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Thread: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

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    Default How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Just curious, but the last couple times my friend and I have hit the club and one of them brought up shacking up back at the hotel, whatever, instead of dismissing it outright (as she probably wants to do) I've noticed more and more girls say, "sure but lets go to a private room first" It's hit or miss, I've been around enough, I know the deal so I don't even bother asking any more. but I was just curious are more and more women using this line of hustle, ie agreeing to the after meetup, but only after they hit the private room, vip, whatever

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    I've heard girls say that just to get your money, but there are girls who will go out of the club. If they're smart they need to confirm that you actually do have cash and aren't pulling their leg. Normally, that can be proved my private rooms.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    ^ I agree with Momo, sometimes a guy can also give of a creepy vibe the more you get to know him to- in which case a girl might change her mind.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    I've heard this line used before, along with "I'll give you my number-after we've had fun together in the VIP/private room" etc etc.

    It's not necessarily a common hustle, but it's a way to guarantee the customer's business (if the customer is looking specifically for OTC/P4P and the dancer does not offer this, then her turning down his proposition is going to end her opportunity of making money for him ITC). It's a way of "dodging" the subject, without saying an outright no-a firm no would end any chance of that particular customer spending money on her. Alternatively, like MomoMania said, it would be a way for a dancer who does work after hours or solicit to confirm that not only does the customer have money, but he's willing to spend it on her.
    Last edited by OliveJardin; 12-08-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Unless it's Jason Momoa I tell them there is not enough money or chloroform in the world to make me do it. Never know who it is or how your words can bite you in the ass. I have friends fighting solicitation charges because of this.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Unless it's Jason Momoa I tell them there is not enough money or chloroform in the world to make me do it. Never know who it is or how your words can bite you in the ass. I have friends fighting solicitation charges because of this.
    Really? Cops are that bored they go into clubs and try and get women on solicitation that way? Plus I always thought you had to make it clear it's $$ for sex to be pinched that way. If you just say "I'll come over, but after VIP" it just seems a way to not say no, and at least have the potential of making some dough.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaskmatai View Post
    Really? Cops are that bored they go into clubs and try and get women on solicitation that way? Plus I always thought you had to make it clear it's $$ for sex to be pinched that way. If you just say "I'll come over, but after VIP" it just seems a way to not say no, and at least have the potential of making some dough.
    So you've never heard of LE infiltrating clubs to bust girls who might be soliciting sex? You need to understand that cops can and do lie on a regular basis when they are set-up on a sting. It doesn't matter if it's Back Page hookers they are after or strippers. If any sort of an offer is made the next thing that generally happens involves handcuffs and a trip downtown. Actual guilt or innocence doesn't really matter at that point. A mug shot is forever in the 21st century. Dancers understand this, especially those who work in urban areas where stings can happen on a regular basis.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaskmatai View Post
    Really? Cops are that bored they go into clubs and try and get women on solicitation that way? Plus I always thought you had to make it clear it's $$ for sex to be pinched that way. If you just say "I'll come over, but after VIP" it just seems a way to not say no, and at least have the potential of making some dough.
    That wording alone is enough to get a dancer busted. Whether she actually intends to follow thru is beside the point; the wording indicates intent & that gives LE probable cause for arrest.

    I have known girls who would name a price for OTC. One girl who I thought was particularly ballsy once asked for $800 w/ half of it up front; to the ATM they went, the guy drew out the $$ & she went & got dressed, sliding out the back door as she was done w/ her shift anyway. This was her intent all along, but that would not have mattered if she took the wrong guy up on his offer. She didn't do this very often, & fortunately nothing ever came of it, but I have seen girls do this, & leave the ATM area w/ sm shiny silver bracelets b/c the guy soliciting was a cop.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaskmatai View Post
    Really? Cops are that bored they go into clubs and try and get women on solicitation that way? Plus I always thought you had to make it clear it's $$ for sex to be pinched that way. If you just say "I'll come over, but after VIP" it just seems a way to not say no, and at least have the potential of making some dough.
    Yes, they do. Not because they're bored though-because they're cops. They try to stop illegal activity.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    its not just "meeting up" tho right? its agreeing to exchange sexual favors for money. something sexual + being paid has to be said to get you busted, was my understanding.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    its not just "meeting up" tho right? its agreeing to exchange sexual favors for money. something sexual + being paid has to be said to get you busted, was my understanding.
    That's what I think is stupid, is that he's paying for the VIP room in the club. Why they can arrest you for saying you might hang out with him after is beyond me, since they're not paying for that technically.

    But because of that possibility, no, I never have used this line because I am not willing to risk an undercover cop busting me.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Selina M View Post
    That's what I think is stupid, is that he's paying for the VIP room in the club. Why they can arrest you for saying you might hang out with him after is beyond me, since they're not paying for that technically.

    But because of that possibility, no, I never have used this line because I am not willing to risk an undercover cop busting me.
    Exactly, It's hard for me to believe simply saying, "sure let's have some fun after, but let's do VIP first" would be probable cause to justify a warrantless arrest on solicitation/prostitution. "have some fun" can be interpreted a million different ways, and even if it's sex, it's only criminal if it's clear $$ was intended to be exchanged. There are a lot of assumptions that are being tacked on. I saw an episode of COPS and the female undercover who was busting "Johns" had him specifically say, "ok so you're going to pay me right.. for sex.. right?"

    But I get not saying it to be on the fully safe side, but some girls have been saying it in LA anyway, just because they hear "let's go to my place after and have fun" so much.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    IME if the undercovers are there to begin w/, they are there for a reason. Either the club has developed a reputation or sm1 tipped them off. They don't just wander in off the street thinkin' "Hey, it's been a slow nite on the radio, let's hit up the local SC & see what kind of trouble the girls are stirring up!'

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aniela View Post
    IME if the undercovers are there to begin w/, they are there for a reason. Either the club has developed a reputation or sm1 tipped them off. They don't just wander in off the street thinkin' "Hey, it's been a slow nite on the radio, let's hit up the local SC & see what kind of trouble the girls are stirring up!'
    Exactly my point with the "cops are really that bored" comment, in big cities you'd figure they have more important things to tend to rather than to stroll into clubs and bust people for solicitation.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaskmatai View Post
    Exactly my point with the "cops are really that bored" comment, in big cities you'd figure they have more important things to tend to rather than to stroll into clubs and bust people for solicitation.
    You're doing a very good job of missing the point! Sometimes their job is to go to a strip club and look for strippers who are soliciting sex. That would come under the heading of one of those "better things" they have to do. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? No one is saying that a bored cop decides to do it randomly. Two clubs have been shut down in Providence since last summer and several dancers busted for soliciting. No one knew the cops were coming...other than the cops.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    It's hard for me to believe simply saying, "sure let's have some fun after, but let's do VIP first" would be probable cause to justify a warrantless arrest on solicitation/prostitution. "have some fun" can be interpreted a million different ways, and even if it's sex, it's only criminal if it's clear $$ was intended to be exchanged.
    This is probably not the best place to elaborate, so I'll keep it short.

    The key point to keep in mind is that, in the vast majority of cases, any 'busted' dancer is going to be arraigned before some local yokel 'part time' judge with minimal legal education. That judge has very probably presided over 100's of busts of 'classic' prostitutes, as well as 'strippers' ... and in the vast majority of cases those girls have A. actually been guilty, and B. tried to lie their asses off to beat the charge. Thus any busted dancer automatically faces a 'credibility' problem. And if there isn't any 'hard' evidence of the dancer's innocence ( i.e. a surveillance tape showing exactly what was and was NOT said and done just prior to the bust ), when it comes down to the word of a well respected local vice cop versus a 'stripper', guess who the local yokel judge is going to believe !!!

    If the busted dancer pleads innocent, the next step in the process is going to local trial ... where a jury consisting of housewives, civil servants, retirees etc. will be faced with the same word of a well respected local vice cop versus a 'stripper' claiming innocence. Guess who the jury is going to believe !!!

