Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 44 of 44

Thread: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

  1. #26
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    It's horrifying that sex workers are considered less than human and the people that victimize them often get less than a slap on the wrist

    For better or worse, where local jury members and local judges are concerned, 'sex workers' are often treated far differently than 'housewives' ! This is an unfortunate but very real issue ... which arguably goes far beyond this one specific case.

  2. #27
    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Nudie-Land
    Posts
    7,219
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4,151 Times in 1,462 Posts
    My Mood
    Sneaky

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    For better or worse, where local jury members and local judges are concerned, 'sex workers' are often treated far differently than 'housewives' ! This is an unfortunate but very real issue ... which arguably goes far beyond this one specific case.
    Is there a "better" aspect... ever?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sophia_Starina For This Useful Post:


  4. #28
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    ^^^ not in Texas that's for damn sure !!!

  5. #29
    God/dess SarahTime's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,681
    Thanks
    8,041
    Thanked 13,685 Times in 2,854 Posts
    My Mood
    Inspired

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    I was infuriated when I read it. I can't see how she stole anything. She was there for 20 of the 30 mins. Legally that's all she had to give, her time.


    The only bright side I can see now, is that this case can give legal precedence for escorts, masseuses, strippers working private parties, etc. to carry a weapon and use it in defense, even when that defense is to protect your money.


    Edit: more details:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbZ6TMOwMjE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLnvjW7fC7g
    "My last intention in this world would be to hurt someone or to shoot someone"

    Riiiiiiighhhhhtttt..... I usually grab my AK 47 when my last intention is to hurt or shoot someone, too.

    I completely agree this guy should have been convicted of murder, but he got "lucky" on an old outdated law. Texans are pretty big on their "property" it goes way back to the beginnings of this state... that's why some of these crazy laws are in place, but unfortunately they sit there never updated.

    At the very least maybe the law will be updated. It usually takes something like this for law makers to wake the fuck up and realize oh, maybe we should fix that.
    xoxo ~ Sarah




  6. The Following User Says Thank You to SarahTime For This Useful Post:


  7. #30
    Senior Member Holly_V's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    175
    Thanks
    212
    Thanked 191 Times in 84 Posts

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    How can something like this happen in a supposedly 'civil' society? Fucking bible belt bullshit.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Holly_V For This Useful Post:


  9. #31
    Veteran Member Joanna_Kaary's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    372
    Thanks
    929
    Thanked 608 Times in 220 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    I have very little faith in, and very little respect for the american judicial system. I think that in many instances, prosecutors suck and drop the ball when it comes to putting away people who clearly deserve to go to jail, likely because they just don't care about the victim of the crime. I think far to many laws (like this bullshit!) Are completely unfair and are a big part of the problem. Even if we accept that its okay to shoot someone in Texas if they take your property after sunset, since when is 30 min (or however long was agreed upon) of sex with a woman a mans property??? That is some shit americans think of as happening in remote areas of the middle east (notice I said 'what americans think of as happening.' I don't know what really happens there because I've never been; I only know what happens here in our so called fair society.) So many murderers, rapists, etc. Are free, while so many innocent people, or people guilty of only minor wrongdoings, are doing real time.

    I really feel legalizing prostitution (for adult women) while strengthening laws against pimping anyone (or "arranging for, forcing, or profiting from the sale of sexual acts carried out by another individual," or however they would have to word it) and purchasing sex from a minor, would go a long way towards solving *some* of the problems associated with sex work, although it wouldn't help in many instances, perhaps including this particular one.

    RIP to the victim of this murder and all the other ones we never even here about.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Joanna_Kaary For This Useful Post:


  11. #32
    Veteran Member Cheo_D's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2010
    Location
    An Island
    Posts
    236
    Thanks
    539
    Thanked 148 Times in 92 Posts

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTime View Post
    I completely agree this guy should have been convicted of murder, but he got "lucky" on an old outdated law. Texans are pretty big on their "property" it goes way back to the beginnings of this state... that's why some of these crazy laws are in place, but unfortunately they sit there never updated.

    At the very least maybe the law will be updated. It usually takes something like this for law makers to wake the fuck up and realize oh, maybe we should fix that.
    Sadly they have not reacted to prior incidents related to it, this one may not move them either due to the bias against the victim. In a different online forum I visit we had a troll show up saying "So? One less thieving whore, big deal". And other people arguing that yes, we should have the right to use deadly force against simple property theft, and to shoot perps who are retreating and no longer a threat "because they can then go on to be a threat to others".

