated communities without being harassed by some neighborhood watchman playing policeman. When African Americans are outraged that an innocent African-American teenager was killed and his killer was released without being charged, and exercise their First Amendment rights to protest what happened, you repeat the racist nonsense that by protesting, they're "playing the race card".

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    SMH, Zimmerman started following Trayvon Martin before he put his hoodie on.
    Then what was the point of the "Million Hoodie March" and is that not 'playing the race card? I'd be more than happy to remove hoodies from the entire debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    All you're doing is repeating racist nonsense. You're trying to justify the shooting of an innocent African-American teenager. As much as you hate this, African American teenage boys have the right to walk through gated communities without being harassed by some neighborhood watchman playing policeman. When African Americans are outraged that an innocent African-American teenager was killed and his killer was released without being charged, and exercise their First Amendment rights to protest what happened, you repeat the racist nonsense that by protesting, they're "playing the race card".
    There you go again, typical leftist strategy. Name-calling and race-card playing when you have little or no case to make. In the first place, I'd be willing to bet you I have dozens more African-American friends than do you. I'd estimate 100 or more on FB but this isn't about you and me and I'm not attacking African-Americans. What happened here was a tragedy but it is just plain stupid to declare Martin blameless in this and Zimmerman guilty when we don't have all the facts and the facts we do have seem to agree with Zimmerman.

    Are you actually trying make the case that pointing out when the race card is being played is in fact racist nonsense? LMAO. I didn't accuse his family, friends, or the general public for that matter of "playing the race card", but when Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, the New Black Panthers, and the MSM seem to go out of their way to get African-Americans riled up over a case that appears to have very little to do with race other than the killer wasn't also black, that's "playing the race card".

    I'd be happy to remove race from the whole discussion. A neighborhood watchman spotted an unfamiliar, suspicious-looking young man in his neighborhood, the young man tried to elude him, the watchman called 911, somehow or other a confrontation ensued, the watchman got injured, the suspect got shot and he died. Actually, I haven't deviated from those facts when discussing this case so where is the "racist nonsense"?
    Last edited by bem401; 04-28-2012 at 09:19 PM.
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Then what was the point of the "Million Hoodie March" and is that not 'playing the race card? I'd be more than happy to remove hoodies from the entire debate.



    There you go again, typical leftist strategy. Name-calling and race-card playing when you have little or no case to make. In the first place, I'd be willing to bet you I have dozens more African-American friends than do you. I'd estimate 100 or more on FB but this isn't about you and me and I'm not attacking African-Americans. What happened here was a tragedy but it is just plain stupid to declare Martin blameless in this and Zimmerman guilty when we don't have all the facts and the facts we do have seem to agree with Zimmerman.

    Are you actually trying make the case that pointing out when the race card is being played is in fact racist nonsense? LMAO. I didn't accuse his family, friends, or the general public for that matter of "playing the race card", but when Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, the New Black Panthers, and the MSM seem to go out of their way to get African-Americans riled up over a case that appears to have very little to do with race other than the killer wasn't also black, that's "playing the race card".

    I'd be happy to remove race from the whole discussion. A neighborhood watchman spotted an unfamiliar, suspicious-looking young man in his neighborhood, the young man tried to elude him, the watchman called 911, somehow or other a confrontation ensued, the watchman got injured, the suspect got shot and he died. Actually, I haven't deviated from those facts when discussing this case so where is the "racist nonsense"?
    ZIMMERMAN was the one with the power (the gun). HE was the one who decided to watch Martin. HE knew the situation could result in a life being lost due to gunfire (HIS gunfire). HE knew the entire conflict could have been avoided if he had just put aside his ego and let the fucking cops do their jobs. There is NO race card being played here. A teenage boy is dead because of Zimmerman. Regardless of the details, he let it happen and has to take responsibility for it SOMEHOW, and that means making amends, whether by prison time, having his license to own a firearm permanently taken away, or something...

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Accepting friend requests on FB doesn't make someone your friend. Lol

    What was the determining factor for Zimmerman to consider Martin suspicious? Neighborhood crimes had been committed by black youths. That's it. Just his race. How can you term a kid walking back from a 7-11 as suspicious? He spotted Zimmerman and was concerned enough to mention it to his girlfriend he was being followed. You continue to refer to him as the suspect when in fact he was a victim.

    Zimmerman had zero authority to determine why he (Martin) was there or who he was. He was only a citizen. An armed citizen. Armed with a handgun and the knowledge of Florida's intentionally vague Castle law. An armed citizen tired of "those hoods" always getting away. So he pursued. The subsequent events will have to be determined by a jury.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    ZIMMERMAN was the one with the power (the gun). HE was the one who decided to watch Martin. HE knew the situation could result in a life being lost due to gunfire (HIS gunfire). HE knew the entire conflict could have been avoided if he had just put aside his ego and let the fucking cops do their jobs.
    By your post this is an open and shut case. You seem to think you know Zimmerman's mindset throughout the entire event even though many people throughout America are on both sides of the fence. I have no clue how people are so influenced or concluded (Both sides of the fence) into their opinions just yet without even a trial.

    There is NO race card being played here.
    Unfortunately that's not true.

    A teenage boy is dead because of Zimmerman. Regardless of the details, he let it happen and has to take responsibility for it SOMEHOW, and that means making amends, whether by prison time, having his license to own a firearm permanently taken away, or something...
    Yes Martin died. Yes. Zimmerman was likely overzealous. However evidence (Or details as you call it) is everything. Zimmerman doesn't need to take responsibility of anything till the court finds him guilty of the charges presented. The reality, thanks to couch lawyers, is that no matter what that evidence shows there is no good result with any verdict.

    As this forum shows, people make a lot of assumptions about people they don't know. Us Americans live country were you can share your opinions and thank God court of public opinions means jack shit in the actual Court system (though not always true) Most of us would have been burnt at the stake without any legal representation years ago.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    It's not an assumption that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin and it's not an assumption that Trayvon Martin was doing nothing more than walking back from the convenience store.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    It's not an assumption that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin and it's not an assumption that Trayvon Martin was doing nothing more than walking back from the convenience store.
    Assumption is occurring what happened in between those two events. It's not as simple as Teen walking home, teen is shot. Hence, a trial.

    But my assumption statement wasn't even about the trial. It's about concluding another's character or mind frame with no bases. That's happening against Zimmerman and Martin. Good and bad.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Ernie View Post
    Accepting friend requests on FB doesn't make someone your friend. Lol

    What was the determining factor for Zimmerman to consider Martin suspicious? Neighborhood crimes had been committed by black youths. That's it. Just his race. How can you term a kid walking back from a 7-11 as suspicious? He spotted Zimmerman and was concerned enough to mention it to his girlfriend he was being followed. You continue to refer to him as the suspect when in fact he was a victim.

    Zimmerman had zero authority to determine why he (Martin) was there or who he was. He was only a citizen. An armed citizen. Armed with a handgun and the knowledge of Florida's intentionally vague Castle law. An armed citizen tired of "those hoods" always getting away. So he pursued. The subsequent events will have to be determined by a jury.
    First off, the FB friends are personal acquaintances, that was my point, though I didn't state it.

    Secondly, Zimmerman wasn't even sure of his race when the operator asked him but if crimes being committed there by black youths is creating problems for other black youths, why isn't anyone putting some blame on the persons that created the atmosphere there? He's being referred to as a suspect by me because I'm assuming Zimmerman considered him suspicious. Zimmerman had undergone neighborhood watchman training and was a licensed gun carrier. His version of events, if found to be true, would mean he committed no crime under Florida law, but you're right, that will be for a jury to determine, which is all any of us defending Zimmerman are trying to say.
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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    ZIMMERMAN was the one with the power (the gun). HE was the one who decided to watch Martin. HE knew the situation could result in a life being lost due to gunfire (HIS gunfire). HE knew the entire conflict could have been avoided if he had just put aside his ego and let the fucking cops do their jobs. There is NO race card being played here. A teenage boy is dead because of Zimmerman. Regardless of the details, he let it happen and has to take responsibility for it SOMEHOW, and that means making amends, whether by prison time, having his license to own a firearm permanently taken away, or something...
    Zimmerman was a trained watchman, licensed to carry a gun. For all we know, he spotted a suspicious character, began following him, called 911, and stood down when told he didn't need to pursue Martin. Maybe that teen-aged boy is dead because he then confronted and assaulted an armed man who might have done nothing more than defend himself in accordance with FL law.. The race card is being played by Sharpton and Jackson (its all they do) as well as Obama, the NBP, and the MSM. Its funny how none of them have mentioned other assaults apparently triggered by this event or any of the other thousand or so young black men killed since Martin.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Wasn't there a thread a few days ago a girl posted about seeing some creepy guy in her window, and being ticked her boyfriend didnt go confront him? Everyone called him a pussy for not charging out there and confronting the guy.

    That seems to be the hypocrisy of people at large. When crime goes on, we get mad at people who just sit idly by, and wish they would "do something" other than just wait for cops.

    Then, when people do, we're outraged.

    I live about 20 minutes away from where this happened. That neighborhood has been wrecked with crime. It's not uncommon to drive by that exact community and see 15 teenagers (of every race) selling drugs and breaking into houses. The cops simply have too much to do to get anywhere quickly. Waiting for the cops to come is essentially letting the crime happen, because they'll never make it in time.

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    Default Re: seriously zimmerman?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    It's not an assumption that Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin and it's not an assumption that Trayvon Martin was doing nothing more than walking back from the convenience store.
    The same 911 transcript you provided for me does not support that Martin was 'doing nothing more than walking back from the convenience store'. "It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. He's just staring....looking at all the houses.'' So, you have a neighborhood watch person observe a young man allegedly not walking with a purpose ....merely walking around in the rain looking at all the houses where there had been recent burglaries. Zimmerman had every right to call 911...follow and observe....being the eyes and ears of the community as he had done in the past.

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