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    Default Positive Developments for US Economy

    A good article showing some of the great potential the US has for economic growth.

    "...
    because of the rapid
    expansion of oil and gas production from shale
    , America is likely to become by 2020 the world’s No. 1 producer of oil, gas and biofuels — eclipsing even the energy superpowers, Russia and Saudi Arabia."

    "...What’s happening, according to BCG, is a “reshoring” back to America of manufacturing that previously migrated offshore, especially to China. The analysts estimate that by 2015, China’s cost advantage will have shrunk to the point that many manufacturers will prefer to open plants in the United States?.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/an-economic-boom-ahead/2012/05/04/gIQAbj5K2T_story.html

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    True. Now name one thing, just one, that Obama is doing to help this along.

    Has anyone besides me noted how the lamestream media is coming out with a LOT of stories and pieces chock full of "good " economic news ? Not that they'd ever try to influence an election or anything.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    True. Now name one thing, just one, that Obama is doing to help this along.
    I. On the Natural Gas front:

    A) "Obama forms group to streamline natural gas policies" http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/13/news...-gas/index.htm

    B) "In Nevada, President Obama declares the U.S. the 'Saudi Arabia of natural gas' and encourages shipping companies and others to power their fleets with the fuel resource."

    C) "On Thursday, Obama announced that his Interior Department was preparing to open up 38 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico for more energy exploration and development. The lease sale is the final one scheduled as part of a five-year plan for drilling in the central gulf."

    D) "The president rolled out a plan that offers tax incentives for companies that buy natural-gas-powered trucks. He promoted the idea in a visit to a UPS hub because company officials were, he said, among the first to respond to his call for increased use of natural gas vehicles."http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan...nergy-20120127

    E)He also pointed to a proposal he outlined in his State of the Union address, which would require that 80 percent of the country’s electricity come from low-carbon sources like wind, natural gas and nuclear by 2035. http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-...nergy-strategy


    II. On the "reshoring" jobs to the U.S.:

    A)
    Reshoring Initiative Encourages Manufacturers to Bring Jobs Back to US at White House’s Insourcing American Jobs Forum
    "Harry Moser, founder of the Reshoring Initiative, was invited to participate in a day-long Insourcing Forum hosted by President Obama at the White House on January 11. Featuring a cross-section of American industry leaders and experts and cabinet level officials, the event included a roundtable discussion with President Obama, a speech by President Obama on the insourcing of jobs and two panel discussions on bringing jobs back to the United States."
    http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/...an-jobs-forum-


    B) Obama aims to reward businesses that invest in US

    "The White House says the president will propose $12 million in his 2013 budget to promote business investment from overseas in the United States. Obama has already proposed tax incentives, including a cut in employers' Social Security taxes, to encourage more hiring. Congress has not acted on those measures."

    http://www.timesrepublican.com/page/...sap=1&nav=5014

    C) The president plans to propose tax incentives to reward companies that create US jobs. He wants to end tax breaks for companies that send jobs overseas

    "The tax initiatives will be part of the fiscal 2013 budget plan that is set to be sent to Congress the first week of February. The White House didn’t release details. Obama also plans to propose adding $12 million for a program to promote foreign direct investment in the U.S. and work with state and local governments to attract businesses.
    The companies at the event are among those that have decided to return jobs from overseas or increase their U.S. operations."
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-the-u-s-.html

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Has anyone besides me noted how the lamestream media is coming out with a LOT of stories and pieces chock full of "good " economic news ? Not that they'd ever try to influence an election or anything.
    Yes, there are a lot more stories with good economic news, but IMHO there is also a lot more good economic news to report.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    We will see. I hope you are right but I am forced to keep in mind that "Mr. Hopey Changy" is running for re-election.

    Some of the "initiatives" you highlighted are nothing more than the same old , same old and haven't been working. Some are just doubling down on already failed policies.

    For instance, the progress made in oil and gas production has been happening in spite of Obama and his policies. Likewise, his "Green Initiatives" for the most part have just been a a waste of money. Obama hasn't lifted a finger to convert Federal vehicles to natural gas or to mandate that our truck fleet convert from diesel to natural gas.

    Unemployment still stinks with no signs of getting better. Economic growth is the worst for any post-recession period on record. Next year, the tax on dividends and interest is scheduled to go to 43%. Not exactly harbingers of good times to come.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    We will see. I hope you are right but I am forced to keep in mind that "Mr. Hopey Changy" is running for re-election.

    Some of the "initiatives" you highlighted are nothing more than the same old , same old and haven't been working. Some are just doubling down on already failed policies.

