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Thread: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

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    Angry CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Characterize people by their actions, & you'll never be fooled by their words.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    First, let's not forget the point of this thread, and of our prayers now are the families. Of the victims, of the survivors, and of the shooter. yes, the shooter's family. They not only lost their son today, but have to live forever with the horrible things he did. There is no going on after that for many people.

    Now on to the gun control issue. I believe in the 2nd Amendment. More today than any day before. But i believe that guns should only be sold if you show you are qualified to use them. The founding fathers lived in an era where everyone had guns, daddy taught you to shoot, and it was a ball-and-powder weapon at best.

    Just because it's a right, doesn't mean we don't want you to be educated on the proper use of that right. I see nowhere in the Constitution that it limits or prevents gun training or similar. Just that we have "the right to bear arms". Not what steps need to be taken to exercise that right.

    If qualified, trained people (that is, qualified and licensed on a range by professionals) had been carrying guns at the scene maybe the shooter would have gone down sooner. (not sure I'm in favor of teachers having guns, but school security maybe? Administration? Unknown.)

    GUNS DO NOT KILL. People with issues or motives do.

    There are ONLY 7,000 homicides by gun annually in the US. Tiny, tiny percentage.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    This is such a tragedy and it bothers me. I don't have kids but do teach religious ed to 1st graders and the idea of someone shooting them horrifies me.

    Pinups, you are going to get the "ban gun always" wackos saying you are wrong but you are not. I too am a believer in the 2nd Amendment and do not believe guns should be outlawed. However, I want people to know how to properly shoot them and worry about the wrong people getting them, but then again these people usually get them through illegal ways.

    There is a special place in hell for kid murderers.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    I also believe if you hurt an innocent (kid, woman, old person, etc.) and go to jail, no "special protection" for you. Suck a dick or 30 and see how you like being someone else's victim. Why should I pay twice as much to keep your cruel ass warm, dry and safe?

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    I'm even crueler than that. In my sick and twisted mind pedophiles and child murderers would wear a sign stating they raped or killed a kid in general population. The inmates would take care of them because inmates who hurt kids are at the bottom of the scale.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I'm even crueler than that. In my sick and twisted mind pedophiles and child murderers would wear a sign stating they raped or killed a kid in general population. The inmates would take care of them because inmates who hurt kids are at the bottom of the scale.
    Sure. I'll personally buy the special uniforms or whatever.

    in exchange, I want 20 minutes alone with each of them. I promise, no one will die.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Very sad. Stuff like this hits me particularly hard since I have two small kids of my own. It's impossible not to wonder, "What if that was my child?"

    I imagine this thread is gonna go hog wild with the gun control debate, and I don't really feel like being a part of it. All I can say is that there is a reason why these massacres happen so often in the US, and it's glaringly obvious to outside observers.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Horrible, disgusting, and f-ing depressing event. A sad reminder of the times we live in.

    We guard our money with armed men and our children with signs and words.

    Priorities of the damned.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette View Post
    Very sad. Stuff like this hits me particularly hard since I have two small kids of my own. It's impossible not to wonder, "What if that was my child?"

    I imagine this thread is gonna go hog wild with the gun control debate,
    Only because people make goofy comments like that...Lets keep it to the actual topic so it does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette View Post
    and I don't really feel like being a part of it. All I can say is that there is a reason why these massacres happen so often in the US, and it's glaringly obvious to outside observers.
    Clearly, it's about controlling guns. Same day in a different country:

    Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school gates in China
    By NBC News wire reports

    BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on children in the country.

    The man attacked the children at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province, the Xinhua news agency reported.

    Police arrested a 36-year-old man, identified as villager Min Yingjun, Xinhua said. It did not give further details of the extent of the injuries.

    Ax-wielding man kills 3 kids, wounds 13 in China

    There have been a series of attacks on schools and children around China in recent years.


    Some were carried out by people who have lost their jobs or felt left out of the country's economic boom.

