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    Default Now and then

    I have been going to strip clubs for a while now (about 20 years). It seems like there are now fewer men visiting the clubs than there used to be. I was wondering if any long time dancers have noticed that their incomes are down from what they used to be, or if it is just my area or my imagination. And is having fewer guys in the club related to the higher occurrence in my area of girls offering so-called extras. I have heard more tales of friends who were offered/received extras and I have been offered them more lately myself. Is this tied to their being fewer guys or is this merely a club culture change from the 90s and early 2000s?

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    Default Re: Now and then

    The two biggest reasons are probably the internet, which reduces the number of customers and the bad economy, which keeps people out of the club but probably leads to more dancers being there. The offers are there because it has gotten harder and harder for dancers to bank over the last decade.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Now and then

    I've seen this claim about the internet siphoning off strip club customers, but I really don't understand it. I can't see how seeing a video of a girl -- even a live one -- can scratch the same itch as having her sitting next to you, and having the ability to touch her, smell her, do shots of tequila with her. Maybe that's just one of those things I'll never get.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    I think it's better than it was four/five years ago when the economy was reeeeally shit, but it's still difficult. Let me give you an example.

    There were like a million girls at my club (not really, but there were a lot-- a lot of girls coming in because the economy is rough and they need money) on Thursday and we didn't have a huge amount of customers (once again, because the economy is rough and no one has money). I think we had exactly twice as many customers that night as we had girls working, so 2 customers to every girl. That's tough, considering that probably at least 15% (possibly higher) of those customers didn't buy any dances and just came in to have a drink, watch the girls on stage and relax. Unless I get really lucky with a customer I have to dance with more than two people to make the income I need for that night (I ended up dancing with five customers that night and only did well because I did get lucky and one of them was a biiiiiiiig spender). So, not only am I competing with other girls to get a customer to dance with me over them, but I'm hustling dances out of somebody who has likely already danced with another girl. And in that situation I'm going to get a lot of "well I already got dances... yours are better? Really? Why? What do you do she can't? No be specific are you going to give me a hand job/blow job/fuck me?"

    When competition is fierce like that girls are gonna do extras. Either they get frustrated because they can't get people to spend money on them, they're desperate for money, or they're just plain godamn lazy, whatever-- they're gonna do extras. And, on the customers side, since they are likely struggling financially now more than in the past they don't have as much $ to throw down. They also have multiple girls coming up to them trying to sell them dances, and they can smell the desperation in the air. So, they're going to try to get as much as they can for as little as possible.

    And sadly the whole things just keeping spinning around and around! When girls do extras the customers begin to expect it and then they either demand extras from the other girls or just outright try shit in dances, and those girls feel pressured and they give in and blah blah... and all those girls who didn't get dances that night are going to come in the next night, clogging up the club and leading the situation to just repeat itself!

    Most girls at my club work a 5 or 4 day week unless they have another job or are totally set with regulars (there are some girls who only come in when they have a customer specifically coming into see them, but these are girls who've been working 7+ years). This idea that strippers only work 2 days a week... I personally think it's a false belief as of present.
    Last edited by audrey_k; 01-18-2014 at 10:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    Audrey, independent of the big trends, do you think January is usually a slow time (as is the month before April 15)? I think so, it's definitely slower in other areas of the industry in January, and I'm pretty sure I notice it in the club also. As a customer, I tend to try to make it more often during these slower times.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    ^I would agree January is slow. I think December/January is rough because of Christmas, the holidays, the cold, the new year, etc. Management at my club has stated that January is always slow for them multiple times in the past couple weeks and I would say our dance log agrees with that statement! I mean there was a night I worked this week where it was so slow I fell asleep in my club for 45 minutes. Granted me being able to fall asleep at work isn't that incredible, but the fact that my manager didn't yell at me to wake me up-- meaning there were absolutely no customers for 45 minutes, and I can guarantee that there weren't any for twenty minutes before that-- is pretty damn bad. And this wasn't like, a day shift or early in the evening... our rush is 12-4am and it was about 1:30 when I dozed off.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    I'm having trouble believing that the Internet is a big contributor. High speed Internet access has been pretty widespread since the turn of this century, as has online adult content, yet 2002 - 2007 was a very active period for clubs. I don't believe that cam girls are diverting serious money from strip clubs. Indeed, I strongly suspect that none but a small % of cam girls (at least those in the U.S.) can really make a decent living camming and I have heard long time cam girls also complain about things being worse than they were several years ago. Now I do believe that cam girls were instrumental in making peep show operators obsolete, but IMHO they serve a niche and i don't really think that they serve as a strong substitute for guys who like the in-person experiences that strip clubs offer.

    IMHO, the economy is still the biggest single issue. The so called recovery has been very uneven, benefiting certain industries and people much more than others. When the tide starts coming in for a broader % of the populations, I think that everyone will benefit, including dancers and cam girls.

