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Thread: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

  1. #26
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    I actually thought of starting a completely different thread on this earlier, but since it was brought up briefly here, I'd thought I'd just post it here.

    I’ve been thinking a lot lately about this argument that “if boys weren’t wired to just look at women sexually, the adult entertainment industry would cease to exist.” Or that I should just accept that “boys will be boys” when it comes to sexuality otherwise I’d be out of a job.

    I just don’t think that’s true. I’ve been a stripper, a brief camgirl, and now an escort. And I think it’s totally do-able to partake in the adult industry and still treat women out in day-to-day life well, or to even treat a woman who you know is a part of the adult industry as still a viable friend/love interest and human being. There are plenty of people who know I stripped and cammed, and some who now know I escort.

    Those people, shockingly enough, are still able to be my friends and talk to me like an adult human being, and not try to jump me 15 minutes after walking in the door. If an escort client starts groping me immediately and expects sex, well, that’s what they’re paying for. That’s my job. That doesn’t mean that I expect, or should expect, the same behavior from guy friends outside of my job and outside of getting paid. And I honestly don’t believe that when my clients interact with non-escort women out in the world, that they treat them the same way.

    In a strip club, on a camsite, with an escort – men are specifically paying for the privilege of being able to just give into the hormones (within reason). They are paying for the fact that they can bypass the niceties with a complete and utter stranger and just enjoy the physical with a beautiful woman. But when they aren’t paying, I’m fairly certain that they (at least most of them) don’t just treat every other woman they come across with the same expectations.

    Likewise, I can hang with men who know what I do for a living, who know damn well I’m very sexual, but they also know damn well that they are not clients and they cannot get away with accelerated and superficial closeness like that when they are not paying for that experience.

    I’m not denying that men like to think sexually about women, and sometimes that’s all they want to do. That’s why the adult entertainment industry exists. And would continue to exist even if men, in their personal lives, thought much more progressively about women and didn’t have madonna/whore complexes of "you can either be sexual or respectable, but not both at the same time." No, that wouldn’t take away from their desire to just have that shit be easy sometimes. I don’t view customers/clients as desperate losers who can’t go out and get a woman the “proper way” – just that they sometimes want to have fun without the complications and all the stuff they would normally have to go through. That’s fine. That’s why we get paid what we do. But I don’t think for a second that once a man steps outside of that “work zone” with a sex worker that he shouldn’t go back to being able to differentiate between paying someone to be that way for them, and knowing that women are still sexual and more complex than that and should be treated as such when they are not paying for a specific experience of just sexuality.
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  3. #27
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    So the consensus here so far seem to be that teenage girls should be able to post pics of their scantily clad bodies, expressing their "sexuality", to teenage boys without those boys thinking of them in a sexual way.

    Alrighty then.

    This woman is simply being a responsible parent IMHO. She is trying to raise boys who act honorably and don't view girls as pieces of meat. She didn't strike me as some whack job or a religious nut. She is simply doing the best she can to make sure that her boys look at things from the right perspective.

    As parents, we have to work with the world as we find it, not how we wish it to be. In an ideal world, boys would think about girls who post pics of themselves in towels and lingerie on FB the same as any other girl, but they don't. Boys are simply not wired that way. When they see a semi-nude girl, their hormones kick in and they think about sex. This is why it is important to establish some type of emotional connection with a man before you give him the goods, at least if you are interested in him as a long term prospect. If the sex comes first then it dominates his thinking about you. Girls throughout the ages have understood this, which is one of the reasons why the smart girls, to this day, don't give it up too quickly.

    Wish and complain all you want, but I don't see this changing anytime soon, particularly as part of this is hormonal. Heck, if this were not the case, then the whole adult entertainment industry probably wouldn't exist.

    As Marlow Stanfield said to the convenience store security guard in an episode of the Wire: "You want it to be one way, but it's the other way."

    And this is exactly why my young teenage daughters will not be prancing around in towels and lingerie on camera for young boys. I understand all too well how boys think and this type of behavior will generate the wrong type of attention from them. I want their beauty, kindness and intelligence to be what these boys first associate with my daughters rather than the hard-ons that they got from seeing my daughters barely clothed on a FB pic. I truly wish I didn't have to worry about things like that, but as a parent I have to live in the real world and act accordingly.

