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Thread: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

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    Default I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    I just had some lovely professional photos done, which are stunning. I told the photographer beforehand exactly what they were going to be used for, i.e. promoting my adult profiles, we used ways of lighting/ posing and editing etc to deliberatly disguise me, or shade out identifiable features etc, because of privacy. I paid £280 and got 21 images on disk. I've only used 2 so far and was planning to rotate them with the others over time. I wasn't planning on using those pics anywhere else, even facebook/ show to friends etc. Anyway, tog asks me if he can use a few of my images on his facebook and website as promotion, and I say sure, but please not any with my face in, or the ones i paid for, as i don't want them showing up in google similar images, and obviously i don't wan't the same ones i'm using on say aw, showing up on someone's website, where i could be easily identified (i'm also all over this tog's website from previous tfp shoots i've done with him). I answered him about using my pics yesterday, and to be fair he could have done it before he saw my answer, but i just looked and he's got 8 of the 21 pics i paid for up on his site, and most with my face in
    ?
    I don't know why i feel sad about this rather than angry, but i do. I've had to take my main camsite profile pic down because that's one of the ones he's got up there, and that was my fave pic of all

    I know generally togs have rights over their own work, but what if i've paid for them? Can he just use what he likes? It basically means I've wasted my money if so because i can't use those pics now. I'm very careful about face pics and what i allow to end up in google/ website cache's. I feel so dumb not anticipating this could happen beforehand.. i assumed since we'd talked so thoroughly about privacy, and creative ways to disguise me that it would be obvious i wouldn't want him using such pics. I'm not naked in any of them btw, just boudoir stuff.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Did you sign model release ? He will need this to use your pics - or the rights of the pics to him ? I'm pretty sure he would need these to use your pics for his own doing without your consent.....

    Mail him and ask him to take them down or blur your face , perhaps he will comply ? Sometimes men just don't think and worse still, they don't listen !

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Have you asked him about it yet or asked him to take them down?

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Well I replied to him yesterday when i saw his message on facebook about it. Then today I spotted the pics on his website so i've emailed and text him. I'm hoping i'm worrying over nothing and he'll take those ones down as apart from anything he's someone i'm on friendly terms with and have done tons of tfp shoots for before. Just needed to vent because ffs if i'm gonna just let him use any old pics, i'd just do another tfp wouldn't i? not bloomin pay for them!, and get an idea if there's anything i can do if he comes back and says well i own the copyright hun so really i can use those pics if i want...

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    he technically has the rights to do what he wishes with any images he takes. I was in photography and had lots of experience with photographers, even if you as the model paid for it and plan to use it. If he REALLY wanted as long as he didnt sign over the rights to you, he could actually resell them although that generally doesn't happen. At least to my knowledge that was how it was a few years ago (my photography teacher used to take pictures of people to be used for promotion but the photo still belonged to her, they couldnt use it for any other promotion without her consent.)

    be patient and hopefully he'll be understanding. i agree whole-heartedly it sucks to not be able to use the shots you rightfully paid to use, best wishes hun

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    ^ are you sure that's the case for photos of an adult nature ? I mean how can he legally have them up without having the doccuments that everyone else need for putting such pics on a site - ie .. I.d , model releases etc .... ? I don't have a clue myself, so I'm not being critical , just curious !

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    I understand your frustrations, but I have a feeling if you ask him to take them down or blur your face out , then he will, what has he got to lose by listening to you - nothing really , except your beautiful face of course ! He has a good customer and friend to lose by ignoring you ----- Although I love your face, I would take your friendship and custom primarily ! I think it's been a error in communication on his part - Men are really good at selective hearing ! They don't even know they're doing it !

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    I hope so hun, i really do because i love those pics. Haha don't know if you saw the one i had up but it's seriously the best pic i've ever had taken of me. Gutted if he doesn't take it down and i can't use it myself because of that. Will ring him tomorrow. There were no model releases/ contracts etc, we just discussed what i wanted, did the shoot, paid, and i got the images after 2 weeks of waiting on edge while they were edited etc. Been so looking forward to having them, and it was a lot of money to pay x

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    I think while he might own the rights - without the model releases, there's not a whole lot he can do with them . I saw your msn pic - I don't know if that was from the collection or not , but your pics always look good ! Let us know how you get on . x

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    The photographer has the rights to the photos. You can offer to pay a bigger $$ for exclusive use and private license if he'll go for that. But other than that, that's what you have to work with unless he's understanding - you're part of his portfolio now and he'll use and show off that work.