    Like I said elsewhere, credit to the DAs for actually filing the murder charge because that's what makes most sense to most people. Too bad the law itself was against them.

    The Defense lawyer probably was able to distract the jury with the quoted law, and plant in them sufficent doubt as to intent(*) and whether her death was a direct result of the injury or just a bad outcome of her later treatment. One wonders if the charge had been manslaughter instead of murder, though.

    (*Too many people tend to buy into the notion that "yeah, I'll just shoot out the tires" o "yeah, I'll shoot just to wing him" is a viable strategy or at least a credible excuse -- when IRL firing at moving targets you can't argue that unless you're a top Seal Team sniper and even then: You never fire in the direction of people unless you're prepared to cause death. You can be indeed firing at the axles and fragments/shrapnel can still kill occupants and that is a foreseeable consequence of your action)

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cheo_D For This Useful Post:


  13. #33
    Senior Member BellaK's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Location
    in the sky
    Posts
    172
    Thanks
    1,473
    Thanked 493 Times in 129 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Our society in general has a fucked up perception of the sex worker.....which helps with the acquittal of nut jobs like this guy.I hate it!
    "Not one drop of my self-worth depends on your acceptance of me."

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to BellaK For This Useful Post:


  15. #34
    God/dess SarahTime's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,681
    Thanks
    8,041
    Thanked 13,685 Times in 2,854 Posts
    My Mood
    Inspired

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheo_D View Post
    Sadly they have not reacted to prior incidents related to it, this one may not move them either due to the bias against the victim. In a different online forum I visit we had a troll show up saying "So? One less thieving whore, big deal". And other people arguing that yes, we should have the right to use deadly force against simple property theft, and to shoot perps who are retreating and no longer a threat "because they can then go on to be a threat to others".

    Like I said elsewhere, credit to the DAs for actually filing the murder charge because that's what makes most sense to most people. Too bad the law itself was against them.

    The Defense lawyer probably was able to distract the jury with the quoted law, and plant in them sufficent doubt as to intent(*) and whether her death was a direct result of the injury or just a bad outcome of her later treatment. One wonders if the charge had been manslaughter instead of murder, though.

    (*Too many people tend to buy into the notion that "yeah, I'll just shoot out the tires" o "yeah, I'll shoot just to wing him" is a viable strategy or at least a credible excuse -- when IRL firing at moving targets you can't argue that unless you're a top Seal Team sniper and even then: You never fire in the direction of people unless you're prepared to cause death. You can be indeed firing at the axles and fragments/shrapnel can still kill occupants and that is a foreseeable consequence of your action)
    Do you suppose he might have been convicted if the DA had pursued a lesser charge? It seems like often times a murder charge would make sense, and then the DA over prosecutes the case and the person ends up walking on a ridiculous technicality of the law.
    xoxo ~ Sarah




  16. #35
    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Nudie-Land
    Posts
    7,219
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4,151 Times in 1,462 Posts
    My Mood
    Sneaky

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTime View Post
    Do you suppose he might have been convicted if the DA had pursued a lesser charge? It seems like often times a murder charge would make sense, and then the DA over prosecutes the case and the person ends up walking on a ridiculous technicality of the law.
    Possibly. I think the Casey Anthony case went the way it did because the DA/Prosecution went for first degree murder rather than 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sophia_Starina For This Useful Post:


  18. #36
    Featured Member Addison's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    807
    Thanks
    98
    Thanked 1,351 Times in 407 Posts

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Well, YEE-HAW! That's Texas justice for ya!

    Guess I'd better think twice the next time I walk out on one of my VIP rooms!!

    Seriously, I have no words.

  19. #37
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Idk. In all honesty I'm having trouble feeling much sympathy for anyone in this story.

    First, I am truly amazed that he pulled out a gun and started shooting over $150. I have no doubt that he was outraged and felt duped, but to open fire on these people, as they were trying to get away, is absurd. I am simply dumbfounded by this.

    However, IMHO the girl in this story is not exactly a sympathetic figure either. After responding to her ad and having her show up at 4:00 am, the shooter contends that she promised him sex in order to get him to cough up the $150 and then reneged. The jury bought this and, frankly, so do I. One would have to be very naive to believe that he paid a CL girl $150 unless she gave him ample reason to believe that he was going to get laid. And all the while, her pimp/partner-in-crime was outside his house, under the cover of darkness, manning the getaway car.

    Did she deserve to die over this? Of course not, but I am simply so disgusted by the whole bunch of them that I cannot find much sympathy or outrage in my heart over this. None of them should have been in that situation in the first place and if you run con jobs on enough people, you are bound to come across one who reacts like a nutjob. Idk, outside of the guy never picking up that gun of course, maybe the best result would have been the pimp taking the bullet instead of the girl.

