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Thread: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

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    Default Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    I don't want to take a cynical stance towards my customers, or even potential dates/partners. But more and more, in my personal and professional life, that's hard to do. Sure, there are assholes and freeloaders online but you deal with that in every service job. That's what I tell myself when I have a particularly trying guy.

    But then you have the respectful, articulate guy who will cheat on his gf or wife every chance he gets, even maxing out his cards for his kinks. In many cases they're turning to online providers because they don't want to end the relationship but seeing someone in person would be too difficult (or require too much effort) or risky. And then there are single guys who complain about not being able to meet someone. Not that they put any effort into dating when paying for a GFE is so much easier. How am I supposed to respect that?

    And it's not just customers. I don't need to give examples because sexist, entitled behavior is everywhere. But ok, one example - have you seen the kind of advice that is passed around the "pick up" community regarding women? It takes objectification to a new low.

    Intellectually, I know not every guy is like this. I know that at least half of my customers are genuinely good guys. And I love my work most days. I don't look at them as just ATMs or manipulate them. But some days I think I would be better off if I just hustled and maximized my time with them. Because one I thing I know for sure is that every one of my regulars used to be someone else's and most of them will move on sooner or later.

    This is more of an issue for me professionally because I'm bi and more emotionally attracted to women. So how do you deal with male sexuality and stay optimistic about them? Do you just do the job and keep your personal opinions out of it?

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    I don't know as much directly about dealing with the men, of course--I'm a DJ so it's the women in the clubs I've been dealing with.* But trust me, it's really fucking easy to lose respect if you aren't careful, if you fall into the trap of judging all of them by the bad examples which are rampant at both ends of the spectrum in this business.

    And I hear you about the PUA bullshit--I despise those swine. But you know what? That shit really works--on the dumb ones, of course--but there are literally untold millions of dumb ones out there. Dumb men who pull that shit, and dumb women who fall for it every time--then bitch about how men are assholes. Well a lot of them are, of course, And a lot of women are bitches. Unfortunately, they are breeding rapidly.

    The key is to find ways and places to meet men and women with brains and creativity. Unfortunately for both the women and the men in the business, those places are not typically the clubs we work in.

    I'd try getting involved more in local cultural affairs, which is far easier in some cities like say Austin Tx. Theatre, art museums, etc. can be very cool and are great ways to meet interesting people who can transcend the asshole/bitch pitfalls.

    *But oh I've seen the men in action at work more than I care to think about. It's like they are a different species sometimes.
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Thank you for the reply. Funny that you mentioned culture. I was going to rant about how a guy assumed I was well-off - and thereby date-worthy - because I mentioned going to an evening event at a museum. He came from an upper-middle class background and of course only affluent people do that kind of thing. He lost interest when I couldn't afford to pay my part of an upscale night out every weekend.

    But you're right about looking for different social circles. I've been swamped with work and family. I was thinking when I posted that my population sample has been rather limited lately, making my feelings even less logical.

    I know that the biz attracts lazy and less intelligent girls too. It's really part of a vicious cycle with lowered expectations all around. I guess my only exposure to them has been some message boards. Which is why I rarely posted until I found SW. There is much less drama and way more professionalism here.
    Last edited by passionflower; 05-30-2012 at 09:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    I dont really have a great answer as I struggle with this sometimes as well - but something I do is I try to read / pay close attention to the mindset of older women (40+) in the sex industry. They tend to have been through the industry long enough to have adapted well mentally to this industry in ways that seem out of reach for me now at least.

    Nina Hartley or Annie Sprinkle are a great examples but real life or online ones are especially helpful. Even if it means just reading their posts more carefully here? That helps me in general to stay grounded.





    Quote Originally Posted by Procrasturbator View Post
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    I lose respect for people individually, not as a group.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    oh lord I've skimmed those pick up forums and couldn't take anymore especially after seeing that the community reduces every girl down to a rating.
    Quote Originally Posted by SweetJulia View Post
    everyone I've fucked who was awful in bed should be forced to have sex with each other so they can all, collectively, figure out why I never called them back.

