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Thread: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

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    Default "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports



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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Kinda saw this one coming, and I'm really glad I got out of SM when I did. Too many changes for my liking recently. How do you girls who still cam on Sm feel about this? I hope it is profitable for everyone involved, especially you lovely ladies, but I am skeptical.

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Yay does this mean we'll get more traffic now? I'm assuming. Unless we suddenly go under for all of the illegal shit? lol *knock on wood*







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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Hmmm....well, this will certainly make life interesting over the next few months. I wonder if it will actually make any real impact on the site? I hope not - I am settling into a nice little groove here, and don't particularly want to move to another site as my primary...it would probably be MFC.

    Thanks for posting - I guess that this is a good reason to make sure that my MFC profile is up to scratch, and start focusing on building my C4S so that I can bridge a gap if needs be...
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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    I'm not familiar with Manwin, but following some of the links on Mike South's blog it seems like they're also known as Brazzers (http://www.mikesouth.com/wicked/manw...ty-kings-5545/) and a few weeks ago whenever I went to the SM home page it showed an ad for Brazzers first - which I thought was really annoying. But if SM has tons of complaints about bad credit card practices then this may be for the best if Manwin can clean that up. And if they run their businesses better then perhaps we'll see good improvements from them buying SM.

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    This is quite amazing... I am sure positive changes will start coming in as a direct result of this. Nobody with any fucking sense would spend hundreds of millions of pounds on a business, ONLY to look at it and say "Oh, I didn't know about this, just didn't bother to look too much into what I was getting myself into here, but now I see there's too much hard work here, so mehh... SEE YA SM!" and then not only leave it to sink, but not sell it on in some way. And plus, they are Manwin. They pretty much own internet porn and a pretty big portion of the internet with the sites they manage.


    [That's right, I'm looking upon this as a good thing until PROVEN otherwise. i.e. until I have first-hand experience of the SM ship sinking. I fucking hate pessimism and I can't afford it].





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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manwin

    Manwin is an adult entertainment IT company headquartered in Luxembourg, with offices in many countries. The company operates a wide variety of services, predominantly highly trafficked adult video sharing websites including YouPorn and PornHub.

    Manwin is the owner of many major pornographic web 2.0 websites including YouPorn, PornHub, Tube8, XTube, ExtremeTube, and SpankWire.
    Manwin also owns and operates a number of pornographic content brands such as Brazzers, Digital Playground, Mofos and Twistys. They also manage the websites of Wicked Pictures.
    In November 2011 Manwin became an operating partner of Playboy, managing the brand's online and entertainment business Playboy Plus Entertainment, which operates a number of television channels and online services based in the UK and Benelux.
    A merger notification (with Reality Kings) was filed with the Austrian Federal Competition Authority in April 2012.
    A security breach in February 2012 led to YouPorn's "YP Chat" being temporarily disabled as passwords and email addresses of more than 6,000 users were compromised; a breach at Digital Playground's site in March 2012 compromised user names, email addresses and passwords for 73,000 subscribers along with numbers, expiry dates and security codes for 40,000 credit cards.

    ----

    Looks like more traffic is a strong possibility, but lets hope there isn't a Streamate security breach anytime soon.

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Actually,we've discussed Manwin versus StreaMates in previous threads. However, those discussions revolved around the fact that ... after ManWin acquired a number of adult tube sites ... ManWin put an end to StreaMates' trading of camgirl video content in exchange for traffic from ManWin owned adult tube sites. This reduced StreaMates traffic levels, thus earnings levels, thus making the company a softer 'target' for a buyout. In hindsight, this was probably done deliberately for 'leverage' in regard to the future ManWin buyout of StreaMates.

    We've also discussed the arguable fact that camgirls with 'marginal' paid sales conversion rates COST their webcam host money, while 'star' camgirls with very high paid sales conversion rates earn webcam hosts the most money. The reasoning behind this is that the webcam host must absorb nearly equal costs for internet backbone bandwidth, for hi def video server capacity etc. regardless of whether the camgirl is selling $10 an hour versus $100 an hour.

    Given that ManWin is run by absolute business pro's ( their origins are actually American, with the headquarters in luxembourg arguably being for tax and adult regulation purposes ), and also given that ManWin ( or the private investors behind ManWin ) has invested millions of dollars to buy out StreaMates, there is no doubt whatsoever that StreaMates is going to have to 'deliver' a return on this investment.