    You are correct, however, that at the 'appellate' level, judges who are not acquainted with the arresting officer, judges who actually have lots of legal education and experience, will finally consider legal 'niceties' such as the existence of sufficient probable cause for arrest and/or the actual evidence available to support a charge of soliciting prostitution. However, getting to this point is likely to cost the busted dancer $5,000+ out of her own pocket for legal fees to file the appeal AFTER she has first been convicted in a local court !!!

    So while there are lots of cases where the busted dancer is actually innocent by the letter of the law, there are extremely few cases where the busted dancer will choose to turn down a 'plea bargain' deal ( with legal fees and fines often paid by the clubowner ) and being able to return to work at the club the very next night, versus putting up the significant amounts of time and money to 'prove her innocence' via first going to a local trial, and then filing an appeal. I would also add that, unless the busted dancer has already made arrangements for ( and paid ) her own attorney to have the paperwork ready to immediately file an appeal, if she's found guilty at local trial she'll potentially wind up being a 'guest of the county' for a few days / weeks ... which, if nothing else, means lots of lost dancing income !!!

    Accepting a 'plea bargain' offer guarantees no jail time and no big legal fees, but also requires that the busted dancer enter a de-facto 'admission of guilt'. This can be a big deal later on, i.e. future straight job employers / state professional licensing agencies turning up a de-facto prostitution bust on the girl's permanent record. In some states, and in some circumstances, it's possible for a girl to hire an attorney after the fact to file a motion to have her permanent record 'expunged'. But this isn't 'free' and it isn't a 'sure thing' either.

    The bottom line here is that dancers need to keep in mind that even a vague verbal offer of sex ( later ) in exchange for any form of money ( now ) can be construed as soliciting prostitution. Thus in real world terms, a dancer offering a vague verbal offer versus actually performing sex acts inside or outside the club basically face the same legal risks and potential consequences in the absence of having $5,000+ available for the appeals process.

    Now for the true irony. Once a dancer has a ( de-facto or actual ) prostitution conviction on her permanent record, she basically has absolutely nothing additional to lose if a second or third prostitution charge winds up being added. Local gov'ts certainly don't want to absorb the costs of holding local trials, and especially don't want to absorb the costs of incarcerating a busted dancer. So there will ALWAYS be 'plea bargain' deals available involving zero jail time and a medium sized fine, in exchange for another ( de-facto ) admission of guilt but being able to return to the club the very next night. In fact, in some jurisdictions, bogus busts + plea bargains + fine money is an integral part of the local LE / court system 'budget', and local clubowners / dancers being busted and paying fines is just another 'cost of doing business'.
    Last edited by Melonie; 12-22-2013 at 05:28 AM.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    You're doing a very good job of missing the point! Sometimes their job is to go to a strip club and look for strippers who are soliciting sex. That would come under the heading of one of those "better things" they have to do. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? No one is saying that a bored cop decides to do it randomly. Two clubs have been shut down in Providence since last summer and several dancers busted for soliciting. No one knew the cops were coming...other than the cops.
    Actually, you just proved my point. Last I checked, Providence wasn't exactly a hotbed of criminal activity, hence the ability and focus on strippers soliciting, and even so, I'm sure the evidentiary points I made earlier would still stand, ie they'd need a clear indication of sex exchanged for money, so "lets go back and have some fun" I doubt would cross that threshold.

    It's hard to imagine in a city like New York and LA where murders, assault, robbery, arson and other more violent crime are abundant, that significant resources would be devoted to "look for strippers soliciting sex" "being bored" was hyperbole to mean, "they have lots of other things on their plate for whatever reason, political or otherwise, that is taking up their time"

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Really good post, of course, when you say "part time yokel judge" New York City and Los Angeles don't really come to mind. The only clubs I've been to are the "upper end" ones in city centers, so my experience is admittedly skewed. Also, at least on the episode of COPS I saw they had video footage (obviously, for the TV show) and a voice recorder, and the undercover cop repeatedly asked, "Money, for sex, right?"

    But you clearly have a lot of experience and knowledge so thanks for sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    This is probably not the best place to elaborate, so I'll keep it short.

    The key point to keep in mind is that, in the vast majority of cases, any 'busted' dancer is going to be arraigned before some local yokel 'part time' judge with minimal legal education. That judge has very probably presided over 100's of busts of 'classic' prostitutes, as well as 'strippers' ... and in the vast majority of cases those girls have A. actually been guilty, and B. tried to lie their asses off to beat the charge. Thus any busted dancer automatically faces a 'credibility' problem. And if there isn't any 'hard' evidence of the dancer's innocence ( i.e. a surveillance tape showing exactly what was and was NOT said and done just prior to the bust ), when it comes down to the word of a well respected local vice cop versus a 'stripper', guess who the local yokel judge is going to believe !!!

    If the busted dancer pleads innocent, the next step in the process is going to local trial ... where a jury consisting of housewives, civil servants, retirees etc. will be faced with the same word of a well respected local vice cop versus a 'stripper' claiming innocence. Guess who the jury is going to believe !!!

    You are correct, however, that at the 'appellate' level, judges who are not acquainted with the arresting officer, judges who actually have lots of legal education and experience, will finally consider legal 'niceties' such as the existence of sufficient probable cause for arrest and/or the actual evidence available to support a charge of soliciting prostitution. However, getting to this point is likely to cost the busted dancer $5,000+ out of her own pocket for legal fees to file the appeal AFTER she has first been convicted in a local court !!!

    So while there are lots of cases where the busted dancer is actually innocent by the letter of the law, there are extremely few cases where the busted dancer will choose to turn down a 'plea bargain' deal ( with legal fees and fines often paid by the clubowner ) and being able to return to work at the club the very next night, versus putting up the significant amounts of time and money to 'prove her innocence' via first going to a local trial, and then filing an appeal. I would also add that, unless the busted dancer has already made arrangements for ( and paid ) her own attorney to have the paperwork ready to immediately file an appeal, if she's found guilty at local trial she'll potentially wind up being a 'guest of the county' for a few days / weeks ... which, if nothing else, means lots of lost dancing income !!!

    Accepting a 'plea bargain' offer guarantees no jail time and no big legal fees, but also requires that the busted dancer enter a de-facto 'admission of guilt'. This can be a big deal later on, i.e. future straight job employers / state professional licensing agencies turning up a de-facto prostitution bust on the girl's permanent record. In some states, and in some circumstances, it's possible for a girl to hire an attorney after the fact to file a motion to have her permanent record 'expunged'. But this isn't 'free' and it isn't a 'sure thing' either.

    The bottom line here is that dancers need to keep in mind that even a vague verbal offer of sex ( later ) in exchange for any form of money ( now ) can be construed as soliciting prostitution. Thus in real world terms, a dancer offering a vague verbal offer versus actually performing sex acts inside or outside the club basically face the same legal risks and potential consequences in the absence of having $5,000+ available for the appeals process.

    Now for the true irony. Once a dancer has a ( de-facto or actual ) prostitution conviction on her permanent record, she basically has absolutely nothing additional to lose if a second or third prostitution charge winds up being added. Local gov'ts certainly don't want to absorb the costs of holding local trials, and especially don't want to absorb the costs of incarcerating a busted dancer. So there will ALWAYS be 'plea bargain' deals available involving zero jail time and a medium sized fine, in exchange for another ( de-facto ) admission of guilt but being able to return to the club the very next night. In fact, in some jurisdictions, bogus busts + plea bargains + fine money is an integral part of the local LE / court system 'budget', and local clubowners / dancers being busted and paying fines is just another 'cost of doing business'.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    good point melonie. so, if a cop wants to get nasty with you, it basically doesn't matter WHAT you say. in fact, you could be turning him down for sex and being a clean dancer and he could bust you..in my experience cops lie all the time. i think that they should have to provide hard evidence. at least wear a wire so the conversation is recorded instead of the he said she said shit. its ridiculous. glad my club isn't a hot spot for that sort of bullshit

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaskmatai View Post
    Actually, you just proved my point. Last I checked, Providence wasn't exactly a hotbed of criminal activity, hence the ability and focus on strippers soliciting, and even so, I'm sure the evidentiary points I made earlier would still stand, ie they'd need a clear indication of sex exchanged for money, so "lets go back and have some fun" I doubt would cross that threshold.