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    Nothing makes me feel like less of an adult than walking into several other people's apartments and realizing we all own the exact same lamp from K-mart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam38g View Post
    The fantasy sold to women through out history that a man will come along & rescue us is a lie.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    I think its best to just do the job, look at them as robot ATMs and not human. It helps a lot.

    Also, knowing not everyone is the same either. I do get how this job can do it to you. I choose to stay optimistic.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    I lose respect for people individually, not as a group.
    That has been my policy too. If it wasn't I wouldn't be struggling with this. And I'm not new to the biz so it's not like I'm going through culture shock.

    I think it's a phase I'll get over. I'm too much of a glass half-full type.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Completely entitled behavior is everywhere..Sadly I feel even I feel entitled sometimes bc of all the crap Ive been thro..from a diff angle... even i feel entitled to be spoiled, to be appreciated for all the good things i possess..I feel entitled to be respected no matter what profession I have..I feel entitled to be happy despite the fact that every damn body seems to want to judge me for my profession..I feel entitled at times to act like those types of people dont exist or tell them to fuck off....I know Im crucifying myself here..But I think in one way or another everyone feels entitlement..

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Also in order to dance I separate worlds and cater to what I have to at work and then outside of work Im the "real me" thats how I deal with the job.. I try to remind myself that not all men r all bad disrespectful pigs...

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post
    Thank you for the reply. Funny that you mentioned culture. I was going to rant about how a guy assumed I was well-off - and thereby date-worthy - because I mentioned going to an evening event at a museum. He came from an upper-middle class background and of course only affluent people do that kind of thing. He lost interest when I couldn't afford to pay my part of an upscale night out every weekend.
    What the hell? While I really do think it's time to dispense with the obligatory, atavistic 'the guys must always pay, because they have a dick and not a pussy' dating mentality--if he was well-off and had genuine affection for you, he ought to have been glad to pay your share too sometimes--or maybe suggest alternate activities that people with some class and cultural awareness can appreciate. Wealth emphatically does NOT equate true class...

    Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post
    But you're right about looking for different social circles. I've been swamped with work and family. I was thinking when I posted that my population sample has been rather limited lately, making my feelings even less logical.

    I know that the biz attracts lazy and less intelligent girls too. It's really part of a vicious cycle with lowered expectations all around. I guess my only exposure to them has been some message boards. Which is why I rarely posted until I found SW. There is much less drama and way more professionalism here.
    Well there is a little drama now and then. But no dressing room brawls at least.

    This business does not reward intellectual ability or talent--other than dancing ability on the part of the women and verbal skills on the part of the DJ anyway. In fact it's a detriment more often than not, I have found. Having brains, talent, and integrity--and sticking in the business for more than a few years--will definitely lead to cynicism and misanthropy/misogyny if one isn't careful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    I think its best to just do the job, look at them as robot ATMs and not human. It helps a lot.
    Maybe I should try this approach more often with the whacked-out women I have to deal with. It's been getting to me recently--but it's really, really bad in this last club.


    Quote Originally Posted by shift_6x View Post
    Completely entitled behavior is everywhere..Sadly I feel even I feel entitled sometimes bc of all the crap Ive been thro..from a diff angle... even i feel entitled to be spoiled, to be appreciated for all the good things i possess..I feel entitled to be respected no matter what profession I have..I feel entitled to be happy despite the fact that every damn body seems to want to judge me for my profession..I feel entitled at times to act like those types of people dont exist or tell them to fuck off....I know Im crucifying myself here..But I think in one way or another everyone feels entitlement..
    I agree to a large extent with what you are saying. But I have worked every imaginable job and lived in every imaginable type of city or town--and I have never seen anything remotely close to the entitlement issues that seem to run rampant in the clubs, on the part of women and men alike. Sometimes it's actually really funny, but more often it's just irritating as all hell.
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    This OP strikes a particular chord right now because of the BS I've been talking about with a bunch of female exes that I'm still friends with. Believe me OP - though I don't think I need to tell you - it goes both ways; it's not just men, lol. I listen to Girl A talk about the needy, manipulative behavior of her current BF, and I try to give good advice and be supportive. But it's hard not to point out that half or more of what she's bitching about, she's done too. A LOT. I've tried pointing it out to her - NOT effective. Girl B is going through hell right now with a cheating asshole, and crying her eyes out and blah blah - and COMPLETELY OVERLOOKING THE PART WHERE SHE'S A CHEATER TOO. Grrrr.

