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Thread: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

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    Dizzy Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    Since some of us, or all of us have experienced dips in earnings the past year, or so, this question is directed at You.(Especially those that do other adult work such as dancing, or escorting, massaging, along with camming.)
    A few months ago, I posted a thread about my best friend that massages, and escorts, who moved from L.A., to Lake Tahoe, because she wasn't making enough money anymore in L.A. in adult biz. (She had lived in Tahoe a few times, and bragged about how there is no competion there, and always made mad amounts of lmoney). She loves the low cost of living there, etc.
    She's now complaining that nobody has any money there, and she is stuggling to make ends meet. She usually charges from $300-up. She's apalled that she might have to drop her price to $100.
    She knew that I danced, but I don't tell her I still do,and that I cam, (too long of an explanation as to why I don't tell her). She just knows about my sales job.
    We all hear from guys, that they are broke, and can't buy a show, and I'm wondering if they are telling the truth. (Your thoughts?)
    Since I live in a city that is populated with over the top wealth, I don't think I have a barometor on the rest of the country/world.
    Your thoughts?
    Thanks so much for your input ladies! Glam

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    I want to give my opinion even tho camming hasn't been bad for me (so it may not be what you're looking for)... I've actually never had a guy tell me he's broke. I guess they just leave when they are. And I've never had this weird dating traffic everyone tells me about... aside from the occasional weirdo sending me an awkward inbox message I delete. But again, I also don't ever attract those types because I scare them off.


    I live in LA too and I know that it is sex-industry saturated because there are so many actress/models everywhere hoping for their next big breaks. I'm talking more about my friends who escort or used to dance here in LA. That's why so many of them tour. You basically HAVE to tour if you are a dancer or an escort and your goal is good money. But that's anywhere for the most part because of season.

    Camming, on the other hand, doesn't fall into that trap because men from all over the world can access it, and access it at any time. Its only a matter of time til they get to cam2cam with us on their lunch breaks from an ipad. Stuff like that, but that'll be a few years til it runs really smoothly (with SM at least). The more time that lapses, the more that everything is moving online IMO. I see it everyday.


    Sliiiiightly off topic, but LA is a hard place to live even as a sexworker, and I actually stick by my statement that it is more expensive than NY or SF as a whole by far. I'm from SF, and my roommate (who is a sexworker and SW girl) is from NYC, so we have compared lifestyles and LA is much more expensive. So if you're looking to save money, its not the place at all which sucks lol. Yes, what you'd pay in LA would get you a 1bed versus a studio in NY or SF, but you also have to pay for a car or cat payment, insurance, gas (and lots of it!), maintenance, etc.

    Also, sliiiiightly off topic, but I have a friend who runs an escort agency in LA and business has been bad for every single one of her girls, and only this year. She has her girls tour when they can, and there have been massive amounts of busts. I also live with an escort (in LA) who is from Stripperweb too, so I hear her rants about all this. Business is down for escorting all over though (unless you tour), and I've even seen some seasoned dancers complain (none in LA though, but dancing in LA hasn't ever really been the best).

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    Thanks GR. That's exactly why she moved to Tahoe, but to hear her complain about not much work there now, had me wondering. IDK, maybe she is not telling the truth. She is flying to L.A. for her birthday this week to see a regular she had there. I agree with You that internet is changing the adult biz, so I'm just going to live in my 'bubble' that believes that men are in my room to spend, or to spend on another day. (I really believe in positive thinking)

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    ^^^ I bet its only good in Tahoe in the winter when the men with money travel to ski on the slopes. And maybe during prime summer too when the people with money come out to the lakes with their boats. She should just tour maybe? Idk I'm not an escort though so I don't want to suggest things. There's a lot of info in the Other Work section on here that I've seen.

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    ^^That's what I was thinking about the touring, but I just don't say anything. I know her from my make-up artistry days. She was one of the models when we starting hanging out. So I just listen to her rants,but I don't feel comfortable telling her anything else. I kind of hinted that I might have to start doing phone sex, and just laughed.
    I can only worry about my own income at this point. I just know that whenever I go to a private party gig, the guys here throw 100's for tips, like it's nothing.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    ^^^ over the past couple of years, I have tried ( with varying degrees of success ) to point out that the vast majority of recent economic improvements have primarily benefitted the top 1-5% of American earners. I have also noted that (upper) 'middle class' Americans i.e. those below the top 10% of earners, have been hit with rising taxes, rising costs of 'necessary items' etc. such that their remaining 'discretionary' spending budgets have actually declined. To illustrate this difference, I have tried to point out how this has manifested itself economically, i.e. Ferrari having a record year, Toyota struggling, and Hyundai seeing moderate sales growth ... or Neiman Marcus having a record year, JC Penneys struggling, and WalMart seeing moderate sales growth.

