Just thought I'd share this provider-side experience. Apologies if it's old news.
Just thought I'd share this provider-side experience. Apologies if it's old news.
"In fact, the clients who I have the hardest time doing my job with are the ones who make the biggest deal out of having my enthusiastic consent. Maybe they want me to tell them what I want (which should more honestly be described as what they want me to want) or maybe they ask for constant feedback on their cunnilingus skills. Maybe they refer to how they were driving me crazy, when I was really writhing in pain thanks to their untrimmed fingernails, and I have to bite my tongue and let them expound on their delusion. Maybe, as was the case with one guy, he takes me on dates where nothing physical happens because when we finally have sex, he wants to “know” it’s because I “want” him, not because he’s paying me. I don’t expect non sex workers to understand this, but I bet many other sex workers reading this feels down to her bones what a grotesque demand that was. Some clients want a good-natured disposition, pleasant company, and a willingness to indulge them physically. They understand the terms of the transaction, and they’re happy to behave accordingly. Other men are so desperately lonely, so insecure, and so floundering in their lives and in themselves, that they want a piece of your soul. (“What’s your real name? Do you like that, (real name)?”)"
^ I was so caught up on this part I couldn't even continue.
Wow is it me or does this seem to be in every sex industry job? I keep having guys take me private and saying "what's your real name?"
I've also see it the same complaint from dancers and I used to have some guy that would yell on phone when I just gave him another fake name.
I find something is wrong when a man enters the sex industry to pay for it in one way or the other then demands authenticity.
It's as if he wants to act like he's giving money as a gift rather then believing without the money she wouldn't be there.




As a previous escort and current cam girl you are spot on Cherry. There are guys like that in all forms of sex work. They are the worst and the ones I cut off and refuse to see. It's not worth the mental distress.




The perfect escort customer is respectful and understands that it is a unilateral business transaction. It is a service, not dating.
I want YOU to tell me/show me what you want so I can give it to you as quickly and in the best possible most pleasurable way. I want YOU to be happy so that I can see you again to make more money and that you will write a good review for me. Your happiness is my happiness.
I was also in a relationship while I was an escort, so to me anything that would be described above would have been considering cheating. Too intimate.
I loved being an escort, I really did, so don't think my response was implying that I didn't enjoy it. I enjoy making people happy. My best customers were the ones I enjoyed good conversation with, were funny and pleasant to be around, but kept everything superficial and surface level. No deep conversations. Similar to stripping
Enjoy it for what it is, nothing more nothing less.
There is a difference between not having empathy and not demanding the person you just paid to have sex with you "enjoy it". These customers are not actually interested in the feelings of the other party, but more with their own ego and sense of entitlement. They are not actually thinking about where you are coming from and how you would like the interaction to go, they are only thinking of how THEY want the interaction to be. It's unfair because these expectations feign concern for the other party when that couldn't be further from the truth, and their expectations are not rooted in the reality of the situation.
A good customer would recognize that it is a business transaction. It's ok to have a good time and get caught up in the fantasy, after all that's what you are paying for, but don't try to make it more than it is, and don't be upset when it isn't that.
You want enthusiastic consent from a partner? Find someone and seduce them. Don't try to demand it from a sex worker in a business transaction.
hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form
I loved that post, like cherry relate to it in every element of the industry Ive been in.The comments section (at least where it is clear it is written by someone in in the industry) for it is equally cathartic. I had dto break it up to absorb it also and clapped to no one in particular at a few parts. The particulars of how or why it makes sense is difficult to break down.
LoveHerButton youre kind of echoing some of the defensiveness some of the comments in that post are getting - why this post resonates so hard with people in the industry is hard to explain unless youve been in the trenches so to speak. I personally cant displace the sense of solidarity I felt with the post/comments to justify hypothetical examples or relationships with certain regulars vs others or specific examples or even give guidelines on the 'solution'. There isnt one. It is just a in-house conversation from people in a certain trade about their trade. I can see why customers or guys interested in women in the industry are handwringing over it and looking for ways to ensure that we understand that they arent that guy or how can they not be that guy or this is how Id suggest you do your job etc etc.... is a bit of an exercise in futility. A few times she said "sex workers will understand how..." and it is difficult to retranslate it so it is more palatable or more understandable to those not in the industry. When you have hundreds if not thousands of customers (depending on the sector of the industry and in varying capacity), it is very hard to pinpoint specific examples or absorb overly granular feedback when the original expressed sentiment is a meta-qualitative analysis of that niche experience.
