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Thread: Negotiating entire night up front

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    Default Negotiating entire night up front

    I'm a "one girl for the night" guy. On the occassions where I am looking to lose myself, I don't want to have to worry about counting songs and have her to focus on only me, not the song count. Honestly, I lose count when in the moment.

    I have never been in a VIP, but I am not certain it is what I want. It sounds like a waste of money for me and you, and I like being at a table in the corner where I can see the entire floor sometimes. So... Can I negotiate after a few dances the total for the whole night upfront? How will the club handle not having her count songs? I know, if I pay enough it will be fine. So how much is enough for a night (4-6 hours)? I understand it varies by place.

    What are the challenges or obstacles you anticipate with this? Any?

    Extras don't interest me in general, so VIP seems to be focused on that. I came for the journey. I want time: dances, drinks, conversation, dances.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    4 hours x 300 to 500 an hour = 1,200 to 2,000 dollars total for time spent, at least in my city. I have no idea for St. Louis clubs (or the club you frequent for that matter).
    If you are going to pay that much, you might as well go VIP and tell her what you want.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by BringOnTheMen View Post
    Also know that she may be forced to do stage shows so if you really want her all to yourself then you need to ask her if you can tip the dj to take her off rotation.
    I'll have to remember that one. Twice now my ATF has been pulled from my VIP time to do a stage run.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Jing, it completely depends upon the girl and the club. Just quietly speak with the girl of your choice about what you are looking for. Tipping for time is my primary form of compensating girls ITC, so I can very comfortably tell you that many dancers that I deal with would gladly sit with you for 4 hours for as little as $1000, particularly if they do not need to pay LD/VIP cuts to the club.

    But, IMHO, your best chance in pulling this off is to keep it as under the radar as possible from the club's perspective. If you are not in a pay by the clock VIP/CR area, most clubs are not going to stop counting songs just because you want to give more of the money to her. If you are spending that much money on her and she is dancing for you, she may catch some heat for doing so without using their LD area and paying the appropriate per dance cuts to the club, which also means that she may be limited in how much actual dancing she can do for you at that corner table. I have no doubt, however, that she could make up for that with sweetness and intimacy.

    You may also have trouble keeping her off of the stage if you are not using the the club's VIP/CR area. But, IMHO, taking occasional breaks while she does her required stage sets is a small price to pay in order to maximize your time with her and what she keeps for that time.

    And bring cash - lots of cash. BOTM is absolutely right about the issues with funny money, including the fact that most clubs discount the shit out of it when they pay the dancers and it alerts everyone to the fact that she had a good night, which means more hands trying to reach into her wallet. Some clubs also limit how much funny money they will let a girl cash out in a given night, so if you give her $1000 in funny money and she is only allowed to cash $300 of it in per night, then it may take her a long time to convert it to cash, particularly if other guys give her more funny money on other nights.

    In any event, good luck!

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Sometimes it can be awkward to bring up an hourly/nightly rate to a customer, so if you want to broach the topic I am POSITIVE the girl will be receptive...as long as you're willing to pay the aforementioned $300-500 hourly rate. Some clubs don't have real VIP's...mine has a little one that costs like $50 an hour or is free with a bottle purchase, but the girl isn't a part of that transaction, so you have girls coming in all night looking to dance for tips. It's nothing special, just a little roped off area next to the stage. However, it is a little more intimate, and we could theoretically have customers buy out the space and then have a good place to sit with them all night...and then if we have to go on stage, it's RIGHT there, so it can turn into sort of a private stage show just for the VIP customer. But if the club in question doesn't have this option and you don't want to pay the price for a real champagne room, I would recommend just finding an out-of-the-way corner you can stay in and give the girl cash up front, or at the start of every hour if you feel more comfortable that way.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    While "paying for time" is not something I ever was or ever will be interested in doing, FWIW, what you pay should be directly proportional to how busy the club is and what moneymaking opportunities the girl must forego to give you what you're looking for. A slow weeknight or afternoon should require less $$$ than a packed weekend night. When I was an active customer, while I never monopolized anyone's time, I always tried to schedule my visits at times that the girl was most likely not to be busy or to reschedule dances if I found her to be busy when I was there.
    Since you are not referring to a specific dancer when you ask this, why on Earth would you want to commit to a whole night, perhaps a $1000 or more, with a girl you're not already somewhat familiar with? I'd suggest you purchase her time in hourly increments thereby giving you an out if things take a turn for the worse. On top of that, 4 to 6 hours sitting in a SC talking one-on-one runs the possibility of either running out of things to talk about or having a disagreement. It would be a shame if you paid her several hundred only to find things suddenly go awry and you find yourself sitting alone.
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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by firemaiden04 View Post
    ...It's nothing special, just a little roped off area next to the stage. However, it is a little more intimate, and we could theoretically have customers buy out the space and then have a good place to sit with them all night...

