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Thread: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

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    Question Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Hi ladies!

    I usually post in camming connection these days, as I made the switch a little while ago...but I am doing some writing for a website, and need to get some stripperly opinions - help a sister out?

    Basically, I am writing an article about Burlesque dancers, and the (imho, really, really frustrating) tendency of burlesquers to make a big deal about how they are "not strippers" and generally seem to consider themselves better than strippers...despite the fact that they are also, y'know, taking their clothes off on a stage, sometimes for money.

    So - what do you guys think? Do you think that it IS essentially different, or exactly the same? Do you get frustrated with the burlesque snobbery, or enjoy it and watch it? Does it annoy you that so many girls are essentially stripping for free/fun and think that it affects your earnings? Does it affect how customers think of you?

    Finally - how do you think it changes for girls in areas where full-nude dancers are illegal? Does it make a huge difference when burlesque dancers are basically doing the same thing as you? Does it make you feel like you have to break rules/up contact/etc to compete?

    Anything else that you want to say about the burlesque/stripper dichotemy?

    THANK YOU!!
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    I'm not a stripper or a burlesque dancer, but I have watched multiple interviews with Dita Von Teese where she referred to herself as a stripper. Here's a quote:

    "We're strippers. I'm not ashamed of being a stripper. Gypsy Rose Lee was called a stripper; it's not a bad word. It's where modern-day striptease started. It's the same thing, it's just a different kind of styling, and maybe there were a little more theatrics involved, a little more glamour."
    Quote Originally Posted by qurl View Post
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    The problem with this article is that you're really generalizing burlesque dancers. While there are some who certainly DO make a big deal about not being strippers, there are many others who don't. I've worked with quite a few strippers who were also burlesque dancers and whose troupe members didn't act in the way you've described at all. Depending on the website this article is being posted on, you may want to take that into consideration.

    And, while stripping and burlesque are, in essence, the same thing (taking your clothes off on stage, often for money), they're also quite different and don't really affect each other as much as you seem to think. Like, the crowd that goes to see a burlesque show isn't the crowd that goes to a strip club for lap dances. Burlesque shows are more campy and exaggerated; they have stories or themes; they aren't aimed at turning on the audience; they're generally for a big and varied crowd; etc. Stage dancing in a strip club is more focused on turning on members of the audience (generally men) to buy lap dances, which burlesque dancers don't sell. They're two similar forms of entertainment geared towards different audiences.

    If a girl wants to be a burlesque dancer, I hope she has fun. She isn't impeding my income by "stripping for free/fun" because, while she may be stripping off her clothes, she's not stripping in the same sense that I am and certainly not to the same clientele.

    IME, most of the points you've made are really reaching to find some sort of impact by burlesque on dancing when I don't think that's really the case at all. I'm interested in reading other responses if that's not the case in other areas though.

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by shanna dior View Post
    The problem with this article is that you're really generalizing burlesque dancers. While there are some who certainly DO make a big deal about not being strippers, there are many others who don't. I've worked with quite a few strippers who were also burlesque dancers and whose troupe members didn't act in the way you've described at all. Depending on the website this article is being posted on, you may want to take that into consideration.

    And, while stripping and burlesque are, in essence, the same thing (taking your clothes off on stage, often for money), they're also quite different and don't really affect each other as much as you seem to think. Like, the crowd that goes to see a burlesque show isn't the crowd that goes to a strip club for lap dances. Burlesque shows are more campy and exaggerated; they have stories or themes; they aren't aimed at turning on the audience; they're generally for a big and varied crowd; etc. Stage dancing in a strip club is more focused on turning on members of the audience (generally men) to buy lap dances, which burlesque dancers don't sell. They're two similar forms of entertainment geared towards different audiences.

    If a girl wants to be a burlesque dancer, I hope she has fun. She isn't impeding my income by "stripping for free/fun" because, while she may be stripping off her clothes, she's not stripping in the same sense that I am and certainly not to the same clientele.

