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Thread: Extras in the damn club.

  1. #51
    Veteran Member Liv.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    i never realized that my club was an extras club until i found out that they had condoms behind the bar and customers would proceed to pull there dick out during VIP lapdances and look at me like i didnt get the memo. i remember the first time it happened i went the fuck off. then i found out dancers were giving full service for 50$!! i couldnt believe it . i get solicited for sex on a daily basis and it pisses me off
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsepmet1 View Post

    I hope this thread never stops because it gives me hope that other dancers see what's going on here. I don't feel so alone in my frustration anymore.

    So, what can we do about it? We can refuse to do it and spread the word that it's unacceptable behavior.

    What we really need are managers and bouncers on our side that care about the future of our industry, not just their pocketbooks.
    I too hope this thread goes on for as long as is necessary. I stayed out of it to avoid being called 'anti sex worker' or 'in denial' or anything else that I've been accused of in the past. This thread is why I have the firm belief that most dancers are performers and not sex workers. This is precisely what I meant.

    There is a massive difference between the experience of an escort and the experience of a dancer. Dancers aren't easygoing about being groped and grabbed and forcefully touched/penetrated/etc. An escort charges with those behaviors in mind and is cool with it. Seduction and actual sex are two very different things. I too would love to see johns get out of the club and onto the phone/computer to make their connections and leave dancers out of it.

    Club managers and owners are running the industry into the ground. There are less guys coming to the clubs because they're chasing a smaller percentage of customers. There are a helluva lot more people willing to pay for entertainment than sexual services. What the top actors make, top singers make, etc. blows away what the top escorts make. We're talking 100s of millions for very "clean" entertainment. But a handful of short sighted people get their little payoffs and could care less about the survival of the industry.

    My club, for instance went from having a permanent line out the door for couch dances and for the 25 VIP booths!!! Now in season, you can go in any time with no wait. What's catering to the predatory customer done for the club? Not much. The guys who want entertainment can't be bothered with coming in because they don't want to see a man breast feeding across from him. It's grotesque. Who goes to a club to dance and then wants to see a random guy clawing the breast of a chick who's looks like she's squeamishly or drunkenly tolerating it. Two very different customers.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    This really makes me wish there were more peep shows. It's like camming, but without the risk that millions of people will see your images online (due to either illegal distribution or tons of faceless people entering your chat room).

    I would LOVE to work in a peep show! They still exist, but they're quite rare, and the ones that're still out there tend to be super, super sketchy. They tend to be in terrible parts of town and have equally horrible management...

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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    I too hope this thread goes on for as long as is necessary. I stayed out of it to avoid being called 'anti sex worker' or 'in denial' or anything else that I've been accused of in the past. This thread is why I have the firm belief that most dancers are performers and not sex workers. This is precisely what I meant.
    I completely hear what you're saying; I see both sides of the 'debate.'

    Personally, I identify as a sex worker. It's partially a solidarity thing for me. It's partially because society lumps all of us together, and I'm totally cool with that. It's partly because I've dabbled in nearly all sub-genres of this industry (though I've primarily stripped). And it's partly because I'm a privileged, well-off white chick who gets off on throwing it in bigoted people's faces that it's possible to thrive off of the sex industry without becoming a negative stereotype. Even better if they then assume I've only dabbled in the industry, or that I was "just" a stripper. Neeeeeope.

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    Veteran Member Artema's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    ^It's a useful perspective - when working, it's best to ignore extras.

    However, as this is a support forum, all are allowed to vent. If the thread topic bothers you, then unsubscribe from it.
    Yep. But I had an opinion/suggestion. Aren't we allowed to have those? I just choose to deal with issues that bother me in a different way. Whatever I feel is more constructive. Never did I suggest to ignore extras, point blank. Quite the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsepmet1 View Post
    I hope this thread never stops because it gives me hope that other dancers see what's going on here. I don't feel so alone in my frustration anymore.

    So, what can we do about it? We can refuse to do extras and spread the word that it's unacceptable behavior.

    What we really need are managers and bouncers on our side that care about the future of our industry, not just their pocketbooks.
    I can see that refusing to do extras and spreading the word that it's unacceptable would make some impact. Sadly it would take awhile (perhaps to the point where it would be too late) for managers and bouncers to understand how it will ultimately 'downgrade' a once very profitable industry.

