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Thread: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

  1. #26
    God/dess justanothercamgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    I am about to start The Picture of Dorian Grey. Has anyone seen any of his plays, or read the book?
    I've read the book and loved it. Very dark but very good.

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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Wait, it was Theodora who was the prostitute and showgirl (the story of the trained geese was funny), and Justinian didn't kill her--as well he shouldn't have since she saved his ass during those riots.

    I believe Fausta was killed for playing around with his son, who was also killed. Of course Constantine was allowed to play with whomever.

    And it was not a common method of execution either.

    I'm all for sparing children the sordid details. But when they grow up they ought to be able to handle the truth--that the great men and women of history were not so godlike after all, but actually quite human, with very human weaknesses and failings. I think this would aid greatly in helping people overcome their own failings and achieve better things than they might if they think their own foibles will hold them back.

    But in any case the discussion is fascinating.
    Djoser, Theodora was one of the greatest courtesans in the last past 1000 years. In fact, many of Roman's greatest Emperors had prostitute as their wives. http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...om-the-brothel

    However Fausta was killed for sin of adultery and getting knock up by her own stepson. During the time of Constantine, a common practice was to pour boiling lead into the mouths of adulteresses. I believe that he killed Fausta in this way because she got knock up by his beloved son also she commit incest as well. In addition, Fausta helped killed her own father and slept with many of her uncles. So her husband was at fault for casting his beloved first wife for a woman who would have sex with her own uncles for power.
    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....l/fam1633.html

    I do agree with you saying that people should find out that great men and women of history are not as wholesome as everyone paints them to be

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  4. #28
    Featured Member MellyMay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    It totally bums he out that Wilde is actually a creep. History is going to paint a lot of current day assholes in a positive light. Sigh.

    Reminds me of finding out Lewis Carroll is a pedo & "Alice in Wonderland" was never the same.
    mellymay.com

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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    ^ he was??? that bums me out

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    Featured Member MellyMay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    yeah. right? way to put a damper on something beloved by so many.

    "Children's writer Lewis Carroll was a 'seriously unmarried bachelor' who befriended pre-pubescent girls and told them ambiguous tales while taking their photographs..."
    from this source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...s-Carroll.html

    But I remember reading this in various places and they actually made an allusion to it when i toured his home.

    ETA: sorry to deviate from the topic. It just got me thinking of British writers. At least Dickens wasn't an a-hole? I hope?
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  9. #31
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    [QUOTE=MellyMay;2572825]yeah. right? way to put a damper on something beloved by so many.

    "Children's writer Lewis Carroll was a 'seriously unmarried bachelor' who befriended pre-pubescent girls and told them ambiguous tales while taking their photographs..."
    from this source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...s-Carroll.html

    But I remember reading this in various places and they actually made an allusion to it when i toured his home.


    Actually, MellyMay, here is some information about Dickens and his beliefs on racism, sexism, and everything.

    Claim: Charles Dickens was bigoted, full of hate, and derisive towards people who were not English, and toward their American cousins. Unfortunately, it is worse. Charles Dickens was a racist (this was not limited to English or their American cousins). That is not all. Dickens opposed the abolition of Slavery (Clapham sect of Evangelists and Society of Friends 1). Finally, sinking to the lowest level: Charles Dickens believed in using genocide (mass extermination of several groups of peoples, as the word "genocide" had not yet been coined).

    All these claims are based upon what Dickens himself wrote, not once but several times.

    There are those who refuse to believe what Dickens himself wrote on these subjects; since over a period of years Dickens presented his views differently, such that his views on any one subject might seem elusive to the reader, it is possible to find quotes supporting Dickens opinions that sound 'pro' one year, and 'con' the next. However, there is a problem: no matter how much Dickens apologists attempt to rewrite history, the fact remains that Dickens repeatedly expressed views that were bigoted, racist, pro-slavery and which favored genocide 2, 3.

    http://www.estherlederberg.com/EImag...20Dickens.html

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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    ^ that's really weird, considering dickens was a social reformist..he always wrote about children being abused and such. never would have thought that. i really like his work

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    Featured Member MellyMay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Oh JEEZUS. My whole literary world is crumbling.
    mellymay.com

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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    ^ that's really weird, considering dickens was a social reformist..he always wrote about children being abused and such. never would have thought that. i really like his work
    Dickens was a man of many different interests. He believe in Social reforming and stopping child abuse. However, he was very much racist and sexist as well Sorry, but I read some of his quotes about people outside of British empire

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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    My favorite Theodora story is about how she saved Justinian's ass (and arguably the Empire itself) during the Nika riots when he was ready to simply up & run the hell away, and she made him stay and deal with it. I am too lazy to verify it right now but I believe about 30,000 people were killed during that week long riot. Suffice it to say, much as I abhor her character, I certainly admire her spirit and will. She should have been 'The Great', not Justinian.

    Melly I am truly sorry this thread has ruined the literature for you, or at least to some extent. That was certainly not my purpose in starting the thread--but I confess I love the discussion. Maybe if you could regard the books (or stories or plays) as separate entities from the flawed people who created them?

    I have been pretty jaded for quite some time, only partly from 14 years working the clubs, including a couple that were probably worthy of the most decadent and depraved Roman Emperor lol. So it's easy for me to perform this mental trick & still enjoy say Edgar Allen Poe, and the like.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    No no, this is a great discussion! (I keep deviating from the topic but I started watching "The Following" which deals with a Poe-related cult)
    mellymay.com

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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by MellyMay View Post
    No no, this is a great discussion! (I keep deviating from the topic but I started watching "The Following" which deals with a Poe-related cult)
    i just finished watching that!! like a few days ago lol. i really love edgar allen poe, he's one of my all-time favorites. i don't feel that he would condone what joe carroll was doing but..maybe im wrong.

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  17. #38
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by MellyMay View Post
    No no, this is a great discussion! (I keep deviating from the topic but I started watching "The Following" which deals with a Poe-related cult)
    I don't mind this kind of threadjacking at all...actually I really love it.

    Haven't seen the Following but I will have to check it out.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
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    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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    Veteran Member Thymian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaDiabla View Post
    I believe that Wilde was a man of brilliance and wit. I have read his play "Salome" and I found it to be quite interesting.
    Have you seen the Ken Russell movie "Salome's Last Dance?" It presents the play in the context of a fictional story, and is really an appropriately off-kilter work that does justice to Wilde's words. It's worth a look if you are a fan of either Russell or Wilde.

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    Featured Member MellyMay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Both "Salome's Last Dance" and The Following are on Netflix streaming.
    mellymay.com

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    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Oh cool, thanks to both of you!
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  22. #42
    God/dess DonaDiabla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Quote Originally Posted by Thymian View Post
    Have you seen the Ken Russell movie "Salome's Last Dance?" It presents the play in the context of a fictional story, and is really an appropriately off-kilter work that does justice to Wilde's words. It's worth a look if you are a fan of either Russell or Wilde.
    I have seen that film and I find it quite interesting. However, my favorite film of Ken Russell is "Lair of the White Worm" (198 But I do agree that "Salome's Last Dance" is quite wonderful

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    Default Re: Oscar Wilde and the Picture of Dorian Grey

    Never knew that about Lewis Carroll or Charles Dickens but nothing surprises me. One has to remember that back in those days things were a but different than they are today. What would be considered offensive today back then was nothing. Many artists, such as writers and actors were racist or many other things deemed unacceptable today. Even in the last century many of the silent movies were very racist because that was accepted then. Even pedophilia was accepted in many circles many years ago and many artists had young lovers who were often not of age. Walt Whitman comes to mind. Definitely sick by today's standards.

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