    IME, most of the points you've made are really reaching to find some sort of impact by burlesque on dancing when I don't think that's really the case at all. I'm interested in reading other responses if that's not the case in other areas though.
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    I feel that I should explain - the questions that I asked were not necessarily how I feel - but questions to get opinions flowing, and ideas coming out. As in "are you annoyed? Happy? Frustrated? Indifferent?" rather than "I think that it affects earnings". The only opinion that I tried to express was that it annoys me WHEN burlesque dancers act snobby about strippers. I suppose I could have written "frustrating tendency that SOME burlesquers" rather than omitting the "some". For the record, I also have friends who are dancers and celebrate stripping and burlesque as different forms of entertainment, as you have said.

    I actually haven't even totally decided on how I want the article to come across - I am talking to dancers from both sides first, and then seeing where my opinion falls once I have heard from everyone. Of course, I am never going to stop being annoyed by those women who DO make a big deal of "not being strippers", but I'm a little annoyed by anyone who looks down on sex workers!

    So yes - sorry if I gave the impression that the questions were representative of an opinion, they are just general questions intended to get the conversation going.
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by ManyRoses View Post
    So yes - sorry if I gave the impression that the questions were representative of an opinion, they are just general questions intended to get the conversation going.
    No worries! I really am interested to find out if there are dancers who feel that way or who have experienced such an effect because of burlesque. What kind of website are you writing this for? It's cool if you don't feel like sharing, though hopefully you'll at least post the finished article!

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by shanna dior View Post
    No worries! I really am interested to find out if there are dancers who feel that way or who have experienced such an effect because of burlesque. What kind of website are you writing this for? It's cool if you don't feel like sharing, though hopefully you'll at least post the finished article!
    I will definitely post a link to the finished article! It is a local alt-culture production...

    Question about your response - may I ask how big the burlesque and strip scenes are in your area? I would like to see if there is a big difference in opinion for areas where burlesque is HUGE, compared to those where there is maybe one venue or the occasional performance.
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by ManyRoses View Post
    Question about your response - may I ask how big the burlesque and strip scenes are in your area? I would like to see if there is a big difference in opinion for areas where burlesque is HUGE, compared to those where there is maybe one venue or the occasional performance.
    Surprisingly big for a relatively small city, especially since this is a government town. We've got 5 clubs in the actual city and about 4-5 more in the local region. Not sure if this is pertinent but since you mentioned wondering about the effect on non-nude clubs, my city is fully nude with high contact and fairly simple stage shows as stage tipping is non-existent and the money comes from dances. So here, burlesque and stripping really are very different forms of dancing (partially) naked. I believe most of the troupes don't strip fully nude and often even wear pasties, though I haven't seen shows by all the troupes so I could be mistaken.

    There's also a decent sized burlesque scene with quite a few different troupes (sorry, no idea on numbers but in the past couple of days I've seen posters hanging around town for 3-4 different ones) and venues that they perform in. We don't have a specific venue for just burlesque though, but there are a handful of bars and halls that the troupes tend to perform in.

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    Smiley Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    The World Famous *BOB* explains the difference between the two: “Strippers make money, and burlesque dancers spend the little they make on their next costume.”

    LOL. I love that woman.

    Anyways, Burlesque was the forerunner of modern stripping. No. Fucking. Question.

    Anyone with some sense of burlesque's history wouldn't be so quick to separate the two. For it's time, burlesque was pretty racy. But as laws (and peoples attitudes) relating to nudity changed, the burlesque format became less relevant. Wikipedia says: "Burlesque became increasingly neglected, and by the 1970s, with nudity commonplace in theatres, reached its final shabby demise."