    The rash of violence has prompted public calls for more measures to protect the young in a country where many couples only have one child.

    There was a particular string of knife attacks against schoolchildren across the country in early 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50.

    In one incident that year, a man slashed 28 children, two teachers and a security guard in a kindergarten in eastern China.


    Notes:

    People suck
    Guns, knives, cars, and other devices can and will be used to kill people (think Timothy McVeigh, etc) and the tool not the issue
    The US is a violent society
    Guarding your money with armed men and your children with signs and words = priorities of the damned

    Back to the scheduled programming...thread does not need to be, not should it be, turned into a gun thread pro or con, but such comments you made bait people to respond. Please don't do that.

    RIP children
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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    This wasn't a nutjob who owned guns. It was a mentally unstable autistic with serious problems. The guns used were registered to his mother. This is a tragedy that could have been avoided many different ways, like many others.

    As for the gun debate, it doesn't matter. The same small minds that ban foods for making people fat ban guns for what the people holding them do. Mass murderers aren't the only lunatics.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Those fuckers at Westboro Baptist Church (which as far as I can tell has no idea what God wants) are going to picket the funerals of the innocents who died at Sandy Hook. Can we get some CT area strong men to stand and make sure the nutcases are kept far away from the greiving families?

    also, I support Morgan Freeman's suggestion - NO MORE should the names of these murderers be mentioned. Let the Slime die in anonymity as they would have if their psychoses had called for a suicide in Mom's basement. They're slime and should be forgotten...not memorialized forever.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    I am a Christian but if I heard someone massacred the Westboro nuts I wouldn't be upset. Those people are not Christians.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Um... Why are the Westboro's picketing these people's funerals? Not soldiers, not gay, etc - wtf..? And don't worry - once the fact that they're going to be there gets to Anon, they'll be a non-factor. nless the bikers or KKK get to it first, lol.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    This is such a tragedy! I could not help but to cry, and all of a sudden had this craving to just touch and hold my children when I saw it. They, of course being teenagers, thought I was nuts for checking them out of school early and just hanging onto them, but who cares? These poor families will never get that opportunity again. It just hurts my soul that someone could be capable of such despicable violence against children!
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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Something CONSTRUCTIVE. Wonder if it'll get any attention?

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Clearly, it's about controlling guns. Same day in a different country:

    [B][I]Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school gates in China
    By NBC News wire reports

    BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on children in the country.

    The man attacked the children at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province, the Xinhua news agency reported.

    Police arrested a 36-year-old man, identified as villager Min Yingjun, Xinhua said. It did not give further details of the extent of the injuries.

    It should be noted that every single one of the children hurt in that knife assault SURVIVED.
    Quote Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707 View Post
    What I DO have issues with, is that this was a couple of years ago And Judas is still in the freezer.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Almost Jaded View Post
    Something CONSTRUCTIVE. Wonder if it'll get any attention?

    http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

    Thanks for posting that. The conversation would be incomplete without this perspective.

    No easy answers, that's for sure. :-/
    Quote Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707 View Post
    What I DO have issues with, is that this was a couple of years ago And Judas is still in the freezer.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica1001 View Post
    It should be noted that every single one of the children hurt in that knife assault SURVIVED.
    Do we have a source for that? I just says he "slashed" them. I was not able to find any hard numbers in terms of death or lack there of. If they all lived, GREAT. But that he was not very good with his knife not relevant. Lots of deaths due to these attacks happening in China, and $5 worth of gas was used to kill 87 people in NY NY in the happy land fires, and so forth. Crazy D Bag (I think using their name only gives them more power even in death) killed approx 250 people with an easy to make bomb if you recall.... Most kids killed to date on an attack on a school, no guns involved BTW. Tool/weapon of choice can be cultural and availability, but find a tool/weapon they will. Here's an article written by someone with real expertise on the topic (vs politicians, media, and "don't confuse me with facts type"), Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, who has great respect by law enforcement, military, etc for his thoughts on these events:

    Active shooters in schools: The enemy is denial

    Preventing juvenile mass murder in American schools is the job of police officers, school teachers, and concerned parents

    Me, I don't want feel good BS measures like "gun free zone" signs and laws passed that will do jack shit to actually prevent this type of thing from happening. I want REAL action now that will indeed great reduce the potential for these events (saying eliminate would be fantasy and more denial) and sooner people take their head out of the sand (eg, their state of denial) sooner their children will be FAR safer than they are now.
    Last edited by Will; 12-17-2012 at 08:07 AM.
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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica1001 View Post
    Thanks for posting that. The conversation would be incomplete without this perspective.

    No easy answers, that's for sure. :-/
    I was going to post that one too. An excellent article and where money and effort needs to be placed. We do a horrible job on this country f dealing with the mentally ill and mental illness, but addressing that takes time, $$$, and commitment, and we seem to be very short on that at the moment.
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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    The solution is so obvious, guys... The best way to cure our violent, bloodthirsty, fame-obsessed, gun-obsessed society is to allow everyone to have massive arsenals of guns and to make sure everyone's always packing heat in public, so they'll always be ready to put the Jack Bauer moves on any thugs or psychos who happen to strike! There is no possible way that this could backfire.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette View Post
    The solution is so obvious, guys... The best way to cure our violent, bloodthirsty, fame-obsessed, gun-obsessed society is to allow everyone to have massive arsenals of guns and to make sure everyone's always packing heat in public, so they'll always be ready to put the Jack Bauer moves on any thugs or psychos who happen to strike! There is no possible way that this could backfire.
    Posted on ClassicFirearms:

    " Connecticut footnote: About 30 miles from Newtown, CT. is another small town, Cheshire, Ct. In July 2007 two convicted felons invaded the home of Dr. Wm. Petit. They bludgeoned him with a baseball bat, raped and strangled his wife, raped their two daughters and then tied them to their beds and burned them alive in the house. They were defenseless. At that time everyone in Connecticut, and anyone else who heard of this, wanted a gun. And sales skyrocketed. Many people who were anti-gun changed their minds and bought home defense shotguns. We all have very short memories."

    I remember the above well, as it happened one state over from me: (1) guns are not a "solution" they are a fundamental right of free people and have both pos/neg uses in a free society... (2) I'll take everyone being armed to the teeth over being a sitting duck with no ability to defend myself (3) you're obviously not well read on the hard data that has shown consistently, where law abiding citizens can defend themselves, crime goes DOWN. Deal with it. (4) The US Const. Deal with it.

    I'd recommend to keep this thread from going downhill fast, more actual facts, data, and history used, vs knee jerk emotional rhetoric.
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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Posted on ClassicFirearms:

    " Connecticut footnote: About 30 miles from Newtown, CT. is another small town, Cheshire, Ct. In July 2007 two convicted felons invaded the home of Dr. Wm. Petit. They bludgeoned him with a baseball bat, raped and strangled his wife, raped their two daughters and then tied them to their beds and burned them alive in the house. They were defenseless. At that time everyone in Connecticut, and anyone else who heard of this, wanted a gun. And sales skyrocketed. Many people who were anti-gun changed their minds and bought home defense shotguns. We all have very short memories."
    I might be inclined to buy a gun if this happened in my community too. Very scary. However, there is absolutely no way to prove that this crime could've been prevented if they had a gun in their home. Especially if it happened in the middle of the night (I don't know the details so I may be wrong). The element of surprise can be very powerful, and combine that with the grogginess of sleep and it's hard to say whether or not a shotgun would've helped. An alarm system probably would have worked just as well, if not better. I have an alarm system in my home and it makes me feel very secure. I can't picture any criminals sticking around to rape/murder/steal when there are loud-ass sirens blaring and cops on their way.