    Anyway, just my
    Last edited by rickdugan; 06-11-2013 at 06:46 AM.

  20. #38
    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Nudie-Land
    Posts
    7,219
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4,151 Times in 1,462 Posts
    My Mood
    Sneaky

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    One would have to be very naive to believe that he paid a CL girl $150 unless she gave him ample reason to believe that he was going to get laid. And all the while, her pimp/partner-in-crime was outside his house, under the cover of darkness, manning the getaway car.


    Anyway, just my
    Getaway car? Wow. No.

    Having someone looking out for an escort isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've never performed at a party without someone acting as security. Keep in mind I have no clue who the driver is in relation to the dancer. But even then, that doesn't make this some sort of conspiracy, punishable by deadly force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Sophia_Starina For This Useful Post:


  22. #39
    God/dess simone87's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    5,171
    Thanks
    7,361
    Thanked 9,469 Times in 3,228 Posts
    My Mood
    Cheeky

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Idk. In all honesty I'm having trouble feeling much sympathy for anyone in this story.

    First, I am truly amazed that he pulled out a gun and started shooting over $150. I have no doubt that he was outraged and felt duped, but to open fire on these people, as they were trying to get away, is absurd. I am simply dumbfounded by this.

    However, IMHO the girl in this story is not exactly a sympathetic figure either. After responding to her ad and having her show up at 4:00 am, the shooter contends that she promised him sex in order to get him to cough up the $150 and then reneged. The jury bought this and, frankly, so do I. One would have to be very naive to believe that he paid a CL girl $150 unless she gave him ample reason to believe that he was going to get laid. And all the while, her pimp/partner-in-crime was outside his house, under the cover of darkness, manning the getaway car.

    Did she deserve to die over this? Of course not, but I am simply so disgusted by the whole bunch of them that I cannot find much sympathy or outrage in my heart over this. None of them should have been in that situation in the first place and if you run con jobs on enough people, you are bound to come across one who reacts like a nutjob. Idk, outside of the guy never picking up that gun of course, maybe the best result would have been the pimp taking the bullet instead of the girl.

    Anyway, just my
    none of us know what happened. if somebody is psycho enough to kill a woman over 150, well they may be psycho enough to lie about the entire story. not a far stretch for a scumbag like that. we will never know that woman's story, she was shot and suffered a long, slow death over 150 dollars and her murderer was found innocent! how could she possibly deserve that? there is no way to justify this

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to simone87 For This Useful Post:


  24. #40
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,570
    Thanks
    4,406
    Thanked 7,481 Times in 2,715 Posts
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Getaway car? Wow. No.

    Having someone looking out for an escort isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've never performed at a party without someone acting as security. Keep in mind I have no clue who the driver is in relation to the dancer. But even then, that doesn't make this some sort of conspiracy, punishable by deadly force.
    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    none of us know what happened. if somebody is psycho enough to kill a woman over 150, well they may be psycho enough to lie about the entire story. not a far stretch for a scumbag like that. we will never know that woman's story, she was shot and suffered a long, slow death over 150 dollars and her murderer was found innocent! how could she possibly deserve that? there is no way to justify this
    The driver was her "manager" (read: pimp) and she sure as hell knew what this guy wanted when she went out there and took his money. Why else does anyone call a CL escort in the wee hours? The argument that he was paying her for her "time and companionship" is sophistry. Now I agree that nobody here knows what really happened in that house, but I doubt that anyone buys that he was paying for her sparkling personality or that she didn't at least mislead him, if not outright lie to him. And the whole notion that he cannot object because what he is trying to buy is illegal is exactly what the grab and dash crowd rely upon to keep their targets in line once they realize that they've been duped. This time, she and her pimp picked the wrong guy to con and the consequences were fatal.

    Now again, to be clear, we all agree that she did not deserve to die over something like this. This is a horrible tragedy and this psycho should never have started shooting. But let's also be clear-eyed about what was happening here. If she was providing legitimate p4p services, or doing anything else that night for that matter, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion now. Instead, she was out, in the dead of night with her pimp/accomplice waiting out front, running a bait and switch scam on a strange man in his own home.

    As I said before, right or wrong, I am disgusted by the whole bunch of these people and cannot dig up a lot of sympathy for any of them.