    For instance, the progress made in oil and gas production has been happening in spite of Obama and his policies. Likewise, his "Green Initiatives" for the most part have just been a a waste of money.

    Unemployment still stinks with no signs of getting better. Economic growth is the worst for any post-recession period on record. Next year, the tax on dividends and interest is scheduled to go to 43%. Not exactly harbingers of good times to come.
    It appears to me that you are attempting to switch gears and turn this into an endless political argument, which I want no part of. You asked for ONE thing that he has done to aid in either of the 2 items in the OP, I provided several. There is more than ample evidence that there are very positive developments and likely positive outcomes from almost every sector including employment and energy.

    "U.S. companies in March posted the highest number of job openings in nearly four years, a sign that hiring could strengthen in the coming months after slowing this spring.

    The Labor Department said Tuesday that employers advertised 3.74 million job openings in March. That's up from a revised 3.57 million in February. The March figure was the highest since July 2008, just before the financial crisis erupted that fall."

    http://www.npr.org/2012/05/08/152258...rs?f=1001&ft=1

    Obama hasn't lifted a finger to convert Federal vehicles to natural gas or to mandate that our truck fleet convert from diesel to natural gas.
    "In what is being described as an attempt to lessen dependence on foreign oil and cut fuel costs, President Barack Obama announced plans for sweeping changes this week in federal fleet policy,

    By 2015, 100% of the vehicles purchased by the government will run on alternative fuel, meaning electric, natural gas, clean diesel and flex-fuel cars that use E85, a blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline."

    http://thesmartvan.com/blog/2011/05/...-fuel-by-2015/

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    You are right that we are BOTH veering into the "political" and we ought to BOTH correct course and emphasize the economics.

    I asked you for things Obama has done. You responded with mostly proposals. I have previously pointed out how and why domestic energy production is occurring DESPITE Obama. It is happening for the most part on PRIVATE and/or state controlled lands. Who is it who wants to increase taxes on oil companies ? Do you seriously think that if that comes to pass that the increased costs will not be passed along to consumers ? Likewise, his "green energy " stuff ( Solyndra is just one example ) so far seems to be throwing good money after bad.

    I am NOT one of those folks who blames EVERYTHING on Obama. But it is HIS dovish appointees to the Fed who are giving us negative interest rates when they should be about 2 %. It was HIS near trillion dollar stimulus program that did not stimulate. HE let Pelosi et. al. orient it for more toward protecting civil servants instead of focusing on infrastructure. HE has not lifted a finger to give us tax reform. He certainly has done nothing, zip, zero, NADA ! to control spending. We are supposedly out of recession and yet we are spending at about 25% of GDP.

    Btw, as for "greening" the Federal fleet, I'll believe it when I see it. "Clean diesel" is still diesel. "Flex fuel" vehicles can and often will have to run on 90% gasoline. A lot of it depends and will depend on WHERE those vehicles are deployed.

    Despite all the "happy talk" the fact remains that we are NOT creating new jobs and that is mostly because small businesses are not starting; or expanding and a LOT of employers are taking a "wait and see" approach rather than hire people. Why shouldn't they ? If Krugman and Reich are not optimistic then why should I be ? Why should anyone else ? Are you seriously saying that big government liberal economists like "Krugie" and the world's tallest mental midget are really ignoring all the good news you've been trying to come up with ?

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    You are right that we are BOTH veering into the "political" and we ought to BOTH correct course and emphasize the economics.

    I asked you for things Obama has done. You responded with mostly proposals. I have previously pointed out how and why domestic energy production is occurring DESPITE Obama. It is happening for the most part on PRIVATE and/or state controlled lands. Who is it who wants to increase taxes on oil companies ? Do you seriously think that if that comes to pass that the increased costs will not be passed along to consumers ? Likewise, his "green energy " stuff ( Solyndra is just one example ) so far seems to be throwing good money after bad.

    I am NOT one of those folks who blames EVERYTHING on Obama. But it is HIS dovish appointees to the Fed who are giving us negative interest rates when they should be about 2 %. It was HIS near trillion dollar stimulus program that did not stimulate. HE let Pelosi et. al. orient it for more toward protecting civil servants instead of focusing on infrastructure. HE has not lifted a finger to give us tax reform. He certainly has done nothing, zip, zero, NADA ! to control spending. We are supposedly out of recession and yet we are spending at about 25% of GDP.

    Btw, as for "greening" the Federal fleet, I'll believe it when I see it. "Clean diesel" is still diesel. "Flex fuel" vehicles can and often will have to run on 90% gasoline. A lot of it depends and will depend on WHERE those vehicles are deployed.