There are many blogs by Johns. Hell that's what review sites and their forums are. Hobbyists shift the culture of the industry (many adult industries) there is a very different power to being a client of the industry and blogging about it vs blogs like Tits N Sass which are more of a sociological curiosity to those not in the industry, or a forum of catharsis and analysis for those of us in it.There is a distinct power differential between hobbyist internet presence and sex worker internet presence.
When I think through my favorite clients, as in ones who would never ever be a footnote on a rant about burnout - theyre not the ones who spend the heaviest (almost never are) -- definitely arent the ones who spend the least though but theyre the ones who get it. Ive had very long term customers who get it and ones who do not, and many inbetween. I dont make it clear to any group that I prefer the other over the other or thatd be unprofessional, but doesnt mean Im very aware of whose service will be more draining, who is overextending cost of admission, etc. And Ive been in most sectors of the adult industry in some capacity. The ones who get it, arent hung on whether or not I know that they get it or not. Empathy isnt a factor - empathy means you understand the experience, so unless Im servicing someone who used to be in the industry..... empathy isnt a factor at all, and clients who think they have empathy are usually demonstrating 'sympathy' which is usually a "I vicariously but dont really understand and am wayy to caught up to have fun"" boner killer. For both of us. The closest I mean are "excited and fun boundaries'. Still a place for serious and deep conversations within this framework but it is hard to explain the nuances of how... I can think of a few examples where this worked easily and awesome... and others where it became a speedy issue. It isnt an all or nothing dynamic.
IDK where yoda is at but Id bet he'd read this post as a customer, shrug, and move on - because just from his posts he 'gets it'. Ive never had him as a customer but his posts to me often reflect that he 'gets it'. In blogging form (forum participation included) from clients, for me at least, that is rare.IDK why but Id venture to guess most are able to compartmentalize their adult entertainment life and keep it simple so there is no need for long expository analyses or oversharing. Maybe, maybe not. IRL, it is more common but difficult to quantify as again this is more a meta-qualitative analysis to people in the industry by people industry.
The ones who dont get it are anxious about whether or not I know they get it.... or dont even consider what "getting it" is. Ego stroking is part and parcel of this work and isnt a bad thing at all, that's the fun of the fantasy . Nor is the demand to be two lifeless husks not having any eye contact rubbing up against each other and being on our merry way once the timer ends. It isnt a one or the other extreme.
The closest word I can think of is maybe discretion or (internally) healthy iindulgence. IDK, even those make it sound like.... being a spy or eating a fine steak. Her piece as is is awesome, breaking it down feels like a disservice to her writing ability, I guess
Idk, I "grok" that blog entry to the teeth. It feels very tough to come up with a non-industry Cliff Notes version of it. And debating its merits feels like speaking in tongues to an Atheist or something? Im overstating it a bit but Ive seen versions of this "help me understand" discussion in that post's thread and see ppl in the industry struggling to explain but being met with resistance or insistence or idk. So just kind of wanted to echo that sentiment here.
I relate to the article and the comments though I won't get into my personal experiences.
I will use the metaphor of the sweatpants boner man who blows on us and grabs and tweaks and licks and does all these sorts of things because HE likes them. Lunging for our vagina with his nasty tongue does nothing for us, nor does talking about how great his oral skills are. Is it better that he's wearing sweatpants that don't chafe, rather than over-starched jeans (you laugh, but...) sure (so long as sweatpants boner man does not turn into sweatpants wetspot man)-- but acting as if we are supposed to absorb his dirty-talk, and assorted nonsense on something more than a superficial level and REALLY enjoy it?
It's laughable.
The guys I enjoy the most are clean, respectful of my time, are articulate, but don't demand that I enjoy anything. They possibly get on some level that during the whole transaction there is a part of me held separate observing the whole interaction, looking for the minute cues on his face that tell me when to move a certain way or stop doing a certain action and move onto something more pleasurable for him. In terms of being a companion/provider/escort/hooker, I can see how a man demanding oral sex, or trying to really "get off" a woman, all the while talking about his great skills and how he's "not like those other guys" is just as absurd and ego-tistical as those men who I run into almost nightly at the club shift who swear they're "not like those other guys" right off the bat. Do you know what the club guys end up being for the most part? Losers-- time-sinks, ones who come to a strip club and think they're better for being cheap because "they don't pay for dances" or they just want to sit and talk to you about "you" while not paying for your time and this somehow makes them superior to the men who come in and "get it"-- they understand the roles and don't try to subvert them.
Basically, there's a power dynamic between stripper and customer, john and escort-- you pay us and we make it all about you (while observing our particular boundaries.) Don't try to flip the tables and pretend to make it all about us (unless you're paying us extra.) Don't try to see behind to that part of us who's viewing the transaction and trying to make it better for you so all parties are happier. You're just going to interrupt the flow and have a poorer experience if we even decide to dance/sleep/cam for you. The guys who just act "normal", view the transaction for what it is, and allow us to get comfortable with them over time, be it physically or conversationally understand that we decide what we will or won't give you. You don't get to demand that. Doesn't mean we're out to rip you off just because we refuse to give you our real name, or that we're somehow cynical, jaded shrews who are nothing but some stripper/escort stereotype you want to apply to us.
I can also see how, for escorts, just like civilian women out there, men are equating porn life WAY too much with actual sex. I wish guys could see more of the actual FILMING of a porn and how all that stuff is actually not pleasant for the most part, rather than looking at edited hard pounding and thinking that's the way it's supposed to be. Or, just because they've watched this hundreds of times while fwapping off, that's how real sex IS, because OF COURSE, porn is real life, right? I bet that little blonde hussy is just going home right after shooting and wanting to sexually satisfy her husband/boyfriend because she's so horny from all those sex endorphins flooding her system; except really, she's going home and soaking in the bath and putting a heating pad on her lower belly and taking painkillers because holding that pose for 8 retakes sucks, and she's in pain.
Geez, no wonder my old bachelor party boss who escorted on the side said that for her boyfriends she's the most boring lay in the world. Because sexual fantasies nowadays are a fucking circus. They're not real life. Don't stop the show and interrupt the Circus Ringmaster to ask her what she'd really enjoy doing-- because if we say order a pizza, put on sweats, and watch reruns of bad tv, you're going to bitch about that even though that's probably a more "authentic" experience than any "porn" image you have of strippers or escorts.
Just be cool. Be pleasant. Take care of your hygiene. Pay well. Tip if you really liked whatever she did. Tell her thank you. And go see her again. You're not Casanova, we get it. You don't have to be some Don Juan who presses all our buttons and fulfills us completely. Your wife or girlfriend doesn't do that for you (nor, I doubt, do you fulfill all of that for her) so don't expect that. We're both fulfilling a function in this relationship, and no matter the job in the sex industry it's a us fulfilling the function of a sexual fantasy for you, and you fulfilling the function of cash without being an immense pain in the ass for us.
And if you can't take that, just understand you're paying for role-play and you communicate that up-front and pay extra if she charges extra for role play.
"Dear Sugartits;
I'd love to meet with you. However, I want you to pretend that I am a fucking God among men, and I've ruined you for all other dicks... and here's a porn of the script I want us to quasi-follow..."





Girls, I have a different point of view about sex work; as a phone sex operator for the past almost 10 years and I will say I dislike the work. However, I tell myself I am actress and allow for me to do my job. Tell myself that I am a siren and I lure money out of men's checkbooks. I believe that more sex workers need to tell themselves that they are good enough to take all of a man's wallet. Also I work out, listen to sexy music, and get ready to put on a show. I want all sex workers to be happy, take the money, and put on the illusion. Also if you can not put on a great illusion, just take an acting class to show you how to put on a happy face.





