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Thread: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

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    Default Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Objectification by customers and staff and the world in general can have a devastating downside. if you dread going into work the damage may have already begun.

    {snip}
    Definition:

    Objectification - The practice of treating a person or a group of people like an object.

    Description:
    A common practice among people who suffer from personality disorders is objectification. Objectification is normally a form of prioritization where the needs and concerns of other individuals are ranked below the needs and concerns of the personality-disordered individual. As such, objectification is rarely emotional in nature.
    Objectification is often associated with gender discrimination, as-in "objectification of women" which refers to the practice of treating women as domestic servants or as sexual property. However, objectification has a broader meaning.
    University of Chicago Professor Martha C. Nussbaum classified Objectification into the following categories:

    • Instrumentality - Instrumentality is when a person is treated like a tool for another person's own purposes.
    • Denial of autonomy - Denial of autonomy is when a person is denied the right to make decisions for themselves.
    • Inertness - An Assumption of Inertness describes when a person is treated as if they lack the capacity to act for themselves.
    • Ownership - Ownership describes a condition where one person is treated as if they are owned by, or is a slave to, the other person.
    • Fungibility - Fungibility describes a condition where one person is treated as if they are dispensable or can be traded or discarded by another person.
    • Violability - Violability describes a situation where a person is treated as if it is ok to hurt, or destroy them.
    • Denial of subjectivity - Denial of subjectivity describes a condition where a person is treated as if there is no need to show concern for their feelings.

    Acts of objectification typically enrich the perpetrator at the expense of the victim. What the perpetrator fails to recognize is the cost to themselves in the form of long term personal security. People who objectify others build their own form of solitary confinement, knowing that by sacrificing the trust and good will of others, they are vulnerable to eventual demise of their power. Dictatorships generally last for years or decades but typically collapse very quickly.
    Objectification is common among people who suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. Objectification also occurs among people who suffer from Histrionic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder.


    What it feels like:
    If you have been the subject of objectification, you are probably familiar with the emotions of fear and anger. Anger comes from having your dignity and your rights violated by another person who has considered their own needs to be more important than yours. You may feel an urge to retaliate or get even. Fear comes from knowing that they may hold a certain amount of authority or influence and that if they did it once, they are likely to do it again.
    A secondary but perhaps more significant effect of being objectified is a loss of self-worth. Many of us derive a significant portion of our self-worth from the validation that comes from other people. It is very difficult for a victim of objectification not to look at themselves and ask "What did I do to deserve this?" or "What is wrong with me that they treat me this way?" In this way the victim can become vulnerable to blaming themselves for the actions of the abuser and to assume that their abuse is normal, deserved, inescapable and inevitable. See our information on Shame and Shaming.


    Coping with Objectification - What NOT to Do:

    • Don't beg or plead with someone who objectifies you to be kind. Ask for what you want once and if they don't give it to you then you have your answer.
    • Don't take objectification personally - objectification is the act of a disordered individual. It says nothing meaningful about your own value or worth as a person.
    • Don't try to gain control over a person who mistreats you. Focus on controlling yourself.
    • Don't react with indignation, anger or retribution. If your feelings are being disregarded then your reaction will not have a big impact.
    • Don't treat mistreatment at the hands of another as some sort of investment that will pay off in the long run. If you are being hurt by the deliberate choice of another individual it is not likely to be repaid in the future.
    • Don't accept treatment that is anything short of respectful, considerate and appropriate.

    Coping with Objectification - What TO Do:

    • If possible, accept small sacrifices to remove yourself from the influence of a person who objectifies you.
    • Build relationships with people who respect you, admire you, treat you well and who give as much as they take.
    • If you see someone else being abused or neglected, report it.

    For more information check out:

    http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBeh...ification.html


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    God/dess Flickdreams's Avatar
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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Bump, thanks O xx
    Tiny tweaks----->BIG CHANGES

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirakonstantin View Post
    More fear-mongering? Really? Yes, this is not the 1990's anymore. Yes, things are changing. Either dance or don't. Freaking out and sowing fear isn't going to help anyone.