    Despite all the "happy talk" the fact remains that we are NOT creating new jobs and that is mostly because small businesses are not starting; or expanding and a LOT of employers are taking a "wait and see" approach rather than hire people. Why shouldn't they ? If Krugman and Reich are not optimistic then why should I be ? Why should anyone else ? Are you seriously saying that big government liberal economists like "Krugie" and the world's tallest mental midget are really ignoring all the good news you've been trying to come up with ?
    I'm not into getting involved with endless minutia about what Krugman or Reich or anyone else says or thinks, I simply posted 2 areas where there is a lot of potential for positive development within the US. We most certainly are creating new jobs, small businesses are starting and companies are starting what is very possible to grow into a much larger trend of bringing overseas jobs back to the US. As far as the jobs go, we are maintaining a decent average given the circumstances (many formerly solid foreign economies are at 20% unemployment) and as far as the US that is in light of continued massive lay-offs of public workers at the state level.

    You asked for one thing Obama was doing to help those initiatives along, he has organized and commissioned the research, gotten private industry and government heads together and put solid proposals together to move us in those directions. The 2013 budget that he released includes concrete allocations for increasing natural gas development and use and provides tax incentives for manufacturers who create jobs in the US, doubles the deduction for advanced manufacturing and ends tax deductions for shipping jobs overseas.

    Most of his initiatives have been killed or languish in Congress. However here are some viable examples of the impact he has had with just a few large members of the Clean Cities’ National Clean Fleets Partnership he helped to create and successfully promoted:

    "Five thousand — and counting. That’s the newly-announced tally of alternative-fuel vehicles (AFVs) placed on U.S. roads by AT&T since the company embarked on a 10- year commitment of up to $565 million to deploy approximately 15,000 alternative fuel vehicles through 2018, including one of the largest U.S. corporate commitments to compressed natural gas"

    "In 2010, AT&T and other large U.S. fleet operators joined in the Department of Energy’s Clean Cities’ National Clean Fleets Partnership as part of a national challenge launched by President Obama to cut America’s petroleum imports by one-third by 2025."

    http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=33757

    Frito-Lay
    Frito-Lay is aiming to become the most fuel-efficient fleet in the country. In 2011, the company deployed 176 all-electric medium-duty delivery trucks, eliminating the need for 500,000 gallons of fuel per year and cutting emissions by 75% compared to diesel trucks. In addition, Frito-Lay's fleet includes more than 600 hybrid electric sales cars and rapidly expanding use of propane and natural gas. Additional significant fuel savings are being realized through driver training and use of GPS. The company joined the partnership in April 2011.

    Ryder
    Ryder opened its first natural gas vehicle maintenance facility in 2011, allowing the company to deploy hundreds of heavy-duty vehicles that run on compressed or liquefied natural gas. The project is expected to displace more than 1.5 million gallons of diesel fuel per year. Ryder also leases electric and hybrid vehicles to its fleet customers. The company joined the National Clean Fleets Partnership in June 2011.

    Verizon
    Verizon aims to have 15% of its fleet running on alternative fuels by 2015. In 2010, the company operated 370 of its vehicles to run on biofuels. It also purchased compressed natural gas vans and hybrid pick-ups and sedans. By the end 2011, within a fleet of more than 30,000 domestic telecom vehicles, Verizon operated more than 2,500 alternative energy vehicles. Verizon joined the National Clean Fleets Partnership in April 2011.
    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/cleancit...rtnership.html

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    ^^^ this would all be wonderful ... if it weren't being done at the 'expense' of US taxpayers i.e. alternative energy tax credits / write-offs reducing taxes paid by these large corporations, plus vastly reduced collection of fuel based 'road taxes' which will also have to be made up for by federal and state taxpayers !!!

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ this would all be wonderful ... if it weren't being done at the 'expense' of US taxpayers i.e. alternative energy tax credits / write-offs reducing taxes paid by these large corporations, plus vastly reduced collection of fuel based 'road taxes' which will also have to be made up for by federal and state taxpayers !!!
    ^^^The same thing has been happening for decades with oil and nuclear power. With all this domestic energy at home, there is a great chance we can cut our military budget quite substantially as we'll no longer have to police areas that contain our fuel supply. I would much rather use tax dollars encouraging US businesses and enterprises that provide jobs and stimulate the US economy, than spend it on overseas military adventures.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    ^^^ I agree with that logic completely. When will we see new US federal drilling permits for the Gulf and the ANWR ?