    So many things get put the filter of personal viewpoint and justification based on personal experience, that people forget - or ignore - that other people have gone through things in their lives too and it affects their choices, too. Pot/kettle situations are getting worse and worse. Annoying.

    No comments on the PUA's - not worth the effort.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post
    I don't want to take a cynical stance towards my customers, or even potential dates/partners. But more and more, in my personal and professional life, that's hard to do. Sure, there are assholes and freeloaders online but you deal with that in every service job. That's what I tell myself when I have a particularly trying guy.

    But then you have the respectful, articulate guy who will cheat on his gf or wife every chance he gets, even maxing out his cards for his kinks. In many cases they're turning to online providers because they don't want to end the relationship but seeing someone in person would be too difficult (or require too much effort) or risky. And then there are single guys who complain about not being able to meet someone. Not that they put any effort into dating when paying for a GFE is so much easier. How am I supposed to respect that?

    And it's not just customers. I don't need to give examples because sexist, entitled behavior is everywhere. But ok, one example - have you seen the kind of advice that is passed around the "pick up" community regarding women? It takes objectification to a new low.

    Intellectually, I know not every guy is like this. I know that at least half of my customers are genuinely good guys. And I love my work most days. I don't look at them as just ATMs or manipulate them. But some days I think I would be better off if I just hustled and maximized my time with them. Because one I thing I know for sure is that every one of my regulars used to be someone else's and most of them will move on sooner or later.

    This is more of an issue for me professionally because I'm bi and more emotionally attracted to women. So how do you deal with male sexuality and stay optimistic about them? Do you just do the job and keep your personal opinions out of it?

    Its actually really really simplistic ..Never judge a customer ..Why would you ? You say you are Bi and emotionally attracted to Women ..So who really cares ??When I see questioning like this , I always think its time to take a break . Take a month off , do something that turns you on ( I dont mean physically ) ..But this is an emotional Role , and it needs Total commitment , If you start thinking about it too much you simply will NEVER maximise your income .

    This is an absolute case of overthinking ..Because , Its NOT YOUR PROBLEM . Who really cares ? But , once you have your head around the Gig , and are committed to the Goal ..if you Resent your own customer to the point of " Hate " the only person you will ever hate is yourself ..And you dont want a relationship with a man . So why any concern ??

    Men are Hunters , and men will always seek multiple partners either directly or indirectly , I think this is beyond doubt and proven . The concept of Monogomy is relatively " new " on both sides and is really an unattainable ideal . Women run with the emotional , it always ends up back here ..They tell you straight " Your NOT going to F*CK me " and the next moment they are screaming with desire , and at the end of a " huge " session they want to have an indepth conversation about " How do you really feel about me " ??

    Look its really really really Simple you cant beat the Biological factor ..We are all animals no matter what , Male and female . Women have a huge sex drive also and from a biological point any women ( unemotioinally Scared ) can out last ANY man . The industry relies on the Sexuality of the Male ..Surely you understood the gig when you started ?? Every role ..Business , profession , has a downside , nothing is easy .