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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    I cant believe there has been no discussion on this! Self Worth is a fundamental part of life, and we could collectively draw many examples and insights from the adult work industry.

    Gah! i would love to have some discussions on SW about our inner worlds- not that I don't enjoy and learn from the "best hair colour" and "cock size" threads, I have a real laugh at the troll threads too BUT, can't we get a little deeper on vulnerability my Web Lovelies?
    Tiny tweaks----->BIG CHANGES

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirakonstantin View Post
    More fear-mongering? Really? Yes, this is not the 1990's anymore. Yes, things are changing. Either dance or don't. Freaking out and sowing fear isn't going to help anyone.




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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    There is also this attitude that some dancers have towards other women or men in general that they exist to be used in some way whether that be for money or favors. For me the games exist only when I'm at work and outside of work I treat people how I would like to be treated. Some girls I know are always "hustling" everyday like it is their identity rather than saved for the right time and place. I don't want to flirt with people I don't like just to get some small favor out of them. I can take care of myself just fine through hard work and being independent. It would be too much to try to manipulate all these people and deal with their various reactions to being used. People tire of this quickly and you don't gain any real friends by making inauthentic friendships. You just end up knowing a lot of sub par people.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    ^Because I feel men owe me and not the reverse the guys who prey on weaknesses and naivety do not spend on me...I do think dumbing myself down some may help..The guys who prey on women seem to be the majority of SC patrons now. That or to just drink and socialize and stare for free. Which is a waste of my time and energy.

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    Senior Member chloe25's Avatar
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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    A lot of people have a moral opinion on stripping that it "objectifies women", I honestly don't feel like i take objectification personally. Or perhaps within the context of a strip club I'm happy to be objectified for the purposes of doing my job and making money. I do feel like where customers are dismissive or rude to me, that speaks more about who they are as people, then about me. I don't see myself as being any lesser a person, because someone has said something nasty to me, in a club. I try my best not to take things personally

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Yeah my self worth isn't tied up with the SC customers or what they think of me. They objectify me, I objectify them. I'm just a hot stripper to them that they want to see naked; they're just a wallet to me. It doesn't bother me. I do see how this transaction could erode the self esteem of a young or insecure dancer without a strong sense of self though.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    I don't take my job so personally that I feel objectified or degraded because literally no one there knows me, they know the product I sell which is a fantasy *I* create. They are not objectifying me, but the character I choose to show them. I think you're doing it wrong if you are feeling objectified in this line of work.

    In personal relationships is where this matters a lot, I agree.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Yep. Can't take it personally at work.
    I've been known to think "Shut up and objectify me already!" with guys who want to 'get to know me'.
    I do not give a rats patoot what a bunch of guys in the strip club think about me. They are in the club for a reason of some kind, one that is either sad or nefarious, so why on earth would I care what they think?
    Part of this is probably that my Myers Briggs type is INTJ, which literally don't comprehend the idea of authority or caring what other people think. I'm almost like Sheldon, baffled: "Why would you tell me your opinion? Am I supposed to care?"

    I actually don't mind objectification outside the club either. It makes my life much easier when men go all Hot Girl Present Caveman Mode. The only time I don't enjoy it is if they take the opposite road and decide that I'm hot and therefore stupid
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by chloe25 View Post
    A lot of people have a moral opinion on stripping that it "objectifies women", I honestly don't feel like i take objectification personally. Or perhaps within the context of a strip club I'm happy to be objectified for the purposes of doing my job and making money. I do feel like where customers are dismissive or rude to me, that speaks more about who they are as people, then about me. I don't see myself as being any lesser a person, because someone has said something nasty to me, in a club. I try my best not to take things personally
    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday86 View Post
    Yeah my self worth isn't tied up with the SC customers or what they think of me. They objectify me, I objectify them. I'm just a hot stripper to them that they want to see naked; they're just a wallet to me. It doesn't bother me. I do see how this transaction could erode the self esteem of a young or insecure dancer without a strong sense of self though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Selina M View Post
    Yep. Can't take it personally at work.
    I've been known to think "Shut up and objectify me already!" with guys who want to 'get to know me'.
    I do not give a rats patoot what a bunch of guys in the strip club think about me. They are in the club for a reason of some kind, one that is either sad or nefarious, so why on earth would I care what they think?
    Part of this is probably that my Myers Briggs type is INTJ, which literally don't comprehend the idea of authority or caring what other people think. I'm almost like Sheldon, baffled: "Why would you tell me your opinion? Am I supposed to care?"

    I actually don't mind objectification outside the club either. It makes my life much easier when men go all Hot Girl Present Caveman Mode. The only time I don't enjoy it is if they take the opposite road and decide that I'm hot and therefore stupid
    Yeah.....you guys have no idea what objectification means. You have individual, made up definitions. Here's what it means:


    Being treated like a tool for another person's own purposes as in a guy touching you wherever , holding you to his erection even if you try to get away, poking a finger into your anus, vagina, etc. without consent
    Denial of autonomy is when a person is denied the right to make decisions for themselves. The customer does whatever he pleases and does not seek your prior consent.
    Ownership describes a condition where one person is treated as if they are owned by, or is a slave to, the other person.
    Fungibility describes a condition where one person is treated as if they are dispensable or can be traded or discarded by another person. Management and support staff treating you as dispensable and each other with respect and consideration.
    Violability describes a situation where a person is treated as if it is ok to hurt, or destroy them. A customer believes it's ok and can twist your nipple, drug you, etc. You're a stripper=you can be murdered and dumped if the customers feel like it.

    No one wants to be treated this way. In some cases these kinds of customers and management are doing illegal things they would never do to others but we are seen as easy designated targets. That has no connection with making money because this kind of customer would use your services then refuse to pay you!Why because you're an object and your feelings don't matter.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Feel free to add any comments or question you want us to give. We want to save newbies from the bullshattery and help you have as long a dance career as YOU CHOOSE. No one should have to quit or suffer from trauma. We can help each other avoid the pitfalls and all stay safe and sane and sober. <<<<hugs>>>>

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    Definition:

    Objectification

    Description:
    A common practice among people who suffer from personality disorders is objectification.

    http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBeh...ification.html

    So I have a question about that specific sentence. Is this saying that people with personality disorders are more likely to objectify people. Or people with personality disorders are more likely to be objectified?

    The reason I ask is because the last man I dated had a personality disorder. After a couple of months worn him I realized that he objectified me as well as other woman.
    In fact he was the reason I actually started sex work industry. It was always something I fantasized about, but until I met him I never thought I had the body. But he, a strip club regular, convinced me that I'm beautiful and would make one hell of a stripper.
    Would you believe me if I said I do it because I like it?

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Anyone can objectify you. My sister tried it on me & actually laughed at me when I quit responding to her excuses and provocations. People who are deeply personality disordered actually "feel" like others are only two dimensional characters in their world.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    To continue about my crazy ex: He also used to say he doesn't really think of strippers as people when he hit the club....
    Would you believe me if I said I do it because I like it?