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    Veteran Member Artema's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    But a handful of short sighted people get their little payoffs and could care less about the survival of the industry.
    Too bad we can't vote off bad management. Management is the one that turns a blind eye. They don't give a hoot as long as they get $$$$ Money always wins and is truly (okay in some scenarios) the root of all evil. I wonder how they sleep at night...

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  12. #57
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artema View Post
    Too bad we can't vote off bad management. Management is the one that turns a blind eye. They don't give a hoot as long as they get $$$$ Money always wins and is truly the root of all evil. I wonder how they sleep at night...
    Totally agreed. I think they're in denial. They operate under the attitude of "whatever the girls are comfortable with is fine!" and don't pay attention to the repercussions of that attitude.

    Begs the question...it's so easy to vilify the girls for providing extras, but isn't management the core of the problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    I completely hear what you're saying; I see both sides of the 'debate.' Personally, I identify as a sex worker. It's partially a solidarity thing for me. It's partially because society lumps all of us together, and I'm totally cool with that. It's partly because I've dabbled in nearly all sub-genres of this industry (though I've primarily stripped). And it's partly because I'm a privileged, well-off white chick who gets off on throwing it in bigoted people's faces that it's possible to thrive off of the sex industry without becoming a negative stereotype. Even better if they then assume I've only dabbled in the industry, or that I was "just" a stripper. Neeeeeope.
    +1. Solidarity and autonomy.

    I don't do "extras" but have dabbled here and there in other sex worker endeavours. I've worked at some of the dirtiest clubs in my city and now work at one of the cleanest. I didn't change anything in my private dances. Dirty clubs generate patrons, and I still make the rules there, not my coworkers or my patrons. I made good "clean" money in those semen drenched VIPs. So what if I had to get some tetanus shots, I manned up and got over it.

    Sex-work of any type for me, is about autonomy. Dancers can work when they want, walk away from customers they don't like, and draw their own boundaries about what is acceptable during a dance. Same for street workers (not completely, but still very similar in terms of autonomy only). Escorts and massage girls get stuck with undesirable custies but don't have to hustle. Web cam girls enjoy safety and zero contact but risk losing anonymity. You get my drift.

    Holy digression. Hopefully a useful one. Anyway. If one has a serious problem with extras in the club, I feel like the solution is so simple...

    DON'T WORK AT AN EXTRAS CLUB(!!!) These things ought to be and, I think, largely ARE dictated by management. If they happen regularly enough to mess with your cash, it's a management issue. A few girls slipping through the cracks here and there aren't going to have a substantial effect on your income.

    I understand the THEORETICAL debate about the distinction between strippers and sex providers and what the THEORETICAL rules of a club should be for girls who want to strictly "dance" (or dry hump, provide over the pants action etc. etc., choose your level of slut) But practically, those distinctions mean very little. They just aren't useful in real world situations.

    So why stomp all over someone who does something you wouldn't be willing to do? I don't wear Uggz. You guys keep coming to work in all manner of Uggz. Does it matter? No, this entire paragraph was unnecessary and served no purpose to anyone. Go on witcha bad self in your sparkly ass Uggz, keep on.

    Let's not perpetuate stereotypes and the duality/hierarchies of 'dirty to clean(er)'. We could do that ad infinitum for prostitutes alone, nevermind the entire adult industry.

    But yeah. What she said. Solidarity and respect for autonomy.

    Anyway clearly sobriety is awful. Lets try not overanalyze here. Yeah yeah TLDR. I still hate your Uggz.

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    Featured Member Tsepmet1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Sometimes it isn't as easy as switching clubs. Sometimes you have to switch cities/counties/states, and that's not a viable option for many dancers.

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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    ^
    DON'T WORK AT AN EXTRAS CLUB(!!!) These things ought to be and, I think, largely ARE dictated by management. If they happen regularly enough to mess with your cash, it's a management issue. A few girls slipping through the cracks here and there aren't going to have a substantial effect on your income.
    The thing is people might not have the option to switch to a cleaner club depending on the city they live in and whether extras are rampant there, whether they can get hired at a cleaner club, transportation issues, or just their life circumstances so I understand people coming here to vent their frustrations.