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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    I feel so stupid i didn't know this before. I mean how idiotic to pay for photos that just anyone can use. Just friggin stick to tfp, and for anything you want to use on adult sites/ to do with adult stuff, don't use a photographer at all! Ugh.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by HaydenBlue View Post
    The photographer has the rights to the photos. You can offer to pay a bigger $$ for exclusive use and private license if he'll go for that. But other than that, that's what you have to work with unless he's understanding - you're part of his portfolio now and he'll use and show off that work.
    He has got over 300 other pics to choose from tho.. i only bought 20 of them!

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Yeah His work. His portfolio.







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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    It boils down to what was in the contract. Photographers automatically own copyright and in most countries can use the images in their folio no matter whether a model release was signed or not. A model release allows them to use your "likeness" which in short alllows them to sell, license, or use the images for commercial (including promoting their photography business). If you had a contract saying you either own the images or the photographer agrees to the limitations that you asked then you do have a legal ground to stand on.
    Having said that, going the legal route is expensive, stressful, has no gurantee, takes a long time, and all the rest. In reality your only options is to explain your fears to the photographer and hope they are decent enough to do as you ask (maybe you can do another shoot with them specifically for their folio?). Or not use the images for what you intended.
    Unfortunately unless you want to go into a long expensive legal battle you are at the mercy of the photographers decency (or lack of).

    On the plus side you won't be recommending them to anyone, so you and everyone you know won't be caught out again. Hopefully they will realise there is a loss of potential income and do the right thing.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    If the photo's are adult in nature or convey sexuality he indeed does need a model release plus proof of age. These photo's were not taken in public where they may be considered, "public" domain.

    He is your employee. You hired him to work for you. The contractual agreement be it in writing or not (implied) is that you contracted the individual to perform work of a sensitive nature for you, specifically to disguise your appearance. I dare find any court of law in the world outside of a Communist country that allows any photographer to use any photo of his choosing for his portfolio without the perfmission of the person who contracted the work to be done to begin with.

    I have two friends who are photographers and I know neither of them would ever use someones image without their approval. They talk about the possibility of law suits and they talk about the disappointments they have encountered when not being able to display all of their work.

    Small claims court is an affordable and quick route.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Quite honestly, if I were serious about this (camming/adult) business, I would trash and thrash this mans reputation in front of Reuters and stomp all over him as my launching pad.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    The Photographer May Own It, But May Not Use It – Owning the negative or photo does not automatically grant you the rights to use, publish, or profit from it. Example, you may take a photograph of a national monument, but you may not use it in a calendar for profit. Same rules apply for taking pictures of people. In these cases, any commercial use would require some form of Model or Property Release.

    If It’s Not Copyrighted, It’s Still Copyrighted – In the past; all materials must be officially copyrighted before the owner could claim its exclusive rights. However, under the International Berne Convention, almost every privately created artistic work after April 1st, 1989 is automatically copyrighted and protected.

    In general, you should never take or copy pictures from other sources; all artworks are protected by default on an international scale. However, if you reside in the United States, you should serious consider copyright your own intellectual property. Reason? When the United States joined the Berne Convention in 1998, it continued to make statutory damages only applicable for registered works.

    It’s Still a Violation Even If You Don’t Profit From It – Commercial use for the purpose of trade and profit is not the only criteria in determining false use. Even if you don’t charge for your images, your distribution may damage the value of the original photo.

    Distinguish Between Commercial and Editorial Use – In most countries you may publish any photography (not obscene) for newsworthy, editorial or journalistic purposes. For such occasions, you as a photographer are protected by freedom of press, or “fair use”.

    To elaborate on “fair user” further, the "fair use" exemption to (U.S.) copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. However, such practice should never harm the commercial value of the work.

    When your photography subjects are people, you should take their “rights of publicity” into consideration. Editorial usage however is not classified as personal or commercial beneficial usage.