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ I agree with that logic completely. When will we see new US federal drilling permits for the Gulf and the ANWR ?
    Drilling in the Gulf or ANWR won't make too much of a difference to consumer's pocketbooks as the oil markets are too manipulated and the laws of supply and demand do not readily apply. Remember how we were promised $.99 a gallon oil as a result of invading Iraq?.

    In answer to your question however:

    "Not two years since the BP spill shook the Gulf of Mexico, Obama will sell $4 billion worth of leases to oil companies keen on drilling in the region."

    http://www.treehugger.com/fossil-fue...-drilling.html

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by jimboe7373 View Post
    I'm not into getting involved with endless minutia about what Krugman or Reich or anyone else says or thinks, I simply posted 2 areas where there is a lot of potential for positive development within the US. We most certainly are creating new jobs, small businesses are starting and companies are starting what is very possible to grow into a much larger trend of bringing overseas jobs back to the US. As far as the jobs go, we are maintaining a decent average given the circumstances (many formerly solid foreign economies are at 20% unemployment) and as far as the US that is in light of continued massive lay-offs of public workers at the state level.

    You asked for one thing Obama was doing to help those initiatives along, he has organized and commissioned the research, gotten private industry and government heads together and put solid proposals together to move us in those directions. The 2013 budget that he released includes concrete allocations for increasing natural gas development and use and provides tax incentives for manufacturers who create jobs in the US, doubles the deduction for advanced manufacturing and ends tax deductions for shipping jobs overseas.

    Most of his initiatives have been killed or languish in Congress. However here are some viable examples of the impact he has had with just a few large members of the Clean Cities’ National Clean Fleets Partnership he helped to create and successfully promoted:

    "Five thousand — and counting. That’s the newly-announced tally of alternative-fuel vehicles (AFVs) placed on U.S. roads by AT&T since the company embarked on a 10- year commitment of up to $565 million to deploy approximately 15,000 alternative fuel vehicles through 2018, including one of the largest U.S. corporate commitments to compressed natural gas"

    "In 2010, AT&T and other large U.S. fleet operators joined in the Department of Energy’s Clean Cities’ National Clean Fleets Partnership as part of a national challenge launched by President Obama to cut America’s petroleum imports by one-third by 2025."

    http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=33757

    Frito-Lay
    Frito-Lay is aiming to become the most fuel-efficient fleet in the country. In 2011, the company deployed 176 all-electric medium-duty delivery trucks, eliminating the need for 500,000 gallons of fuel per year and cutting emissions by 75% compared to diesel trucks. In addition, Frito-Lay's fleet includes more than 600 hybrid electric sales cars and rapidly expanding use of propane and natural gas. Additional significant fuel savings are being realized through driver training and use of GPS. The company joined the partnership in April 2011.

    Ryder
    Ryder opened its first natural gas vehicle maintenance facility in 2011, allowing the company to deploy hundreds of heavy-duty vehicles that run on compressed or liquefied natural gas. The project is expected to displace more than 1.5 million gallons of diesel fuel per year. Ryder also leases electric and hybrid vehicles to its fleet customers. The company joined the National Clean Fleets Partnership in June 2011.

    Verizon
    Verizon aims to have 15% of its fleet running on alternative fuels by 2015. In 2010, the company operated 370 of its vehicles to run on biofuels. It also purchased compressed natural gas vans and hybrid pick-ups and sedans. By the end 2011, within a fleet of more than 30,000 domestic telecom vehicles, Verizon operated more than 2,500 alternative energy vehicles. Verizon joined the National Clean Fleets Partnership in April 2011.
    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/cleancit...rtnership.html
    Excuse me but YOU are the one making use of words like "potential" , "proposals" , "possible" and "future". We will see but for the short term at least, I am not very optimistic.

    If you are parting ways with "Krugie", Reich et. al. that is fine but you can't have it both ways. Very few liberal economists are expressing anything resembling optimism at present.

    Btw, WHERE are you getting these cheerful numbers on employment ? Small business formation and hiring is DOWN according to Obama's Commerce and Labor Depts. Workforce participation is at its LOWEST level since the stat was created in the late 40's. The ONLY thing holding down the unemployment rate are all the people no longer counted in the Payroll and Household Surveys.

    As for "greening" vehicles we are talking apples and oranges. YOU are pointing to the Private sector which ( as Melonie pointed out ) is taking advantage of various tax deductions and credits. I was talking about Government vehicles many of which are assigned to places where it is neither sensible nor advisable for them to be powered by anything other than gasoline or diesel. I am all for conservation and switching to natural gas as much as possible. But even if we completely converted the state and federal fleets it would only put a small dent in our oil consumption.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Excuse me but YOU are the one making use of words like "potential" , "proposals" , "possible" and "future". We will see but for the short term at least, I am not very optimistic.
    I'm not sure what you're looking for here. You requested one thing that Obama was doing to aid the 2 items listed in the OP, I provided a bunch. Then you requested concrete things that he had done that wasn't "proposals" , "possible" and "future", and I provided proof of the funding that was allocated in his submitted budget, his opening up a large swath of the Gulf of Mexico for natural gas and his implementing a really successful program with private industry to get their fleets more efficient and off of oil. I don't know what else you want, this stuff is in practice, currently happening and underway.

    If you are parting ways with "Krugie", Reich et. al. that is fine but you can't have it both ways. Very few liberal economists are expressing anything resembling optimism at present.
    First off, I'm not a liberal. There is a tremendous amount of optimism coming from almost everywhere. We are now energy rich and stand to be much more so, a whole slew of dynamics is now having it make sense for companies to relocate back to the US and that trend is growing (with assistance from Obama). There are a bunch of other trends that are extremely positive for the US, those two alone however will without a doubt have a huge positive impact on our economy.

    Btw, WHERE are you getting these cheerful numbers on employment ? Small business formation and hiring is DOWN according to Obama's Commerce and Labor Depts. Workforce participation is at its LOWEST level since the stat was created in the late 40's. The ONLY thing holding down the unemployment rate are all the people no longer counted in the Payroll and Household Surveys.
    I'm seeing cheerful numbers and positive news almost everywhere regarding hiring and small business.


    "The 2012 Silicon Valley Index found job growth in the high-tech hub far outpaced the country as a whole last year. The region added 42,000 jobs, a jump of nearly 4 percent"

    "Job growth occurred in all major sectors of the Silicon Valley economy except manufacturing. Key industries adding jobs included cloud computing, mobile devices, mobile apps, Internet companies and social media."
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/07...#ixzz1uTsA8yO8

    "The number of people applying for U.S. unemployment benefits ticked down last week after dropping sharply the previous week, evidence hiring could pick up this month."

    "A jump in job openings also suggests hiring will pick up. Employers advertised 3.74 million job openings in March, the most since July 2008. It usually takes one to three months for employers to fill openings."
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/10...#ixzz1uTteyVGh

    "Texas small businesses anticipate growth"

    "The company's Spring 2012 Small Business Monitor said that 81 percent of the Texas small-business owners plan to expand their businesses, 44 percent expect higher sales over the next six months and 39 percent expect to hire during that time."
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/business...th-3486249.php

    "Rising Sales Spur Small-Business Growth"

    "Small businesses are turning the corner, after lagging behind big businesses in terms of sales and expansion opportunities following the recent recession. Small-business owners have more optimism in current economic conditions and in the direction of their own companies."

    "Eight out of 10 small-business owners are hopeful of growing their businesses in coming months amid rising demand for goods and services, according to the survey."
    http://www.kiplinger.com/businessres...#ixzz1uTvIWCZ2



    As for "greening" vehicles we are talking apples and oranges. YOU are pointing to the Private sector which ( as Melonie pointed out ) is taking advantage of various tax deductions and credits. I was talking about Government vehicles many of which are assigned to places where it is neither sensible nor advisable for them to be powered by anything other than gasoline or diesel. I am all for conservation and switching to natural gas as much as possible. But even if we completely converted the state and federal fleets it would only put a small dent in our oil consumption.
    We are not talking apples and organges, you asked for examples of what Obama was doing to help us exploit our natural gas reserves, I gave the Clean Fleet program involving the private sector that he created and successfully promoted as an example.

    As far as what he has done regarding federal fleets:

    "WASHINGTON, DC, May 24, 2011 (ENS) - All new light duty vehicles leased or purchased by the U.S. government must be alternatively fueled by the end of 2015, President Barack Obama directed Tuesday.
    In a formal Memorandum, issued in Washington while he is on a state visit to the UK, President Obama specified that by December 31, 2015 government agencies must acquire new cars or light trucks that are hybrid or electric, or run on compressed natural gas, biofuel or fuel cells."

    "Last year, GSA doubled the federal hybrid fleet without increasing the total number of vehicles. The resulting improvement in fleet fuel efficiency will reduce petroleum consumption by the equivalent of an estimated 7.7 million gallons of gasoline, or 385,000 barrels of oil. "Building on the
    increase in fuel efficiency achieved through last year's doubling of the federal hybrid fleet is a priority for the President and GSA," Johnson said."

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    80% of the drop in the unemployment rate.... is because of the drop in the Labor Participation rate..... This recovery is the worst of all time..... Just when we needed the best..... Now I sure don't think McCain would be doing any better..... But this recovery does suck.


    http://www.epi.org/news/shrinking-la...-unemployment/
    The country has been looted.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    "Not two years since the BP spill shook the Gulf of Mexico, Obama will sell $4 billion worth of leases to oil companies keen on drilling in the region."
    ... which is still 40% below the level of new leases prior to the Gulf oil spill. And the sale of leases doesn't automatically translate into the approval of drilling permits.


    "The 2012 Silicon Valley Index found job growth in the high-tech hub far outpaced the country as a whole last year. The region added 42,000 jobs, a jump of nearly 4 percent"
    ... primarily driven by US taxpayer 'subsidies' which allow Silicon Valley high-tech industries to pay extremely low corporate tax rates ( i.e. the Double Dutch sandwich )


    The company's Spring 2012 Small Business Monitor said that 81 percent of the Texas small-business owners plan to expand their businesses, 44 percent expect higher sales over the next six months and 39 percent expect to hire during that time."
    ... this is absolutely true ... lots of companies formerly based in high tax rate California, and other high tax rate states, are relocating to Texas and other low tax rate states. This in turn creates additional 'work' for Texas service suppliers. However, this should not be construed that jobs being added in Texas are all net additions. Many come at the expense of lost jobs at service suppliers in California and other high tax rate states.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by jimboe7373 View Post
    I'm not sure what you're looking for here. You requested one thing that Obama was doing to aid the 2 items listed in the OP, I provided a bunch. Then you requested concrete things that he had done that wasn't "proposals" , "possible" and "future", and I provided proof of the funding that was allocated in his submitted budget, his opening up a large swath of the Gulf of Mexico for natural gas and his implementing a really successful program with private industry to get their fleets more efficient and off of oil. I don't know what else you want, this stuff is in practice, currently happening and underway.

    First off, I'm not a liberal. There is a tremendous amount of optimism coming from almost everywhere. We are now energy rich and stand to be much more so, a whole slew of dynamics is now having it make sense for companies to relocate back to the US and that trend is growing (with assistance from Obama). There are a bunch of other trends that are extremely positive for the US, those two alone however will without a doubt have a huge positive impact on our economy.

    I'm seeing cheerful numbers and positive news almost everywhere regarding hiring and small business.


    "The 2012 Silicon Valley Index found job growth in the high-tech hub far outpaced the country as a whole last year. The region added 42,000 jobs, a jump of nearly 4 percent"

    "Job growth occurred in all major sectors of the Silicon Valley economy except manufacturing. Key industries adding jobs included cloud computing, mobile devices, mobile apps, Internet companies and social media."
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/07...#ixzz1uTsA8yO8

    "The number of people applying for U.S. unemployment benefits ticked down last week after dropping sharply the previous week, evidence hiring could pick up this month."

    "A jump in job openings also suggests hiring will pick up. Employers advertised 3.74 million job openings in March, the most since July 2008. It usually takes one to three months for employers to fill openings."
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/10...#ixzz1uTteyVGh

    "Texas small businesses anticipate growth"

    "The company's Spring 2012 Small Business Monitor said that 81 percent of the Texas small-business owners plan to expand their businesses, 44 percent expect higher sales over the next six months and 39 percent expect to hire during that time."
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/business...th-3486249.php

    "Rising Sales Spur Small-Business Growth"

    "Small businesses are turning the corner, after lagging behind big businesses in terms of sales and expansion opportunities following the recent recession. Small-business owners have more optimism in current economic conditions and in the direction of their own companies."

    "Eight out of 10 small-business owners are hopeful of growing their businesses in coming months amid rising demand for goods and services, according to the survey."
    http://www.kiplinger.com/businessres...#ixzz1uTvIWCZ2



    We are not talking apples and organges, you asked for examples of what Obama was doing to help us exploit our natural gas reserves, I gave the Clean Fleet program involving the private sector that he created and successfully promoted as an example.

    As far as what he has done regarding federal fleets:

    "WASHINGTON, DC, May 24, 2011 (ENS) - All new light duty vehicles leased or purchased by the U.S. government must be alternatively fueled by the end of 2015, President Barack Obama directed Tuesday.
    In a formal Memorandum, issued in Washington while he is on a state visit to the UK, President Obama specified that by December 31, 2015 government agencies must acquire new cars or light trucks that are hybrid or electric, or run on compressed natural gas, biofuel or fuel cells."