Within about two weeks of starting as a DJ thirteen years ago, I realized why I so rarely enjoyed getting the very rare lapdances in previous years' visits to the clubs, but rather much preferred tipping at stage and the occasional table dance. I knew it was fake and that ruined everything for me. Yet I knew better than to demand they like it.
Haven't gotten a dance in the clubs since, except twice friends bought one for me and I couldn't refuse without pissing everyone off. I still tip stage, buy drinks for almost any of them, and sometimes buy girls dances from each other if they are into it. It works for me and keeps the girls happy.
Almost certainly this is one of the most difficult aspects of the stripping (and escort) business. It cannot be easy pretending to like grinding on every guy that pays 20$; yet adopting a cold, mechanical style in self-defense won't be profitable either (though I've seen many a dancer make it work, but they are invariably in the top % of girl lookswise--i.e. they can get away with it with most guys lol).
Kind of like pretending to be all excited about putting women who don't want to dance onstage on shitty nights, but a lot more personal due to the grinding. It requires a great deal more effort as a DJ on slow nights, I have found (and for less money if it's slow of course, kind of a double whammy thing).
I know there's a lot of guys who realized the same thing as I did, but still enjoy it a great deal--more power to them so long as they don't make unreasonable demands for false enthusiasm, etc.
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
George Clinton
______________________________________
I'm not down for women making it very clear that their sexual excitement doesn't really enter into the equation. I actually love giving lapdances-- but there's a range that guys fall on-- groping, grabby guy out to get everything he can on one end, and then there's "I'm not like the other guys" let me pleasure YOU guy (but it's obviously about he's ego because c'mon, we just met and I'm not built like that.)
The guys in the middle are the ones I love dancing for. Sometimes I'm into it because I'm having fun and the music is good, but once the guy starts trying to mind fuck me into having me so sexually turned on, it really puts a damper on the whole thing.
I don't think a lapdance is unenjoyable for most women but there's obviously variables-- do our feet/back/legs hurt? Is the guy a pain in the ass? Is the DJ playing something besides heavy trance/electronic music? no to all three? well then, shit yeah, I'm having a good time dancing for the guy because I like dancing, and being paid to dance is awesome too![]()





^^^It's been very interesting to have to watch cameras of the private dance and Champagne Rooms (so I know who to skip onstage or who might be running a little late, where that missing girl I keep calling is, etc.).
The vast majority of the dances I've seen being given do not look like fun at all to me. But there are some dancers like yourself who seem to enjoy it more (as much as I can tell from the camera anyway) if the guys are respectful, and you can tell it would be a lot more fun. Worst of all, of course, the women who are holding the guys hands the whole time so they can't grope them. I simply do not understand guys like this.
I've also had a few girlfriends who gave me dances outside the clubs, who seemed like they would probably like doing it for a gentleman. Which is kinda cool.![]()
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
George Clinton
______________________________________
I don't have the way to word this because I have not thought it through all the way myself--
however, I do not find giving lap dances sexy for myself. At work, I love the money, and I have fun (because I can pretty much make anything fun and I consider it good exercise. Plus, there is always validation in knowing, whatever your job, that people are enjoying what you are providing, be it service or product.)
When I've tried to give a lapdance at home, it is awkward. I feel that the small part of me observing in order to accommodate the male sexual fantasy pleasure is too clinical, so instead I try to get into it like I'm Jamie Lee Curtis is True Lies and I utterly fail.
I do not hold myself accountable for this. It's no one's fault. It's just that even though I may occasionally sexually fantasize about having a really hot lapdance experience (and making money to boot!) I don't find it sexually pleasureable (or rarely-- maybe once every year or two am I "wowwed" physically during the whole time with the guy.)
If I were to draw a conclusion I guess it would be that HAVING to sexually enjoy something makes it no longer even possible to have anything but an awkward experience. Enjoying one's self as far as one is able without it having to "be" anything than what it is, providing a good service, and getting paid--these are all excellent aspects of the sexual industry that make things pleasant, and provide the groundwork for future experiences that are even more pleasurable as the comfort level increases.