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  19. #61
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsepmet1 View Post
    Sometimes it isn't as easy as switching clubs. Sometimes you have to switch cities/counties/states, and that's not a viable option for many dancers.
    Yes, this exactly.

    I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where I can sort of bounce around from club to club, with varying levels of reputation. Not everyone can do this.

    As much as I would love to pack my bags and move somewhere else, which I really want to do, I have to stay put for now because of other commitments I have to take care of.

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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    To the last two posters. I can dig. It would be frustrating if the only club in your city was an extras club/brothel and you really just wanted to do clean dances at a clean club. It just is what it is, I guess.

    I just don't understand the calls to unite (in similar threads) and make stripping "clean" again. In the 80's Toronto dancers carried around little boxes they'd stand on, and dance at tables in front of customers at tables. Well I live in Toronto circa now, where air dancing is no longer a thing. It practically doesn't exist anywhere and nobody does it. I think a huge part of being a successful dancer is being adaptive to changes in environment/times/mental states...and so on.

    But I get it would be frustrating if you had NO choice. I don't think that every dancer complaining lacks the option to leave a dirty club though.

    Not trying to be unsympathetic or argumentative. Just tempering with a different perspective.

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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    I'm amazed by how well this thread is going. With such an impassioned title, I thought it'd be down in the first page.


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  23. #64
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    I'm amazed by how well this thread is going. With such an impassioned title, I thought it'd be down in the first page.

    I just have a way with words, ya know?

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  25. #65
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejayleeh View Post
    +1. Solidarity and autonomy.

    I don't do "extras" but have dabbled here and there in other sex worker endeavours. I've worked at some of the dirtiest clubs in my city and now work at one of the cleanest. I didn't change anything in my private dances. Dirty clubs generate patrons, and I still make the rules there, not my coworkers or my patrons. I made good "clean" money in those semen drenched VIPs. So what if I had to get some tetanus shots, I manned up and got over it.
    Extras girls undercut what is legal in the clubs. If they want solidarity, why not prostitute outside the club. That is a valid option that they don't exercise because they want to exploit our, dancers, working environment e.g. the legal status and security and flow of customers we pay to create. That's not solidarity, that's exploitation.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejayleeh View Post
    Sex-work of any type for me, is about autonomy. Dancers can work when they want, walk away from customers they don't like, and draw their own boundaries about what is acceptable during a dance. Same for street workers (not completely, but still very similar in terms of autonomy only). Escorts and massage girls get stuck with undesirable custies but don't have to hustle. Web cam girls enjoy safety and zero contact but risk losing anonymity. You get my drift.
    Once extras girls have become entrenched and proliferated, the number of "clean" customers goes down and the number of johns goes up. Dancers are now forced to deal with the risks that the street walkers in your example have to face. You could draw your own boundaries but if half your coworkers are breaking club rules and the law they have changed the context of your working environment. They should take responsibility for bringing abusive demeaning elements into the workplace of their "sisters", right? Yet they rarely do.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejayleeh View Post
    Holy digression. Hopefully a useful one. Anyway. If one has a serious problem with extras in the club, I feel like the solution is so simple...

    DON'T WORK AT AN EXTRAS CLUB(!!!) These things ought to be and, I think, largely ARE dictated by management. If they happen regularly enough to mess with your cash, it's a management issue. A few girls slipping through the cracks here and there aren't going to have a substantial effect on your income.
    OR extras girls could go work OUTSIDE the club. Funny how it's often it's suggested WE leave OUR clubs. We built this industry and parasites have settled in and claimed to want our sisterhood in their struggle, then get established and order us out. Condescend to say that if you are not comfortable working on a "jizz soaked VIP couch" that you are childish