    if the club in question doesn't have this option and you don't want to pay the price for a real champagne room, I would recommend just finding an out-of-the-way corner you can stay in and give the girl cash up front, or at the start of every hour if you feel more comfortable that way.
    The semi-private area might be nice. I don't like the open rooms for dancing. I get the impression VIPs are for extras, and the money goes to the club, not the girl. I can spend $2k a night once in a while, but that would include tips for her. I can bring another $500 or so for drinks and tipping others. Seems that in VIP, she will get significantly less than otherwise.

    If VIPs are mostly for extras, how would the type of girl I am most interested in, possibly someone who doesn't and wouldn't do extras, feel about being asked back there. I know if could be worked out with enough conversation. I can be awkward at initially expressing myself properly, depending on my day.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    While "paying for time" is not something I ever was or ever will be interested in doing, FWIW,
    I am looking for dances all night, it's not just sitting there. I guess more to my point is with won't be dancing 100% of the time.

    what you pay should be directly proportional to how busy the club is and what moneymaking opportunities the girl must forego to give you what you're looking for. A slow weeknight or afternoon should require less $$$ than a packed weekend night. When I was an active customer, while I never monopolized anyone's time, I always tried to schedule my visits at times that the girl was most likely not to be busy or to reschedule dances if I found her to be busy when I was there.
    Good info. I am only a casual visitor. What are the best nights to visit? I know Fri and Sat are obviously the busiest, but I want a night where the top ladies will be there but less busy.
    Since you are not referring to a specific dancer when you ask this, why on Earth would you want to commit to a whole night, perhaps a $1000 or more, with a girl you're not already somewhat familiar with? I'd suggest you purchase her time in hourly increments thereby giving you an out if things take a turn for the worse. On top of that, 4 to 6 hours sitting in a SC talking one-on-one runs the possibility of either running out of things to talk about or having a disagreement. It would be a shame if you paid her several hundred only to find things suddenly go awry and you find yourself sitting alone.

    Good advice on the hourly thing. I have had good luck, so the idea of having bad luck after paying for a couple "feel you out" dances really hadn't occurred to me since they are going to pretty much pretend I am awesome the whole time. I just like the idea of not having anything to think about out of the way.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Ask a lady you are interested in .....it is HER opinion that matters and the only one that does. As mentioned...the night of the week, how busy it is and how much the lady normally makes would all factor into it. Also, how her tip out works would also influence what the appropriate amount would be. I know I could walk into 'my' club and any of the dancers would be more than willing to dedicate their evening (5 hours) to me for significant less money (considering minimal non VIP dances) than what is being talked about on here. It is a double edged sword.....you aren't going to have a lady spend 5 hours with you for 1000 if she normally can make 2000. Also, no need to pay 2000 if a great night for her would 1000. Talk to the lady...she will tell you what it would take.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by Jing-Qi-Shen View Post
    The semi-private area might be nice. I don't like the open rooms for dancing. I get the impression VIPs are for extras, and the money goes to the club, not the girl. I can spend $2k a night once in a while, but that would include tips for her. I can bring another $500 or so for drinks and tipping others. Seems that in VIP, she will get significantly less than otherwise.

