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Thread: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

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    Default Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    I thought there must be one here, but I searched. There isn't.

    It's the internet. Certain liberties get taken with spelling, sentence structure - hell; with language in general. Fine. But C'mon. There are some that are just plain wrong. Okay - even the best of us use the wrong there/their/they're from time to time. Or mix up our to/too's. And typos happen - we get that. But really...

    Break - to break something as in make it broken. Or to take a break from work. Or to eat a KitKat. Whatever. It ISN'T, however...
    BRAKE - yo apply the brakes, to slow down. M'kay?

    Loose - opposite of tight. Need we say more? What it is NOT, is...
    LOSE. To fail to win. And the present tense is "losing", not "loosing", which is what you would do if you set all the animals in the zoo free.

    Ladder. It's a thing you climb up, be it to change a light bulb or the corporate one. It's a word that is completely unrelated to...
    LATTER. Recent, last, as distinguished from former. I don't even know how these two get mixed up in print, I really don't.

    Used. This one isn't bad except in the phrase "like things used to be", which is where I"m bitching. Because I see it all the time as...
    Words that don't even fucking exist. Uset. Youst. And some permutations that are just plain baffling. It's USED. Same word that means not-new. That's what you put in that sentence. Or at least that's the word we used to use until people starting using something else. See what I did there?

    Where/wear/ware. One implies position, one implies clothing or use, and one means stuff. Learn which is which, please.

    So - whatcha' got folks? Dump it here. Official grammar nazi/pet language usage peeves thread. And go easy on the 50 Shades references, unless you intend to just cut & paste the entire clusterfuck that people insist on calling a book in here.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Yore Knot going too teh Interwebz mulch at awl.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    "mute point" "could care less" arrrgh.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    lol mute point

    hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form


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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    I misuse the "could care less" / "could not care less" phrase all the time, lol. It's a lazy local colloquialism that I learned young and never quite got out of my head.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    I fucking love semicolons, but as someone who only believes in using them "creatively" in poetry, I must ask the logic behind your use of the one in the first line of your second paragraph. My understanding of them is that are used in complex lists and to join two clauses that could otherwise stand independently. I usually just try to ignore when people use them in other ways unless I'm editing someone's writing, but since this is a grammar thread, I must ask.

    Furthermore, I loathe the many popular permutations of "definitely." You "defiantly" agree, huh? Well, okay. And while we're on the subject, "loath" is an adjective and "loathe" is a verb.

    Comma splices make me a sad panda.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    I am 31 and I still mess up my than/then. It is embarrassing. I always second guess myself when using them.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Sell/sale.
    Chicks saying "how do I sale my panties?"

    And this one drives me up a wall- when people say "can" when they mean "can't", "do" when they mean "don't", etc. And it changes the meaning of the sentence! To the opposite!

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    I am driven nuts by "there" 'their" and "they're". Ok I get writing the wrong thing at times. I know a few times when I was in a hurry I put the wrong word myself. However some people keep doing this. There is a post from someone who apparently owns an entertainment agency and they keep writing the wrong word. I would never work for someone who writes as horrible as that person did.

    However post after post of misspelled words makes me think someone is uneducated. I don't meet guys who write this way on dating sites.

    I will admit sometimes I write couldn't care less/could care less wrong along with then/than and to/too.
    Last edited by Kellydancer; 08-06-2012 at 12:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    i iz all reddy gud at grammar, yo.

    srsly though, it's the fuckin internet. actually, it's a fuckin stripper forum on the fuckin internet. relax. there is a time and a place to be a pretentious, condescending cunt about grammar; this is not it.

    where da boobiez at?
    Last edited by Athenathefabulous; 08-06-2012 at 12:31 PM.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Lol. Awww man, I think I've made just about every error listed in this thread I wish there was some sort of external factor I could blame for this, but realistically it all comes down to the fact that I'm pretty stupid.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    i iz all reddy gud at grammar, yo.

    srsly though, it's the fuckin internet. actually, it's a fuckin stripper forum on the fuckin internet. relax. there is a time and a place to be a pretentious, condescending cunt about grammar; this is not it.

    where da boobiez at?
    Wow. Nobody has been a "condescending cunt" in this thread. There are tons of threads unrelated to stripping, particularly in the lounge. Almost Jaded is a writer, as am I and others on this board. People who write often either for money or pleasure (or both) have to understand some particularly annoying grammatical nuances, at least if they want to write well. Once those rules are committed to memory, grammar mistakes stand out as though they're written in red ink and highlighted. Sure, some people can be rude about their command of grammar and language, but for many, knowing as many otherwise useless grammar rules as they do is a rare point of commiseration. My friend who also writes copy texted me just last night ashamed that he was drunk and found a girl he was attracted to, but after six hours of writing horribly boring content, all he could focus on was how she kept misusing lie and lay and he had come to the conclusion that he needed professional help to get over his neurosis. Sure, I get that you don't give a fuck about that, but that doesn't mean you need to shut down the conversation, particularly when yours is the only rude post thus far.


    Edit: Apparently others think I shouldn't take your post as rude, so perhaps they're right. I just don't see the difference between talking about any other off-topic things and grammatical pet peeves, especially since AJ's post seemed tongue-in-cheek rather than know-it-all.
    Last edited by tuesdaymarie; 08-06-2012 at 08:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyButter View Post
    Lol. Awww man, I think I've made just about every error listed in this thread I wish there was some sort of external factor I could blame for this, but realistically it all comes down to the fact that I'm pretty stupid.
    I thought I had great grammar, until I began writing professionally. The English language is infuriatingly complex. I think people who study it for too long crack, almost without fail. One example of this would be a writing competition I read about recently in which writers were to submit the same block of text twice with only the punctuation changed to create two totally different meanings. I also had an hour or more discussion with my poetry professor last year about whether poetry was "allowed" to misuse grammar. I had to go home and drink a lot because I really felt like I should not care.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    LMAO - so true.

    Athena - love ya' and all, but I even clarified that in the OP. This is vBoard. This is the interwebz. I get that; we all get that. But sometimes shit just gets... Well - I posted this after reading three threads in a row with the same obviously-not-a-typo horrible misuse of a word, followed by another thread in which the dreaded "ladder" for "latter" reared it's head. I couldn't take it anymore. So I started this thread for us to vent in when we get to that point (if you're the type to get to that point).

    Kelly - you mean horribly, right?

    Tuesday - you get it. And semicolons are my bitch. I abuse the fuck out of 'em because I can. They're the writers slave, to be used and abused because they're flexible like that and they LIKE it. In the instance in question, it was used just to make a dramatic pause. When I'm in a chat room or posting on a board, I tend to write like I talk; so sometimes the punctuation is a little odd because I'll punctuate it to indicate how it was spoken in my head. This means I comma splice a lot, I will overuse dashes and parentheses, and semicolons are often used to make a full stop short of a separate sentence - such as the one in question. Call it a stylistic thing, lol. Grammatically correct - probably not. Grammatically incorrect - well, actually not so much. Depends on just how technical you want to be.

    So maybe I titled the thread wrong. Maybe instead of "Grammar Nazi" thread, it should be the "vent about posts that show a complete disdain for the concept of knowing your own language" thread or something along that line.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    "should of", "would of", instead of should have, would have. Infuriating. :-/
    Quote Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707 View Post
    What I DO have issues with, is that this was a couple of years ago And Judas is still in the freezer.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Yes, horribly, lol. I will admit that we all make mistakes, but some people I truly can't understand their (not there, lol)posts. I know at times I will omit punctuation that should be there or add it when it is not needed.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuesdaymarie View Post
    Wow. Nobody has been a "condescending cunt" in this thread.
    I don't think Athena was intending to be intentionally rude or confrontational with anyone here. She was being direct in pointing out the absurdity of getting confrontational about a language that press ganged other languages into service, or left them bludgeoned in dark alleys for convenient turns of phrase.

    Athena,
    Your spending to much time with ex-pats and forgetting that feminists here go drooling, whites of the eyes, bat shit crazy at the utterance of the word "cunt". Not in the "Your my friends despite all your failures" use of "cunt" amongst the common wealthers and euro trash.....

    Igeddedit.
    Last edited by ArmySGT.; 08-06-2012 at 01:36 PM. Reason: turn of phrase

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Grammar Nazi threads make me a sad panda.

    I’ve spent huge swaths of my career in this endless battle to disabuse writers, linguists, translators, and other language folk – often young, inexperienced ones – of the notion that grammar is a Holy Grail that must be protected, like some 18th-century virgin’s honor. This is often the result of unfortunate intellectual violence done to young students by badly trained teachers with some deeply seated conflicts of their own.

    Language is a deeply human instinct. We all weave language like spiders weave webs – instinctually, flawlessly, brilliantly. We all do this from a young age, in all languages and cultures, and without formal training of any kind.

    Grammar is an arbitrary set of rules developed by people like me to standardize how we communicate through the written word. The crucial idea here is “communicate.” If you understand the meaning of what a writer intends – irrespective of the grammar – then they have succeeded in communicating.

    If a person insists on bitching, pissing and moaning about certain people ignoring the arbitrary rules, then that tells us something about that person. It screams “can’t see the forest for the trees.” I’m sorry to be so blunt, and I mean nothing personal with respect to AJ or tuesdaymarie, but this phenomenon has been studied by linguists and that research suggests that writers who get distracted by the arbitrary rules are not yet sophisticated writers. It’s like musicians getting distracted and bogged down by the individual notes and not seeing the whole musical piece. The research actually points out that it’s young and inexperienced writers who do this. They are behaving just like beginning musicians, all trying to get the notes right, not yet able to master the music.

    Such writers typically have a lot to learn about how language serves ideas and not the other way around.

    And yes, I know all about how punctuation changes meaning, how inadvertent errors can derail ideas and how standards serve a greater good. After all, I consult on dictionaries myself, have published dozens of books, speak five languages can read three more and am considered one of the greatest living linguists of Russian. So there, I said it!

    But grammar rules are in every important way totally arbitrary. They change constantly and it’s the truly creative writers who push those envelopes and redefine the boundaries. Rap and R&B are among the most beautiful examples of this creative destruction.

    And of course real linguists just love grammatical variation. Language use is a profoundly personal marker. Value what it tells you about people and how they choose to express themselves. You will learn new things, I promise.

    But above all please understand that there is no virtue in getting bogged down slapping the wrists of people who do not follow arbitrary written conventions. It’s unseemly, wrongheaded and discouraging.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    "Shear luck". :-(
    Quote Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707 View Post
    What I DO have issues with, is that this was a couple of years ago And Judas is still in the freezer.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    I know my grammar is far from perfect, I use a lot of run on sentences and don't paragraph correctly a lot of times but certain things do still annoy me. Typing in all lower cases or ALL UPPER CASES drives me crazy and not using punctuation also gets me. "Your" and "you're" are also pet peeves, especially when someone uses "you're" when it is supposed to be "your" lol. Don't even get me started on people that TyPe LiKe ThIs, or people that are too lazy to finish a word and type like they're texting when posting somewhere like here or facebook, which people do a lot.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    AGT: I can see the forest from the trees on this. I suspect (could be wrong) that AJ made his OP "tongue in cheek" rather than being literally serious. Many of the "errors" he cites may not be grammar, or spelling errors, but typos. I've done it, and I've seen several posters who I consider to be intelligent make typos on this and other boards. Especially with how keyboards on various devices are designed. Otherwise intelligent people type/text "loose" when they really meant "lose", etc., etc. ( I almost called you AJT, caught it in time. )

    On an internet board like this, errors are inconsequential. But, some board members are in jobs/professions where a single letter, or number misplaced can have rather dire consequences. I've seen more than a few job seekers on this board who are very likely acutely aware of the need to submit a flawless resume, cover letter, and application. Any flawed submission will be tossed in the trash, with the "correct" submissions getting the call/nod. Thus, some posters coming down hard on sloppy grammar/spelling.
    Last edited by minnow; 08-06-2012 at 09:21 PM. Reason: sp. corr.
    I'm right 96% of the time. I don't sweat the other 5% .......................

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Quote Originally Posted by All Good Things View Post
    Grammar Nazi threads make me a sad panda.

    I’ve spent huge swaths of my career in this endless battle to disabuse writers, linguists, translators, and other language folk – often young, inexperienced ones – of the notion that grammar is a Holy Grail that must be protected, like some 18th-century virgin’s honor. This is often the result of unfortunate intellectual violence done to young students by badly trained teachers with some deeply seated conflicts of their own.

    Language is a deeply human instinct. We all weave language like spiders weave webs – instinctually, flawlessly, brilliantly. We all do this from a young age, in all languages and cultures, and without formal training of any kind.

    Grammar is an arbitrary set of rules developed by people like me to standardize how we communicate through the written word. The crucial idea here is “communicate.” If you understand the meaning of what a writer intends – irrespective of the grammar – then they have succeeded in communicating.

    If a person insists on bitching, pissing and moaning about certain people ignoring the arbitrary rules, then that tells us something about that person. It screams “can’t see the forest for the trees.” I’m sorry to be so blunt, and I mean nothing personal with respect to AJ or tuesdaymarie, but this phenomenon has been studied by linguists and that research suggests that writers who get distracted by the arbitrary rules are not yet sophisticated writers. It’s like musicians getting distracted and bogged down by the individual notes and not seeing the whole musical piece. The research actually points out that it’s young and inexperienced writers who do this. They are behaving just like beginning musicians, all trying to get the notes right, not yet able to master the music.

    Such writers typically have a lot to learn about how language serves ideas and not the other way around.

    And yes, I know all about how punctuation changes meaning, how inadvertent errors can derail ideas and how standards serve a greater good. After all, I consult on dictionaries myself, have published dozens of books, speak five languages can read three more and am considered one of the greatest living linguists of Russian. So there, I said it!

    But grammar rules are in every important way totally arbitrary. They change constantly and it’s the truly creative writers who push those envelopes and redefine the boundaries. Rap and R&B are among the most beautiful examples of this creative destruction.

    And of course real linguists just love grammatical variation. Language use is a profoundly personal marker. Value what it tells you about people and how they choose to express themselves. You will learn new things, I promise.

    But above all please understand that there is no virtue in getting bogged down slapping the wrists of people who do not follow arbitrary written conventions. It’s unseemly, wrongheaded and discouraging.
    I don't have any issue with people who push and challenge language or its "rules." As I've mentioned more than a couple of times, I love poetry, both reading and writing it. Two of my favorite "tools" in grammar are the em dash and the semicolon, neither of which are often used with much reverence for typical grammatical rules in poetry. I have also worked with "constraints" after studying Oulipo and "potential literature." While I found it absolutely screwy and confounding at first, I have come to respect much of it. (I have a feeling you probably know more about that group and their works than I do, but on the off chance that you don't, I think you might find them interesting.) Anyway, I am by no means a stickler about leaving traditional grammar rules untouched, at least in creative works. I think creative writers largely become better writers (stylistically speaking) by being more attentive readers--of the works of other writers, and of their own works--, not by diagramming sentences.

    On the subject of non-artistic written communication, I don't think there's any reason for most people to know the majority of the rules of English, or whatever comparably vexing language they speak. As I said, knowing so many annoying little rules of English is a point of commiseration for me and a friend who also writes soulless pieces on mundane topics for extra cash. We did not know half of the rules that are now beaten into us until we began this work. We actually had to buy copies of AP Stylebook to refer to when editing, otherwise we would be penalized for breaking "rules" like the one about only spelling out numbers under 10, but otherwise just using digits. Keep in mind that we are both avid readers, so it's not like we just jumped into these writing positions with no working knowledge of English language mechanics. Anyway, now, when I read anything, I see grammatical errors everywhere, even when I read things I write. It drives me up the wall. My "problem" isn't that there are errors/typos/whatever; it's that I hate being so accustomed to having to spot them. Thus, my contributions to this thread aren't so much devout "grammar Naziism" as they are sad confessions that I know way too many useless, irritating things in order to meet the requirements of a job that makes me drink more than stripping ever could. Writing perfectly punctuated drivel is pretty soul-sucking.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    Quote Originally Posted by minnow View Post
    AGT: I can see the forest from the trees on this. I suspect (could be wrong) that AJ made his OP "tongue in cheek" rather than being literally serious. Many of the "errors" he cites may not be grammar, or spelling errors, but typos. I've done it, and I've seen several posters who I consider to be intelligent make typos on this and other boards. Especially with how keyboards on various devices are designed. Otherwise intelligent people type/text "loose" when they really meant "lose", etc., etc. ( I almost called you AJT, caught it in time. )

    On an internet board like this, errors are inconsequential. But, some board members are in jobs/professions where a single letter, or number misplaced can have rather dire consequences. I've seen more than a few job seekers on this board who are very likely acutely aware of the need to submit a flawless resume, cover letter, and application. Any flawed submission will be tossed in the trash, with the "correct" submissions getting the call/nod. Thus, some posters coming down hard on sloppy grammar/speelling.
    Agreed on both counts. I mentioned this in another thread, but ever since I was particularly dissatisfied with life for a good year or so and got too friendly with various substances, I have had the most annoying habit of confusing similar words when I type. On/one, half/have, poor/pore/pour--I know the differences and never mistyped them before frying what I guess were semi-important parts of my brain. I also recently read an article on Life Hacker (http://lifehacker.com/5930680/i-wont...mmar-heres-why) about why that particular fellow wouldn't hire people with sloppy grammar. Excerpt that gets to the idea of it:

    Grammar signifies more than just a person's ability to remember high school English. I've found that people who make fewer mistakes on a grammar test also make fewer mistakes when they are doing something completely unrelated to writing—like stocking shelves or labeling parts.

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    I think I saw the all time classic tonight. Someone posted on another message board: '' I can't believe how much he ways." Wow, really??

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    Default Re: Grammar Nazi thread. Because we need one.

    AGT - a beautiful post in every way.

    And minnow got me insofar as this being partially tongue-in-cheek; the OP is far from grammatically correct in any kind of stricter sense. The idea there being to show that one can indeed be loose with the language in order to get a point across whilst still paying SOMETHING like attention to basic usage and spelling.

    All of your points are both valid and beautifully articulated - which goes to point. When someone posts something that is in many ways great or helpful or otherwise constituting a contribution of value - but loads it with word misuse, particularly poor (or in many cases NO) punctuation, misspellings, and unintelligible sentence structure - their point is often lost, to say the least. While language is - and indeed, should be - an ever-evolving and highly personal thing, it is also a means of communication. And like any means of communication, standards are set to make it work - if we all used a different alphabet, communication wouldn't work very well in either it's written or spoken forms. The human brain being the amazing thing that it is, we are quite adaptable and there is a lot of wiggle room. 7#3r3 15'n7 4 d1c710n4ry 4 lee7 5pe4k, y37 m1ll10n5 0f p30pl3 c4n r34d 7#15 ju57 f1n3 f0r 3x4mpl3. Yet if wrote that same sentence with lots of horrible misspellings and grammatical goofs, it would be damn near unintelligible to anyone - we have our limits.

    Anyway - mistakes happen. Not here to harp on minor errors or typos or the occasional gaffe. But there ought to be a point - and really, there IS a point - at which the "evolution" of a communications medium takes a backseat to simple ignorance, poor education, and/or failure to pay attention. Typing "lose" for "loose" or vice-versa here or there is a mistake. Misusing "loose" in every. single. instance. where lose is the right word is a failure to know the language. Missing or mistaking a piece of punctuation, or creating an improper sentence - whether for stylistic purposes or by mistake - is different than writing an entire text block with little or no punctuation, sentence separation, or paragraph delineation whatsoever - every time you post. Colloquialisms can and should be used to great effect; that's not the same and simply not knowing the difference between various synonyms; not knowing what homonyms, heteronyms, homophones, and homographs are either in the technical sense or in common usage.

    In short, there is a difference between linguistic style, linguistic evolution, linguistic error - and linguistic ignorance.

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