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Thread: I hate men now

  1. #1
    Veteran Member starlily's Avatar
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    Skull I hate men now

    I don't like to wallow in my problems but I want some support.

    I used to work in a Manhattan club and some seriously not good stuff went down there in the VIP, multiple times. You can read my review of Sapphire if you're curious. I kept telling myself that the things that were happening to me were no big deal and that I ought to be able to just get over them, and that they were happening because I was using the wrong hustling techniques or didn't do the right things once I got to the VIP, or something. So I kept going back there and these things kept happening, over and over. I thought I'd eventually improve. Now I feel dumb for not quitting sooner.

    I took a couple of weeks off after that. I'm stripping elsewhere now, but once a week or less. I can't hustle any more. I hate every customer I see.

    Street harassment happens every time I leave my apartment, usually three or four times per trip. Guys will look at me through half-closed eyes and suck air in through their teeth like I'm sucking their dick. I get informed of a lot of things about my body and my looks. Lots of stuff like that happens. I'm sure you all know how it is, being attractive women who presumably walk around in populated areas.

    Some guy at the club started rubbing my crotch through my panties last night. I said, "You can't do that." He said, "Why not?" I said, "Because I don't want you to." He looked shocked. Like... dancers aren't just walking sex dolls? We actually have wants?

    The recurring theme seems to be that no matter where I go, men treat me like I'm theirs. Except when I'm with my boyfriend. They're respectful then. They wouldn't want to stake a claim on something someone else already owns.

    I'm so tired of being touched and smirked at and catcalled like my body was made specifically for them to enjoy. I hate them all so much.

    I ordered a hijab (head scarf traditionally worn by Muslim women) to wear in public for when I'm not out with my bf. From now on those cunts on the street don't get to see my beautiful hair, my neck or my shoulders or the shape of my body or anything else, because it's MY body, and I don't owe it to them, and they certainly don't deserve the satisfaction of seeing it at all after the way they treat me.

    Can't wait to be able to quit stripping. I'm especially bitter about that, since stripping was awesome until the NYC cocksuckers ruined it for me.


    p.s., I love my boyfriend a lot and he's pretty much kept my faith in humanity going throughout all of this. He's so sweet. I don't even think he knows the vast importance of everything he's done for me.


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    Veteran Member BANHammerGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    I'm sorry it's been so bad for you. I've been tempted to get a hijab as well. All I can say is to get your bitch face/voice working even more loudly. I'm currently living in a city where guys are so ghetto that they stare at me while I'm with my boyfriend and they're with their girlfriends, and I have to loudly tell them to fuck off or learn to be respectful.
    I'm actually looking to move to the city I lived in a few months ago which is about forty minutes from my boyfriend but I'll feel a lot better moving around at night.

    I would say that if you used to love stripping and you don't want to give it up-- go travel. There's plenty of places where men are more respectful, even in strip clubs. BUT, I also feel that men are men and disrespectful dogs for the most part. Barring being sheltered at home...I don't want to give up my life. But nowadays I'm almost always armed when I'm out and about. I feel a lot more comfortable with a large switchknife in my jean pocket and a gun in my car.

    *stolen from AutumnAmbrosia*

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    Senior Member Bone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Don't judge us men by what happens in a SC, the large majority don't go to them to begin with. Seems the problems you have are all about location and the environment you are working in. You seem to be attracting a certain type of customer if this keeps happening to you. Maybe change the way you perform? And I would say Goddess is correct, time to travel. Also time to meet with men outside of the SC areas if you want to get a better impression.

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    Default Re: I hate men now

    I'm not even going to try to defend the male gender as I hate most of them as well but like others have said consider a new environment for a bit.

    As far as the guy molesting you, I would suggest a quick knee to his nuts. Fuck that guy.

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    Veteran Member SavannahLynnn's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    I have literally questioned this topic almost daily since I started camming.


    "We must try not to sink beneath out anguish, but battle on." - Albus Dumbledore


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  9. #6
    Veteran Member starlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bone View Post
    You seem to be attracting a certain type of customer if this keeps happening to you. Maybe change the way you perform?
    Yes, the way I wiggle and twirl around the pole is different than the way every other stripper does it, so much so that I attract a different type of man than they do. Everyone knows it's the girl's responsibility to attract only the right kind of man. Otherwise she's kinda just asking for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bone View Post
    Also time to meet with men outside of the SC areas if you want to get a better impression.
    HAAAaaaaa, did you really read my post and think "What's upsetting her most is that she misses having a good attitude towards men"?
    And just sweep that part about me loving my boyfriend and having faith in humanity under the rug, it's not important.

    If I had to guess, you saw the title of my thread, skimmed my post without paying attention to most of it, and then posted a rebuttal that you decorated to look like advice.


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    Default Re: I hate men now

    I haven't done stripping for many reasons, but I guess most guys who go to those places would expect extras, and being under the influence of alcohol won't help with their behaviour either. Then even if you offer some sort of "extras", they will expect even more and will try to push the limits further. I see it in escorting and camming all the time. My explanation why that happens is simple - when a woman does sexual work, they seem to take her for granted, they don't find it necessary to try and make a good impression on her which they would probably do if the woman were a vanilla job worker, just show their true colours immmediately. As for the men who stare in the street and act stupid - that happens everywhere I guess, it's almost inevitable. I like to go out dressed very smart so they feel intimidated to try and talk to me, or approach me in any way.

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    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Quote Originally Posted by Bone View Post
    Don't judge us men by what happens in a SC, the large majority don't go to them to begin with. Seems the problems you have are all about location and the environment you are working in. You seem to be attracting a certain type of customer if this keeps happening to you. Maybe change the way you perform? And I would say Goddess is correct, time to travel. Also time to meet with men outside of the SC areas if you want to get a better impression.
    Bone, she's venting. Don't personalize it.

    Also, I doubt that her performance or actions are the cause of her issues. The somewhat unspoken reality about a number of Manhattan clubs (not just Sapphire) is that the guys tend to be aggressive and have high expectations when they go into those backrooms, due in no small part to the high price tag associated with them. There is no shortage of girls willing to lend at least lend a helping hand and the VIP managers are often complicit in these arrangements as they are getting their pockets padded, often from both the customers and the dancers that they hook up.

    Star came to realize the full extent of this in her club and it caused her to be angry and frustrated. She is not the first girl, nor will she be the last, who has these reactions to the realities of working in some of the Manhattan clubs. I am sure that star understands her other career and life options and will act in her own best interest.

    Girls will often vent like this around here - that is part of what this place is for. IMHO it is best for guys like us to stay out of the way when it is happening, at least up here in pink. LOL.
    Last edited by rickdugan; 11-25-2013 at 01:53 PM. Reason: grammar


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    God/dess DonaDiabla's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Quote Originally Posted by Bone View Post
    Don't judge us men by what happens in a SC, the large majority don't go to them to begin with. Seems the problems you have are all about location and the environment you are working in. You seem to be attracting a certain type of customer if this keeps happening to you. Maybe change the way you perform? And I would say Goddess is correct, time to travel. Also time to meet with men outside of the SC areas if you want to get a better impression.
    She is just venting her feelings on this subject of nasty men making comments. Do not take so personal, Bone

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    God/dess simone87's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    sucks, but even when i go out with sloppy pjs and a huge shirt i get that. SOME men are just pigs, no matter how you dress. it infuriates me to the core of my being that some women have to cover every part of their body in attempts to fend off disgusting passes and cat-calls! we should be able to dress, act, go, and do what we want without them thinking we are "asking for it". makes me SO angry! girls are taught to not stay out late, keep your legs closed, cover up, etc to fend it off without getting down to the REAL issue..people need to be teaching their sons to respect women no matter how they are dressed, in any situation. GRR!! i have a son, and that is one of the number 1 things i plan on instilling in him.
    i understand where you are coming from..shocks me when i see some cute, polite, conservative looking dude who then decides its perfectly ok to grab my pussy out back and looked shocked when i rip his hand away. rape culture is prevalent, and i really don't think men are "pigs" naturally. they are taught " oh boys will be boys" " men are pigs, nothing you can do" and given a free pass. double GRR


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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Unfortunately this is a problem that most attractive women face whether they are dancers or not. I think the younger men seem to think they have the right to do this because of the society we live in. My younger friends and relatives deal with this all the time. I do too, but in my case many men of my age will flirt but be more respectful. Oh sure I get the cat calls and all of that but also have had random men come up to me and talk to me (though I know they are thinking the same as someone who says nasty things). I don't have an answer but will say that many men are like this but not all. My dad would never do this, nor would my brother or many of the men friends I have.

    I could tell you to ignore it, but that's easier said than done. I usually got nasty and told these assholes off.

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    At first I loved working in Manhattan, but then it got slow and I found out the only way to make $$ in my club was to deal with abusive men and con customers and staff alike into thinking I was down! I finally quit my last club after I did a VIP with a dirty cop who immediately tipped the host $900 for the hour. Seemed like rape hush money to me. Somehow I talked him into keeping it in his pants, but that was the most stressful hour of my life. Nobody would have heard me screaming in that room with the closed door! I had to take three months off dancing entirely to deal with the psychological damage. I'm at a cleaner club now but my shitty experiences in this city have had a long lasting effect on my outlook.. I used to have fun dancing, now it mostly stresses me out. And don't even get me started on the street harassment here compared to other cities. Let us know how if the hijab helps.

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    Default Re: I hate men now

    I don't blame you at all, some nights the customers seem like a totally different species of animal than I am.

    You may or may not find it amusing to hear that some of the guys in the industry get misogynistic from dealing with the many female counterparts. But that's a whole different ballgame.

    I am really glad to hear you have a good man at home.
    Last edited by Djoser; 11-26-2013 at 02:06 AM.
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Not much to add, but I feel the exact same way.

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    Veteran Member starlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol1337a View Post
    Let us know how if the hijab helps.
    I definitely will! I reaaally hope it works. God it would be nice to just have a pleasant walk outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    You may or may not find it amusing to hear that some of the guys in the industry get misogynistic from dealing with the many female counterparts.
    Actually, I feel that way about females a lot too. High school taught me that girls can be pretty mean, but stripping taught me that they can be downright evil. More of my friends are dudes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    I am really glad to hear you have a good man at home.
    Thank you. There is no bigger contrast between any two things ever than there is between those harassers and my boyfriend. I also talked about him because, obviously, I don't hate ALL men and didn't want any guys reading this to think I hated them automatically just for having wieners. It's just that every time I pass a guy on the street I bristle until I've gone past him because I'm expecting him to give me trouble. Same thing in the club- I've learned it's not good to trust any customer until they've earned it, 'cause you don't know what they might try and pull, and as a consequence I often look at the crowd and think BAHHH

    Thanks to everyone who replied/replies in the future. I read all of them and they mean a lot. I really needed people who could relate to my experiences, which no one I know irl really can, just to vent to and make me feel sane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoveve View Post
    I hate this too, I feel like you can't win! I actually feel like the shittier I look when I go out the more likely I am to get harrassed because it makes me seem more approachable and attainable, more guys think they have a chance.
    Thats exactly what it is.

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  27. #17
    Moderator Aurora_Sunset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlily View Post
    It's just that every time I pass a guy on the street I bristle until I've gone past him because I'm expecting him to give me trouble. Same thing in the club- I've learned it's not good to trust any customer until they've earned it, 'cause you don't know what they might try and pull, and as a consequence I often look at the crowd and think BAHHH .
    I don't mean this is in "your fault" way at all, but this honestly might have something to do with the increase in shitty behavior you've seen. You are expecting trouble or a shitty customer, so you give out a certain vibe. People can sense this sort of thing, and it's probably going to be the nasty, harassing guys who sense it as "weakness" or that they can "get to you" that are going to be drawn to it. Men are annoyingly more likely to keep harassing and cat-calling the girl who looks upset by it, because the entire point of that sort of jackass behavior is get a rise out of you and make you uncomfortable. If they can sense that it will, they will pounce all over it.

