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Thread: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

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    Default horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    An obsessed customer apparently walked into the club, tried to get a dancer whom he purchased dances from to go off premises with him, and then shot her in the face and then shot himself when she turned him down.

    He's dead, she's in critical condition. Club doesn't have metal detectors or pat-down searches.

    I am just hoping that clubs get more serious about security. Dancers and customers both need and want a safe environment. And my thoughts are with this dancer fighting for her life.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Goddamn. If there's any info on fundraising for her medical expenses, I would love to know. This is fucking tragic. Amidst everything else going on, in the last couple of days, I'm sure this could go virtually unnoticed, too. I think it's hugely important to come together and support her (and her family), through this. Sometimes, we're all we've got.

    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ire&id=9069755
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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    ^I could definitely see it going unnoticed as well. What a horrible situation. That's so scary because I've never worked in a club with metal detectors or pat downs. My club has a track record of being safe, but there's one over the river that often has gun issues. Very unnerving!

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Horrible! This is beyond tragic. I hope the dancer recovers.

    I have had a long standing fear of this kind of situation. I worry about guys bringing guns, knives, blades, etc. into the club. The clubs I've worked at don't check customers, there are no metal detectors... and goodness knows, there are more than a few nuts that walk through the door.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Horrible! This is beyond tragic. I hope the dancer recovers.

    I have had a long standing fear of this kind of situation. I worry about guys bringing guns, knives, blades, etc. into the club. The clubs I've worked at don't check customers, there are no metal detectors... and goodness knows, there are more than a few nuts that walk through the door.
    a few nuts.. a lot of nuts come through the doors! and doormen aren't trained to look for guns etc. a lot of club owners and managers need to take some lessons in threat assessment and management.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Let this be a lesson to those who think it's OK to tell customers they love them or lead them on so damn much for a little bit of money. I am not assuming that is what this girl did but if you have to pretend you want more than a business relationship with a customer, not only do you have no game, things like this can happen.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoX View Post
    Let this be a lesson to those who think it's OK to tell customers they love them or lead them on so damn much for a little bit of money. I am not assuming that is what this girl did but if you have to pretend you want more than a business relationship with a customer, not only do you have no game, things like this can happen.
    ^^

    No, dude... just... NO. This is not an instance of misleading a customer. It is completely fucked up to imply, "If you do XYZ over some much time, don't be surprised if the guy SHOOTS YOU IN THE FACE." This guy was obviously a Grade-A psychopath. We're strippers, not criminal pathologists! No one could have seen this coming and we'll never know what led up to it, since the asshole killed himself and she'll be lucky to make it through to talk about it. How could you speculate as to how she negotiated her relationship and boundaries with her customer? No one deserves what happened to that woman. It could have happened to anyone at any time. It is morbid and wrong to blame her for nearly being murdered in her own workplace.
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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    I wonder if the club is going to do anything nice for her (pay med bills, flowers, host a fundraiser, etc.)...

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    this is tragic and scary!! i just posted it on facebook and some jackass responded with " man shoots dancer then himself..with a LOOOAAADDD." ugh. why do people think its ok to make fun of death and injury as long as it has to do with strippers? fuckn pig.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by vivianbear View Post
    ^^

    No, dude... just... NO. This is not an instance of misleading a customer. It is completely fucked up to imply, "If you do XYZ over some much time, don't be surprised if the guy SHOOTS YOU IN THE FACE." This guy was obviously a Grade-A psychopath. We're strippers, not criminal pathologists! No one deserves what happened to that woman. It could have happened to anyone at any time. It is morbid and wrong to blame her for nearly being murdered in her own workplace.
    Yeah. In addition, we have no inkling of what happened (the Riverside Press Enterprise's story this morning says that the police haven't determined a motive yet, so we don't even know if the initial reports as to him demanding off-the-club activity are right; all we know is she was shot at the conclusion of a lap dance) and even if we were absolutely sure that this dancer had been hustling the customer, it's in terrible taste to be talking about this when she's lying in a hospital bed with a bullet wound in her face.

    What we do know-- and I know this personally, because I have gone to the club-- is that the only security at the Spearmint Rhino Rialto is a beefy bouncer up front and another one at the entrance to the lap dance area. No pat downs, no metal detectors, and once you are back in the lap dance area, very little "checking up" is done.

