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Thread: Customer wants to help me invest

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    Veteran Member ~*SwanPrincess*~'s Avatar
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    Default Customer wants to help me invest

    I have a customer Ive gotten to know well over the past two years. He owns a very successful business and is very wealthy and generous to me.
    Out of all the regular customers Ive had in the past 8 years, I trust him and enjoy my time with him most. Hes respectful, classy, and overall a good person.

    He knows I make good money, and that Ive made and saved a lot of money in my dancing career. In the past two months or so he has been trying to get me interested in the stock market. He brings me pamphlets from Putnam and Fidelity and tries to explain the benefits of investing to me.

    Im going through a major life change right now, and haven't put much thought into it aside from my conversations with him.

    Christmas is coming up soon, and he told me for Christmas he would like to invest $5,000 in my name divided among five of the top investment firms. He said even though that's not a ton of money, he just wants to show me what can happen when you invest and the profits that can be made.

    Heres the kicker. He wants me to give him my full name, birthday, etc. so he can move forward with this. He asked me for that info yesterday, and I said I wanted to look over the pamphlets some more in case I found something specific I would like the money to be invested in. (That was bullshit, I just didnt want to give my personal info)

    I have googled him before, and I know he is who he says he is. (54, married, business owner, Ive seen his black card, Bentley, etc.) I have no doubts about that. Should I do this? Or would that be totally crazy?

    I truly feel like he has good intentions, but is there something negative that could come from this that Im not thinking of? I can be pretty naive in some areas......

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    As a longtime customer, I know what a big deal it is to know a dancer's personal info, and have known some dancers,and their husbands, as personal friends[still do, they are just not dancers anymore]

    If I was asking for that info for even the most honest of reasons I would have an elaborate conversation planned, starting out with something like "Look I am not a stalker..."

    As much as I would love to raise the 'custy's aint all freaks' banner, at his age, after 2 years[and not knowing it up to now] he must know what he is asking, and to have no acknowledgement of that is a bit of a flag.

    Let me ask this, is he aware of what is going on in your life right now?

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    Veteran Member ~*SwanPrincess*~'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    He knows my real first name, but not my last name. Hes very, very polite and respectful and is always careful not to push or cross any lines. He knows Ive dealt with a few crazies over the years, and I feel he tries so hard never to come across as nosy, or stalker-ish.

    This is gonna sound mean, but honestly I dont trust or genuinely like too many people. (Ive been burned in personal relationships with guys and girls many, many times) But I sincerely like this guy. To me he's the most ideal customer Ive ever had.

    He does know about the recent changes in my life. I didn't elaborate, cause when I do I get very sad and upset. I have missed a lot of work lately, he asked why and I told him I left my husband. He said I could talk to him if I ever needed to, but didn't push for more info about it.

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    Veteran Member BANHammerGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    well, could you ask him to give you the money, and you will follow whatever directions he says about putting it into the firms accounts? and then going from there?
    because that's the same thing. If he wants you to trust him with your information than I see no problem with you asking to have him trust you that you're not just going to spend that money on something besides investing. While it is useful that you know he's married and has a business so he's maybe less likely to go crazy because you could ruin his marriage and part of his business reputation, clearly you don't want to give him the info.

    don't beat yourself up. Apologize and explain that you do trust him but you have a rule that you're no longer going to give out your personal information after something that happened awhile back (feel free to make it up) and that you'd always be worried that it would happen again. Then offer an alternative where you would follow his directions to the letter in signing up or accounts with certain firms and then you two can go from there with your investment schooling

    *stolen from AutumnAmbrosia*

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    I would largely do this ^ - but avoid asking for the money, as it'll possibly mess up a long-time regular. I'd tell him that I want to try his advice with my own money. (If you don't trust him enough for real information, $5000 shouldn't be making you change your mind. On the other hand, it'll look like you want the money and not follow his advice otherwise.) It sounds like he may well be genuine and caring (though perhaps with a few other hopes - which doesn't mean that he would pursue them in inappropriate ways) and wants you to have a secure future. Some men can be like that.