    Any, just my fwiw.
    I don't have an issue with how she blocked the girl in question but to sit back and write a blog like " I blocked you because you may have turned on my poor son?" Pfft If the girl in question doesn't have access to such information how exactly does that serve to benefit her? She basically publically humiliated a young girl. Something that is "facebook culture" of youth not a grown adult.

    So now this girl is going to school feeling ashamed. First it seemed like "pjs" now it's maybe a towel? Come on I think she tried to blow this situation out of proportion to get viewers on her blog. If you notice most of the "high 5s" are coming from parent but also of the religious variety. The other issue she said was that even if this girl in question has an entire personality , has been friends with her son for some time so that he has viewed her in more than one way, she's now reduced to nothing but an object all off of one pj photo.

    What exactly does this say about her life and her sex life? Is she the type to have sex through a blanket with a hole in it because she's so afriad her own husband will reduce her to just body parts? This is the point she made a grave error in making such a claim. If the boy sees the girl as just moving parts then he's always seen her that way. Nothing really is going to change his view but time.

    Ohh and she made mention of a bra. I suppose the girls nipples were poking through but apparently she was unaware.Still I don't know too many women that go to sleep with bras on. Typically mothers usually bring that up to their own daughters that nipples poking through a top could bring undesireable attention.That's a top not a set of pjs. Again if she was really looking to help she could have brought this to the attention of the girl's parents. Instead let me make this a public shame post for all to see but the intended party and pretend it's a letter to them. lol

    I'm pretty sure the girl knows now but has felt like trash because of it. So lets just say that if the girl didn't feel like a slut she's now made everyone see her as one. Way to go mom! YES YOU ARE LAME!

    There's always a way to do things she didn't take the right "path" on this one. I have a feeling the next several years she'll be the " ohh no not my son" type.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I have to say that I find her position to be perfectly reasonable and her motives, which are to train her boys to respect women and look at them as something other than sexual objects, to be admirable.
    I understand where you are coming from, Rick. And don't feel like your interrupting - I figured some people would agree with her.

    I just don't think she's teaching her sons to respect women and look at them as something "other than sexual objects" - I think that's what the religious "nut" guy was trying to do. I think Momma Facebook is basically teaching them that there's only a certain type of woman that is worthy of their respect, and the rest should be scandalized at the dinner table with the whole family and then publicly shamed online.
    “The irony of commitment is that it's deeply liberating -- in work, in play, in love. The act frees you from the tyranny of your internal critic, from the fear that likes to dress itself up and parade around like rational hesitation. To commit is to remove your head as the barrier to your life.”
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    @Rick, I'm not saying they don't get to look at them and go "Wow that's hot!" The issue is that she needs to teach these boys to be able to go "Wow that's hot!" but also still think of the girl as a human being and know she may have other things to offer, and that they need to treat her with respect... not start catcalling and telling their friends what a slut she looks like.

    But no, most men are relatively stupid and it either has to be the stereotypical hot girl with no brains, or the smart, kind girl who isn't sexy. Bullshit.

    And also, I don't believe men are completely wired to only see a girl as a sexual object if she "gives it up" too quickly. I know, I know, you're a man, you know how you guys work, but that's not always true. There are people who are sexually free (so are happy to do it quickly) and have mastered the ability to see the whole package and won't be put off by how "easy" the girl is.

    Personally, if I find someone attractive and want to sleep with them, I will do it, and if they lose interest in the personality factor afterwards, their ass will be promptly booted to the curb with a copy of that Nate Pyle letter above.
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    So the consensus here so far seem to be that teenage girls should be able to post pics of their scantily clad bodies, expressing their "sexuality", to teenage boys without those boys thinking of them in a sexual way.

    Alrighty then.

    This woman is simply being a responsible parent IMHO. She is trying to raise boys who act honorably and don't view girls as pieces of meat. She didn't strike me as some whack job or a religious nut. She is simply doing the best she can to make sure that her boys look at things from the right perspective.

    As parents, we have to work with the world as we find it, not how we wish it to be. In an ideal world, boys would think about girls who post pics of themselves in towels and lingerie on FB the same as any other girl, but they don't. Boys are simply not wired that way. When they see a semi-nude girl, their hormones kick in and they think about sex. This is why it is important to establish some type of emotional connection with a man before you give him the goods, at least if you are interested in him as a long term prospect. If the sex comes first then it dominates his thinking about you. Girls throughout the ages have understood this, which is one of the reasons why the smart girls, to this day, don't give it up too quickly.

    Wish and complain all you want, but I don't see this changing anytime soon, particularly as part of this is hormonal. Heck, if this were not the case, then the whole adult entertainment industry probably wouldn't exist.

    As Marlow Stanfield said to the convenience store security guard in an episode of the Wire: "You want it to be one way, but it's the other way."

    And this is exactly why my young teenage daughters will not be prancing around in towels and lingerie on camera for young boys. I understand all too well how boys think and this type of behavior will generate the wrong type of attention from them. I want their beauty, kindness and intelligence to be what these boys first associate with my daughters rather than the hard-ons that they got from seeing my daughters barely clothed on a FB pic. I truly wish I didn't have to worry about things like that, but as a parent I have to live in the real world and act accordingly.

    Any, just my fwiw.
    Rick, I don't disagree with you really (and as you know, I am one of the more conservative here)but my problem with this is the mother is lecturing her son's Facebook friends when it's really not her business to do so. I don't think these girls should be posting these photos but she seems awfully judgmental.

    Btw I do think you posted something that I think is so important for all the women here to see and it's the idea of waiting to have sex. I get so upset when I see things like "he never called me again after we had sex". The fact is men who truly like a woman for herself will wait for sex. When a woman has sex too early many men think of her just as a sex plaything. It is wrong for that to happen but it does. It has happened to me several times where I slept with a guy too early and he then never thought of me as anything but for sex.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    @ rick..she's not teaching her sons anything, except that respect should only be afforded to women who dress the way SHE wants! an she doesn't want her precious little princes being corrupted by the though of something as natural as..sex! omg, wouldn't that be horrible. she should teach her sons to respect women regardless of how they are dressed, and she has NO right to try and shame OTHER PEOPLE'S DAUGHTERS!!!
    my first boyfrends mom was like this. i dressed in baggy clothes as a teen and at 14 i hadn't even been kissed yet. i was disgustingly innocent. but one day i wore a tank top that showed i had boobs and she flipped out and made us break up because she didn't want her golden child thinking about sex. she didn't talk to him about it, she simply put all the blame on me when there will be girls who are almost naked walking around so best teach your boy to respect women regardless.
    and men will harass you even when you aren't dressed provocatively. i got harassed all week wearing sweatpants.
    im seriously scratching my head that ..you would be scratching your head at our responses. but then again, you are a man and im guessing you've never been slut shamed. understandable.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Selina M View Post
    Just because a girl is "overplaying" her sexuality does not mean she is easy. That is the sort of stupid shit this woman is pushing... "If you show it off you're desperate and unworthy!"

    I prefer the Mel Brooks lyrics of "If you got it, flaunt it".

    And we women are well aware of your "complications"... Men want what they can't have and especially women who don't want them. Yeah yeah, soooo complicated to be run by your ego. It's pretty common knowledge that most girls do use to their advantage.
    Nah, that isn't what is about at all lol.

    First of all not trying to be offensive just honest. This has nothing to do with SC or related.

    Just generic situation where a guy meets cute girl in a social context sort of thing. Cute girl things are going really well and we are clicking and having fun, the chances that I will actually remember her name or want to see her again go up dramatically. I am not a 21 y/o jarhead anymore, call me jaded but it takes more than a pretty face and a nice butt to hold my interest. All I'm saying in my post from earlier.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by invibe View Post
    Nah, that isn't what is about at all lol.

    First of all not trying to be offensive just honest. This has nothing to do with SC or related.