    We know that creeps are going to go to strip clubs. We know that there are some unstable people. And yes, I am sure that there are also going to be some dancers who, at one time or another, make an error in judgment about a dangerous customer. That's all part of the mix and there's no way to stop any of that from happening. But what can be done that would have prevented this is better security. Yes, it may be a bit of a pain to get searched before coming into the club, but it's good for the dancers AND good for the customers if nobody can take a gun into a strip club. A safe environment is a fun environment for the customers and an environment where dancers can make money.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by vivianbear View Post
    ^^

    No, dude... just... NO. This is not an instance of misleading a customer. It is completely fucked up to imply, "If you do XYZ over some much time, don't be surprised if the guy SHOOTS YOU IN THE FACE." This guy was obviously a Grade-A psychopath. We're strippers, not criminal pathologists! No one could have seen this coming and we'll never know what led up to it, since the asshole killed himself and she'll be lucky to make it through to talk about it. How could you speculate as to how she negotiated her relationship and boundaries with her customer? No one deserves what happened to that woman. It could have happened to anyone at any time. It is morbid and wrong to blame her for nearly being murdered in her own workplace.
    I agree with you but I clearly said I am not assuming this was the situation here but there has been a few too many incidents in my own club where the dancer gave empty promises for money and drove the customer crazy. I was just saying be careful how you deal with customers- we are already at risk, don't make it worst.

    And I never said she deserved it.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    this is tragic and scary!! i just posted it on facebook and some jackass responded with " man shoots dancer then himself..with a LOOOAAADDD." ugh. why do people think its ok to make fun of death and injury as long as it has to do with strippers? fuckn pig.
    People think it's okay to crack jokes about harming us for the same reasons they think it's okay to blame us when some psycho or sadist attempts to stalk and murder us. I'll also say not only does that comment mock her near-fatal assault, it also alludes to sexually violating her! We, as sex workers, are seen as less than in literally every capacity in this society. We're treated as unworthy of respect as professionals who make money and pay taxes. We're treated as deserving of sexual violations of all kinds, for the sake of gratifying men and for everyone's entertainment. We're treated as responsible for our own deaths, when we're preyed upon, terrorized and finally killed in spaces we frequent every single day. This is disgusting. It infuriates me.

    I can't begin to imagine how strong she's being, for pulling through this in critical condition. I've never experienced anything close to this but I've been incapacitated after a severe trauma and facial damage. It changed my entire life and took years of reparative therapy, treatments, and surgeries to be made whole, again. I hope this woman pulls through and can lead her life as she deserves.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoX View Post
    I agree with you but I clearly said I am not assuming this was the situation here but there has been a few too many incidents in my own club where the dancer gave empty promises for money and drove the customer crazy. I was just saying be careful how you deal with customers- we are already at risk, don't make it worst.

    And I never said she deserved it.
    Seriously? Re-read what you wrote. Starting a statement with "Let this be a lesson..." totally implies that you think she should have somehow foreseen and be prepared for this situation. You totally speculated about her behavior and "leading customers on". This is nothing like anything that you've seen happen among dancers at your club. Even saying a dancer giving "empty promises" (what does that even mean?) somehow makes her responsible for having "drove the customer crazy" is ludicrous. Because that customer was totally not damaged goods from DAY ONE? That is the essence of victim-blaming. We cannot "make it worse" and we are never responsible for the violence that is perpetuated against us. You ARE suggesting that she deserved it. Frankly, it's presumptuous and that's what is making it worse for all of us.
    Last edited by vivianbear; 04-18-2013 at 11:30 AM.
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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoX View Post
    I agree with you but I clearly said I am not assuming this was the situation here but there has been a few too many incidents in my own club where the dancer gave empty promises for money and drove the customer crazy. I was just saying be careful how you deal with customers- we are already at risk, don't make it worst.

    And I never said she deserved it.
    Whether you said she "deserved" it or not, this is not the time for a sermon on that issue. If the thread were "customer gets into an argument with stripper who misled him with false promises", we could have that discussion.