    As such, i would expect to see changes at StreaMates which encourage 'star' camgirls and discourage 'marginal' camgirls in order to increase profit margins for Streamates. And this is likely to be particularly the case given ManWin's existing association with 'stars' via it's Playboy TV, mainstream US porn industry, and other adult content producer business ties. if one looks at typical changes to businesses after they have been bought out, it's a given that the new owner will attempt to build on existing 'strengths' which can be supported by symbiotic interaction with other businesses controlled by the same new owner ( in this case 'mainstream' adult content production with 'professional' adult performers ), and to cut 'losing' business operations which are not shared by other businesses controlled by the same new owner ( in this case 'amateur' content ).

    Time will tell. With most business buyouts, it requires at least 6 months or so for the new owners to 'learn' the ins and outs of the acquired business ( no pun intended ) and to formulate plans for changes. On the other hand, ManWin's buyout of StreaMates has arguably been underway for several months already, meaning that plans for changes may have already been made in advance of actual closing of the deal.

    With past speculation about ManWin and StreaMates now appearing to be a reality, I'll move on to a probable next step speculation. ManWin is part of the pro-SOPA / PIPA lobbying group ... which also includes mainstream US movie producers, mainstream US record producers, US cable TV providers, and a host of other US 'big business' entertainment industry interests. Thus when SOPA / PIPA legislation is again taken up by US lawmakers after the upcoming election, I would expect that ManWin owned websites ... including StreaMates ... will probably be spared future negative consequences of SOPA laws i.e. restricted access by US customers, restricted ability to process online credit card charges involving Mastercard and Visa accounts of US customers etc. However, this may also mean that other websites in direct competition with ManWin owned websites, particularly including non-US based adult webcam hosts directly competing with ManWin owned StreaMates, may quickly become 'targets' for future SOPA / PIPA restrictions.

    The 'talking heads' on Wall St. will tell you that ManWin has become the very first porn industry affiliated US based 'multinational corporation'. As such, there is every reason to expect that ManWin will follow business practices which have been proven successful regarding the operations of other US based 'multinational corporations'. High on this list of business practices is lobbying for, and being granted, some form of de-facto US gov't regulatory 'protection' from competition. SOPA / PIPA based regulations ostensibly based on US copyright infringement / 'piracy' of US owned intellectual property appears to be the chosen 'vehicle' to achieve this. As I stated earlier, things could get 'interesting' 6 months down the road.
    Last edited by Melonie; 10-14-2012 at 03:36 AM.

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    lol well - is there such a thing as anti-competition laws in porn? Feels like every other article that comes out about Manwin is like:



    Im wondering if Manwin is actually developing all of the sites they acquire or just absorbing the profits and ads for the tubesite takeover. unless Im mistaken - before SM they bought Webcams.com (awhile ago) and traffic has steadily gone up but not with the kind of dramatic boom you'd expect. But that acquisition doesnt have to be the benchmark for this takeover.

    Wow. Thanks Sam.





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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    I think the most I can firmly believe right now is that if Manwin bought Streamate, they WILL do good things for Streamate overall - it's just a question of whether those things will be good for me

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    I don't know why people get their panties in a twist over things like this. Streamate isn't going anywhere, and I don't see how this could be anything but good for us. If you work on SM, continue on business as usual. It's always good to have a backup, yes, but good luck finding one that will bring you the traffic SM will. Seriously, I don't think we have anything to worry about here.
    xoxo ~ Sarah





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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Im wondering if Manwin is actually developing all of the sites they acquire or just absorbing the profits and ads for the tubesite takeover.
    Again concentrating on the cold hard realities of 'big business', ManWin's acquisition 'strategy' seems to involve maximizing market segment profits via reducing market segment competition. This has arguably happened as a result of ManWin's ownership / control of several of the big name US porn production companies, already happened as a result of Manwin's ownership / control of content producing adult pay websites, has arguably already happened as a result of ManWin's ownership of multiple tube sites, etc.


    but good luck finding one that will bring you the traffic SM will. Seriously, I don't think we have anything to worry about here.
    I agree with this assessment ... well at least for camgirls whose paid sales conversion rates are high enough to consistently generate positive profits for their webcam host. But given that ManWin is a very well managed business that pays very close attention to bottom lines, I would NOT be surprised to see ManWin take future action to 'cut their losses' when it comes to marginal camgirls spending 50+ minutes out of every hour in unpaid free chat !

