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    Default 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    from


    (snip)Twenty-five years after accusing an innocent man of rape, Tawana Brawley is finally paying for her lies.

    Last week, 10 checks totaling $3,764.61 were delivered to ex-prosecutor Steven Pagones — the first payments Brawley has made since a court determined in 1998 that she defamed him with her vicious hoax.

    A Virginia court this year ordered the money garnisheed from six months of Brawley’s wages as a nurse there.

    She still owes Pagones $431,000 in damages. And she remains defiantly unapologetic.

    “It’s a long time coming,” said Pagones, 52, who to this day is more interested in extracting a confession from Brawley than cash.(snip)

    (snip)She’s now forced to pay Pagones $627 each month, possibly for the rest of her life. Under Virginia law, she can appeal the wage garnishment every six months.

    “Finally, she’s paying something,” said Pagones’ attorney, Gary Bolnick. “Symbolically, I think it’s very important — you can’t just do this stuff without consequences.”

    Pagones filed for the garnishment with the circuit court in Surry County, Va., in January, a few weeks after The Post tracked down Brawley to tiny Hopewell, Va."(snip)

    (snip)For Pagones, the damage was done. His marriage unraveled, and he ended up leaving his job as a prosecutor. He continued to proclaim his innocence, making it his life’s mission to bring Brawley and her advisers to justice — and compel them to tell the truth.

    In 1998, he won his defamation lawsuit. Maddox was found liable for $97,000, Mason for $188,000, and Sharpton for $66,000 — money that was paid by celebrity lawyer Johnnie Cochran and other benefactors.(snip)


    Arguably, this development is a continuation of legal rulings made during and after the Duke Lacrosse case. The courts are arguably acknowledging the fact that charges of rape being leveled against an alleged rapist causes irreparable damage to the accused. If the accused is NOT convicted of said rape, the accuser potentially becomes financially liable for the accused's damaged career, lost income etc.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    She deserves it! It happens a lot in the military and it really grinds my gears. Girls/women seem to think that if they get drunk and can't remember it is rape when really they were drunk and fucked a guy.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Rightly so a fraudulent rape victim should pay compensation. If someone is put on trial and being accused of being a rapist, this can destroy his career, his relationships, his reputation, his life. All when he did nothing wrong.

    The most difficult thing about rape though: it is one word against another, which is likely why so many actual rapists get let off the hook. It's so hard to prove. But it goes the other way too, as likely so many innocent men get charged with rape, especially when the law seems to favor women far more than men.




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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    ^^^ unfortunately, where 'strippers' are concerned, this change in court 'attitude' now has a very negative potential side-effect. Thanks to the Duke Lacrosse case, the Dominic Strauss-Kahn case, and the above case, it's now very possible that rape defendants can successfully paint a picture in court that the alleged rape was in fact an attempt at 'gold-digging' on the part of the 'stripper'. Not only does this increase the probability that any rape charge brought by a 'stripper' will not be prosecuted or if prosecuted will not result in a conviction, but it also arguably exposes the 'stripper' to potential financial liability for damage done to the reputation / earnings potential of the person she accused !!!

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    It's because of cunts like that that legitimate rape victims are hesitant to come forward.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Why is 'fraudulent' in quotes? The accusations were fraudulent.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    ^^^ because, technically, she was never charged with or convicted of the crime of fraud. The subsequent lawsuits have all been for civil damages only.

    However, the new potential for large civil damage awards is undoubtedly now affecting the decision making of local DA's ... and the jurisdictions which employ local DA's ... regarding the de-facto amount of 'hard evidence' that will be required in the future to convince a DA that he should risk his own personal financial situation, as well as that of the jurisdiction ( city, county etc. ), by proceeding with a prosecution but failing to obtain a conviction. My personal worry where SW members are concerned is that the fact that the accuser is a 'stripper', thus raising the distinct possibility of a rape defense based on allegations of 'gold-digging' and/or 'pay for play' being believed by a jury, is going to 'raise the bar' regarding hard evidence of rape to the point where no 'he said - she said' rape accusations by a 'stripper' will actually make it to court in the future !!!

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ because, technically, she was never charged with or convicted of the crime of fraud. The subsequent lawsuits have all been for civil damages only.

    However, the new potential for large civil damage awards is undoubtedly now affecting the decision making of local DA's ... and the jurisdictions which employ local DA's ... regarding the de-facto amount of 'hard evidence' that will be required in the future to convince a DA that he should risk his own personal financial situation, as well as that of the jurisdiction ( city, county etc. ), by proceeding with a prosecution but failing to obtain a conviction. My personal worry where SW members are concerned is that the fact that the accuser is a 'stripper', thus raising the distinct possibility of a rape defense based on allegations of 'gold-digging' and/or 'pay for play' being believed by a jury, is going to 'raise the bar' regarding hard evidence of rape to the point where no 'he said - she said' rape accusations by a 'stripper' will actually make it to court in the future !!!