    Just generic situation where a guy meets cute girl in a social context sort of thing. Cute girl things are going really well and we are clicking and having fun, the chances that I will actually remember her name or want to see her again go up dramatically. I am not a 21 y/o jarhead anymore, call me jaded but it takes more than a pretty face and a nice butt to hold my interest. All I'm saying in my post from earlier.
    I forget how old you are, but have heard this from many older men that for them looks aren't as important. Here's the problem though and in society women are told that looks are the only thing that matter. It's gets worse of course if a woman is in a business where looks determine money, like modeling and the adult industry.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    I agree that the world is a double-standard-ridden, hypocritical place that should hold boys up to a higher standard and stop slut shaming women.

    At the same time, however, the reality is that the world is full of stupid, narrow-minded, bigoted, ignorant people who only believe what they are told.

    If you don't want the people to think of you in a sexual way, then the logical conclusion is: don't present yourself in a sexual way. If you do, then you are seeking out that attention in some way. And, while wanting to be noticed for your looks is a part of natural human sexuality and should not be shamed, the sad reality is that it IS shamed.

    In my real life, I don't wanna get hit on by random creeps, so I look as low-key, T shirt and jeans as possible with no makeup.

    On cam, I am a sex worker, and so I behave/dress in a sexual manner.

    My opinion is, if a man can't see beyond your body, all the better. If someone can't see how intelligent you are, that just makes it easier for you to manipulate them. If they have a narrow, 1-track mind, then that just makes them easier to control. If they can't fully appreciate who you are in all your facets, then they were never good enough to really know you anyway. & the sooner they prove themselves to be morons, the less time you have to waste before ignoring them.

    If I were that mom I wouldnt be putting all the blame and responsibility on the females. However, I also feel like girls who claim to not want to be objectified could easily avoid such by simply not presenting themselves in a sexual manner.
    Last edited by Jade62013; 09-10-2013 at 04:15 PM.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I forget how old you are, but have heard this from many older men that for them looks aren't as important. Here's the problem though and in society women are told that looks are the only thing that matter. It's gets worse of course if a woman is in a business where looks determine money, like modeling and the adult industry.
    38. Yeah understand and not talking about models and adult industry, I know that the job is looking good so it is a given. Maybe some of what is going on is girls projecting beauty image onto other girls though, talking "civilians". To be honest a cute woman is sexy if she is wearning a little black dress, a barely there thong or a pair of old jeans and a sweater. That or I am a horn dog, pick your theory rofl. Seriously though, there is just more to sex appeal than I think people realize but just my opinion.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade62013 View Post
    If I were that mom I wouldnt be putting all the blame and responsibility on the females. However, I also feel like girls who claim to not want to be objectified could easily avoid such by simply not presenting themselves in a sexual manner.
    Again... I just don't think PJ pics are over-the-top sexy!

    Do you remember being a 13, 14, 15 year old girl? I spent hours in front of the mirror picking apart my body, my complexion, my suddenly inflated tits (I was one of those girls that grew ALL the way and stopped growing at 12 and 13). We had fitness magazines all over my house, and I remember wanting a 6 pack so bad, wishing I had a narrower waist, and most of all - wondering if I was pretty. At that age, most girls are CRAVING validation! They're not worried about "being objectified," they're being perfectly normal teenage girls. Each "like" they get is validation of that scary worry in any young girls mind - that maybe they're not pretty.

    If they were posting pictures topless, or ass pictures with thongs, or something that showed any hint of nudity, that would cross the line. But it doesn't seem like they were. If I'd had facebook at that age, you bet your ass I would've been posting duck face selfies. Now, though, not so much.

    It's something they'll grow out of... But now, instead of getting that superficial validation, these girls are probably embarrassed and paranoid that they're "sluts," all because of a PJ picture. Who cares if they're still virgins, who cares if they've only ever kissed one boy, this bitch of a mother has just belittled and shamed them for doing nothing abnormal as far as teenage girl behavior goes. She might as well go to school tomorrow and hand out Burkas with a note that explains their sexuality completely invalidates any other redeeming qualities they may have, so they had better cover up!
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    I agree with this woman.. A bit. Yes, the blog is directed at the girls and can come off as blaming the girls for putting the "impure" thoughts in her sons' heads, and I would be very curious what sort of conversation she had with her sons over this. I really don't think she ended it with blaming the girls. I think the part where she wrote that her sons noticed one of the girls didnt have a bra on while her daughter noticed the girly details of her room says a lot. These girls don't even realize the image they are creating, they are purely motivated by the 100 likes they got on that sort of pic while maybe 5 on a pic of them at the park with their dog for example. I think it's important for teenage girls to realize why they are getting this attention so they can learn that their image is only one facet of what makes them likable or popular.