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Does this mean that our private shows are going up on Porn Hub for free?

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Does this mean that our private shows are going up on Porn Hub for free?
    Given that ManWin has effectively 'bought' the copyright to past and future SM video streams, it's certainly a possibility.

    However, from the 'Devil's Advocate' standpoint of a cold hard businessman, providing 'free' video stream content from a high earning StreaMates camgirl to a tube site would only serve to lessen the likelihood of future webcam customers paying for that camgirl's video stream on StreaMates.

    However, where low earning camgirls are concerned, providing their video stream for 'free' on a tube site wouldn't have much of an adverse affect on the camgirls future paid webcam sales ( which are already too low to cover the webcam host's expenses of providing bandwidth and streaming server capacity ). And it would provide the tube site with some new 'free' content which might generate positive tube site revenues to offset the 'losses' being incurred by StreaMates to continue hosting that 'marginal' camgirl.

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Incantatious View Post
    That's right, I'm looking upon this as a good thing until PROVEN otherwise. i.e. until I have first-hand experience of the SM ship sinking. I fucking hate pessimism and I can't afford it
    ^^^preach on. I honestly don't know how I'd make $$$$ if I was constantly seaching for potential negative outcomes

    as to the news, when I first read about it my thoughts were that, while it does further concentrate the power/influence of Manwin, sm pretty much dominates camming right now, anyways. I hope the purchase brings y'all a ton of new paying traffic.

    @Melonie, a question about the 'marginal cam chicas' theory...upon what source is this theory based? Most sites provide extra perks to the highest earners (extra promo, higher placement/percentages, etc). The site at discussion here (sm) provides extra perks like gold shows/tv gold shows to chicas who earn well and have the most up-to-date equipment. Regarding the 'porn star' phenomenon, it does appear that they get higher placement on sm, at least initially, but as has been discussed in other threads, being a porn star does not give a cam chica much of an edge long term, as the skill set required by a successful cam chica is quite different than that required by successful porn stars.

    That said, I haven't heard anything about measures to 'discourage' the 'marginal cam girls' except as a theory posited by those on the sidelines who filter everything through a lens of 'survival of the fittest'. I'm genuinely curious at to what evidence supports this theory. It doesn't appear to be the trend in camming, and it doesn't appear to be at all an issue of discussion on any webmaster forum I frequent.
    Last edited by loveshooks; 10-14-2012 at 02:53 PM.


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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Quote Originally Posted by loveshooks View Post
    ^^^preach on. I honestly don't know how I'd make $$$$ if I was constantly seaching for potential negative outcomes
    Thank you I know that work-related pessimism and anxiety certainly is a fast-track to some horrible burn out! No thankies!


    Quote Originally Posted by loveshooks View Post
    @Melonie, a question about the 'marginal cam chicas' theory...upon what source is this theory based? Most sites provide extra perks to the highest earners (extra promo, higher placement/percentages, etc). The site at discussion here (sm) provides extra perks like gold shows/tv gold shows to chicas who earn well and have the most up-to-date equipment. Regarding the 'porn star' phenomenon, it does appear that they get higher placement on sm, at least initially, but as has been discussed in other threads, being a porn star does not give a cam chica much of an edge long term, as the skill set required by a successful cam chica is quite different than that required by successful porn stars.

    That said, I haven't heard anything about measures to 'discourage' the 'marginal cam girls' except as a theory posited by those on the sidelines who filter everything through a lens of 'survival of the fittest'. I'm genuinely curious at to what evidence supports this theory. It doesn't appear to be the trend in camming, and it doesn't appear to be at all an issue of discussion on any webmaster forum I frequent.
    Excellent point and something I am curious of too. From my perspective (i.e. from what I've witnessed myself just from viewing the top ladies), it sincerely seems to lean in favor mostly of amateurs. The more personable, the more interactive, the more responsive, the more genuinely "up for it" any given girl seems, the better. There are a nice handful of SM girls at the top who are retired porn stars with a very generous catalogue of past porn performances that they know how to sell on SM, and they do so very well.

    BUT... there are many porn star SM performers (I am by no means saying this is the rule! Just from my experience), have ratings less than 5 stars: usually at 4 and a half or 3. The comments usually listed as negative usually have a lot to do with performer attitude and things like taking requests. Interaction with clients doesn't appear to be a strength of some, possibly because, as stated before by someone in a past thread, being a porn star is a very different animal to that of being a camgirl. The massively interactive nature of cam sites is the appeal of cam sites, which is why performers need some social / interactive strength regardless of any grand history she may have. That doesn't automatically come with being a porn star.

    Being a porn star of course gives you a fantastic position with which to begin camming, but it secures nothing ~ if she can't interact, she can't cam...

    There are many an amateur camgirl - these could even be ladies with minimal distinctive features (by this I mean: they don't do hardcore stuff, have had no surgery, not necessarily heavily niche-specific - just sweet, lovely, attractive women) who have slowly built their way up, listened to the feedback from their loyal clients, invested in their business with top of the range tech stuff and net connection etc - who are way, way WAY above some porn stars in terms of how much cash they must bring the site.

    Because of this, I too find it difficult to see why the heads of SM would go against that grain in order to deliver porn stars better placement / emphasis / etc regardless of performance skills which seem to be lacking in an amount large enough to be notable.




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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Well I am a "marginal" camgirl, only been at it for about a month, make about 20 bucks an hour on SM right now. I am not worried, if they are really only going to focus on the established models from now on, I can always go to another site (I have been meaning to get started on a back up anyway), get a C4S store, other passive content, etc. I think you higher earning girls have literally nothing to worry about, and will probably see either the same amount of traffic or more depending on what Manwin decides to do. I will just keep camming and work on building more of a web presence.

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    ^^^I wouldn't consider you 'marginal', I'd call you a chica who is just starting out. You're only a month into camming, you have no idea what your average income will be two months from now, 6 months from, a year from now. Truth is, most chicas don't start out making $100+ per hour. Some do, but most 'work up' their earnings over time as they learn more about what works for them. Reading your post you're on the right track, so keep doing what you're doing

    (momentary threadjack)

    I think sometimes chicas new to camming read about the average earnings of experienced cam chicas and feel discouraged, but the reality is that earnings for most of us rise significantly over time if we pay attention to what makes us $$$$ and are capable of adapting to changes in the business as they develop. 3 1/2 years in, I'm making more $$$$ than I ever thought was possible for me in this business, and I know Ms. Incantatious experienced the same thing, as she's written about elsewhere on sw.

    I was looking for a thread the other day and stumbled across an old earnings thread from 2010/2011. The reported incomes in that thread were far lower than what is typical now for an experienced chica who works regularly and knows what attracts her type of customers. What most chicas considered to be 'major bank' back then is pretty standard for experienced chicas now.

    /threadjack

    The cam sites would be foolish not to recognize that many chicas have a learning curve. If they kicked off every chica who struggled slightly just starting out they'd end up losing out on significant profits. For the chicas who make no money, they end up quitting on their own. There's no reason for a cam site to set up a procedure for picking and choosing winners and losers.

    That doesn't really fit with the "camming is dying/amateurs will be replaced by porn stars" theory that gets thrown around sw from time to time, and it really doesn't appear that amateurs or so-called 'marginal' chicas are going to be pushed off any cam site anytime soon. Yes, the industry changes. All industries do. There's still a shit ton of money to be made, however, and that will no doubt continue with Manwin at the helm of sm.

    Alot of the doom and gloom is ultimately just noise.


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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Thank you loveshooks, and don't worry I am not remotely discouraged. I am building a customer base slowly but surely and it will come along. And in the meantime I am fine with this much money, it's enough to pay the bills so I don't complain

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    SM denies it. Says it is just rumors. I trust this person.

    Someone I know at Manwin, is being coy about denying it.

    In general, I do worry. Manwin is NOT bbw friendly at all. Worked hard to get to the top of the 1st page.

    It might be a good thing, it might not. I love the people I deal with at SM currently. Feel like we are more in a partnership than the bad treatment I got from Imlive many years ago.

    Might have to make a trip out to LA & fuck some people to get the down Low.