    But not here. This is a woman who was doing her job and got shot in the face at the end of a lap dance. And it could have been prevented if the management of the club had taken simple steps to protect her, the other dancers, the club employees, and the customers.

    This woman is in a hospital bed with a bullet wound in her face. Whatever her interactions with her customer may have been, her employer failed to live up to its obligations to protect her and provide her with a safe work environment. And to say that a customer has no right whatsoever to so much as pull a gun on a dancer, much less shoot her, no matter what she might have said to him in the past, is a vast understatement.

    The lesson here is about security at the club and making sure that this sort of thing can't happen. Because the nature of the business is that there is always going to be the possibility that the customer is a creep and a threat who needs to be locked up, and hustling and implying the customer is going to get more than he actually will is part of the business is well (and is harmless when the customer is not a misogynist creep). This woman did not fail. The system failed her.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    This is sad.
    The only reason my club has a metal detector is because a customer shot a girl (in the leg, I believe) after sneaking into VIP and seeing her with another customer. (She lived.)
    You never hear of strippers shooting or attacking customers... that's because we aren't the ones with a problem. Never forget that sociopaths and psychopaths are out there. They don't care about anyone but themselves, so shooting and killing others for trivial/no reasons sounds logical. Ugh. I hope she pulls through ok.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Sigh..

    All I was saying is be careful with how you deal with customers! Maybe it sounded a little harsh but I was just trying to get straight to the point. I never said this was her fault or any dancers fault if something happens to them, I am saying you do not know what kind of people you are dealing with! I AM NOT VICTIM BLAMING! Clearly, he is a fucking nut job and a dancer can never really know a customer of what kind of shit he is capable of! Just because it's not like anything I've seen in the club DOESN'T mean it has to escalate to that! "Let this be a lesson..." as in this is an example! And my GOD, I was not and did not say she deserved it. Just because I'm not all "OMG poor girl...." doesn't mean I am blaming her.

    Again, let me re-word what I was trying to say: We deal with so many people in a risky environment. The environment that we are in makes us all vulnerable. Keep your guard up, don't play foolish games because you never know a psyco until a trigger is pulled BECAUSE THINGS LIKE THIS CAN HAPPEN! And I've seen it happen! You can have all the security in the world but you are never FULLY PROTECTED SO PROTECT YOURSELF!
    Last edited by JoJoX; 04-18-2013 at 12:43 PM.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
    Whether you said she "deserved" it or not, this is not the time for a sermon on that issue. If the thread were "customer gets into an argument with stripper who misled him with false promises", we could have that discussion.

    But not here. This is a woman who was doing her job and got shot in the face at the end of a lap dance. And it could have been prevented if the management of the club had taken simple steps to protect her, the other dancers, the club employees, and the customers.

    This woman is in a hospital bed with a bullet wound in her face. Whatever her interactions with her customer may have been, her employer failed to live up to its obligations to protect her and provide her with a safe work environment. And to say that a customer has no right whatsoever to so much as pull a gun on a dancer, much less shoot her, no matter what she might have said to him in the past, is a vast understatement.

    The lesson here is about security at the club and making sure that this sort of thing can't happen. Because the nature of the business is that there is always going to be the possibility that the customer is a creep and a threat who needs to be locked up, and hustling and implying the customer is going to get more than he actually will is part of the business is well (and is harmless when the customer is not a misogynist creep). This woman did not fail. The system failed her.
    It's not the time? So when is it? So the purpose of this thread was to be like "Aww poor girl" rather than up for discussion? I thought it was very important to point out that we need to be careful with how we deal with people. That does not mean that we are all at fault, that just means you just don't know know a person.

    My dancer friend had a knife pulled out on her in one of my old clubs- I AM NOT SAYING IT IS HER FAULT (dammit) or she "failed" but she did open herself up to him- phone calls here n there, texts, facebook friends, it became a little more than a business relationship. He was a regular of hers and no one saw it coming. It is NOT HER FAULT. She wasnt leading him on but some girls DO throw the "love" word around. I, myself, made that mistake. A guy waited for me in the back parking lot at the Rhino and followed me to Walmart (this was at like 9am)

    Oh god, please, don't say US dancers deserve to be shot at and harassed. Cuz that is NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    This is an ultra sensitive topic...This is crazy...I am very sorry to hear about this dancer...No matter what the exchange is in a club, there is never a reason that calls for a dancer to be shot over something as minimal as a lapdance..U never can say with customers what they will do..There is no guage to tell what they will do..Many of us have to give the illusion that we are available--- thats a huge part of this job if ur any good at it..The sleaze skank approach isnt always going to work for all customers...I am not personally attacking anyone on this post..I simply must say this is a horrible, horrible situation..I really hope the dancer recovers..