    "Last year, GSA doubled the federal hybrid fleet without increasing the total number of vehicles. The resulting improvement in fleet fuel efficiency will reduce petroleum consumption by the equivalent of an estimated 7.7 million gallons of gasoline, or 385,000 barrels of oil. "Building on the
    increase in fuel efficiency achieved through last year's doubling of the federal hybrid fleet is a priority for the President and GSA," Johnson said."
    I will try to keep this as simple and as apolitical as possible : If you are right then where are the signs of anything resembling a solid recovery ?

    Historically, the worse the recession the stronger the recovery. Why hasn't that been the case this time ? How do YOU explain an economic growth rate of barely 2 % ?

    How do YOU explain the REAL unemployment rate i.e. people listed as "unemployed" PLUS those who want to work full time but can't PLUS discouraged workers who have stopped looking for work ?

    Let's assume you are right. Do you have a timeframe for this rip-roaring recovery ? When do you anticipate a healthy growth rate ? At least 4 % ? When do you think unemployment will drop to let's say 6 % ? Will this be with or without all the tax increases scheduled to take effect in January ?

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by mikef View Post
    80% of the drop in the unemployment rate.... is because of the drop in the Labor Participation rate..... This recovery is the worst of all time..... Just when we needed the best..... Now I sure don't think McCain would be doing any better..... But this recovery does suck.


    http://www.epi.org/news/shrinking-la...-unemployment/
    First off, your link is pretty old. Second, it's all a matter of perspective and how you choose to look at it. There are quite a few economies that were recently strong and stable that now have unemployment rates over 20% and things are looking to get much worse. We are just recently out of (or still in depending on your viewpoint) one of the worst financial crisis in history. We have ADDED a lot of new private sector jobs while shedding tons and tons of public sector jobs. Considering all these factors and others, it is not so bad to be where we are. We are certainly not losing 500,000 jobs per month which we were consistently doing at one point. The overall trend is towards stability and more hiring. I don't know any rational person who thinks or expects that you are going to go from a crisis of the proportions we had right back to pre-crisis levels of economic activity or employment levels- that's not going to happen, it's going to be a slog.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I will try to keep this as simple and as apolitical as possible : If you are right then where are the signs of anything resembling a solid recovery ?

    Historically, the worse the recession the stronger the recovery. Why hasn't that been the case this time ? How do YOU explain an economic growth rate of barely 2 % ?

    How do YOU explain the REAL unemployment rate i.e. people listed as "unemployed" PLUS those who want to work full time but can't PLUS discouraged workers who have stopped looking for work ?

    Let's assume you are right. Do you have a timeframe for this rip-roaring recovery ? When do you anticipate a healthy growth rate ? At least 4 % ? When do you think unemployment will drop to let's say 6 % ? Will this be with or without all the tax increases scheduled to take effect in January ?
    Please show me anywhere that I mentioned anything about a recovery? I just simply stated that there are things to be positive about- namely, the US being energy rich for a while into the future, which will bring a multitude of benefits and that dynamics have and are evolving which are bringing manufacturing operations and jobs back to the US.

    I have no idea, nor do I have any control or concern when there will be "signs" of a positive recovery. I don't know nor do I care what the historical record is on recession and recovery- every instance is different and has different factors- it will be what it will be. I don't have a need or desire to explain REAL unemployment vs whatever it is you were asking, all I care about is that we have reversed what was an incredibly bad trend and really horrible downward momentum from a few years ago. Things are stabilized and many, many of the indicators that matter are positive and more importantly many people now have positive expectations of what the future will bring. There currently aren't too many economies in the world that wouldn't switch places with where the US is right now, things could easily be exponentially worse.

    A quick reference to your question on unemployment. The world and the economy is changing very quickly because of technology. The method of gathering data and statistics is antiquated and very likely not capable of measuring many of these changes. For example, nationwide, how many cam-girls do you think there are? How many of them do you think are showing up on employment statistics?. Likewise for the many, many thousands of people who are launching single person sole-proprietorship's both online and offline. I live outside the US and have dozens of friends from the US living in my city making a living off the internet or phone. They are almost all independent contractors involved with US firms, but they will not show up as employees in any stats- they will likely show up as unemployed people who have stopped looking for work. I travel frequently to a number of South American cities and can tell you that this is a big growing trend and there are likely tens of thousands of people currently doing this.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    So you see good times ahead without a recovery ?

    Things will get better without an increase in economic growth ?

    Things will improve but we can just toss away all the old metrics ?

    Aren't you really saying that you've just made up your mind to feel better about the economy regardless of what the stats are ?

    And without the old metrics just how is anybody supposed to able to tell how the economy is doing ?