    Basically, I am writing an article about Burlesque dancers, and the (imho, really, really frustrating) tendency of burlesquers to make a big deal about how they are "not strippers" and generally seem to consider themselves better than strippers...despite the fact that they are also, y'know, taking their clothes off on a stage, sometimes for money.
    ^^^^^^ This attitude is unfortunately held by SOME neo-burlesque performers. The whole burlesque revival movement created an explosion of burlesque performers, burlesque groups, burlesque fans, etc. and as with any large subculture there are going to be varied opinions about how that culture is "supposed" to be defined. Neo-burlesque is a different incarnation of burlesque... you wouldn't see Boylesque or Alt-Burlesque back in the day. Please see: http://www.theantiroom.com/2011/04/0...nd-everything/

    The modern burlesque movement is difficult to pin down in terms of what it is and isn't but as far as I am concerned, there is a greater emphasis on props and costuming, more rehearsed routines, and a greater proclivity to making a statement (whether it be artistic, political, or comedic.) The other thing that I will go out on a limb and say is that the vast majority of modern burlesque performers do it as a hobby and not a profession. There are exceptions, to be sure, but serious touring performers and local mainstays make up a small percentage of the folks that dabble in burlesque for fun.

    Beyond that, I can say that burlesque shows are self-contained entities. I mean, there is a beginning, a middle, and an end. The show runs for a set period of time and then it is done. There are designated performers and designated acts. Strip clubs differ in the sense that there is always someone on stage but things just sort of flow throughout the day or night with no well-defined structure.

    There is certainly more variety in burlesque. You'd be hard pressed to find cross-dressers, full-figured women, etc. in most strip clubs. It's a more inclusive scene that doesn't adhere to the regimented social norms regarding what's considered sexy and what isn't generally accepted.

    I wouldn't say that burlesque is better or worse than stripping (or vice versa). Luckily I haven't had to tolerate much snobbery in NYC.

    I'll say that we are comparing apples to oranges and both are equally tasty... and one of those fruits just happens to make me money.

    More History:
    While burlesque went out of fashion in England towards the end of the 19th century, to be replaced by Edwardian musical comedy, the American style of burlesque flourished, but with increasing focus on female nudity. Exotic "cooch" dances were brought in, ostensibly Syrian in origin. The entertainments were given in clubs and cabarets, as well as music halls and theatres. By the early 20th century, there were two national circuits of burlesque shows competing with the vaudeville circuit, as well as resident companies in New York.


    The transition from burlesque on the old lines to striptease was gradual. At first soubrettes showed off their figures while singing and dancing; some were less active but compensated by appearing in elaborate stage costumes. The strippers gradually supplanted the singing and dancing soubrettes; by 1932 there were at least 150 strip principals in the US. By the late 1930s, burlesque shows would have up to six strippers supported by one or two comics and a master of ceremonies.--- Wikipedia

    Also see: http://employees.oneonta.edu/bealt/quinn.htm

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Contact Jo Weldon (Jo Boobs). She is a member on this site I'd be very interested to hear her perspective on this... especially since she has experience in both Stripping and Burlesque.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Oh, and even though this isn't EXACTLY related to burlesque.... I'm just going to leave it here.... http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/sho...-Stripper-quot
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Oh snap! Speak of the devil! Here's some photos Jo Weldon performing yesterday (she is wearing red):

    http://gothamist.com/2013/01/30/phot...ys.php#photo-2
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    I do get annoyed when burlesquers look down on strippers. The only example I can put my finger on however is the student girls in the uni burlesque club, one or two have said things like "but this is like... tasteful", "it's not like were shoving our boobs in some guy's face", so nothing really mean but still irksome.

    It doesn't seem to affect customers, the crowd that goes to burlesque shows is people into the scene, mostly women around here too (a few small shows and one regular big show in this city). When i've mentioned it to customers (i dabble) they don't really know what it is.

    However I've been put off performing burlesque since i started dancing, because i want to be paid to get my boobs out on stage (despite having to do so for free in the club, and despite pasties being worn during burlesque, weird huh?)... so if i perform i'm not keen on revealing all in the name of art, want to be paid per person haha.

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Thank you ladies!!

    Sophia, I think you really hit the nail on the head with the link to the thread about go-go dancers v strippers - the idea that the reason that some of these women are so negative about strippers (or just make it really clear that they think that they are NOT strippers) is because they think that they are "better" than strippers...

    Keep the thoughts coming!! This is really helpful!!

    It's also really interesting to hear how many of you have had good experiences, or that customers haven't known what it is. In my area, it is HUGE, as well as boylesque and gorelesque. (sp?) I don't think that there is a single customer I have spoken to who doesn't know what it is!!! And there are some seriously catty girls who do it...
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Quote Originally Posted by ManyRoses View Post
    some of these women are so negative about strippers (or just make it really clear that they think that they are NOT strippers) is because they think that they are "better" than strippers...And there are some seriously catty girls who do it...
    They are acting out due to their personal insecurities. You may find it annoying, but the truth of the matter is that their feigned superiority is worth NOTHING at the end of the day. Allow them to stroke their own egos. We fly above imaginary pecking orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    When I started doing burlesque I was in a show were all but one girl worked at the Hustler Club. Whenever I hear another burlesque dancer talk about strip club strippers I promptly school them in a few things. It doesn't happen too often around here or at least around me. As a "stripper" Burlesque dancers have not impacted my money at all. Most burlesque shows around here are attended by woman. The type of man that goes to a strip club is not the kind of man that goes to a burlesque show. I could go into greater detail, but I see that this is an older post. I just happened to see it and wanted to comment.

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    I work at a large, busy strip club that attracts blue- and white-collar guys, whales, etc... and one of my good friends there has been doing burlesque shows for years WITH THE APPROVAL, APPRECIATION, AND STAGE TIPS SHE DESERVES!!!! She typically does choreographed fan shows, but she's done other stuff. She is technically a burlesque dancer and a stripper-- and the strip club customers enjoy and appreciate the shows. Usually, when she's on stage, a lot of people stop what they are doing and pay attention to her. Obviously, she has no negative views on stripping since she does strip and do private dances. As a side note, she does do longer burlesque shows for events outside the strip club.
    I think the assumption that those appreciating neo-burlesque are different than those appreciating strip clubs is quite off base, at least in my experience. The two roles are not mutually exclusive.

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    I look at Burlesque dancers , in this day and age as a show, and although it may have been the roots of current stripping, its all an show and not really for turn on. I compare it to >GASP< "Pole dancers".. who's shows have a Wow factor, and are much better than I am on a pole, but are more of a show than a turn on. I dont think they get nude, probably some sport bra bikini though.. Most of us know that stage tips suck stripping , and if You dont have a very pretty face and bouncing boobs it can get worse, but the goal is table/lap dances for the $$.
    Show/Vegas chorus line troupes/ pole dancers...... vs Up close and personal stripping/hustling for cash/ OH almost for got the >Therapy" hehe Dancer maria

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Burlesque is art, stripping is often times not. Think about like Vegas clubs. Girls barely go on stage. Its not about the stage, its about VIPs. Both use charisma and "presence", but in different ways. Stripping is overtly sexual of course, and burlesque is more implied teasing. Both can be just as sexually gratifying, but in different ways. That being said, I love both in different ways.

    Personally, I think both can be artistic. Burlesque is always artistic because its based off a stage performance, an artistic routine, and a lot of thought put into costumes. HOWEVER, a stripper can also meet those same requirements, but many (and probably most!) do not. Nothing wrong with that though. Both have their place.

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    I have always been fascinated by traditional burlesque like Tempest Storm and Gypsy Rose Lee and watch those clips often on YouTube. In fact one of the reasons I started dancing was because of that. Of course I learned down the line that while modern stripping comes from burlesque it generally has a different purpose. Burlesque became more of an art show whereas modern stripping is more for satisfying sexual urges in men. Also, like mentioned burlesque is more of a hobby instead of money. To be honest I suspect the reason some modern burlesque dancers don't like to call themselves strippers is because of some of the dirty behavior in some clubs (like friction lap dances). Just a guess though as I have never worked in a burlesque show though I just found out about an active troupe not far from me I want to audition at.

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    I have a friend who dances burlesque, she was horrified when I told her I wanted to start stripping. I was like, "Um who the fuck are you to judge me?"

    I think burlesque is generally viewed as a novelty. It's not actually meant to arouse, it's entertainment for people who appreciate nostalgia. On one hand it may be more involved than stripping in that the costumes are typically more expensive and the dancing more skilled, and live music is often used. It's not usually a job however. All the burlesque dancers I've ever known made next to no money at it, and had a main career in their life that supported their hobby. It CAN be a job, but it's usually not.

    Stripping on the other hand is generally viewed as a last resort for a woman who has to make ends meet. Stripping isn't "cool". A woman with fake tits wearing see-through 8 inch stilettos and grinding on an old man doesn't earn hipster street cred like a chunky brunette with titty tassels shimmying to Duke Ellington. Whether or not this is true, it's how a lot of people see it.

    I am a jazz singer and have sang for all kinds of acts, including a lot of burlesque. And I'll tell you that stripping is the way to go if you want to compare these apples and oranges. Burlesque is a hobby one needs a job to support, stripping is a job that supports everything else in one's life. I don't believe the two worlds collide in any way. And burlesque dancers who judge strippers are not any different from stay at home moms, waiters, delivery drivers, nurses, grocery baggers, teachers or anyone else who judges strippers.

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    Personally, I hate that burlesque dancers call themselves strippers.
    I'm sorry, but stripping down to huge pasties and your panties is not being a stripper.

    That is a burlesque dancer/artist. She's got more clothes on at the end of her set than your average girl sunbathing on a public beach in the south of France!
    Not a stripper, imo.
    Talented burlesque dancer - yes. Stripper - no.
    I think the roads diverged and they are two different things today.

    Where some strippers used to get annoyed with burlesque dancers for "looking down on them", I think strippers should now be annoyed that burlesque dancers are trying to steal some of OUR energy, mystique and sensuality by claiming to be strippers when they're not. I think it's false advertising and it diminishes what real strippers actually do.

    We have our own culture - we don't tread on the burlesque dancer's turf, why is she so adamant (in her slightly condescending way) to "relate" to us by calling herself something she isn't?

    Get naked on stage and dance - then you're a stripper. That's it, as far as I'm concerned.

    I'm a stripper, I wouldn't call myself a burlesque dancer. That would be ridiculous. I don't wear those extravagant costumes, I don't make a big deal out of slowly taking off one glove, I take off all my clothes and I dance with the intention of turning my audience on. That is a different skill and a different art form to burlesque, and vice versa.

    Burlesque dancers claiming to be "strippers' just for the shock value and to get more PR really, really annoy me.
    Dita - you are not a stripper. Sorry, sweetheart. You are a beautiful, talented burlesque artist. Deal with it.

    I think what we should realise is that burlesque dancers calling themselves strippers are just cashing in on what we collectively build in terms of sexual power and energy and cultural fascination every single night as strippers.
    Personally, that annoys me.

    This is just my opinion. I have nothing against burlesque dancers, I just don't like them calling themselves strippers.
    I'd like to know if anyone feels the same way...
    Last edited by CanadaGirlq; 04-14-2013 at 07:16 AM. Reason: spelling ;)

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    Default Re: Strippers vs Burlesque Dancers

    When burlesque dancers start giving lapdances and hustling guys on stage for tips - basically when they stop doing it for performance sake and start doing it for a job - I will consider them to be strippers. In the meantime, they are just coopting our title without dealing with the stigma and I think that is very NOT okay.

    If you want to be a stripper, be a stripper. Until then, you are a burlesque dancer. There is a difference between doing something because you like doing it and doing it for a job. I love fucking but I would never call myself a prostitute (unless I was getting paid for it) because I don't have to deal with the stigma that prostitutes deal with. I don't face the struggles that they do and for me to start using that title would be really wrong. If I wanted to call myself a prostitute I would get paid for sex. Until then, I'm just a girl who loves to fuck.

    There's a difference between performance and job and there's a reason why people don't cross those lines. They either don't want to deal with the risks, the stigma, the challenges, or the uncertainty that comes along with these jobs. I personally see no problem with prostitution and fully intend on being an escort in the future. In the meantime I am not going to start using language that makes people think that I am in on a club that I'm not in on.
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