    Wait... you think this is a bad thing somehow? that woman should've spent as much time in jail as the guy would have if he was convicted. That she has to make minor payments every month is about as "least you can do" as it gets.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by strippername View Post
    She deserves it! It happens a lot in the military and it really grinds my gears. Girls/women seem to think that if they get drunk and can't remember it is rape when really they were drunk and fucked a guy.
    I'm pretty sure if you're too drunk to remember what happened then you're too drunk to give consent. It's a slippery slope. If both parties are equally drunk then it's just a drunken hookup. But if the guy is more sober than the girl, then yeah, he's definitely taking advantage of her.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    I'd like to see this happen to anyone who has wrongly accused anyone. For example there are people who served time for crimes they never committed, like child molestation. I'd like to see their accusers pay them. A childhood friend had a brother who served time for a rape he never committed. Years later the "victim" recanted after finding religion and he got released after DNA exonerated him. At the time this story (which made national news)was a warning to those who wrongly accused someone about how their life would be messed up. Her brother had a lot of issues after being released.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette View Post
    I'm pretty sure if you're too drunk to remember what happened then you're too drunk to give consent. It's a slippery slope. If both parties are equally drunk then it's just a drunken hookup. But if the guy is more sober than the girl, then yeah, he's definitely taking advantage of her.
    The problem with this logic is that there's no way to evaluate (a) how drunk each party was and (b) which party was more drunk. And what about the opposite situation, if the guy was "more drunk" than the girl? Men can generally hold more liquor than women, but does their higher BAC them more drunk? I'm not asking you specifically, it's just a very tricky framework to apply. Of course, it really does often come down to 'he said she said,' and that's obviously not an ideal system either.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    not enough raped women are coming forward as it is..with this, even less will. great for rapists!! seriously, this makes me sick. if you lose in court, its fraudulent? and since when has the judicial system not been corrupt and ridiculous? if they are going to do that , then every jury member/judge who sentences an innocent person should have to serve the same sentence or pay the same fine. bet that wont happen!but women who have been raped should have to do that if it doesn't hold up in court.
    happened to my friend ten years ago, her boss raped her and was found innocent..bastard went around telling newspapers he's sooo glad this horrible ordeal is over and his name is cleared!
    all this will do is make even less women/some men press charges agains their attackers, or else face even further trauma, be called liars, and have to pay their attacker for the rest of their lives. so angry. i don't think the law favors women more than men at all, its all about how has more power or money. lets not forget law makers are not mostly made up of females.
    Last edited by simone87; 08-05-2013 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    from http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...pApS46BonCokvI

    The courts are arguably acknowledging the fact that charges of rape being leveled against an alleged rapist causes irreparable damage to the accused. If the accused is NOT convicted of said rape, the accuser potentially becomes financially liable for the accused's damaged career, lost income etc.
    The bigger issue with this is what if a rape did occur, but there just isn't enough proof to convict? The way I'm understanding this, a real victim can become victimized once again monetarily.

    I do agree false accusations are horrible, but for a real victim this can be very bad.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora14 View Post
    The bigger issue with this is what if a rape did occur, but there just isn't enough proof to convict? The way I'm understanding this, a real victim can become victimized once again monetarily.

    I do agree false accusations are horrible, but for a real victim this can be very bad.
    The difference is, in this case, as I understand it, it was proven that the rape story was a hoax. She lied, therefore, he's entitled to sue for damages. But if there simply isn't enough evidence to determine either way if it happened or not, there are no grounds to sue.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Ya, I knew that in this case it was determined a lie. Women like that a a horrible waste of breath making it impossible for real victims to be believed. That's why I hope ALL accused rapists can't do this. I hope there is a something the men have to do to prove the accusation is in fact false and not be able to collect just because they weren't convicted.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    this thread makes me really sad.
    [/center]

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurisa View Post
    Money can't buy happiness, but poverty can't buy shit.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by shanna dior View Post
    The problem with this logic is that there's no way to evaluate (a) how drunk each party was and (b) which party was more drunk. And what about the opposite situation, if the guy was "more drunk" than the girl? Men can generally hold more liquor than women, but does their higher BAC them more drunk? I'm not asking you specifically, it's just a very tricky framework to apply. Of course, it really does often come down to 'he said she said,' and that's obviously not an ideal system either.
    That's true. Those types of situations can be very tricky indeed. Though I think generally, a lot more rapes actually happen then do cases of women intentionally lying about it for whatever reason. Why the hell would someone want to go to the police, get caught up in a stressful legal battle and have to lie under oath, etc. etc. all because they regretted sleeping with a guy? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I actually know of someone IRL who was accused of rape and acquitted because there was no evidence. The girl changed her story repeatedly and lied to the police. I have no clue what would motivate someone to do that, but I guess some people are just kind of psycho. Overall though, I think fake rape claims are quite rare, whereas actual rape is not only very rampant, but under-reported as well.