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by jimboe7373 View Post
    First off, your link is pretty old. Second, it's all a matter of perspective and how you choose to look at it. There are quite a few economies that were recently strong and stable that now have unemployment rates over 20% and things are looking to get much worse. We are just recently out of (or still in depending on your viewpoint) one of the worst financial crisis in history. We have ADDED a lot of new private sector jobs while shedding tons and tons of public sector jobs. Considering all these factors and others, it is not so bad to be where we are. We are certainly not losing 500,000 jobs per month which we were consistently doing at one point. The overall trend is towards stability and more hiring. I don't know any rational person who thinks or expects that you are going to go from a crisis of the proportions we had right back to pre-crisis levels of economic activity or employment levels- that's not going to happen, it's going to be a slog.
    These two are very current.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...s-111-percent/

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/5778...mployment-rate



    I never did expect a great recovery...... I wrote we needed a great one..... This isn't it.

    The old days are over.


    The country has been looted.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by mikef View Post
    These two are very current.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...s-111-percent/

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/5778...mployment-rate



    I never did expect a great recovery...... I wrote we needed a great one..... This isn't it.

    The old days are over.


    As mentioned in the previous post- are either of these two articles taking into account the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of Americans who are making money in relatively new "tech" oriented ways- like online stores, web-camming, e-lancing, and dozens of other ways that are for the moment off the grid?. I would be very surprised if they were.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    So you see good times ahead without a recovery ?

    Things will get better without an increase in economic growth ?

    Things will improve but we can just toss away all the old metrics ?

    Aren't you really saying that you've just made up your mind to feel better about the economy regardless of what the stats are ?

    And without the old metrics just how is anybody supposed to able to tell how the economy is doing ?
    There is economic growth, 2% growth is better than 2% decline, it's much better than 10% decline, and yes for that I am happy.

    The stats that we used to use don't take everything into consideration anymore- things are evolving too fast and they haven't caught up yet. Never mind that the stats don't include hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of people who have started single person sole-proprietorships, there are and will be hundreds of thousands of jobs for all the newly arrived energy opportunities that have recently arrived, there will be tens of thousands of jobs coming back from re-shoring. I am quite capable of seeing the trends and the moves that we are making are encouraging hiring and increased economic activity from both of those dynamics as well as a bunch of other ones.

    As time goes by new metrics will likely evolve that will better measure how the economy is doing, it maybe will have a way to take into account all those single person start-ups and US people earning money online from foreign locales. But until then, overall positive remarks and attitudes from majority of big and small business owners, overall trends of increased revenue, rapid evolution of new technologies and the companies to manufacture and manage them etc. will suffice to make me personally feel optimistic and that things are going in the right direction. In addition, if the "current metrics" tell me we're not losing 50,000 or more jobs per month, if the number of business bankruptcies doesn't go up by a large margin (it decreased 17% for the early part of 2012), if I see us offering incentives and making plans to encourage and exploit long-term modern opportunities like we are in the fields of space, energy, bio-technology (which we are), I will likewise feel optimistic.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    The Labor Participation Rate is everyone in the country over age 16 not in the army or prison.

    I notice you sometimes like to point to new fields and jobs as if they are not reported.... They are..... Do many people make money without reporting it? You bet cha..... But that's always existed..... I think the idea that "hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of Americans" are off the grid...... might be stretching it a bit.
    The country has been looted.

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    Default Re: Positive Developments for US Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by mikef View Post
    The Labor Participation Rate is everyone in the country over age 16 not in the army or prison.

    I notice you sometimes like to point to new fields and jobs as if they are not reported.... They are..... Do many people make money without reporting it? You bet cha..... But that's always existed..... I think the idea that "hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of Americans" are off the grid...... might be stretching it a bit.
    Yes, that is what it is and ideally how it works- my point is that with recent changes in technology people are able to make money, report income and pay taxes that do not get listed as employees. Many of my friends are independent contractors who work for US financial firms and live overseas. They are not reported as employees on the US companies balance sheets and are not listed as employees on their own reports- they claim the income as personal income. I have a very difficult time believing they are picked up by the L.P.R. report. I likewise have a hard time believing that many people engaging in web-camming, e-lancing, operating e-commerce stores and similar ventures are picked up by this report. How does someone in a multi-level marketing company get picked up and documented?, I don't know, but I have no problem believing that hundreds of thousands of people are falling through the cracks currently.

    In addition, Barclay's has a report that further sheds light on how conventional wisdom on this topic may no longer be as valid as it once was: http://business.time.com/2012/03/02/...s-rates-worse/
    Last edited by jimboe7373; 05-10-2012 at 01:32 PM.

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