    It's hard to imagine in a city like New York and LA where murders, assault, robbery, arson and other more violent crime are abundant, that significant resources would be devoted to "look for strippers soliciting sex" "being bored" was hyperbole to mean, "they have lots of other things on their plate for whatever reason, political or otherwise, that is taking up their time"
    I don't see how I'm helping you prove anything other than the fact that you continue to assume that LE is too busy to raid strip clubs. That is an assumption that many dancers can not afford to make. New York and LA are not the only two cities in the country with strip clubs. There are hundreds of clubs and thousands of dancers all over the US who work in much less congested areas than those two cities. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority of dancers and strip clubs exist outside of New York City and Los Angeles. To keep using those two cites as a benchmark for what happens all over the rest of the US is pointless.
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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    I used to say "I have to get to know you before I will meet you OTC". In reality I never had any intention of doing this but didn't want to lose the money (especially if they were spending a lot of money). At one club a cop was a friend of the owner and would often let us in on when cops would be in to try to solicit. These nights I always said "sorry don't do that".

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaskmatai View Post
    Exactly my point with the "cops are really that bored" comment, in big cities you'd figure they have more important things to tend to rather than to stroll into clubs and bust people for solicitation.
    I share your incredulity. You would think that most police forces would have many better things to do than to go to strip clubs, which are often located in out of the way places anyway, and spend significant resources busting girls on misdemeanor solicitation charges. The reality, however, is that it happens in a number of places. Strip clubs are very easy target for politicians and police chiefs who wish to score a few points cleaning up the purported bad elements in town. Also, some places simply bring it upon themselves by letting things get too out of hand ITC.

    And, of course, working girls resist less than hardened criminals. IMHO every minute spent by these heroes could and should be spent in trying to find felons with outstanding warrants, cleaning drug dealers out of neighborhoods with kids, etc., etc. But again, it is what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomaskmatai View Post
    It's hard to imagine in a city like New York and LA where murders, assault, robbery, arson and other more violent crime are abundant, that significant resources would be devoted to "look for strippers soliciting sex" "being bored" was hyperbole to mean, "they have lots of other things on their plate for whatever reason, political or otherwise, that is taking up their time"
    New York clubs have been raided too. To my knowledge it has been a while since one has been specifically targeted solely for prostitution concerns, but it has happened and no doubt will again at some point in the future - most likely during some future mayoral election.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    This is pure gossip, but I heard that a couple dancers at Sapphire in NYC were busted for solicitation and drugs this summer.

    As far as OP's question goes, I've used lines similar to Kellydancer's on the main floor, like "We would have to get to know each other better before I see you outside so let's hang out in VIP." I never intend on following through, but in my mind there's a difference between making a false promise and dangling false hope. I'll admit to making false promises in one very specific situation though, but it's very uncomfortable for me. There have been times where a host comes into a private room to renew and the customer asks if I'll see him OTC if he gets more time. If I say "no" not only will I forfeit my own income, I'll forfeit the host's, and risk burning a bridge with a powerful employee. It's not necessarily a decision I stand by afterward, but "Of course I will sweetie!" is the only answer that smooths everything over in the moment and it always seems to roll off my tongue before I know it. I don't feel guilty about lying to the customer because he didn't consider the uncomfortable position he put me in, but I do worry about my safety and reputation at the club on the rare occasion it happens.

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    It's not gossip, it's true. ^

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    Default Re: How many use the "we'll meet up after, but lets do a VIP first" line?

    Yeah, when I worked at Sapphire the housemom kinda ranted about it and all the staff were like "The cops have made arrests here so don't prostitute." It was one of the things that suckered me into thinking it was a clean club. I fantasize about them getting shut down. They treat the girls nasty.

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