    If VIPs are mostly for extras, how would the type of girl I am most interested in, possibly someone who doesn't and wouldn't do extras, feel about being asked back there. I know if could be worked out with enough conversation. I can be awkward at initially expressing myself properly, depending on my day.
    Who told you that VIPs are all about extras? That is most certainly NOT the case in many places. Idk anything about your club, but I have no doubt that you could easily find a dancer who would happily spend a multi-hour VIP simply providing dances, chatting and drinking.

    Now what the club takes, and how far $2k will get you, is another matter. This is completely dependent upon the club in question. Also, it is customary to tip a little extra when a girl spends that much time with you in VIP, so you should factor that in. Just go to your local club and I have no doubt that any dancer will happily fill you in on all of the details.

    Idk, but it sounds to me like you are trying to get a multi-hour VIP experience, including unlimited dances and other interactions, without paying the club its cut. I believe that this will be very difficult to achieve. IMHO, your best bet may be to shop the clubs to find where the most reasonable VIP/CR rates are and to take it from there.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by Jing-Qi-Shen View Post
    If VIPs are mostly for extras, how would the type of girl I am most interested in, possibly someone who doesn't and wouldn't do extras, feel about being asked back there. I know if could be worked out with enough conversation. I can be awkward at initially expressing myself properly, depending on my day.
    Although there are certainly some clubs and some dancers who expect extras will be performed in VIP rooms, it is a myth that extras always happen. Plus, I'd say that a lot of the time dancers can read guys pretty well...I always know within a couple of minutes of talking to a guy if he's likely to cause problems by getting handsy or demanding sexual favors. In my experience, the biggest spenders at strip clubs are the ones that expect the least from you...the ones who want blow jobs or full contact or whatever are more likely to nickel-and-dime you and bitch about spending the bare minimum. If you're up front with the dancer in question that you aren't interested in dances, only conversation and company without having to worry about the number of dances, I doubt she'll jump to the conclusion that you're looking to get laid.

    Although there are some dancers who lack confidence and/or or self-esteem and assume that all strip club patrons are looking for sex, any decent dancer should believe that her company is worth $300-500 an hour.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    I'll have to remember that one. Twice now my ATF has been pulled from my VIP time to do a stage run.
    Are you kidding?? They pull her from VIP?? Wow. Just wow. Some clubs are run by morons.
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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by JayATee View Post
    Are you kidding?? They pull her from VIP?? Wow. Just wow. Some clubs are run by morons.
    Yep, we have a club out here where they do the same thing. The only way this club will take a dancer off the stage rotation while in VIP is if you setup with the dancer at an hourly rate, of which the club then takes 40% of the VIP hourly fee. And this does not go towards the tip-out. And the customer has to purchase the right to go to VIP in the first place for $25.

    Not just run by morons, but greedy morons.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Like everyone has said depends on club rules. But if a guy paid me $1K cash Id sit with him all night as long as he doesnt bore me to death. I would only do a few dances though probably.. Dancing for several hours for same person is exhausting. I had a regular in an old city I work who would do this. Usually Id dance maybe 1 hour total spread the whole night, sit with him the rest of the time. I still did my stage sets which was only 2-3/ night at this club. He was really cool so I enjoyed his company.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by JayATee View Post
    Are you kidding?? They pull her from VIP?? Wow. Just wow. Some clubs are run by morons.
    I visited a club in Atlanta where the DJ would do exactly that, unless of course the customer paid an additional $20 "fee" to have her pulled from the rotation. This so-called fee was actually a holdup that went directly into the pockets of the manager and the DJ, but you could rest assured that if you did not cough it up, she would be pulled out of your VIP session in order to do a stage set.