    Maybe try developing a more "who cares about those losers" attitude rather than a defensive "don't look at me attitude." When guys see that you are confident, don't care about their bullshit, and aren't gonna be bothered by it, they tend to not mess you with you or get bored easily if they try and don't get the uncomfortable reaction that they want. Or, you will eventually decide you dgaf and not even really hear or be bothered by them anymore. I swear, I have such a mindset of "psh, no one's ever mean to my face" that most of the time when someone does say something shitty within earshot, I literally don't even hear them. I've probably avoided a dozen fights just because I seriously wasn't paying attention to someone being shitty to me, and only heard about it later from a friend who is all like "I can't believe you didn't get mad when they said that!" And I'm like "Wait, bitch said what!?"

    Just don't let them get to you, sweetie. That's what they want, and jerks like that don't deserve to cause you this much pain.
    Don't try to win over the haters. You are not the Jerk Whisperer.

    Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.


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    Veteran Member starlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_Sunset View Post
    You are expecting trouble or a shitty customer, so you give out a certain vibe. People can sense this sort of thing, and it's probably going to be the nasty, harassing guys who sense it as "weakness" or that they can "get to you" that are going to be drawn to it. Men are annoyingly more likely to keep harassing and cat-calling the girl who looks upset by it, because the entire point of that sort of jackass behavior is get a rise out of you and make you uncomfortable. If they can sense that it will, they will pounce all over it.

    Maybe try developing a more "who cares about those losers" attitude rather than a defensive "don't look at me attitude." When guys see that you are confident, don't care about their bullshit, and aren't gonna be bothered by it, they tend to not mess you with you or get bored easily if they try and don't get the uncomfortable reaction that they want.
    You're right that they can smell weakness, but I feel that it's more of a vulnerable, "he's going to hurrrrt meee" thing that abusive guys go for, whereas if I give off any vibe at all it's probably a cruel and jaded one, since that's how I feel. I should be attracting customers that are into being smacked around and called a dog if that's the case.

    But I really think that most of these dickweed guys see an attractive girl and in their minds she's robotic walking pleasure meat made just for them. That's why they think it's ok to stare and hit on us and say gross things... they're constantly angling for and expecting some sort of sexual exchange, because they think they deserve that from us- and worse, they often act like we've already given them some degree of sexual satisfaction and whether we wanted to or not doesn't even occur to them. It's fuckin' gross. I hate that sense of entitlement the most. The thing I hate second-most is their sheer stupidity. I have always hated morons and the fact that some of these guys are surprised when I tell them off, and that they previously had never even considered that they were being offensive, is a clear indicator that they are quite powerful morons.

    But yeah, this didn't just start one day when I was feeling bad; it started when I moved to the city and began working the clubs here. The culture in NY is super permissive of using people. Combine that with the general worldview that women are objects, and no wonder so many guys here are acting in a way that makes me want to barf and shove their face in it until they drown.

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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Totally! Just take a look at who our wealthiest customers are.

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    I'm always torn on this.

    One part of me agrees with you completely. I recently got hollared at by what was probably highschool boys when I walked past their car and could only roll my eyes at them with that, "really...." look on my face. I've been grabbed and kissed out of nowhere in regular bars by guys i never even looked at, had hands up my skirt, ass grabbed etc. They just laugh if you confront them and keep hitting on you.

    On the flip side I get doors held for me everywhere I go, free drinks at every bar, taken out to eat on his dime, favors and extra help from the guys I meet that they wouldn't do for another man, forgiveness for mistakes, etc.

    It's one of those you kinda take the good with the bad. The only thing worse than being hollared at would be not getting hollared at, or even worse teased for being ugly.