    But really if you are questioning the paying customer , and worried about issues like this ..Either Quit the Gig , or take a month out to consider . Because YOUR income is based on the Sexuality of the Male ..Dont question it .. Just build on those regulars , for as you correctly point out , transition is part og the Gig . Handling the emotional side , and doing a great job ..Is your total business .
    Enjoy ... and Progress , Its all in the name of personal enjoyment

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post
    It takes objectification to a new low.... I don't look at them as just ATMs or manipulate them. But some days I think I would be better off if I just hustled and maximized my time with them.
    It is quite difficult to understand the point you are making without reference to any specific examples from your personal experiences. Objectification is synonymous with the sex industry. However, I think it has less to do with you being bisexual. Regardless of their sexual preference, in this industry all women experience the same set of challenges you mentioned in one way or another.
    Last edited by Think!; 05-31-2012 at 05:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    It's funny, I was thinking about this thread last night when I was at the club I worked before last--and saw some guys acting like total fucking idiots.

    Again and again it has hit me, in my years in the clubs, watching these guys who seem to check their brains at the door. I am not kidding when I say it's like they are a different species of animal.

    The fact that the women in the industry (and frequently outside too) can be every bit as bad as the guys could be irrelevant to the OP, though. Sometimes we just need to vent a little without hearing the inevitable 'Yeah but...' I belong to a couple Facebook groups for stripclub DJs, and we will often go on at length with these venting threads about the crazy women we have to deal with. Sometimes it's therapeutic to just unleash the frustration without having to look at the other side of the coin every damned time.

    Passionflower, it might be interesting to post the same thread in Ladies Only, if you want to have more of a venting type thing.
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    OP....I think that you have to remind yourself that you are in an environment that houses an inordinate amount of assholes, losers, douchebags and other social pariah. The stripclub customers as a whole dont represent the general population as a whole.

    You are kind of like a prison guard....you deal with the dregs of society all day or night so the rest of us dont have to. Its a valuable service. But when you leave work....leave it. Hang out in different circles.

    As for the PUAs you run into when you are out ....remember that for reasonalbly intelligent girls, they are to be laughed at and ignored.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    ^Truth.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post
    He lost interest when I couldn't afford to pay my part of an upscale night out every weekend.
    .
    Wait what? Umm you sound way too sweet and people will take advantage of that. I have never paid to go out with a guy. Never saw the need to because it's just as easy to go out alone and usually get in places for free. I recall guys tried to do the hey you pay and I just acted busy. Upper middle class and he needs you to "chip in" for an outing with him? I don't think this works on most women he tries to date , don't think a for a moment that every woman this man dates is dying to pay to be in his company. He just felt if he acted like this was the norm , you'd buy into it. Maybe he had issues with his father buying things for this mother and felt " I will never be like dad". Who knows but gentlemen don't behave in this manner. Sounds more like upper middle trash to me.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    I am lucky because both my father and grandfather are upstanding devoted men so I saw that. My brother is like that too and so are my male relatives. So I knew good guys were out there.

    However at the clubs men seemed to think they had the right to attack women and I too have seen the most despicable behavior. I think to some extent it's because these men think they have the right to do this for a variety of reasons, like "hey let's make the pretty girl cry" (often men who were always rejected and deep down hated women)to the guys who assumed stripping=whores and of course whores don't deserve respect. I know personally I have seen a big difference from men who knew I was a stripper to men who didn't. Maybe these guys would have been assholes to begin with who knows.

    Oddly I am seeing this behavior again with online dating and I suspect part of it is the reasons I mentioned (obviously not the stripper as a whore mentality). In other words, many of the rejections who probably attack pretty women in the clubs now has the online venue to do it.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Who says I started off with any. I don't give respect to any1 male or female till they have personally earned it from me. I do have a certain level of respect for my regulars (some of which I even consider as almost like personal friends of mine) as I don't deal with scumbags regularly & avoid those, but most custies are a mark I expect to think nothing more of then the total of the tip they leave me if I don't 4get them all together.