    Anyway, just my

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    Default Re: Now and then

    I've been a strip club customer since the mid 80's and I've definitely seen an ebb and flow in the customer base several times over the years. I think the sole reason for the slower times are pretty much always based on the economy and the amount of disposable income available to potential customers. The internet may have attracted some business away from the strip clubs but, in my opinion, that's a cost saving measure for the guys more than a preference. I mean, honestly, porn is great and cam girls are fun as well but I'll take real live girl any day of the week and twice on Sundays if the money to enjoy a club visit is available. Strip clubs are not just about staring at naked women. They are a source of social interaction that porn and cam girls are not.
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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy View Post
    I have been going to strip clubs for a while now (about 20 years). It seems like there are now fewer men visiting the clubs than there used to be. I was wondering if any long time dancers have noticed that their incomes are down from what they used to be, or if it is just my area or my imagination. And is having fewer guys in the club related to the higher occurrence in my area of girls offering so-called extras. I have heard more tales of friends who were offered/received extras and I have been offered them more lately myself. Is this tied to their being fewer guys or is this merely a club culture change from the 90s and early 2000s?
    There are so many things that could be causing you to have this impression. Are you visiting the same strip clubs in the same city at the same time of day as you always have? Just like any bar or night club, the popular places 20 years ago are usually not the same as the popular places as today. Tastes, habits and demographics change.

    For instance, the club I'm working at now would never have hired me 20 years ago. I'm not pretty enough and (today) I am way too old for a top tier club to consider me. But the neighborhood it is located in has gone down hill quite a lot over the last 20 years. Now it is a neighborhood, blue collar place. If the OP had visited my club 20 years ago and returned in 2014, he would see that the place has dropped off considerably. This doesn't mean that all the strip clubs in my area are like this.

    Other factors such as the city becoming more permissive with liquor licensing for adult businesses creates more competition for a finite number of strip club customers. This would create the illusion that strip clubbing is less popular, but in reality there are just more options for the customers.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    While I wouldn't dispute that personal interaction in the.club is different and a lot better than internet entertainment, the fact remains that every guy sitting at home at.his monitor is one fewer guy than might be in the club on a given night. I'd also be willing to bet that most regulars who also partake in the internet would spend more time in the club if the internet weren.t an option. Nonetheless, the biggest hit must be the crappy economy.
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    Default Re: Now and then

    There is no denying the difference the poor economy has made in the clubs, as well as other businesses. But this could be a blessing in disguise, highlighting the changing landscape of adult entertainment. Instead of being the proverbial “frog in a pot of water”, people in the industry might notice this coming shift and “jump” to next thing rather than boil in familiar territory.
    The internet is partly to blame for this change but only in so far as it provides a big, cheap pipe for data, what has really changed is how people interact with each other. While older patrons, such as myself, prefer talking in person; texting, Skype, and Hangouts are the sort of day to day communication methods of the twenty-somethings (and younger), why wouldn't that translate to how they consume adult entertainment. It might be tough to get a lap dance this way, but what if you are in an area that does not allow contact. As that consumer, what does the commitment of driving someplace, paying a cover, and buying an overpriced beer, get you? Not much more than sitting at home in front of your computer, tablet, or even your smart TV.
    Things change, strip clubs are going the way of the Can-Can, and burlesque, at least in their current form. The economy is only accelerating the change, it is classic Darwinism, evolve or die.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by Gainful View Post
    It might be tough to get a lap dance this way, but what if you are in an area that does not allow contact. As that consumer, what does the commitment of driving someplace, paying a cover, and buying an overpriced beer, get you? Not much more than sitting at home in front of your computer, tablet, or even your smart TV.
    I don't understand... are you saying that lap dances should always become contact dances now??

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    Default Re: Now and then

    If a guy's only reason for going to a strip club was to get extras and get off I guess the proliferation of cheap or free sexual stimuli on the internet would have an effect on that type of customer. Of course, a lot of dancers would probably prefer that guy stay home in front of his computer screen anyway. I've been clubbing since way before private dances and contact existed so that part of the experience, though prevalent in my neck of the woods, is not the be-all end-all for me.

    Sure there are guys who used to go to clubs but prefer to sit at home interacting with their computers now. That being said, I'm never going to be convinced that it's a preference being driven by anything other than them not having the money to go to a club.
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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by audrey_k View Post
    I don't understand... are you saying that lap dances should always become contact dances now??
    If lap dances were nothing but air and dancers were never allowed to touch even when sitting/talking with them, then there would be very little reason to keep visiting clubs (in my opinion).
    It all comes down to what senses are being stimulated versus the cost of said stimulation. The above situation has three out of the five (visual, audio, and smell) at a cost of roughly 7 dollars per minute (plus tips) in a 20 dollar per dance club. In a situation like staying home and watching/chatting with a cam girl, you get two out of five senses (visual/audio) at a reduced cost of 3 to 6 dollars per minute (sometimes cheaper). Never mind the cost of driving to the club, paying cover charges, often mandatory drink buying, etc as the previous poster pointed out. Plus you are in the privacy of your room/home, so you can do things while your chatting on cam that you could not do at the club.
    Now, all that being said, that does not mean "contact" should entail full-on sexual contact. I do think a line needs to be drawn that needs to stay drawn and never crossed.
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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by audrey_k View Post
    I don't understand... are you saying that lap dances should always become contact dances now??
    Quote Originally Posted by FasaCorp View Post
    If lap dances were nothing but air and dancers were never allowed to touch even when sitting/talking with them, then there would be very little reason to keep visiting clubs (in my opinion).
    I think it's interesting that a segment of both dancers and customers seem blissfully unaware of what happens in different parts of the country...or even different parts of the same city or state. There are plenty of big cities where any sort of contact will get a dancer fired and/or a customer thrown out of the club. By the same token of course, there are lots of clubs where just about anything goes. I live in an interesting area in that Boston area clubs are traditionally no touch, the suburban clubs are in a state of flux and the clubs in Providence RI (about 50 miles away) are no holds barred some of the dirtiest in the country. Anyone in my area with a car can visit any number of clubs that cover all ranges of contact-or lack of it. There are plenty of guys who are happy to get a little one way touching by the dancer in a club around Boston and have never been to a club in RI where a girl will literally put your hand on her bare kitty if she thinks it will get you to buy another dance or do VIP.