    Quote Originally Posted by thejayleeh View Post
    I understand the THEORETICAL debate about the distinction between strippers and sex providers and what the THEORETICAL rules of a club should be for girls who want to strictly "dance" (or dry hump, provide over the pants action etc. etc., choose your level of slut) But practically, those distinctions mean very little. They just aren't useful in real world situations.
    In the "real world" prostitution is illegal. There's nothing theoretical about that. In the real world bouncers and managers on the take destroy the industry. Revenue numbers aren't up over the years of increased extras, their down. Just like the banking crisis, a handful of people have hijacked the industry and will continue to drive it into the ground. This is not because they are cool gals and guys just doing their thing. This is because they are selfish, greedy, and could give a damn about their fellow workers as long as they can keep twisting the existing system.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejayleeh View Post

    So why stomp all over someone who does something you wouldn't be willing to do?
    I don't wear Uggz. You guys keep coming to work in all manner of Uggz. Does it matter? No, this entire paragraph was unnecessary and served no purpose to anyone. Go on witcha bad self in your sparkly ass Uggz, keep on.

    Let's not perpetuate stereotypes and the duality/hierarchies of 'dirty to clean(er)'. We could do that ad infinitum for prostitutes alone, nevermind the entire adult industry.

    But yeah. What she said. Solidarity and respect for autonomy.

    Anyway clearly sobriety is awful. Lets try not overanalyze here. Yeah yeah TLDR. I still hate your Uggz.
    Either you open your mouth, complain, and save yourself when people pretend to be your friend as they degrade your working environment or you roll over and let them destroy it. You're talking loud, wy wouldn't we?
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    This thread keeps getting sadder and sadder. The reality which many miss is when a club goes from a clean club to extras ridden, not only does the standards of dancers goes down, so does the standard of customers. I have often talked about a club I worked at where this happened and it changed the club. I was one of the top dancers at this club and would regularly leave with over $200, and usually closer to $400 (which probably sounds low but am talking no contact club where dances were $5 bikini and no champagne room). The one manager (I blame them for this problem to be honest)started getting greedy and hired any dancer who walked in the door. It didn't help this club was near a notorious streetwalker corner. These "dancers" started doing extras outside and eventually inside. The decent customers were replaced by scum and the money started drying up if you didn't do extras. Eventually the club was closed for prostitution. I resent these dancers and the manager because it forced me to quit a lucrative club because it became quite dangerous and disgusting. So no, sorry don't have much sympathy for extras dancers. If you can't make money from dancing you shouldn't be dancing.

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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    This thread keeps getting sadder and sadder. The reality which many miss is when a club goes from a clean club to extras ridden, not only does the standards of dancers goes down, so does the standard of customers.
    Great point.

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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artema View Post
    Too bad we can't vote off bad management. Management is the one that turns a blind eye. They don't give a hoot as long as they get $$$$ Money always wins and is truly (okay in some scenarios) the root of all evil. I wonder how they sleep at night...
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    Totally agreed. I think they're in denial. They operate under the attitude of "whatever the girls are comfortable with is fine!" and don't pay attention to the repercussions of that attitude.

    Begs the question...it's so easy to vilify the girls for providing extras, but isn't management the core of the problem?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    This thread keeps getting sadder and sadder. The reality which many miss is when a club goes from a clean club to extras ridden, not only does the standards of dancers goes down, so does the standard of customers. I have often talked about a club I worked at where this happened and it changed the club. I was one of the top dancers at this club and would regularly leave with over $200, and usually closer to $400 (which probably sounds low but am talking no contact club where dances were $5 bikini and no champagne room). The one manager (I blame them for this problem to be honest)started getting greedy and hired any dancer who walked in the door. It didn't help this club was near a notorious streetwalker corner. These "dancers" started doing extras outside and eventually inside. The decent customers were replaced by scum and the money started drying up if you didn't do extras. Eventually the club was closed for prostitution. I resent these dancers and the manager because it forced me to quit a lucrative club because it became quite dangerous and disgusting. So no, sorry don't have much sympathy for extras dancers. If you can't make money from dancing you shouldn't be dancing.
    I agree with y'all. Both parties are responsible. Smart clubowners up their game without cheap illegal compromises, others go "dirty" and watch the business spiral down.
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    I'm amazed by how well this thread is going. With such an impassioned title, I thought it'd be down in the first page.