    Anyhow most my bffs & friends in life happen to be guys soo even though some or are losers, cheap ass creeps, rude or whatnot the customers do not define how I view all guys. I honest don't have a high opinion of most men or women (people in general), but stripping hasn't changed that any.

    Yes there are times I get tired of men hitting on me so when a guy outside of the strip club tries I'm more likely to scare him away for not having money in hand to make the annoyance of it all up to me, but hey that what they get for not reading the signs that off the clock I know I'm not making to work them up any so if they dare not pick up on my lack of interest then that's on them.

    PS what upscale club doesn't give hot women free entry??? I wouldn't go just for that reason, but if I had a date that could afford in & didn't offer to cover me as well either I would say hell to the no or I would just flirt with some1 else in line as I know some1 else will get me in no problem. You don't work in this business to not get vip treatment from those you go out with or to go clubbing at places & not get the benefits that come with having hotness.
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    I agree to a large extent with what you are saying. But I have worked every imaginable job and lived in every imaginable type of city or town--and I have never seen anything remotely close to the entitlement issues that seem to run rampant in the clubs, on the part of women and men alike. Sometimes it's actually really funny, but more often it's just irritating as all hell.
    Yea its irritating alright..Like tonight for ex..there were 3 customers that tipped the whole night..Since everyone felt entitled to sit for free..I felt entitled to keep my coverup on and ignore everyone except my good tipping customers..Heyy if they r entitled to be freeloaders I am entitled to ignore them. If me being friendly wouldve made me money I wouldve gladly gone that route..But it didnt matter people werent budging w their wallets..

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    ^^^Yeah it always strikes me as funny in a really weird way when these guys come up to the booth sometimes 'Is she going to take off her top?' Or in the nude bars it's the bottom. I never notice or care, nor have I ever felt the slightest bit of sympathy or given them much of an answer.

    Go tip her and see, you fools!

    Hell even if I kinda like a girl I'm working with (danger! lol), I still don't notice. I've worked with several hundred dancers in two big nude clubs for the last 6 years and I have no idea what the vast majority of their kitties look like. I figure they are up there dancing provocatively in tiny little scraps of fabric, and I've seen plenty of it before, it's not a big deal whether or not the nipples or labia are out there or not.
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    ^^^Yeah it always strikes me as funny in a really weird way when these guys come up to the booth sometimes 'Is she going to take off her top?' Or in the nude bars it's the bottom. I never notice or care, nor have I ever felt the slightest bit of sympathy or given them much of an answer.

    Go tip her and see, you fools!

    Hell even if I kinda like a girl I'm working with (danger! lol), I still don't notice. I've worked with several hundred dancers in two big nude clubs for the last 6 years and I have no idea what the vast majority of their kitties look like. I figure they are up there dancing provocatively in tiny little scraps of fabric, and I've seen plenty of it before, it's not a big deal whether or not the nipples or labia are out there or not.
    I def hear u...I really find it hilarious how the same guys who wont even tip me a dollar r the ones who want to complain to management that I am not taking my coverup off...Fuck them...I think they just try to make me look bad bc they know i think too much of myself and want to stay covered up..Once again fuck them...I truly appreciate my customers and the few there who actually tip and appreciate the time energy etc that we put into this job.

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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Shift and DJ you both reminded me of something from years ago. I was working at this one bar full of freeloaders. The owner thought it was a great idea to have free admission and no drink minimum. You can imagine what happened, lots of these men came on, would sit at stage and not tip. So dancers generally wouldn't take off their top. The men would complain saying that they came to a topless bar they want to see tits (classy these guys were). Anyway the DJ would tell these guys that unless they were tipping they weren't going to trip. The men got mad, because they thought we were paid by the club. What ended up happening is the guys left. Screw these men. I'm willing to bet these are the same men who can't get women and resent it.

  35. #25
    Banned zeke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Losing respect for men. How do you deal?

    Men are idiots - dont know how all girls arent lez.

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