^^^Oh yeah I didn't mean to say that the women "who seem to enjoy it more" or "would probably like doing it for a gentleman" were actually getting aroused. Though I know this does happen with a few dancers sometimes, it's pretty rare.
I meant as more of a sensual/artistic performance feeling.
I got what you were saying. Your writing ability is clear.
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
George Clinton
______________________________________
Also
: It makes me feel bad when guys act as though, unless it's as sexy for me as it is for them, that there's something wrong with the performance-- even though, if the performance stayed the same but my inner experience was different, it would be phenomenal. Or, that I'm just out for their money even though, since it's my job, I wouldn't do it for free. Certain men act as if I have only two options: taking pleasure in it because I'm a gold-digging whore (interesting that the word whore is so synonymous with someone who's just in it for the cash since whore by itself is so sexual) or taking pleasure in it because I'm sexually stimulated.
I'm not directing this at you or anything you said. I'm thinking through how this article and comments relate to my experiences.
I do wonder though, since we went through a wave of emotionally sensitizing males during the 90s if there were always dumb male tiddly-dicks who acted as if they were all about female pleasure when they were anything but (while paying for it, though those who don't pay but act the same way are also dumb tiddly-dicks) or if this is some backlash from the nineties from men who were in puberty or beyond and have just subsumed this vocal mantra of "Female pleasure is important to me." It's always the ones who TALK about it SO MUCH who are annoying. Is it just easier to ignore those who try to do stupid stuff like blow on me when they're not talking incessantly about how they're so great at cunnilingus that they date so many strippers who have told them they're the best they've ever had, blah blah blah, verbal vomitus infinitus.





The guys who go on and on ad nauseum about how important it is to please the woman are actually much more concerned with pumping up their own self-esteem. They really aren't as concerned--deep down--with delivering 'wave after wave of heel pounding, teeth-clenching, pounding the headboard with her skull' orgasms as they are with making sure everyone knows they can do it. Worst of all, the guys who actually believe their own line of shit in this respect.
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
George Clinton
______________________________________

Haven't read through all the responses yet, but wanted to say
this is a hugely worthwhile sentence to considerOriginally Posted by roast
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-val...l-girl-client/
it was linked in the comments to OP link.
This right here is a problem. You expressed one of the things I hate most about you as a customer. The fact that you desire her to forget about her own survival in need of feeling she enjoys your company. Then "I'll make it up to her". That should have been done before you walked out the door yet that would take away your high.
In cam I have experienced this type all too much. Also in the pre-booked phone types where a cut off option isn't there. They get to the end of their time and starting talking rapidly in a desperate attempt to extend time. One phone customer said to me " I don't pay for conversation only for sex talk". So I said ooh great then you can shut the fuck up now since your time is up. He did this back to back always trying to find a way to push boundaries. When this didn't work he used a tactic of trying to insult industry workers because haha he knew I wouldn't let that slide. This is not only exhausting but it's never worth the money the person is spending. They never "make it up or back" because again they don't want to feel like they are paying for anything. They really think they are helping out when they are costing her.
A fair exchange of fun and money for time is all that is required to make a person in the industry enjoy you as a customer. Once you try to squeeze out more than what you're paying for, you're the very person that creates what you dislike " the rushing hustle type dancer". That dancer has met your type and went home broke or left the club empty handed after all of the fees caught up to your " she forgot about the money" fun.
Again as you state you don't care and specifically seek out one that will not notice until it's too late and she'll despise you for it. I have always despised those types because their selfishness is like someone hanging DEATH over my head and telling me to enjoy impending doom.
I just had this argument with 5 guys today. They were blocked for I see "blinking death" whenever they continue on their selfish need for validation.
Here's a way you can get your fix before hand:
1) Let her forget and then toss the amount of money she lost by sitting with you at the end.
^ This never happens or rarely does. However I've been lucky enough to have someone pop in, watch that selfish guy and then tip me 3-4 times whatever I was originally seeking . This guy that really gets it just became a GOD in my room. Sure other men frown on White Knightismn but it makes me wet!