    Anyway, with that said this will be my last post on this topic.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 06-12-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to rickdugan For This Useful Post:


  26. #41
    Veteran Member Joanna_Kaary's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    372
    Thanks
    929
    Thanked 608 Times in 220 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    I don't think you can ever judge the victim. You really don't know their story.

    In all likelihood the guy in the car was probably her pimp. So? If anything that should make people feel *more* sorry for her. Yes she is grown (I didn't see any mention of her exact age in any of the articles but I'm assuming she was legally an adult or it would have been mentioned) but that doesn't change the fact that she was a victim of psychological and probably also physically violent manipulation.

    Maybe she was only getting that money because if she didn't, he was going to beat the shit out of her.

    Maybe she only brought the money down to the car first because she had had a problem in the past of a customer trying not to pay afterwards, so her pimp told her start bringing it down beforehand.

    Or maybe she WAS just trying to rob him. You never know WHY she was after that money though. Maybe to feed her baby. Maybe to feed a drug habit. No one knows, and even though the best possible reason still doesn't make it right, I think we can probably all think of times where we did something less than moral to come up on some money. Think corporate people laying workers off to increase profits, think somebody in an office job stepping on a coworker's toes to make sure THEY were the one that got that promotion. Or really anything. For a dancer, maybe you stepped on some other girls toes just a little bit, maybe you stacked dances knowing the guy was a tad too drunk or old and confused, basically hustling him out of money he probably should not have been spending. The list is potentially endless. My point is, nobody has a record of perfect saintliness when it comes to the pursuit of money.

    But I think the 'mainstream' reaction to this story is likely similar to rick's. All three people involved were 'dirty,' so far removed from what society deems appropriate behavior that they are completely outside of the law, both underneath it's ability to help and above its ability to punish. I really see that mentality as detrimental to our country as a whole. Either justice works for everyone, or there's no such thing as justice at all, and it therefor works for no one.

  27. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Joanna_Kaary For This Useful Post:


  28. #42
    Veteran Member Kalypso's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    232
    Thanks
    863
    Thanked 384 Times in 136 Posts

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Now let's see what happens when escorts start shooting clients who try to take back the money.
    Bitch? Actually I'm an evil cunt. Slut? Try dirty little whore. Either way, you have to pay for it.

  29. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Kalypso For This Useful Post:


  30. #43
    Veteran Member Joanna_Kaary's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    372
    Thanks
    929
    Thanked 608 Times in 220 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    An escort (well more of a street walker rly if u wanna be technical) did shoot a client who raped her... and then unfortunately 'snapped' after that first murder and killed a bunch of other would-be clients. What happened is the state of Florida executed her despite the fact that she had a bunch of mental problems (which were made worse by a childhood full of sexual abuse and homeless, not that that's an excuse, but perhaps a contributing factor.) Aileen Wuornos.

  31. #44
    God/dess lestat1's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NY Capital District
    Posts
    3,775
    Thanks
    758
    Thanked 1,943 Times in 696 Posts
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Texas jury acquits man after killing a craigslist escort

    Just in case anyone is ever on a jury, please read this and know your right to jury nullification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

    TL ; DR; If you as a jury member feel that a law is wrong, or unjust, or you simply feel no sympathy for the prosecution or defendant as a law is being applied, you have the right to ignore the law. The two biggest examples of this in US history are the Fugitive Slave Act ("You want me to send a northerner to jail for helping a slave escape to freedom - no way bro") and Prohibition ("You want me to send my neighborhood bathtub gin-maker to jail for giving us our sweet illicit booze - na uh").




    Being on a jury is not like it is portrayed in Hollywood. A judge will explain a law as it applies to the case, and provide instructions to a jury. Juries find facts, that is what juries do. What happened, how to interpret the evidence, who to believe. They decide on the facts of the case. Based on their determination of the facts, a judge decides the ruling and based on the law, selects from a pre-determined set of penalties. With the exception of jury nullification, both judge and jurors hands are tied far more than Hollywood leads us to believe.

    The jury may (probably) not have known about jury nullification, as it's usually a "no no" for an attorney to bring up in court. This law that allows for lethal force after sundown to protect property is an archaic law that needs to go away, but unless the jury knows about jury nullification, the jury may not have known that they have the option to ignore that law.

    Know your rights!
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lestat1 For This Useful Post:


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-08-2013, 04:53 AM
  2. Replies: 50
    Last Post: 12-06-2011, 10:27 PM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-05-2010, 05:45 PM
  4. Jury Duty
    By MoetATL07 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-30-2008, 02:06 PM
  5. Jury Duty...
    By Deni in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 10-12-2006, 08:41 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •