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Thread: Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

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    Default Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

    for what it's worth ... from


    (snip)"We are following the exact path of the Roman Empire and every empire that has existed in human history. Our decline is well under way. The only question is how long before the final collapse. I can guarantee you it won’t be centuries. History moves more rapidly and the weapons at the disposal of war pigs are much more lethal. First there will be financial collapse, then world war. In the meantime, enjoy the bread and circuses while your dollars are debased by the minute.

    Rome Didn’t Fall In A Day

    [The Following post is by TDV Correspondent, Chris Sullivan]

    Back in the ’70s, I used to expect the government to suffer a financial collapse at which time it would have to quit doing most of the things it’s doing because it would run out of money. That isn’t what has happened. Instead of cutting spending it has printed more money and tried to increase taxes on various things.

    Like many things historical, there’s a precedent for this. There’s a proverbial saying that “Rome wasn’t built in a day,” but it didn’t collapse in a day either. Probably most of the Romans who lived as the Empire was collapsing didn’t realize that was what was happening, but plenty of them realized they weren’t living in the good old days.

    One such person was a man named Salvian, sometimes called Salvian the Presbyter. He wrote a treatise that is called in English The Governance Of God or De gubernatione Dei in Latin*. Its original title was On The Present Judgement and it is well worth reading to see how things played out then and probably always will. His purpose was to show that the then current problems were caused by moral collapse, excessive taxation and a greedy and conniving landed class, not an abandonment of the old pagan religion. Julian the Apostate who had made the opposite argument 70 or so years before, had tried to re-institute paganism and even tried to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, presumably because it wasn’t Christian and he liked practices such as animal sacrifice, but his efforts ended when he was killed in a war with the Persians after a short reign.

    In making his case, Salvian left us a first-hand account of how things went to rot. One of the things he mentions over and over is how the peasant class was obliterated by oppressive taxation and how the small land owners indentured themselves to the large land owners who paid their taxes for them, but in return got their land and their labor, eventually leading to feudalism. Even after the small land owners had lost their land and become coloni – those who worked the land but did not own it – they still were liable for the tax, thus permanently indenturing them to the wealthy land owner who paid it for them.

    The Romans had a system of permanent tax collectors called curiales. If you were born a curiale, you could not change jobs and were liable to pay any taxes you could not collect. Needless to say, this assured great diligence on the part of the curiales.

    One of the many things Salvian mentions that is starting to be more common in the U.S., but was unheard of just a few years ago is people fleeing the Empire and renouncing their citizenship.


    “Thus, far and wide, they migrate either to the Goths or to the Bagaudae, or to other barbarians everywhere in power; yet they do not repent of having migrated. They prefer to live as freemen under an outward form of captivity, than as captives under the appearance of liberty. Therefore, the name of Roman citizens, at one time not only greatly valued, but dearly bought, is now repudiated and fled from, and it is almost considered not only base, but even deserving of abhorrence.”(pg.136)


    Just as Washington refuses to rein in its excesses, the same was true of Rome around A.D. 450.


    “Then, indeed, the authors of base pleasures feasted at will in most places, but all things were filled and stuffed to overflowing. Nobody thought of the State’s expenses, nobody thought of the State’s losses, because the cost was not felt. The State itself sought how it might squander what it was already scarcely able to acquire. The heaping up of wealth which had already exceeded its limit was overflowing even into trifling matters. But what can be said of the present-day situation? That old abundances have gone from us. The resources of former times have gone. We are already poverty-stricken, yet we do not cease to be spendthrift.” (167, 16


    It wasn’t just in fiscal matters that modern times resemble the fall of Rome. Salvian laments the obsession people had with attending (American Idol/NFL/NBA) the games. Rome had degenerated so far that there were 175 holidays per year, each with its state-sponsored amusements. The Roman Army had boy camp-followers instead of, or perhaps in addition to female prostitutes. The shouts of people being killed in defense of the city could not be distinguished from those at the games.


    “As I have said, the noise of battle outside the walls and of the games within, the voices of the dying outside and the voices of the reveling within, were mingled. Perhaps there scarcely could be distinguished the cries of the people who fell in battle and the yelling of the people who shouted in the circus.” (174)


    Things had declined so far that the public officials whom he classifies as robbers continued to rob the people even after they no longer held office. This has been refined in modern times to the revolving door system of going from elected office to lobbyist or CEO of some big company that conducts business with the government.

    Salvian portrays the barbarians as virtuous people – much more so than his fellow countrymen – nothing like the people they are typically represented as being. Even back then, government knew best and imposed price controls which then as always caused black marketeers to provide for people’s wants and needs. One difference between then and now is that the Romans could not print money. They could debase it, but not print it as virtually all modern states do. They also had no efficient way of spying on the populace or freezing assets which is now routine. This enables us to postpone, but not avert the day of collapse. As everybody seems to be fond of saying, it allows us to “kick the can down the road,” but at some point we will find that the road is a dead end.(snip)

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    Default Re: Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

    and speaking of the road being a dead end ... from the same website ... from ( which has pictures of each of the author's described areas )


    (snip)"It was a particularly grey day in Philadelphia with a dreary overcast and intermittent rain. It seemed fitting for this trek through the slowly decaying landscape leading to my workplace in West Philly. I’ve talked previously about the stretch of highway leading to the 30 Blocks of Squalor. It’s called West Chester Pike (Route 3) and it cuts through Delaware County where I grew up. It cuts through Havertown, Haverford, Drexel Hill, and Upper Darby and eventually spits you out at 69th Street, where I’ve previously detailed the flash mob of savages rampaging through the Sears stealing everything in sight (all caught on surveillance cameras to be shown on a future reality TV show). In a shocking turn of events, Sears decided to later close this retail establishment.