    To continue getting his advice, if you think that it's worth it, you print out investment statements in such a way as to avoid your personal details showing up on them. If it's obvious that you've had to wipe them off (as opposed to just leaving a page out), you could always say that you don't want it floating around the club because if some other girl was able to associate it to you, it could make for difficult relations in the club and/or that you don't want the club people knowing where you live, etc.

    Another option would be to anonymize your holdings to a degree by (a) putting an address other than your home address (mailbox service, etc) - never a bad idea anyway and (b) holding them through a corporation, like those lovely LLCs that are available in the U.S. My understanding is that they're tax-neutral and that in SOME states it's possible to keep the directors' names off public record (in case he were to look). I'm not sure I'd really trust this all that much, but it's better than nothing, at least.

    I must say, personally, I don't trust much of anything :-).

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Quote Originally Posted by BANHammerGoddess View Post
    well, could you ask him to give you the money, and you will follow whatever directions he says about putting it into the firms accounts? and then going from there?
    because that's the same thing. If he wants you to trust him with your information than I see no problem with you asking to have him trust you that you're not just going to spend that money on something besides investing.
    This was going to be my suggestion. The information you need to provide to open an investment is intense and doesn't just stop at name and birthday. He will ask for more and there is no way I would be comfortable with anyone other than a financial planner having all of that information. Crazy stalker aside, he could easily steal your identity or do god knows what with your information. You have only known this man for two years and entirely in the context of a customer in the club. He may be a nice and respectful man, but you have no idea what he's like in real life. I vote no on the sharing of your information and letting him run it all for you. If that means you don't get the 5K from him, I think that's a small price to pay for what could very easily end up being a bad situation.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    It is good that you are being careful with this situation for many reasons. Ask yourself a few questions ...

    1. Can you afford to loose this customer? Even though this seems simple enough, there is always the chance it could end everything. I am not saying it will happen, just that it is possible.

    2. Can you afford to loose 5k? Just because someone is rich doesnt mean they have alot of money or knowledge. Sounds like I am insane. But I have seen enough bank accounts to know the truth isnt always what it seems. Once again, he may invest it well and you may make alot of money ..... But the first rule of investing, if you cant afford to loose it then dont invest it.

    3. Do you trust him with your personal information? What is he going to do with that information? Could he just tell you what to do with the money and you do it for yourself?


    Maybe that is the easiest way to handle it. I wouldnt mention your real concerns though. Tell him you want to learn how to do it yourself. You learn the best by doing it yourself. So if he told you what to do, how to do it, and why you would learn alot more. Then gage his response from there ....
    Last edited by Vamp; 11-09-2013 at 10:11 AM.
    Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. ~ Mark Twain


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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Tell him you want to learn how to do it yourself. You learn the best by doing it yourself. So if he told you what to do, how to do it, and why you would learn alot more. Then gage his response from there ....
    Exactly-- I thought about trying to word this out in my post but decided not to due to time-- but you nailed it perfectly and concisely.

    *stolen from AutumnAmbrosia*

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    One of the reasons I was really skeptical was that he would need my social security number. Obviously, as everyone knows, thats always a terrible idea.

    I think his goal in all this is to help me be smart about my money. I have a lot saved in my safety deposit box, but that money is just sitting there.

    I really don't care about his 5k. I just dont. I have my own money. I truly am interested in possibly investing some of my own, but I am really struggling with the idea of someone having my ssn. Its not that its HIM, I just am so un trusting of everyone. I am a control freak at times, especially about money

    I love the idea of telling him I learn by doing things myself. Maybe Ill just ask if he knows of good financial advisors in my city and that Im going to invest some of my own money. Maybe that would cue him to give me his 5k to invest on my own. That way I can keep him as a good regular, have my identity still private, and maybe invest his money along with my own.

    Thank you guys so much for the good advice. Ive struggled with this for a few days because I wasn't quite comfortable giving out my personal info, yet at the same time I wanted to avoid seeming like I didnt trust him or that I was being ungrateful and rude. Now I feel like I have found a happy medium in this whole situation !

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    I am glad we were able to help ......

    Be sure to gage his response too. If he gives you a hard sell about him doing it and pushing you hard for your info; something else is up. If he really does want to help you he wont mind showing you how. Finding out his true intentions without bruising his ego is the easiest way to protect yourself on all fronts.
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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    I used to care more about bruising egos but I think it's good to be a straight shooter so you can attract and deal with other straight shooters. You should be able to say to this guy "write out your picks and instructions, give me the money and we'll make a game of following the progress step by step" I don't think that's unreasonable if he's not grooming you for some kind of con later. If he's butt hurt over any of that then he's a PIA and sneaky and should be dealt with cautiously.

    Generally, I think we see these guys and the business relationship with them as too fragile. I think we're too willing to sacrifice our safety dignity etc. because we fall for the bs that guys play in the clubs. See them with other men and suddenly they toughen up and respect directness. I bet he's not that fragile.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Veteran Member ~*SwanPrincess*~'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    I like that idea Optimist. Usually I would be more direct, but hes always been so reserved and polite I find myself mirroring his personality when it comes to him and never wanting to come on too strong.

    For example: in VIP when our time is up, Ill ask if he wants to do another hour and he will say. "Whatever you want hun, sure. " (see why I say hes an ideal customer)

    Im pretty sure if I was direct and more of a "sharp shooter" he would most likely comply.

    I keep thinking of ways he could possibly con me (cause I dont trust anyone, not cause Im suspicious).That's kind of why I even made this post.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Quote Originally Posted by ~*SwanPrincess*~ View Post
    I like that idea Optimist. Usually I would be more direct, but hes always been so reserved and polite I find myself mirroring his personality when it comes to him and never wanting to come on too strong.

    For example: in VIP when our time is up, Ill ask if he wants to do another hour and he will say. "Whatever you want hun, sure. " (see why I say hes an ideal customer)

    Im pretty sure if I was direct and more of a "sharp shooter" he would most likely comply.

    I keep thinking of ways he could possibly con me (cause I dont trust anyone, not cause Im suspicious).That's kind of why I even made this post.

    No no, not a sharp shooter, a straight shooter! Don't kill 'em, girl! You can use his same tone and volume level when stating how you'd like to handle this shared adventure. You don't have to J.A.D.E. meaning you don't have to justify argue defend or explain why you want to do his experiment/gift differently. You don't have to worry. You have the power to redirect this situation.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Lol I mean STRAIGHT shooter!!! Ahhh I have my little blonde moments every now and then :-)

    I like the advice Optimist. I think I explain the things I do in life far too much anyway, but this cant be one of those situations. Im just going to politely, directly and confidently proceed with this situation this week!

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Make sure he actually is a licensed broker, or can prove his employment there otherwise its illegal. But even then its based on risk, so it has to be money you don't mind losing. Honestly you would do much better learning the stock market on your own, than trusting your money with other people.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    What he would do is take the money hes giving me to his broker and put it in my name. Hes not a broker.

    This investment thing is something he brought up on his own as an idea for a Christmas gift.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Quote Originally Posted by ~*SwanPrincess*~ View Post
    What he would do is take the money hes giving me to his broker and put it in my name. Hes not a broker.

    This investment thing is something he brought up on his own as an idea for a Christmas gift.
    Perhaps suggest him setting up a meeting for you (without him) with his broker? Or putting you in contact with the broker to do that yourself? I'm sure he can even give the broker the 5k and tell him that it's to be invested for you, and that way he has the guarantee of knowing that it will go towards an investment rather than random purchases. There is just literally no situation in which I would ever advocate sharing so much of your personal information with a client or anyone that isn't a broker/directly investing it.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Quote Originally Posted by ~*SwanPrincess*~ View Post
    What he would do is take the money hes giving me to his broker and put it in my name. Hes not a broker.

    This investment thing is something he brought up on his own as an idea for a Christmas gift.
    That sounds like a scheme for free dances lol, you have to take the money yourself to the broker. He can come with you if he likes, but you fill out all the legal forms yourself.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Hes not a cheap loser. He would never do that. He has a black card. He doesn't have to get "free dances".
    Ive been dealing with this man for two years and not once has he tried to negotiate my prices or anything remotely similar. And my VIP prices are high.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    I would go with him to the broker and when the broker asks for the personal info, write it down and hand it to him without your client seeing your social. The most important part is he doesn't see your social. If you've known him for 2 years and he has a black card, I just don't see why he'd try to steal YOUR identity. More like you should steal his..lol JK. I would absolutely take the offer, though..just do it on your terms.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    This reminds me a bit of one of the regulars I have, though it's not exactly the same situation.

    He's one of the regular I've had for the longest, he's extremely loyal, at least when he comes to my club he never buy dances from anybody else. Since the first time we met he tipped extremely well (50%) and whenever he came to see me after that he gives the same amount. He's respectful, doesn't try to push my boundaries, never asked for my personal infos, not even my real name. He understands this is business. He did try to ask to see me OTC once, I said I wasn't very comfortable and he never insisted or brought the subject back again.

    He's wealthy, the owner of an accounting firm. The only time we talked about something more ''personal'' was two years after he's been coming to see me almost every week (now he comes every 2-3 weeks but anyway). I never asked about his profession until long after we've known each other, I usually do not ask unless the customer mentions it himself. That's when he told me what he does in life, and said if I ever need informations or help with something tax related, to not hesitate to contact him and he will be glad to help. His expertise is small to medium businesses... That was last year and I actually desperately needed to find a new accountant.

    I thanked him and I was grateful but I actually asked a co-worker to refer me to someone instead... Even though that regular was one of my best customer and I am pretty sure he's very knowledgeable in his field. He's working all the time and by how much he tips me even though he came so frequently to see me, I don't doubt he's making good money... But I just had the feeling it wouldn't be a great idea to mix work and my personal life no matter how much I appreciate him.... I *trust* him, but I still wasn't comfortable with the idea of giving him my personal infos.

    (The fact that he comes less often now has nothing to do with this, in case you are wondering . )

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    It's a tough judgment call but on balance you do NOT have to give him your personal info. Here's why :

    1. With that info he moves from being a custie to a close personal friend. Is that what you want ?
    2. If he really cares about you on a platonic level and he just wants to see you invest some money wisely then he can invest it for you under his name and periodically show you what "your investment " is doing OR he can give you the $5000 and you can show him your monthly statement with your personal info redacted.
    3. He can give you investment advice and then you can go to your own broker / investment advisor.
    4. Ariel posted a good idea (supra). You go to the broker together and then you either hand over your personal info written down or ask your friend to excuse you and the broker and then give the necessary personal info. Obviously you should explain everything to your friend beforehand so that he knows how much you appreciate what he is doing but that you are very strict about keeping your personal info personal.
    5. Remember that once you have given this guy your personal info you can't snatch it back. It seems like he just wants to be nice to you but you should be able to keep up "the wall " if you want to.

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    UPDATE: I am meeting with him and his broker early next week so I can give the broker my personal info.

    When I saw him yesterday, he actually brought up that option right away before I even had a chance to, and it was kind of a relief for me. It just made the whole situation more simple.
    Hes a very private person, and I think he fully understands my reasons for being a little guarded.

    Thanks everyone, for the great advice!!

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Perfect!!

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    Default Re: Customer wants to help me invest

    Sniffle. I love happy endings.

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