    I wish I saw the original bathing suit picture so I could comment on that, but no where in her blog did she condemn girls for posting in age appropriate bikinis (or was that deleted?). It sounds to me like the bra less pj pic and towel pic are innappropriate in her eyes bc those are moments that should not be shared with the world. And I agree with her. I don't think this woman would have a problem with her sons looking at models or even porn bc it is situational. Those women are playing a role.

    I think the fact she blocked the girls is setting her sons up for a Madonna/whore complex and preventing her sons from that a woman can be incredibly sexy but also very good at other things or very smart as demonstrated by her efforts in class. I think it's more important for her to teach them why girls post pics like this and that her sons should not treat her any differently than they did before they saw this side of her. And I think she should steer her boys towards dating women who show Facebook photos of them in public appropriate dress and save the intimate shots for their boyfriends when and if she deems them old enough to date.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Who the hell does she think she is? A raging narcissist to start. "Fear me and obey my rules or I shall smite your evil slut face from my facebook muahahahaha" is basically what this letter reads. I sincerely hope that the young women her sons date have more sense than to cry and get upset over what this troll does on the internet because she has no life and sees taking younger, more attractive women down a peg or two as the only way to compensate for her ailing attractiveness instead of confronting her issues and bettering HER OWN self esteem, which would result in her giving way less fucks about other people and more myob-ing!

    I have seen offensive and bad facebook photos, facebook came into being when I was in highschool and back in those golden days a looooot of raunchy shit got posted because fb wasn't yet crawling with employers, relatives, and being monitored by the government 24/7. Posting a picture of you pissing out your ho-ha because you are white girl wasted, yes, that kind of shit is ridiculous and no one wants to see that. This woman is freaking out over girls "not wearing bras" and being "scantily clad", it's clear that her definition of modesty is so narrow, and doesn't allow for anyone's personal interpretation. Or the fact that persona interpretations of modesty change over time. At 23 mine is not the same as it was when I was 17 for example. Do we need a fucking law on personal jurisdiction to get people to stop constantly sticking their nose in others' business? Yep, this woman's post made me preeeetty pissed.
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveHerButton View Post
    wait...what? was this a private HS? was the party at school? Why did the high school administration get involved in something that happened at a party?
    yes, private school and private house party. its pretty common for schools to monitor your fb. I'm thankful it was my hs that taught me to be so strict and not colleges or employers.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    So schools now monitor FB too? That is SO wrong and a privacy issue. I can see if it's the school's FB but not your private one. That's why I keep my page locked.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Now I'm going to make a liar out of myself by placing one more small post in here, but...

    I will probably never see eye to eye with many of the pinks about this. I feel that she was perfectly reasonable in trying to limit her teenage sons' exposure to their young teenage female friends posting towel shots and sultry, braless, skimpy PJ poses (all taken directly from her article), for all of the reasons that I previously outlined. But I promised to bail out previously, so I won't go any further on this front. What I can agree with, however, is the notion that the mother could have handled this better on the communication front.

    I agree that reaching out directly and privately to the girls in question would have been a better approach. Shaming these girls publicly was not necessary, even if one agrees with the mother (as I do) that the girl or girls in question exercised poor judgment. No young girl deserves to be "slut shamed" as I think simone put it, especially by an adult. Honestly I really didn't think about that aspect of this when I first posted on this topic.

    Anyway, I am back out for real this time, so please continue...

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    So schools now monitor FB too? That is SO wrong and a privacy issue. I can see if it's the school's FB but not your private one. That's why I keep my page locked.
    I agree, and find this whole high school party - getting in trouble - having issues with university - and then professional societies to be a lot more disturbing of a report than this one mother who has her set of ideas.