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    not enough raped women are coming forward as it is..with this, even less will. great for rapists!! seriously, this makes me sick. if you lose in court, its fraudulent? and since when has the judicial system not been corrupt and ridiculous? if they are going to do that , then every jury member/judge who sentences an innocent person should have to serve the same sentence or pay the same fine. bet that wont happen!but women who have been raped should have to do that if it doesn't hold up in court.
    happened to my friend ten years ago, her boss raped her and was found innocent..bastard went around telling newspapers he's sooo glad this horrible ordeal is over and his name is cleared!
    all this will do is make even less women/some men press charges agains their attackers, or else face even further trauma, be called liars, and have to pay their attacker for the rest of their lives. so angry. i don't think the law favors women more than men at all, its all about how has more power or money. lets not forget law makers are not mostly made up of females.

    So false accusers should not be punished at all just because it might stop real victims from coming forward? that's ridiculous, that man who was falsely accused is just as much a victim who deserves justice as your friend who was raped.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Also, am I missing something here? What does this article have to do with Al Sharpton or race?

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    He was very involved with the case because the woman was black and the guy white.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    So false accusers should not be punished at all just because it might stop real victims from coming forward? that's ridiculous, that man who was falsely accused is just as much a victim who deserves justice as your friend who was raped.
    if it is proved without a doubt, yes, in this one isolated case if it was certain she was lying then he can sue for damages ( although it isn't going to get his life back the way it was) he has every right to. but i disagree with this becoming a "thing" simply because it was dismissed in court. im not talking about this one case, with this one guy

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    We are talking about this one case with this one guy though.
    "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: 'A horrible person.' We weren't even testing for that."

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    We are talking about this one case with this one guy though.
    i was responding to some of melonies comments

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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    If I recall, early on Sharpton knew it was a false accusation but admitted he didn't care and pressed on. He as an adult 'professional' deserves more blame than the 16 (?) year old 'victim'...
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    Default Re: 'Fraudulent' Rape Victim ordered to pay compensation ...

    Theme 1: Yes, rape IS underreported and these sorts of incidents, even more so the Duke lacrosse team incident, does a lot of harm to the need for effective prevention and prosecution of sexual assault, by damaging the credibility of those coming forward with a complaint. The notion that "all the girl has to do is cry rape and you're toast" is not by far the default or easy to pull in the absence of actual evidence. Still, it behooves to remember that under the law, if she's so drunk she goes into blackout and can't remember, yes she was too disabled to consent and yes I am responsible for noticing and doing the right thing. (And BTW, regarding an earlier comment: actually the reports coming out from the top military brass these days are that in fact there is still too much covering up of sexual assault in the ranks. Heck, a head of USAF's sexual assault office got canned for, guess what, sexual assault.)

    In the Duke case there was the complication of an unethical vote-hunting prosecutor and the "Duke Group of 88" faculty members who even after the whole thing fell apart flat out refused to back down from their position and openly declared themselves indifferent of actual guilt. (BTW more on this last bit after Theme 2)



    Theme 2: To answer a question asked: Sharpton (back when he was fat and affected tall pompadours and pimpish [for a preacher] suits) took on the mantle of "championing" Brawley's cause and casting the whole thing as an example of how the system could not possibly do justice to a black "victim" - "no justice, no peace" demonstrations and all the concommitant rigmarole ensued. Got pretty nasty. When it came up that it was a hoax, he did a beautiful "let's pretend I was never there" slinkaway.

    The affected persons were not even given an official, formal public vindication like the Duke lacrosse team. Brawley pops up in the news today because apparently she finally is making enough of a living so that there can be garnishment to pay her part of the damages.


    Comment: In both the above cited cases (Brawley, Duke), the high degree of media visibility of the case and aftermath was due to how various parties, from complete outsiders to a prosecutor who had to pay for it with his license (Nifong, NC) early on inserted their own political/racial agendas, to the point of effectively disregarding BOTH the alleged victims and alleged perps as individuals with lives, turning them instead into mere icons for whatever sociopolitical wrong needed righting. It became not a case of a woman being allegedly raped, but of "Come, look at how justice is impossible in this system!!".

    The Duke case is specially relevant in this board because at the beginning of the investigation, before things went off the rails, there WAS a lot of public opinion concern that the case would not be followed up, would be swept under the table because she was a stripper, and the cries of "no justice..." were starting, but instead of assuaging that with a good, thorough investigation that was respectful of the accuser's dignity, Nifong and the Group of 88, apparently not being quite comfortable with the notion of championing a stripper, decided instead on a strategy that by all signs (and even in some cases by outright admission) was to go after the players for being privileged jocks who needed a lesson, rather than for being alleged rapists of an alleged victim that needed redress.

    Though shown to have been willing participants in a hoax or a false accusation, the women in both cases were reduced to little more than a prop for others, even by those who ostensibly believed they had REALLY been assaulted.

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