    The 30 minute excursion along West Chester Pike and then the 30 Blocks of Squalor (Chestnut St from 69th St to 39th St) is like traveling through Dante’s nine circles of hell. Every mile leads you deeper and deeper into the abyss. My observations along this route are of a country in a slow methodical steady decline that has been underway for decades and shows no signs of abating.

    The neighborhoods and towns along West Chester Pike were occupied by the rising middle class during the 1950′s, 60′s and 70′s. These towns were where blue collar middle class families built a life and raised their families. The fathers worked in factories, refineries, schools, power plants and thousands of other productive enterprises. Americans made stuff back then. Most wives stayed home and raised the three or four children in the small brick row homes or small detached singles that dotted the landscape. These neighborhoods were entirely white and most were church going. Most of the adults had not graduated college, but they were still able to move up the economic ladder through hard work, saving, and living within their means. Their children were guaranteed an even better life if they studied hard, went to college, and got an office job as an accountant, engineer, marketing executive, or in some other promising profession.

    This progression began to transform into regression in the 1980s and the slow steady descent has picked up speed. There is now a grey pallor that seems to engulf this once thriving corridor. The houses that were built in the 1950s and 1960s and kept up by middle class families that took pride in their neighborhoods have been deteriorating for years. The homes are in disrepair. The bricks have grown dingy from years of pollution buildup and lack of power washing. Porches and awnings are sagging. The woodwork hasn’t seen a paint brush since the 1970s. Trash is strewn in the streets. Gardens are no longer tended to. Lawns are overgrown with weeds. The inhabitants of these neighborhoods either don’t care or don’t have the financial wherewithal to maintain their homes. On the current trajectory, these once proud neighborhoods will eventually resemble the 30 Blocks of Squalor.

    I believe a country and a community will have a lot of what it values most. Our country has a lot of debt, a lot of vehicles, a lot of bombs, a lot of psychotic criminals running our economic and political systems and a lot of willfully ignorant drones – disguised as citizens. As I drove along West Chester Pike I tried to observe what it is we value today. This route is inundated with automobile repair shops, gas stations and auto dealerships. We cannot live without our cars. I can say without a doubt that I saw not one manufacturing facility along this entire route, but if you want your Japanese car fixed, detailed, or waxed, you’ve hit the jackpot.

    We value our cars, purchased with debt or leased, but the roads are crumbling, filled with potholes, traffic lights aren’t timed, and the small towns are too bankrupt to do anything about it. The second most important thing to the zombies that inhabit this wasteland is mass quantities of food. You’ve got donut shops, fast food joints, pizza places, Chinese restaurants, Irish pubs every two blocks, and coffee houses on a mind numbing scale. It is easy to see why we’re the most obese people on earth. There are no farmers markets, produce stands, or even grocery stores. But there are at least six beer distributors. And of course there is one L.A. Fitness Center for the ten people out of ten thousand who want to keep in shape. I expect to see a Space Available sign in front of this place in the not too distant future.

    Besides the general decay of the commercial properties, you can’t miss the fact that every block has at least one vacant commercial property. There are far more For Sale, Space Available, For Rent, and Leasing signs dotting the barren wasteland than there are wedding rings on fingers in West Philly. The vacant buildings are antiquated relics from the 1960s. It’s as if time stopped at the end of the 1970s and no one has invested a dime in this stretch of highway in 30 years. It’s like “The Land that Time Forgot”.

    The only new buildings along this stretch of highway further emphasize what is seemingly important to our society. There are numerous architecturally grand bank branches dominating this highway. There is a beautiful new building housing the Social Security Administration for this area. This is where the obese, depressed and unemployable flock to sign up for the SSDI gravy train. And lastly there are a few medical facilities that are top notch. It seems that banks, government and medicine are doing just fine. But what do they produce?

    I think this is a reflection of why this area has deteriorated over time. Industries that made things left this area and left this country. Small businesses were overwhelmed by mega-corporations who cared only about next quarter earnings. They met these earnings targets, set by Wall Street, by shipping the good paying blue collar jobs that supported these communities overseas. The middle class families living here saw their wages stagnate or decline. Wives were forced into the workforce to just keep their households afloat financially. The family unit suffered, with children raised by strangers or left to fend for themselves.