    I actually have a vision of some school administrator perving over student profiles, and I really think it's gross - without even getting into how it's totally inappropriate for someone to be getting in trouble in HS for something that has nothing to do with the school.

    I must say, that kind of stuff wouldn't happen around here, and I'm glad about that. Moreover, the whole idea that people should be judged forever one what they've done when they were teenagers is just generally disturbing. I don't even want to talk about the things I did, and fortunately, it's all gone and forgotten, as it should be.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    I do too. It horrifies me the idea some teacher looking at my FB page. I last attended school in 2004 when I got my masters and I know things have changed but still I don't want teachers to see what I do.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Clara_M View Post
    I agree, and find this whole high school party - getting in trouble - having issues with university - and then professional societies to be a lot more disturbing of a report than this one mother who has her set of ideas.

    I actually have a vision of some school administrator perving over student profiles, and I really think it's gross - without even getting into how it's totally inappropriate for someone to be getting in trouble in HS for something that has nothing to do with the school.

    I must say, that kind of stuff wouldn't happen around here, and I'm glad about that. Moreover, the whole idea that people should be judged forever one what they've done when they were teenagers is just generally disturbing. I don't even want to talk about the things I did, and fortunately, it's all gone and forgotten, as it should be.
    although never confirmed, we suspected another parent forwarded them. which makes it very relevant to this thread. its a private, all female (tho we had a brother school), christian school, and of course they had rules about conduct outside of school. that's how the real world works.

    anyway, you are entitled to have your opinions on what society should and should not judge but the reality is that society does judge and stupid teenage mistakes can live in for a long time if you insist on posting them on social media. any college worth attending and any employer period is going to google you so keeping inappropriate pictures offline is a lesson best learned early. I don't think its a coincidence that all of my friends with conservative profiles are successful and the ones that post everything are struggling.

  31. #45
    Veteran Member summerbre's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Now I'm going to make a liar out of myself by placing one more small post in here, but...

    I will probably never see eye to eye with many of the pinks about this. I feel that she was perfectly reasonable in trying to limit her teenage sons' exposure to their young teenage female friends posting towel shots and sultry, braless, skimpy PJ poses (all taken directly from her article), for all of the reasons that I previously outlined. But I promised to bail out previously, so I won't go any further on this front. What I can agree with, however, is the notion that the mother could have handled this better on the communication front.

    I agree that reaching out directly and privately to the girls in question would have been a better approach. Shaming these girls publicly was not necessary, even if one agrees with the mother (as I do) that the girl or girls in question exercised poor judgment. No young girl deserves to be "slut shamed" as I think simone put it, especially by an adult. Honestly I really didn't think about that aspect of this when I first posted on this topic.

    Anyway, I am back out for real this time, so please continue...
    I know you said you won't go any further, but...

    I'm just so curious as to how someone who partakes in a stripper forum could have such a conservative view when it comes to parental censorship. They're just nipples and shoulders! Women on TV shows are in towels for scenes, and let's not forget the 90s nipple craze. Jennifer Anniston on Friends, Sarah Jessica Parker on Sex and the City, Alyssa Milano on Charmed... could've all be cutting diamonds with the darts under their shirts. As far as I can tell, no 90s teens were permanently damaged by their exposure to cable.

    I'll admit, I'm *somewhat* playing Devil's advocate - because at the end of the day, I do believe it is very important to watch what you post online, and as a cognizant adult you will find no pictures of me in PJs or towels on any of my internet profiles - I've never even posted a picture of myself on this forum, for that very reason. But this woman took that warning and elevated it, so that it hardly became about internet safety, and was more about, again with the term, "slut-shaming."

    I'm just wondering why you think it was good parenting for the mother to police her sons' Facebooks that way, and what damage you think the images of their female friends (that they see every day at school, where they may not be wearing bras, either, 'cause I sure as hell didn't [andstilldon't]!) could've done to her children.

    I'm not attacking you, I reallllllyyyy just want to know.
    “The irony of commitment is that it's deeply liberating -- in work, in play, in love. The act frees you from the tyranny of your internal critic, from the fear that likes to dress itself up and parade around like rational hesitation. To commit is to remove your head as the barrier to your life.”
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  32. #46
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    ^LOL summerbre. Since you asked (warning, this is long)...