    Im not excusing bad behavior. But I wouldn't want to walk in the heels of the girl who has the door close on her face because she's not attractive enough to warrant the extra 5 seconds of his time to hold it open. I still think in the grand scheme of things the perks out weigh the cons.

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    Default Re: I hate men now

    There is no amount of free dinners or drinks that is worth the threat of rape to me.


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    God/dess lestat1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_Sunset View Post
    I don't mean this is in "your fault" way at all, but this honestly might have something to do with the increase in shitty behavior you've seen. You are expecting trouble or a shitty customer, so you give out a certain vibe. People can sense this sort of thing, and it's probably going to be the nasty, harassing guys who sense it as "weakness" or that they can "get to you" that are going to be drawn to it. Men are annoyingly more likely to keep harassing and cat-calling the girl who looks upset by it, because the entire point of that sort of jackass behavior is get a rise out of you and make you uncomfortable. If they can sense that it will, they will pounce all over it.

    Maybe try developing a more "who cares about those losers" attitude rather than a defensive "don't look at me attitude." When guys see that you are confident, don't care about their bullshit, and aren't gonna be bothered by it, they tend to not mess you with you or get bored easily if they try and don't get the uncomfortable reaction that they want. Or, you will eventually decide you dgaf and not even really hear or be bothered by them anymore. I swear, I have such a mindset of "psh, no one's ever mean to my face" that most of the time when someone does say something shitty within earshot, I literally don't even hear them. I've probably avoided a dozen fights just because I seriously wasn't paying attention to someone being shitty to me, and only heard about it later from a friend who is all like "I can't believe you didn't get mad when they said that!" And I'm like "Wait, bitch said what!?"

    Just don't let them get to you, sweetie. That's what they want, and jerks like that don't deserve to cause you this much pain.
    Thank you for posting this. I've been trying all day to come up with a "your perception shapes you reality" type post that wasn't victim blaming and didn't sound defensive (coming from a dude). Yours was better than anything I came up with so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Starlily, Sapphire is one of the dirtiest clubs to work at right now. I'm not surprised you went through what you went through and yes, the hosts are known for that (I read your review). I suggest you try somewhere else.

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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Oh if it was a rougher club hell yeah. I worked a couple of those and it was very hard on those women. Your reaction is natural under these kinds of circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_Sunset View Post
    ...because the entire point of that sort of jackass behavior is get a rise out of you and make you uncomfortable. If they can sense that it will, they will pounce all over it.

    Maybe try developing a more "who cares about those losers" attitude rather than a defensive "don't look at me attitude." When guys see that you are confident, don't care about their bullshit, and aren't gonna be bothered by it, they tend to not mess you with you or get bored easily...

    ...jerks like that don't deserve to cause you this much pain.
    This is great
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  40. #25
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    Default Re: I hate men now

    Well it's not like I'm inwardly whimpering and worried about these big bad men every time they cross my path. I just think they're absolute scum and I'd be cool with it if they died. Usually I'm staring ahead blankly with my signature blank stare.

    Men don't just harass women who send off "victim vibes." I wouldn't even say a majority of men pick their target based on that. I just think they do it because they think women in general are up for grabs by virtue of being a woman.

    I know you all are saying stuff like "Not to victim blame, BUT" and I know you're just trying to help, but it is kind of starting to be... not so cool?... that so many people seem to think I'm doing something to bring this upon myself. I can promise you, I am not.

    It's just something they do because society says it's cool to objectify. That's it. They don't look to harass me because of some personality flaw I have. It probably never even crosses their mind that I have a personality.

    Or... maybe you guys saying it's me are right, but I would stake my life on the fact that you're wrong. I'm the one who's been in all my particular situations and it just does not feel like anything other than my physical appearance comes into play. I'll know the answer when I start wearing the head covering! If it really is my personality, they should still be able to detect it and will still give me problems, but if it's my sex appeal, covering my hair with a nunlike headdress should eliminate a lot of harassment.

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