    I was forewarned about this on a customer board and I did indeed pay it when I went back. About a week later, a story was posted on that board by another customer who refused to pay it out of principle. Predictably, not only was the manager suddenly quite vigilant about ensuring that nothing out of line was taking place back there, but the dancer was indeed pulled out for a stage set about 10 minutes in. LOL - it was quite a racket.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by JayATee View Post
    Are you kidding?? They pull her from VIP?? Wow. Just wow. Some clubs are run by morons.
    When I bought dances, it was almost exclusively at one particular club. At this particular club, the girls were expected to dance a predetermined 15 minute block each hour. We used to schedule our dances for a minute or two before their block would start to save them from having to go on stage. In fact, we often would say early in the evening that we'd do a VIP at 9:55 or 10:55 to avoid the top-of-the-hour stage call. The girl could hang with me or hustle as she saw fit confident that she had a dance waiting for her and at least one stage set eliminated. A lot of girls seemed never to have to go on stage.
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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    The house cut in general is one of the issues you will have to deal with if you want to buy-out a dancer's night and want to do dances with her throughout the evening (or afternoon). You and the dancer may have a deal about what you are paying her but the house gets a cut on VIP and, in many cases, a cut on every single private dance that she does. You should plan on those house fees as being an additional out-of pocket expense for you. I have a flat-fee arrangement with a long time fav of mine who's club added a $5 per song tariff a year or so ago. Previously we could go into the PD area and not have to count dances or even keep track of time. After this went into effect (the club has a timekeeper and a software program that tracks dances) I told her that I would simply pay whatever the timekeeper asked for when we exited the PD area. That additional expense to me is worth it in the over-all context of (a) getting a good deal that works for her and for me and (b) still being able to relax and not try to count dances which is, admittedly, quite difficult for both of us once things get rolling...
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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    In my experience the girls who get pulled out of PD area to go onstage are newbies who are still tipping the DJ and or housemother the minimum...
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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    in my old club I had to buy off my stages, plus pay a VIP fee, so for 4-5hours Id need at least 1k to cover time and my costs.
    Thats not including drinks (but I dont really drink anyways) and would include a few dances, but mainly conversation.
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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quite a coincidence to run across this thread, as I was thinking about this same thing after my latest visit to our local club on Friday. There's a dancer there who I have come to see the last 3 Friday nights and we've had fun each time. Nothing above and beyond, just good, clean fun and some good conversation before/after dances too. It's a little bit of a dive club and I know most guys there are a lot more crude and worse tippers (I've seen enough of them in action). At their place the VIP is $150 for a half hour. Usually I'm only there long enough to visit with her 20-30 minutes, then do a VIP session and chat a little afterward. Thinking about suggesting an all-night deal some night, but I didn't know how receptive some dancers could be to that.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by jordancage View Post
    At their place the VIP is $150 for a half hour.
    Good GOD...what a colossal rip-off. My club only charges 30 bucks for a half an hour...and it's not all that much of a dive. Does that include any dances or is that just to get into VIP? In my case obviously it's just the entrance/time fee.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by socialreject View Post
    Good GOD...what a colossal rip-off. My club only charges 30 bucks for a half an hour...and it's not all that much of a dive. Does that include any dances or is that just to get into VIP? In my case obviously it's just the entrance/time fee.
    Sorry, maybe I worded that wrong. The $150 covers her being with you for a half hour in the VIP area (dancing, etc.). The girls will pretty much always dance for the whole half hour w/ you, unless you want to just chat for a while or something. I usually give a $50 tip on top of that. I'm not really sure how much of the $150 the dancers get there to be honest.

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    Default Re: Negotiating entire night up front

    Quote Originally Posted by DesuvsDeath View Post
    According to some SW gals... you shouldn't even pay the minimum unless the DJ is already scheduling your stage sets to make you optimal money and prioritizing you over all other girls.
    I totally want to quote this at them.
    LOL, well, that doesn't surprise me given the sense of entitlement that exists among some dancers nowadays. I'm all for being self-confident and driven to earn but some gals have yet to learn that working in any business requires a bit of give-and take as well as a clear grasp of what the support staff at the club can do to help you and to hurt you.
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