    I know how teenage boys think. Between the hormones messing with their heads and their general lack of exposure to sex, they get titillated far more easily than adults. Sex simply dominates their thinking. Now teen boys getting naked pics online or from someplace else is inevitable, as is them seeing a certain amount of skin on TV, though both can also be controlled to some degree. But it is something else entirely when it comes from a young girl who is in their social circle. This is a real life girl, who they know and hang with, who is giving them a look into her bedroom while posing seductively in a towel or skimpy PJs. Wow! Awesome!

    As the mother rightly pointed out, once a teenage boy sees something like this, it cannot be quickly unseen. Now instead of the beautiful, fun and sweet girl that she was, she’s now a half naked girl showing off for a bunch of hormonal teenage boys. I’d prefer my kids not to be getting their jerkoff material from their FB accounts, nor is it in the best interest of their female friends to be the source of that material.

    I'm not sure that "harm" is the right word with respect to these boys, but it does add a heightened sexualized element to their social group interactions that I’d prefer not to exist. It also makes it that much more difficult for me to train them to think the right way about these girls. She may simply be simply seeking “validation” or whatever, but these hormonal boys seeing her in a towel or skimpy bedroom wear, arching her back in seductive poses, think things like: “Fucking hot!” “She looks like she wants it.” “I wonder if I could screw her.” Etc., etc. You can also bet that the flames are being further fanned when the boys are talking about her with each other.

    And for you girls who really think that this is simply a matter of training boys properly, do you really think it was any different 50 years ago, or that it will be any different 50 years from now? I doubt that a girl walking around with her ass and tits barely covered by her clothes, and maybe even a camel toe outline of her vagina for good measure, is ever going to be viewed the same way as an equally beautiful, sexy woman who looks elegant and leaves a little mystery to her assets.

    Honestly, I’m finding some of the comments about this terribly naive, especially from girls who sell services of a sexualized nature to men. You understand, all too well, that some men place value upon what you offer. Did you really think that only applies to fucked up perverts or other odd types who can’t get laid? Do you really not understand it also has value IRL and that girls who offer it up too easily diminish it's value and, to some degree, themselves in the eyes of at least some men? Now imagine these issues x5 when talking about goofy hormonal teenagers.

    This mother understands all of this all too well. She wants her sons to see these girls, and indeed all girls, as the full people they are, not as one dimensional semi-nude objects. This is why she did what she did. She may not have gone about it in the best way, and I agree that “slut shaming” these girls was unnecessary, but she had good intentions IMHO.

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  34. #47
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Thanks!

    I see where you're coming from with most of that, and your explanation in the first 3 paragraphs makes a lot of sense, I can't help but agree with you there, to some extent.

    As for the pleas to train boy properly, the comments about sexual equality, "slut-shaming," etc. I don't think they're really derived from a place of naivety - We live in the same world you do, we're aware of the standards that exist in this culture and in this world. It's more likely these comments are derived from places of anger & hope, because we're fucking sick of the standards.

    There are days I literally get anxiety to go to the grocery store or gas station. When I go for a run outside, I intentionally seek out the least populated areas. Being a fairly introverted person, getting cat called when I'm going for a jog in shorts and a baggy T-shirt, or getting eye-stalked by a man in the frozen foods aisle that must be temporarily rendered with the delusion that he's a lion in the Serengeti and I'm a baby gazelle... Are far from pleasant experiences for me. At work, I flip a switch where staring, flirting and objectification is OK - it's a strip club, we get it, that's what everyone is there for. And when I'm in bed with someone, they BETTER be looking at me like a lion in the Serengeti! But when I'm pumping gas, wearing jean shorts because I live in 100 degree humidity, and the guy at the pump next to me tries chatting me up with a lead in that sounds vaguely like the start of an Akon song, my chest tightens and I leave with a half empty tank.

    There is a TIME and a PLACE to view and treat a woman sexually. You may find her attractive, but if you're not in a night club, a bar, a strip club, your own bedroom, then don't talk to her or look at her like you want to stick your dick in her. Is it really that hard to teach your sons this?