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
    And it could have been prevented if the management of the club had taken simple steps to protect her, the other dancers, the club employees, and the customers...her employer failed to live up to its obligations to protect her and provide her with a safe work environment.
    ^Regardless of what happened between the customer and the dancer, this is the bottom line. ALL clubs should do this, yet I've only ever worked at 2 in my many years of dancing that actually do this .

    And, who knows what was said between the customer and the dancer...it may have been as simple as, "I don't see anyone OTC, sorry, but we can have fun here" or "I'll think about it" or, "I have to go on stage now" or "The weather was nice today"...if someone is THAT unstable anything and anyone could "set them off" at anytime.
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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoX View Post
    Let this be a lesson to those who think it's OK to tell customers they love them or lead them on so damn much for a little bit of money. I am not assuming that is what this girl did but if you have to pretend you want more than a business relationship with a customer, not only do you have no game, things like this can happen.

    Sorry.


    No dice.


    I wholeheartedly disagree.


    Girls flirt, guys flirt, people lead each other on for whatever reason that is convenient. That goes for folks of every ilk. Not. Just. Strippers.

    You cannot and... must not... blame the dancer. The customer was unstable. He chose to commit an atrocious act of violence to fulfill his deranged and selfish wants.

    Nothing she did warranted the horrendous actions this scumbag perpetrated.

    Her hustle was not an invitation for insanity.


    There are lessons to be learned but they have nothing to do with what you mention. I am sorry but you are wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    I have some good news. My source who works at the club says that the dancer is likely to survive. She will be going in for surgery to reconstruct her jaw.

    Let's all keep her in our thoughts.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Thank you lawdude for the update & warnings for security. We don't need to judge comments made by members that clearly weren't meant to show blame to the dancer. I think we all can agree the dancer wasn't the blame of this incident.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Lawdude wasn't there a thread where you warned hustling could cause a dude to stalk?

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by unbeleavable View Post
    Lawdude wasn't there a thread where you warned hustling could cause a dude to stalk?
    I don't want to rehash that discussion, but it wasn't posted in response to something like this.

    There are plenty of situations where it is absolutely appropriate to discuss different types of hustles, what lines dancers and customers should prudently draw, and anything else. This site is full of those discussions, and there's definitely room for disagreement over those issues. But not when a young woman has been shot in the face and hospitalized and it could have been prevented with simple and common sense precautions by club management.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Seeing how JoJox is a Dancer & might have more insight than you on hustling, she has a point. Was it well placed, no. I didn't see much of a difference in both of your messages & you aren't the one to tell her to be more sympathetic, ignore if you don't like her post.


    Quote Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
    I don't want to rehash that discussion, but it wasn't posted in response to something like this.

    There are plenty of situations where it is absolutely appropriate to discuss different types of hustles, what lines dancers and customers should prudently draw, and anything else. This site is full of those discussions, and there's definitely room for disagreement over those issues. But not when a young woman has been shot in the face and hospitalized and it could have been prevented with simple and common sense precautions by club management.

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    Default Re: horrible tragedy at Spearmint Rhino Rialto tonight

    Seeing how JoJox is a Dancer & might have more insight than you on hustling, she has a point. Was it well placed, no. I didn't see much of a difference in both of your messages & you aren't the one to tell her to be more sympathetic, ignore if you don't like her post.


    Quote Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
    I don't want to rehash that discussion, but it wasn't posted in response to something like this.

    There are plenty of situations where it is absolutely appropriate to discuss different types of hustles, what lines dancers and customers should prudently draw, and anything else. This site is full of those discussions, and there's definitely room for disagreement over those issues. But not when a young woman has been shot in the face and hospitalized and it could have been prevented with simple and common sense precautions by club management.

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