    This is where the Wall Street maggots stepped in and sold these middle class families on the illusion of faux wealth built on a pyramid of credit card debt, auto loans, and mortgage debt. Who got wealthy? Not the families living in these fading neighborhoods. The bankers got rich and continue to flaunt their wealth by paying themselves obscene levels of compensation, buying off politicians, gutting our economy and opening fancy new outlets to prey upon the downtrodden and ignorant. An economy built upon manufacturing, production, and value added work results in rising wages and a thriving community. An economy built upon debt attracts consumer consumption outlets that add no value and result in declining wages, government dependency and a dying community.

    These once thriving communities have rapidly aged. As the jobs and wages dried up, these communities have become dependent on the government to provide. Social Security payments are now a primary income source for many. The government controlled healthcare industry is thriving as Medicare and Medicaid pay for an increasing proportion of the care in these neighborhoods. After decades of pretending that debt could replace wages and savings, these communities are collapsing due to lack of income, decent paying jobs, capital investment, and common sense. West Chester Pike is well on its way to becoming a future 30 Blocks of Squalor.

    Once you pass through the 69th Street death camp which resembles a scene from Night of the Living Dead, you spill out onto the 30 Blocks of Squalor.

    This is where the circle of hell began. The rotting carcasses that pass for homes on this stretch of squalor were once occupied by the white families that moved to Delaware County along West Chester Pike in the 1950s and 1960s. It is now 90% black and 10% Hispanic. The real unemployment rate exceeds 50%, murder is the number one industry, with drugs a close second.

    As you drive down the 30 Blocks of Squalor you meet the ghost of Squalor future for West Chester Pike. The population along this corridor is ignorant, dependent, and represents the dregs of our society. There is virtually no legal commerce along the squalor. The Asians, Koreans, and whites that attempted to open stores have all been shot down in cold blood. The once proud homes are in shambles. Bags of garbage dot the landscape. Most of the people who live here are parasites on society. Personal responsibility, work ethic, education and marriage are unknown concepts in this community. Even though more than 50% of the students in West Philly drop out of high school and the SAT scores of West Philly High students are lower than whale shit, the bankrupt school district spent $70 million to build a new high school/prison to babysit derelicts and future prison inmates. The windows do not have steel bars yet, as the architect was smart to put all windows at least eight feet above street level.

    The Chestnut Plaza truly represents what is important to this community. This Squalor Center, as opposed to Power Center, includes a video porn store, cash checking/payday loan outlet, smoke shop, donut shop, Laundromat, and liquor store. No need for a wedding ring store or resume writing service. Evidently this community values gorging themselves on fast food, getting high, getting drunk, jerking off to porno, and then having their sheets washed. They wouldn’t want to invest a few hundred dollars of their welfare payments on a washer and dryer, when they can spend it on the Direct TV NBA package. They utilize their 8th grade level education to get payday loans from the check cashing store at 40% interest.

    Our entire society is in a downward social and economic spiral. We are just at different levels of decay (Dante’s circles of hell). At the current pace it won’t be long before I’m writing about the 50 States of Squalor. It is virtually impossible to reverse a decline that has been underway for the last three decades. We sold our souls to Wall Street and chose a debt financed illusion of wealth over productive savings and investment which would have led to real wealth. Our choices are reflected in the continued deterioration and decay along West Chester Pike and the squalor that is West Philly. Grey and decay will carry the day.(snip)
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-27-2012 at 07:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

    Thanks Melonie for sharing.

    Lol it has been the first time I really tried to finish reading a long article like that regarding economics and it wasn't so bad after all to digest! I think that after reading more and more I'll get a hang of all of this and the information won't seem so "over my head" as it would feel. So, learn little by little with patience. Or else I will be one of the "ignorant" and I am not getting any younger so I better start learning more about current economics/political stuff now. Thanks.

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    Default Re: Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

    ^^^ I'm very glad to hear that, Junigirl. Arguably, the 'powers that be' are counting on the fact that very few Americans will actually spend the time and effort ( as you now are ) to investigate economic 'history' and/or present day economic analysis that is different from that put forth by mainstream US media, by official gov't statistics etc. And given the fact that dancers and camgirls have the ability to earn money quickly, but over a relatively short number of years of peak earnings potential, IMHO one of the most important things dancers and camgirls need to learn is how to preserve the 'purchasing power' of the money they have already earned and saved / invested. Thus the example of ancient Rome's currency debasement is arguably very applicable again today !!!

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    Default Re: Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

    Thanks Melonie. You're right, got to save those hard-earned dollars to be prepared for
    Not so nice times ahead, and keep reading the news to be aware of certain trends and avoid being part of whatever gets plowed over.

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    Default Re: Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

    The "Corporate Media" is just as guilty as...... The crooked bankers, and the crooked pols.

    With very few exceptions..... No real analysis of the problems takes place.
    The country has been looted.

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    Default Re: Bread, Circuses, Debasement & Decline - parallels to the Roman Empire

    All I can say about 'corporate media' is that they're sitting at the same Bilderberg group meeting table as the bankers, politicians, and non-media corporate CEO's !

    However, I disagree on your assertion that no real analysis is taking place. I would contend that an in-depth analysis always takes place, just as it did in Ancient Rome. However, then as now, that doesn't mean that the 'powers that be' will seek the same results that the general population is hoping for. Thus 'Bread and Circuses' !

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