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    I felt more objectified in my underpaid, thankless vanilla jobs TBH. Like with sex work at least I was being paid an appropriate rate to be objectified. I know it's shitty and dudes can get abusive. This was just my experience.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Denial of autonomy - Denial of autonomy is when a person is denied the right to make decisions for themselves.
    Heh- seen plenty of feminists try to do this to sex workers. Assuming that we're all victims in need of salvation from the big, bad patriarchy. I'd love to show them this.
    "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people. "-Mr. Garrison, South Park.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Denial of autonomy - Denial of autonomy is when a person is denied the right to make decisions for themselves.
    Heh- seen plenty of feminists try to do this to sex workers. Assuming that we're all victims in need of salvation from the big, bad patriarchy. I'd love to show them this.
    I argue with those feminists all the godamn time. Equally annoying are the young, dumb "sex-positive" feminists who think sex work is inherently "empowering". Bitch, I'm just trying pay for my cheetos and student loans by grinding up on your dad. Maybe let's not make such a big deal out of it.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by HoneyBunchesO'Cunts View Post
    I argue with those feminists all the godamn time. Equally annoying are the young, dumb "sex-positive" feminists who think sex work is inherently "empowering". Bitch, I'm just trying pay for my cheetos and student loans by grinding up on your dad. Maybe let's not make such a big deal out of it.
    I identify as a sex positive feminist.
    Would you believe me if I said I do it because I like it?

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    So thanks for calling me young and dumb.
    Would you believe me if I said I do it because I like it?

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by SuccubusSasha View Post
    I identify as a sex positive feminist.
    I do too. My issue is with women (usually young and wealthy) who haven't done sex work a day in their life and think it's really cool and glamorous 24/7 instead of just a job with good days and bad days and smelly ballsacks occasionally. I feel these women don't understand the meaning of sex positive and sometimes engage in sex work very briefly in a really gross "touristy" way because they have Daddy's trust fund to fall back on. Then they meet sweatpants boner man.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Thank you for elaborating on that, I get what you're saying now.
    I don't think I've met many of these :/
    Would you believe me if I said I do it because I like it?

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by SuccubusSasha View Post
    Thank you for elaborating on that, I get what you're saying now.
    I don't think I've met many of these :/
    No worries. Have you met many female undergrads from NYU, Sarah Lawrence, or Wesleyan? LOL. I'm mostly kidding. I was definitely insufferable at 18 too so I should probably nicer.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    I too identify as a sex positive feminist, as do supposedly all my friends. But let me have one bad night and bitch a little and they are all urging me to quit and use my brain and all that garbage. It's all fun and games until you try to level with them that is just like any job. They are all being treated by men the same way in their PR/HR/account manager roles but fail to acknowledge it. At least I get to take the males undeserved profits.

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by kamiliam View Post
    I too identify as a sex positive feminist, as do supposedly all my friends. But let me have one bad night and bitch a little and they are all urging me to quit and use my brain and all that garbage. It's all fun and games until you try to level with them that is just like any job. They are all being treated by men the same way in their PR/HR/account manager roles but fail to acknowledge it. At least I get to take the males undeserved profits.
    Lol yep, I get that. My roommate is the kind of feminist mentioned earlier, where she thinks that people (not just women) in sex work wouldn't truly be in sw if they had a better option. And that we are all objectified, even if we do not see it now. Yet she seems to hves no qualms with women doing pretty much the exact things, but not for pay. Like I can have dates over, but if it's a 'John', nope. We have some really deep discussions but it's such a difficult thing to talk about since everyone has their own reasons to be a SW.

    Sometimes I like to think of it like being a feminist Robin hood.
    Taking money from the patriarchy, while just barely treading through it.
    Would you believe me if I said I do it because I like it?

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    Default Re: Objectification : the Long Term Destruction of Your Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by SuccubusSasha View Post
    So I have a question about that specific sentence. Is this saying that people with personality disorders are more likely to objectify people. Or people with personality disorders are more likely to be objectified?

    The reason I ask is because the last man I dated had a personality disorder. After a couple of months worn him I realized that he objectified me as well as other woman.
    In fact he was the reason I actually started sex work industry. It was always something I fantasized about, but until I met him I never thought I had the body. But he, a strip club regular, convinced me that I'm beautiful and would make one hell of a stripper.
    You already have your answer. People with Personality Disorders have an attachment disorder. So the problem is they don't see people in their complexity. They see them in terms of what ideal they represent. So best case scenario he was seeing you as a perfect bodied dancer. Problem is once you have a falling out you will look like the ugliest woman on earth to him. PD's have a warped view of the world. Feelings equal facts.

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