    Photo Usage on the Web – Private individual may post pictures on the web without a formal model release. However such photos may not be construed as any form of commercial advertisement. Certain model releases also have restrictions on permitted distribution channel and media. It’s always best practice to get your self covered in writing.

    -----------

    He MUST specify in writing that his intent is to use your image as part of his portfolio as a private individual. He must also have specified in writing that your image would be used on the internet for promotional purposes i.e. his portfolio.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Here is a link I found for you. Ultimately only you know the strength of your own case, but from what I am reading, not only is he violating a FEW laws but you are entitled to financial reimbursement for each day he has your image on his site.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    WOW! Girl that is some serious research. Thank you! That's just the sort of thing I needed to know in case I speak to him tomorrow and he does decide to be arsey about it. I'm pissed that he used those specific images already, either without waiting for my answer, or just plain going against me if he already read it. He also put one up where I am just covering my nipples (only shows waist up), does that count as adult?

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    My advice to you would be to print out the laws if you are meeting him in person, this way you can present them to him in person and you can now prove he is aware of the facts. Also, be it in person or even if you are only contacting him via the internet, prepare a writ or request for him to cease using your images. If you e-mail them make sure you check the box which enables you to be notified that it was received. SNAIL MAIL a letter of cease and desist to show receipt (sign for it if you have to) and then, for the meeting in person, validate your parking ticket.

    Good luck!

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    ^^^there's some great copywrite info posted above, where it's problematic in your case is in regards to WHOM owns the copywrite. As emstar has already stated, the photographer owns the copywrite, not you as the subject of the pictures. As such, the Bernes Convention applies to your photographer, not you, unless you have a written contract that states otherwise. To put it another way, the picture is the product subject to copywrite, not your likeness within it. The photographer as the creator of the product owns the copywrite.

    Seriously, trying talking to him. Going in guns blazing isn't going to accomplish anything, not when you don't have a legal expectation that your photos will be exclusive to your use.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    I'm taking you with me! haha

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    I'd say a hand bra counts as adult - I'd expect a webmaster to have I/d and model release for models in such poses. If that wasn't the case - couldn't people bypass the paedo laws, by signing up as a tog , and then doing what the hell they wanted ? I understand Suzie doesn't own the copyright, but I do not understand how he can put adult nature pics on a site with no releases or id ... 2257 ? If that's a loop hole, it's a pretty serious one !

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by loveshooks View Post
    ^^^there's some great copywrite info posted above, where it's problematic in your case is in regards to WHOM owns the copywrite. As emstar has already stated, the photographer owns the copywrite, not you as the subject of the pictures. As such, the Bernes Convention applies to your photographer, not you, unless you have a written contract that states otherwise. To put it another way, the picture is the product subject to copywrite, not your likeness within it. The photographer as the creator of the product owns the copywrite.

    Seriously, trying talking to him. Going in guns blazing isn't going to accomplish anything, not when you don't have a legal expectation that your photos will be exclusive to your use.

    I disagree. She went in clearly stating that these images could be damaging to her reputation which was the purpose of disguising her identity. She also posed for adult oriented photo's which requires a specific release. He also uploaded her photo's for commercial use i.e. advertising his work as a photographer which is not newsworthy, editorial in nature or for journalistic purposes, it is intended for profit.

    But you're right in saying a benign approach to start is always the best way to start. I was under the impression she had already contacted him and either he was ignoring her/not responding or not being cooperative.
    Last edited by cvarga; 06-16-2012 at 09:17 PM.

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    Default Re: I'm so upset! Photos. Anyone up on copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by ukmissy View Post
    I'd say a hand bra counts as adult - I'd expect a webmaster to have I/d and model release for models in such poses. If that wasn't the case - couldn't people bypass the paedo laws, by signing up as a tog , and then doing what the hell they wanted ? I understand Suzie doesn't own the copyright, but I do not understand how he can put adult nature pics on a site with no releases or id ... 2257 ? If that's a loop hole, it's a pretty serious one !
    Well yeah, think about it though. All those happy housewives posing for glamor shots for their husbands. If anyone in their right mind thinks the photographer has the right to reuse those photos I'd challenge you to take on millions of husbands world wide lol

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