    I remember the above well, as it happened one state over from me: (1) guns are not a "solution" they are a fundamental right of free people and have both pos/neg uses in a free society...
    I never said they weren't a right. I don't think all guns should be banned and I literally NEVER hear anyone advocating for that, in the media or otherwise. But it's not all or nothing, either. I do think that there should be more reasonable restrictions placed on gun ownership, not that guns should be banned altogether.

    (2) I'll take everyone being armed to the teeth over being a sitting duck with no ability to defend myself
    Doesn't have to be all or nothing here either. I think you should be able to defend yourself. But arming everyone to the teeth is a recipe for disaster. People are stupid, and assuming that everyone with a gun is responsible enough to train & educate themselves properly (and their family too) is foolish. Putting a handgun in someone's hand will not magically turn them into a perfect Jack Bauer-like vigilante. Real life situations are much more complicated, and an armed citizen placed in a dangerous situation will be subject to nerves, shock, confusion, panic, the element of surprise, etc. Not saying that they couldn't help, but you do have to look at things realistically. Even trained cops make mistakes... case in point: the recent New York shooting, where 9 civilians were injured by cops in a gunfight.

    (3) you're obviously not well read on the hard data that has shown consistently, where law abiding citizens can defend themselves, crime goes DOWN. Deal with it.
    This is arguable. I could find dozens of studies to link to, but I feel like it's all pointless because any study with a conclusion that you don't agree with you'll accuse of having a liberal bias.

    (4) The US Const. Deal with it.
    That's fine, and I do think the 2nd Amendment should be respected. However, I'm bothered by the way a lot of people look at the Constitution and the founding fathers. The latter are treated like demi-Gods and the Constitution is treated like a sacred infallible document bestowed upon us from God above. The Constitution is a living document and was purposely written vaguely so that it could be amended to adapt to changing times. Gun ownership is a right, yes, but it's supposed to be a well-regulated right, not a free for all.

    I'd recommend to keep this thread from going downhill fast, more actual facts, data, and history used, vs knee jerk emotional rhetoric.
    I agree, and I do apologize for my sarcasm, but it should apply both ways, too. I'd prefer not to be called a "lunatic" because I have a different opinion than you. edit: I know you specifically didn't say that.

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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette View Post
    I might be inclined to buy a gun if this happened in my community too. Very scary. However, there is absolutely no way to prove that this crime could've been prevented if they had a gun in their home. Especially if it happened in the middle of the night (I don't know the details so I may be wrong). The element of surprise can be very powerful, and combine that with the grogginess of sleep and it's hard to say whether or not a shotgun would've helped. An alarm system probably would have worked just as well, if not better. I have an alarm system in my home and it makes me feel very secure. I can't picture any criminals sticking around to rape/murder/steal when there are loud-ass sirens blaring and cops on their way.
    Again, we have both stats and "real world" experience where yes, it made all the difference. No, nothing promise to save you 100% of the time, nothing. That's why you look at large scale effects vs n=1 examples per se.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette View Post
    I never said they weren't a right. I don't think all guns should be banned and I literally NEVER hear anyone advocating for that, in the media or otherwise. But it's not all or nothing, either. I do think that there should be more reasonable restrictions placed on gun ownership, not that guns should be banned altogether.
    Then you may want to pay more attention to who is saying what: :

    http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnobody.html

    "reasonable" restrictions? I'm all for it. However, "reasonable" is laws that impact criminals, not law abiding. Current laws impact law abiding (because, well they tend to follow laws) and not criminals (because they don't ten to follow laws...shocker I know), so my version of "reasonable" probably will not be be yours. Most laws proposed are neither logical, "reasonable" or make any sense and will have no impact on crime, or will raise it. Again, have you read the actual data? Didn't think so....