    Tahoe = Toyota = JC Penneys !!!
    Aspen = Ferrari = Neiman Marcus !!!
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-04-2013 at 10:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    ^^^ in fact, the Social Security Administration just today released 2012 income stats ... see

    - the top 5% earnings cutoff is somewhere around $115,000 per year. That amounts to about 7 million Americans ( out of 315 million total population, or out of 153 million total American workers ). By educated guesswork, cutting this down to males, and further cutting this down to males between the ages of say 25 and 55, you're probably looking at 2 million potential 'prime' customers, tops. Then cut this down by the number of guys who would actually spend money on paid webcams and escorts ( versus those who can find all the sex they want for 'free', those who are gay, those who have moral or other restrictions etc. ) and, at most, you're left with a potential 'prime' customer pool of something under 1 million American guys.

    - 74% of American workers ( 113 million of them ) earned less than $50,000 per year, and thus probably can't afford to spend much of anything on 'luxury' items like paid webcam or escorts. If this group IS spending any money on escorts or paid webcam, it is a certainty that they aren't spending much ... and are probably expecting maximum 'bang' for minimum 'bucks'.

    - between these two extremes, you've got the remaining 21% of American workers ( 34 million of them ) who earn something between $50k and $115k per year. Applying the same 'filters' as above i.e. guys between age 25 and 55 etc. you're probably looking at a pool of some 10 million additional potential customers. Historically, this group USED to make up the lion's share of total customer spending. However, this ( lower ) 'middle class' has seen stagnant incomes, rising taxes, rising costs of 'necessary' items etc. for the past few years. Thus a fair number of Americans from this group who used to buy Toyotas are now buying Hyundais, and a fair number of Americans from this group who used to shop at JC Penney now shop at WalMart. I'm sure you can extend the analogy to the present spending habits by this group on escorts and paid webcam ... 'bargain' shopping, willing to sacrifice 'quality', etc.
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-04-2013 at 02:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    I do not necessarily think that money dried out but it's more that camming is definitely more saturated than it was. There were a good bit of mainstream media reports on camming in the past 18 months or so....I think the key to staying on top of it is to offer something different than the next girl. I have definitely seen more and more girls who go into camming or any other aspect of sex work and think they will just make lots and lots of money up front, and then it all crumbles when they realize it is not LIKE that....there is way too much competition nowadays.

    I think that LA is over-saturated, and I know this because I was at my friend's house recently, he lives in one of those penthouse apartment buildings in LA and knows most of his neighbors, he told me that the girls that lived there that weren't porn stars or that didn't work on "Channel 9"..or Entertainment Tonight, lol...or whatever.... were literally all escorts..and it makes sense...It only makes sense to live in LA as a sex worker if you have other businesses you want to get into while you are there...otherwise it is WAY too much money and waaaaaay too much driving for hours and hours and hours in traffic and never finding a parking spot.

    I just think the best thing for any sex worker really is to live in a place where you can capitalize on your profits. I think it is smarter, if somebody wanted to move to NYC, to live in a suburb of North Jersey instead because it's actually cheaper and faster to get into Manhattan that way, and the cost of living is muuuuch better, too.....so you can live somewhere exciting but not pay the costs of living associated with the 2-3 major cities, especially if you travel a lot..I think it was Melonie that mentioned that...and I was up visiting family recently and I never realized how many people lived there that work and have their social lives, etc in Manhattan every day and it is FASTER than living in some of the boroughs. Literally the only difference of the ones that work in NYC but live in NJ and those that work in NYC and live in Manhattan are that at the end of the day, when you come to your house just to sleep and shower as life is there....the ones in NJ are paying waaaay less than the ones in Manhattan and aren't claustrophobic

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    My thoughts are, guys who say they are "too broke" are NOT the type of guys you should be entertaining in your room, at the club, or anywhere else. For example: The other day I was in my room flirting and entertaining a few regulars. One guy in particular was sitting for a while and I didn't kick him, yell, or even give him any attention. All of a sudden, he asks me how he COULD get my attention and I told him, girls on cam sites prefer to be taken to private or exclusive for 1 on 1 fun for attention. All of a sudden, he did this!



    He PAID for my attention. I actually would've gotten more but the encoder crapped out and I logged off for the night. He probably is the type that just likes to see a girl smile but this proves my point. If they have the money and you've done your part the WILL spend on you.

    The economy can hurt a lot of people, but the adult biz has always and should always be a luxury service and some men will always have $$ no matter what. I find that men with money, unless they're frivolous do tend to budget, and keep their money but they will find time to put "fun" in their budget. Just because a guy isn't spending, doesn't mean he's "broke". However, I don't think he should be allowed to be entertained for free. When the economy gets bad, I think it's smart to have multiple eggs in ones basket, as well as try and be creative and change with the times. I would tell your friend to keep her rates higher than everyone else. Men tend to spend on things they value. If you're expensive and you have the "expensive" look, they will convert as they see the value in what you're offering. Yesterday when I got that $50 tip for nothing I might add, my prices were high. I actually got had a day full of tips and not one person took me pvt. It was exclusive ($7.99) and tips the whole shift.




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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    I think a lot of men still do have the money, but have way more "entitlement" issues as the years go by. Free tube porn is rampant, as well as girls out and about in day-to-day life who are totally willing to "go crazy" for free. On one hand, women should be able to do whatever the hell they want with their sexuality, but on the other hand, I think it's hurting guys' expectations about what they should get for how much. One of the reasons I can't handle strip clubs full time anymore is because it blows my mind to the point of getting physically angry when guys will haggle over a $20 lapdance. Like... do they realize what they're asking for? You're asking some hot chick that you don't know, and who doesn't know you and has zero personal incentive to pay any attention to you, to instantly take off her clothes and grind on you. If you can't comprehend how that's worth at least $20, you are brain-dead - or have serious entitlement issues.

    Same with camming. Men are so used to getting free porn now that they don't really grasp that asking some strange girl to strip down and diddle herself online just for his jerk-off material should cost a good amount of money.

    Also, IME with "broke" people, it's really not that they couldn't budget for most things, it's that they have no concept of budgeting. They'd have plenty of money for luxuries if they didn't go blow it all on other unnecessary crap. Like, I have a friend who used to live off about $800 a month, and yeah, she was sometimes short on bills or living off $10 for a few days until payday, but she still managed cuz she had to. But, a few months later now, she makes probably $2000 a month and still is always like "oh, I have no money to pay you back right now." Why? Because she uses all her extra money on just going out every night now. The second people have extra money, they generally don't save it or budget it for the nice luxuries (like sexual services), they just go blow it on other crap and then expect adult entertainers to offer "discount prices" so they can have their cake and eat it too.

    I'm not saying the economy or peoples' salaries aren't fucked up right now, or that the market isn't oversaturated, but these are other problems I see on top of/in addition to all that. I think the best strategy is do your homework and market yourself in a way that appeals to that top percentage of men who still understand quality = money. You can always differentiate yourself from the "low-end girls" who don't know what they're doing. Let them have the cheap, entitled custies, and do everything you can to appeal to that higher-end market.
    Last edited by Aurora_Sunset; 11-04-2013 at 06:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    I have been doing both, camming and escorting, camming for a little over a year, and escorting for a couple of years. I don't get as many outcalls as before, but I advertise less now, and I guess fewer foreigners are visiting my city (I avoid working with locals for many reasons, I am Bulgarian based in Sofia). I am more focused on camming right now, but it's usually the same regulars who spend good money and the rest, not so much. Compared to how easy it is to arrange an outcall and how quickly the money comes, camming requires a lot more patience, time, dealing with freeloaders and entitled guys, this issue is very minimized in escorting. However, even the foreigners visiting tend to expect a lot for nothing. High value for little money. I am going to post a quote from a review written by an American guy about his experience with a local escort, posted on an international punters' forum:
    "The girl was the same in the photo, easily a 7/8. She was kind and bubbly. Standard rate was 100lv full service. No kissing, no going down on her, but she moved like nothing else while on top of me. Very nice experience. No rushing. She said she was 20yrs old which sounded about right from her looks and the firmness of her body. After we were done she called me a cab and I was back to the hotel. I've read here that 60lv should be the standard but my limited capacity and language barrier dictated I pay more, I guess."
    Just for info, 100 lv is about 50 euros, 60 lv is 30 euros. So he actually paid very little for a very good-looking girl, yet is not happy and thinks he was overcharged. Guys are becoming ridiculously cheap.