    ^Now I realize, this point deviates slightly from her letter - BUT the precursor to this type of behavior is that if a woman is somehow "asking for it," it's OK. That same behavior was encouraged by the nuances of "victim-blaming" and "slut-shaming" in this letter. Her sons are holding out for a "woman of character," that will help "keep their thoughts pure." So don't do anything that will potentially muddle the purity of a teenage boy's thoughts, with all those new and unfamiliar hormones coursing through their veins, because if you do... Well... Who knows what they might do, and regardless, that's on you, little girl.
    “The irony of commitment is that it's deeply liberating -- in work, in play, in love. The act frees you from the tyranny of your internal critic, from the fear that likes to dress itself up and parade around like rational hesitation. To commit is to remove your head as the barrier to your life.”
    - Anne Morris

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    This lady is going to be the mother-in-law from HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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  38. #49
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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    Summer, I'm sorry that you are going through that. But those types of guys are exactly what this mother is trying to prevent her sons from becoming. IMHO the reason that so many guys have no self control anymore is not because they had parents like her, but because they didn't. If her boys take her lessons to heart, they'll have a healthy respect for women and shouldn't be cat calling and eye balling girls simply because they are in running or jean shorts, nevermind the other crazy stuff that some guys do to, or think about, women.

    The young girls in question were posting provocative photos on a shared FB page, which is a tad more extreme. The mother's message was that it was inappropriate and not the primary way in which she wanted her teenage sons to think of these girls. She made it clear that she knows that these girls are so much more than that. That message was meant for both these girls AND her sons and it was a good one IMHO. I may not like the way she delivered the message, but I can't find fault with her intent, which includes telling those girls that they were exercising poor judgment. What I really wondered was where these girls' parents were in all of this and why were they so asleep at the switch?

    And for those around here who believe that you should be able to "express your sexuality" whenever and wherever you choose, but then pick who gets to react and how, I'll say that you're not being very realistic. A woman who goes out in clothes that leave little to the imagination (and I don't mean jean shorts or running outfits Summer - lol) should expect some unwanted attention. The people you come in contact with are human beings, not robots. LOL. Standards of behavior are a two way street. You cannot expect to do whatever you want, but then expect others not to react in any way. If you want people to treat you in a certain way, then you need to send the right message to begin with.

    And nothing I just said should be interpreted to mean that any girl ever deserves to be sexually abused or worse, regardless of what she is wearing or doing. Any guy should know better, and that includes guys in the clubs.

    Anyway, just my final and now I'm REALLY out of here.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 09-10-2013 at 12:59 PM.

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    Default Re: A Mom's letter to sons' female FB friends...

    I can see both of the points Summerbre and Rick made to be honest. I do want to mention something that I think applies to the women here though and that is because of non sex industry women showing more and more this means you need to often offer more to make money. Look at it this way, back in the 90's I was dancing in the clubs and things were much different there. Outside of a better economy (which is another issues)the clubs offered much less than they usually do today. Back then most clubs that I worked in were air dances where if the customer could touch you it was usually just the waist. Men would get in trouble just for touching my legs and I once got in trouble for accidentally bumping my breasts into a customer's head. I danced in bikini and topless clubs (though most of the topless were pastie or latex clubs)and would make money. Compare that to today where often nipple touching or kissing and other touching is the norm along with full friction dances. Many of the clubs I danced at that are still around went from no touch bikini clubs to full friction nude. Part of the reason is because clubs now have to compete with online which they never did before. I mean honestly why would a guy pay money for a no touch bikini dance now? Why would he when he can see more on the street? I have seen women wearing clothes on the street I wouldn't even wear in the clubs.

    Like Summerbre mentioned I too have been approached or cat called randomly. I am very shy actually and like to blend into wallpaper when I wasn't dancing and I dress very modestly. This hasn't stopped men from saying and doing harassing things to me that were offensive. When I did online dating I had men send me sexual messages (including penis shots)and even a few men I met did sexual things like flash me. I know many women who do online who have told me many stories of guys expecting sex on the first time meeting them or not long after. We have always lived in a sexualized society but it is getting worse.

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