    Cause if Manwin did, then I want to renegotiate my contract. Manwin has run many porn companies out of business. Now, that is just business, this is what corporations do. I have to do what is best for me. Knowing the truth helps me map out my future & camming plans.

    Smooches,
    Sam

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    I do appreciate all the comments & opinions.

    You ladies never fail to impress me with the different views & ideas on trending subjects that affect us all. Help me see the total picture.

    Love Ya'll,
    Sam

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam38g View Post
    SM denies it. Says it is just rumors. I trust this person.

    Someone I know at Manwin, is being coy about denying it.
    I'd be willing to believe that it's a rumor *IF* I hadn't seen that Brazzers page every time I went to Streamate.com a few weeks ago. That makes me think there's something going on between the two of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sam38g View Post
    In general, I do worry. Manwin is NOT bbw friendly at all. Worked hard to get to the top of the 1st page.
    It would be crazy to get rid of you and cut the bbw category from Streamate, one of the biggest appeals of camgirl sites is the variety. Every guy can find the perfect girl with the body he likes to turn him on right there live in real time. You can't get that from video clips and any adult entertainment company worth their shit should know that. But it's all speculation at this point anyways. There's been no official word from up high and I wouldn't be too worried right now.

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    I haven't heard anything about measures to 'discourage' the 'marginal cam girls' except as a theory posited by those on the sidelines who filter everything through a lens of 'survival of the fittest'. I'm genuinely curious at to what evidence supports this theory. It doesn't appear to be the trend in camming, and it doesn't appear to be at all an issue of discussion on any webmaster forum I frequent.

    Back to the 'cold hard' business analysis, a webcam host must pay x$ per month for streaming server capacity ... regardless of whether or not that server is being used to source a paid video stream or a free video stream. Similarly, webcam hosts must pay y$ per month for internet backbone bandwidth capacity, regardless of whether that bandwidth is being used for a paid video stream or a free video stream. Or put simply, the 'costs' to a webcam host are tied to the number of hours that a camgirl is logged on, with little or no difference in webcam host 'costs' between hours spent in free chat or hours spent in paid shows.

    Therefore, one way for the webcam host to increase profit margin is to stop providing streaming server capacity and internet backbone bandwidth capacity to camgirls whose average hourly paid sales are below the level that the webcam host's share of the camgirl's paid sales falls below the webcam host's actual 'costs' of providing her video stream. Or to remove the sugar coating, webcam host operating losses caused by 'marginal' camgirls are in fact being subsidized by the webcam host extracting a higher than necessary share of the paid sales of 'star' camgirls.

    The most profitable business model would be to cut back on the number of 'marginal' camgirls, to cut back on streaming server and internet backbone bandwidth costs ( which would not be as large if the webcam host doesn't need to provide 'free' streams to 'marginal' camgirls ), and to operate with as high a percentage as possible of 'star' camgirls whose paid sales rate versus time logged on is very high !

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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    ^ So really this has nothing at all to do with ye olde porn stars / amateur camgirls at all.

    I understand your reasoning with having to pay for stream, and it seems more simply a matter of: "Spending enough time getting paid during your stream? Whether you're a porn star or an amateur, don't worry!", or "Not spending enough time in paid chat during your stream? Whether you're a porn star or an amateur, worry!" kind of thing.

    I seem to recall you saying that the duration required to spend in paid chat would be 25% thereabouts? (Apologies if this is incorrect!) But I don't understand how this could be applicable due to how different girls charge different rates, plus the GOLD show system.

    For example, let us take 30 mins of streaming time:
    - I could be in paid chat in a GOLD show for 5 mins only, out of those 30 mins (and, say 15 mins spent in free chat collecting the tips) - but have raked in $150+ in tips just for that 5 minutes paid / 30 mins streaming time.
    OR
    - I could be in paid chat in private shows with men for that full half an hour whilst charging just $3 per min... Different sums of money, for different durations spent in paid chat...

    I hope this makes sense and you can kind of tell what I'm getting at with this! Maths, calculations, etc - not my strong point.




  39. #25
    Featured Member Incantatious's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Manwin Buys STreamate" -Mike South reports

    Double post ghost!
    Last edited by Incantatious; 10-16-2012 at 08:40 AM.




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