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    Aurora, I totally agree with you on all of that. I believe it's a mixture of the economy, people's willingness to accept their economic status (and budget accordingly), and entitlement issues. I haven't seen a huge decline in my earnings this year. What I've seen is a return to what my earnings were two years ago. I'm trying to think of last year as an anomaly. It keeps me sane.

    Last year I made more than the year before, and my spending got way out of control. Even though I've been actively paying off debt, I was spending more on luxury items than I needed to spend. I was also throwing money around, spoiling other people. Not in a huge way, but I was showing off a little. Then when my earnings started to decrease, I immediately tightened the purse strings. Very little spending on luxury items. I'm not struggling at all to pay my bills, even though I've seen a marked decrease. Why? Because I've been very realistic about it, and I'm also now spending as though my earnings will continue to decrease in the same fashion. AND recognizing that my bills will continue to increase (rent, groceries, health insurance) despite my income.

    There are a number of factor affecting adult industry customers' "entitlement" issues, but we've discussed them ad nauseam.

    I will say that, in my experience, it is my "regulars" that are still willing to spend good money, in general. There are many who have been "spoiled" by the bargain basement mentality, but generally they are the ones who are still spending. The new guys on my cam site (SM) are the ones who aren't spending. Or rather, I should say that if they do spend, they spend a lot once and then never spend again. I know every girl's experience varies.

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    yes Aurora!!! I agree with that completely. Used to be that a man would only see his wife naked or near nude and now you can open any magazine and get there :. demand goes down etc.
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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    I am a really bad data point, so I am not sure what good my opinion is on this issue --- but (sickness aside) I've been making about the same/a little more then I made last year. My earnings really haven't been affected by the downturn in the economy but I've only been a camgirl for two years so that really isn't much time at all to even be able to start looking for patterns in my income.

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    I'm not saying the economy or peoples' salaries aren't fucked up right now, or that the market isn't oversaturated, but these are other problems I see on top of/in addition to all that. I think the best strategy is do your homework and market yourself in a way that appeals to that top percentage of men who still understand quality = money. You can always differentiate yourself from the "low-end girls" who don't know what they're doing. Let them have the cheap, entitled custies, and do everything you can to appeal to that higher-end market.
    Precisely !!! As I already pointed out, the top 10% of probable strip club, webcam, and escort customers now have more money than ever available for 'luxury' spending. The 'trick' is for the dancer, camgirl and escort to 'position' themselves such that they are able to appeal to these top 10% of probable customers !!!

    Arguably, dancers, camgirls and escorts who are 'stuck' dealing with the other 90% of customers are going to be forced to deal with the increasingly negative side effects of these customers' declining 'luxury' budgets ... expectations of maximum 'bang' in exchange for their 'bucks', increasing 'mercenary' treatment ( I paid you the $20 bi%ch, so get busy before I move on to another girl ), bargaining, etc.

    Also agreed that the persistent poor economy is 'forcing' more and more girls to attempt to earn money by dancing, camming or escorting, with the majority of these new girls lacking the 'credentials' to position themselves in the top 10% market. This arguably only accelerates the negative side effects in the other 90% market.


    you can live somewhere exciting but not pay the costs of living associated with the 2-3 major cities, especially if you travel a lot..I think it was Melonie that mentioned that...and I was up visiting family recently and I never realized how many people lived there that work and have their social lives, etc in Manhattan every day and it is FASTER than living in some of the boroughs.
    Yup, after living in Manhattan for a year, I decided to move to north Jersey ... which allowed me to 'keep' a significantly higher amount of the money I had earned, thanks to lower rent prices, lower state and local tax rates, bargain prices at big box stores etc. But while this is an important factor, it's actually a separate matter from declining earnings.


    I do not necessarily think that money dried out but it's more that camming is definitely more saturated than it was
    The official statistics tend to indicated that it's a combination of both ... 90% of probable customers having less money available for 'luxury' spending, combined with a larger number of girls now competing for that smaller pool of total customer dollars. But, again, certain girls may be able to earn just as much, or even more money, even in this declining market !!!
    Last edited by Melonie; 11-05-2013 at 04:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    This is a good thread:

    Someone should make a camming vs dancing vs escorting one. I don't know who has done all 3 though but there's probably several girls on here

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    Default Re: Camming And The Economy~Your Thoughts ~I'll Explain inside

    Thanks everyone for Your input! So many great points made!

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