    Great debating without it getting personal. Ya gotta love it!
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artema View Post
    We can complain about extras until we're blue in the face. Is that really going to make them stop? Let me know if it does. I however think it's just drawing more attention..perhaps even encouragement?.. to extras going on. Why don't we discuss what we CAN do to eliminate/avoid/deal with the issue?
    Lol the point of sharing these perspectives and experiences is so the OP doesn't feel alone, and doesn't feel like SHE is doing something wrong. The point is that SHE is not the one fucking up, its the other girls doing extras! It changes the dynamic of the club and club customers, and becomes impossible to make money. That can really fuck with your head- especially if your club is #1 or #2 on the list, because you may not even realize extras are occurring in your club if it appears clean at first glance.

    Sure, nothing will come of complaining about it (no, it won't change), but it can give you peace of mind to realize what is happening, and realize that YOU are not a bad hustler. Certain clubs/areas should be avoided completely.



    Quote Originally Posted by thejayleeh View Post
    But I get it would be frustrating if you had NO choice. I don't think that every dancer complaining lacks the option to leave a dirty club though.
    Many don't have a choice though, when all are openly dirty or closeted-dirty and flooded with girls. Places like SF and I would imagine LA, there really are no clean clubs for a lot of dancers. And a lot of the ones that appear clean or nice, extras STILL go on (#1 or #2 on my list on the last page), the girls are just sneaky about it.

    What about girls who are in school, or have families in the area? They can't just up and move locations. I was in school, I couldn't move. And that was before I discovered camming. I mean, it wasn't THAT bad, but it was just draining and competing with girls offering different things than I was. And then when I travel danced it was sooooo easy in comparison.



    Quote Originally Posted by Liv. View Post
    i never realized that my club was an extras club until i found out that they had condoms behind the bar and customers would proceed to pull there dick out during VIP lapdances and look at me like i didnt get the memo. i remember the first time it happened i went the fuck off. then i found out dancers were giving full service for 50$!! i couldnt believe it . i get solicited for sex on a daily basis and it pisses me off
    That was totally my experience! A lot of clubs don't look dirty upon first glance, and many don't even have dirty reputations! So you just don't know! Many of those clubs have ~*classy*~ reputations too. Its a mindfuck. It takes working there for a few months til you really see it in action or notice strange things (like in your case, the condom thing).

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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    I remember...when extras first started happening in my cute little neighborhood dive, I felt SO alone. And I felt like something beautiful was being destroyed. Threads like these helped me recover my sanity, truly.

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  36. #72
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    I'd really like a customer/manager/bouncer/VIP host/waitress take on this...

    Does it mess with their heads like it messes with ours?

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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    ^Oh, I'm sure it does. The problem here is MONEY. The majority of people make more money if they just avert their eyes (unless the club gets busted).

    I'm wondering if there are still clubs out there where you can make $500+ a night doing air dances. I'm not kidding - those clubs should be case studies that can then be replicated. Do they have to be in smaller, wealthy towns that only have 1-2 clubs total? Can a club like this exist in an extras-ridden city, as long as it has solid management? Are these dives? Are these only upscale clubs?

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  39. #74
    Newbie thejayleeh's Avatar
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    This is a fantastic thread and I really want to reply but I have to work and avoid homelessness as fascinating as this has been. Blah.

    I too, was literally booted out of a super busy and lucrative club by extras girls and shady management (it was a known extras club though) and want to share that story and respond to the recent posts here when I have a moment to compose a thoughtful response. Really want to share my perspective on that. And how it relates to the larger debate about extras in the club. I tried to share it on the custy forum but nobody really cared.

    I'd like to see more perspectives in this thread too -- management, staff, girls who do extras etc. It's intellectually fascinating, though I know this was just a venting/commiseration thread about the slow death of the strip club industry (as we know it) and threatened livelihoods.

    My academic specialization is in socio-legal theory and the sex trade, particularly the contestations of space involved the sex trade, so I really love seeing this thread in action.

    I hope everyone has a lucrative weekend, no matter what they choose to do at their club.

    J.

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  41. #75
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    Default Re: Extras in the damn club.

    Quote Originally Posted by thejayleeh View Post

    My academic specialization is in socio-legal theory and the sex trade, particularly the contestations of space involved the sex trade, so I really love seeing this thread in action.

    J.
    Don't mind me while I hump your leg.

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