    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette View Post
    Doesn't have to be all or nothing here either. I think you should be able to defend yourself. But arming everyone to the teeth is a recipe for disaster. People are stupid, and assuming that everyone with a gun is responsible enough to train & educate themselves properly (and their family too) is foolish. Putting a handgun in someone's hand will not magically turn them into a perfect Jack Bauer-like vigilante. Real life situations are much more complicated, and an armed citizen placed in a dangerous situation will be subject to nerves, shock, confusion, panic, the element of surprise, etc. Not saying that they couldn't help, but you do have to look at things realistically. Even trained cops make mistakes... case in point: the recent New York shooting, where 9 civilians were injured by cops in a gunfight.
    Spoken by someone (a) has no actual knowledge of guns and (b) has not read any of the actual data that exists. I'd drop a link to read, but I suspect you didn't read any of the others I or others supplied and clearly ignore some essential points made, etc.


    We guard our money will well armed men and our children with "gun free zone" signs. If that's does not bother, if you see nothing wrong with that, if you think removing the guns would prevent similar events (such as I already outlined...), then you seriously live in denial and a fantasy land. If others with your mindset continue on that path of denial, expect more such events in the future.

    Regarding the safety of YOUR CHILDREN, do you want that to come from politicians and people with zero knowledge of the topic, or professionals who spend their lives advising on that type of thing? I know who I want to get my advice from, so once again, I will direct you to the article Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, linked above for solid into how to prevent future events among other issues that need to be addressed (see excellent article already posted from mother of child with mental illness above!)

    I know you mean well, I really do, but your concern is placed in the wrong spot, and you should be furious with the fact your children are placed in harms way because budgets don't allow for proper security at schools while we give BILLIONS away to forign countries.
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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    everywhere on the internet people are saying what they wouldve done, what should be done, tsk tsking at the principal for not being armed, for the schoolnot having proper precautions against a rare and "no one ever would anticipate this happening" event... all from the comforts from their own homes, watching news reports and generating ideas well after a sudden, abrupt and very rapid violent tragedy.

    The principal who people keep blaming: was murdered. She died. All of her social networking presence was devoted to these kids, her life was so devoted to community building and service up until then. Indirectly blaming her and her school's administration is so disrespectful. She, btw, was murdered and caught unaware by a bulletproof vested person armed to the teeth with semiautomatics on a weekday morning. A person whose first victim was a well-armed gunowner. Yea, let's indirectly blame her.

    There were real heroes that day. all of this grandstanding overshadows the real heroes and the people who sacrificed their own lives to help out one another: which is a rare phenomenon (bystander effect is very very real).

    5 year olds huddling their friends together to get out the door. teachers ensuring their whole room was accounted for before running out the door. administrative staff doing their best to alert everyone. people waiting for each other. law enforcement having to count and identify bodies of children. children reminding other children to keep quiet in closets, children and adults consoling one another within the vicinity of the building instead of just fleeing the scene like most people would do.

    real people who actually did do something. they did very impactful community-conscious things. all of this victim blaming (that is what it is) and hindsight rationalizations are condescending and tedious. there are 6 year olds who basically endured real warlike combat and will have PTSD for life because of this. they still helped out their friends as best as they could.

    all this 'let me tell you internets' squabbling overshadows and discounts that there were real heroes that day. and many if not all of them will be forgotten in the narcissism of debates, google searches of the constitution, and grandstanding.

    Those people's families are stuck rebuilding a broken community, and all of them will be present day in and day out dealing with the discomfort and pain - and worse people nitpicking and borderline accusing them. They cant just enrage online or in person in the comforts of their own homes embroiled in a theoretical discussion.

    Children and adults did do something meaningful and important that day in ways that should not be overshadowed by armchair hindsight.





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    So how many stumps can you fit in your pussy?

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    God/dess MargaritaVillain's Avatar
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    Default Re: CT school shooting: 20 kids 6 adults dead..

    ^perfect
    When life gives you lemons, make lemonade... then find someone whose life gave them vodka, and have a party.

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