Under my own member account I do this in other cam model rooms. I see the never ending selfish babbler and then I start a token bombing. It alerts the model of the time waster because we all forget sometimes. Plus it puts pressure back on this guy to either get off some money or he ends up announcing "calling it a night". He goes to another room and starts this all over again from scratch.
What I tend to do to those types is ignore their exit. It's funny because they hang on waiting for "good bye" but I just let them sit there and then poof their user name disappears after a 5-15 min wait. lol Other times they sit in my room and feel smaller as my tone for the " I get you" guy is filled with excitement and gratitude.
Setting aside the impracticalities of the hypothetical system you proposed, I think you are missing the point. Sex work is work. Sometimes you just don't feel like it but you have bills to pay, regardless of who the customer is. It's not about finding fulfilling sexual encounters, it's about making money. The problem does not lie with the lack of enthusiasm of the part of the sex worker, the problem lies with customers making unreasonable and selfish demands.
Right, that's kind of the point. Faux-concern for sex worker's enjoyment, when really your motives are completely selfish. Being overly preoccupied with the idea that they want you in a capacity outside of the business arrangement, needing constant reassurance of this, and making this the focal point of the interaction is selfish. You don't actually care if they are having a nice time- in fact by behaving this way you are more than likely ensuring their experience is less than optimal - you only care that your desires are catered to. Desires that are overly-demanding and unrealistic in the first place.
Does this make you a bad customer? Well, it sure as fuck doesn't make you a good one.
hot flirting tips 2k13: tell him, “I’m not like other girls,” then pull down the secret zipper at the back of your neck to reveal your true reptilian form




^ You're not the type of customer we want anyway, that is the point. Most customers are not like you. As I stated before I gladly refuse money from customers like you and it is 110% worth it. For every type of customer like you there are multiple customers that get it that become regulars. You are the minority not the majority. Thank the lord.




Why are you wasting your time trying to find a sexworker that genuinely likes you? If you want someone that really likes you find a date or a girlfriend.



I've had the sort of cross over relationship you are talking about. I always like to tell clients who want to get to know the real girl, "the curtain is there for your benefit and is part of your fantasy. You probably really don't want to remove look behind it." You have to get that you aren't having sex with the women directly, the woman is playing a role and you are having sex with their character creation. It is like an actress and the character they play.
The relationship you are talking about is in practice more friendly than sexual. It often doesn't start that way, originally the reason you as a client got involved in the whole relationship is because you were magnetically attracted to the fantasy persona. You get to know them, you genuinely begin to like the real them as a friend. At the same time as the layers strip away, they take with it most of those things that made them into your fantasy. The real women underneath is in some ways the same person as the fantasy but with all their personality levers adjusted. They don't have to downplay the parts of their personality or being that you aren't attracted to because it is not their job to attract you anymore. So for example if the women is a huge sports fan, and you could care less, your fantasy girlfriend isn't going to talk sports because it bores you and it is their job to entertain you. Get to know the real women and you will be hearing sports stuff all the time, because that is what the real women is interested in and that's what getting to know her is about.
When you stop paying, it is no longer about you. When a guy says they want to get to know their mind, mostly I think guys are full of crap. What they generally want is to get to know the mind of the fantasy girl wearing the mask. Well the fantasy girl doesn't have a mind, she is a character in a drama you are paying to have put on. The real women playing that fantasy girl does have a mind but she's not the one you are interacting with inside the drama. When you expose your emotions to them as a client, from their perspective, you are doing it so that they can better construct their fantasy girlfriend for you. You aren't really sharing, you are taking. Once you realize that's she putting on a show for your benefit so you have a fun time and give her money, you honestly become a lot safer to have the kind of chit chat you are asking for. When you can't separate the women acting from the fantasy girlfriend in your own head you are making it impossible for you to connect to them as they really are because you can't see who they really are.
I don't want this to sound negative at all, it is hugely positive. Learning this was really great for my marriage. When I compared the fantasy girl to my real wife, I often wondered if I had made terrible mistakes. I was very happy with meeting the real women who do this kind of work and it is wonderful to have had and still sometimes do have the opportunity to work backstage and support them in putting on the show. When I compared the real women to my real wife, while still enjoying spending time in this kind of relationship there was no doubt in my mind that if I had it to do over again (and everybody's age was adjusted to make things appropriate) I would have made the same choices I did.
Hope that helps.
Last edited by knightwish; 06-07-2013 at 10:16 AM. Reason: there->their
Exactly. It's like when kids say, "Let's make believe," and then play out fantasy roles. The client who is trying to get to know the provider behind the role and is seeking personal validation from her is screwing up the game. He's like the kid who is bad at "make believe" games. How sad is that?
Also, he's not just "annoying" and "exhausting" as has been duly noted in this thread, but he may also seem menacing. That guy is more likely to be the stalker and attacker. Since providers in this industry are often targets of violence, when they talk about guys being "creepy" and about operating in "survival" mode they're not speaking metaphorically.
It's also worth considering the obverse. The provider who is overly interested in getting to know the real guy behind the client's persona is also creepy. I don't go into the SC as myself but as a make believe person that I've made up. Nor will I see an escort who needs to know my real identity, my place of work, etc. And I don't want to "get real" in conversation. It's an escape.
Do I hope the provider might enjoy herself, too? Yes. But I can't reasonably demand it, or expect it, or be too concerned about it. Is it a turn on to me to imagine that she is enjoying herself? Yes again. But that's just because the good fantasy is the one you can get a little bit caught up in. But not too much. It's a fine line, which is why this thread is interesting to me.
Thanks for everyone's comments.



LoveHerButton is being annoying in a way lots of men are. I think by accident, two days from now hopefully he gets it in his head. He won't get it in his heart I think until he does get to look behind the curtain but that can't happen until he gets it in his head. There is a huge degree of difference between being an intrusive client and getting violent. Let's not minimize that.
In terms of the ones who are violent. I don't want to thread jack but for my $.02. Yes. I wish sex workers would organize better and get political power. I think vice is shameful in how they handle sex workers. I have to comply with FCC regulators. They meet with other industry players and myself at least once a year to jointly determine what the regulations are going to be. We come to an agreement. And if we have problems we can usually count of FCC enforcement to help out. Vice doesn't meet with their regulated and try and worth through problems together. And worse for public safety, vice conversely doesn't do squat to help sex workers when they have problems. I see no reason for legal business like strippers their relationship with vice shouldn't be similar to mine with the FCC and they should be able to get the kind of protection they need from their regulators. But that's a pipe dream for now.
I get your point. I hate crossing over during play time. I don't mind crossing over before. So for example I have stripper friends and in a social setting obvious we will talk about whatever. I've never gotten and don't want a dance from any outside the club friends. With women whom I know strictly ITC I can context switch, but I can't stand it when girls get too nosy in the clubs when I'm trying to get frisky. For them, I want the attention on your tits and my cock not which preschool you should pick for your son! But mostly they don't do that. My guess is this is a 90/10 problem ITC with guys crossing the line far more than the ladies.
Masseuses never try and engage me that way. Escorts are pretty similar. Though after I've cum if there is still some time on the clock I might lounge around, smoke touch her naked body and chat about semi-real life topics. Though I'd prefer they offer to get my engine going for a second round or do a sensual shower or... With dominatrixes, which is where I have the most social experience, the dungeon creates a terrific dividing line. If I'm playing with a dom who works a vanilla job in fashion we might meet for dinner after her work and talk real life stuff. But once we are in the dungeon I strip and she changes into dom clothes, the only thing I want her talking about is how many lashes I'm getting or how fast she wants me to suck her pee off the floor. I actually do "time out / time in" if I have to do something real life in the dungeon context and I have to break character. I've had doms ever break character when: either they are young and inexperienced and just learning the craft or twice when I was too emotionally / physically shot and need 5-10 minutes to come down a bit from something that was too emotionally intense (i.e. for my benefit).
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