    I'm not looking to turn this into an "extras" thread so please don't anybody go there but I think, on an international forum, folks need to understand that what they are used to isn't necessarily what someone else might be used to. This is something that I think a lot more dancers than customers understand.
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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by FasaCorp View Post
    If lap dances were nothing but air and dancers were never allowed to touch even when sitting/talking with them, then there would be very little reason to keep visiting clubs (in my opinion).
    It all comes down to what senses are being stimulated versus the cost of said stimulation. The above situation has three out of the five (visual, audio, and smell) at a cost of roughly 7 dollars per minute (plus tips) in a 20 dollar per dance club. In a situation like staying home and watching/chatting with a cam girl, you get two out of five senses (visual/audio) at a reduced cost of 3 to 6 dollars per minute (sometimes cheaper). Never mind the cost of driving to the club, paying cover charges, often mandatory drink buying, etc as the previous poster pointed out. Plus you are in the privacy of your room/home, so you can do things while your chatting on cam that you could not do at the club.
    Now, all that being said, that does not mean "contact" should entail full-on sexual contact. I do think a line needs to be drawn that needs to stay drawn and never crossed.
    I guess it depends what kind of contact we're talking about. In my experience a customer who is only interested in touching/licking/pinching my boobs is not a customer who goes to strip clubs on a regular basis or one who is going to spend a lot of money... he goes randomly when he's feeling horny, spends maybe $100-$200, possibly doesn't tip, and leaves.

    The customers who go on a regular basis and spend money (like want to do multiple VIPs) are customer who are going for a lot more than just getting to touch me... The best regular was a guy who no longer comes to my club and used to sometimes do 3 hours of VIP and ALL we would do was talk. I danced with two customers who have become my regulars in the last few weeks this weekend. These guys come in once a week and do over an hour VIP with me, so $1200+ in dances and they expect that I am going to sit with them and talk for at least 15 minutes before we go back there and that I remember exactly who they are, what they do, if they're married/single/have kids, what stresses them out (one guy's partner at his law firm just got cancer, another brother just married his ex-wife) and what they like in dances, whether that is touching my boobs or it's getting a back massage or some kink like me wearing purple nail polish and them stroking my toes. For most customers I am not willing to put in that much effort (it's emotionally and physically draining at times to deal with them because they want to have very intense conversations.. I have another customer who I've only danced with once but likes to spend 3+ hours talking about how lonely he is--- he is coming in again tonight, so hopefully he will become a regular as well!) but I know these customers will probably come in a dance with me, and spend $2000+ with tip, so I'm happy to do it. For a customer like this it's a lot more than just touching and they are NOT interested in extras. One of these customers won't even touch my boobs because he has this thing about how I'm a "nice, pure girl" and he doesn't want to "taint" me... However, I guess it just depends on what kind of hustle you have. I love to talk and spend more time focusing on engaging customers in conversation than engaging them in my body and that's just the way I've always been. Some girls I work with tell me I'm crazy to have these intense, personal conversations with customers and that they wouldn't be able to stand it.

    However, I personally am really sick of contact dances, of people thinking that my boobs are their play things and I'm really looking forward to moving to NO CONTACT dances in London!!!!
    Last edited by audrey_k; 01-19-2014 at 09:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I'm having trouble believing that the Internet is a big contributor. High speed Internet access has been pretty widespread since the turn of this century, as has online adult content, yet 2002 - 2007 was a very active period for clubs. I don't believe that cam girls are diverting serious money from strip clubs. Indeed, I strongly suspect that none but a small % of cam girls (at least those in the U.S.) can really make a decent living camming and I have heard long time cam girls also complain about things being worse than they were several years ago. Now I do believe that cam girls were instrumental in making peep show operators obsolete, but IMHO they serve a niche and i don't really think that they serve as a strong substitute for guys who like the in-person experiences that strip clubs offer.

    IMHO, the economy is still the biggest single issue. The so called recovery has been very uneven, benefiting certain industries and people much more than others. When the tide starts coming in for a broader % of the populations, I think that everyone will benefit, including dancers and cam girls.

    Anyway, just my
    Rick, I agree that internet isn't stealing existing customers away from the clubs. You, myself, and many others strongly prefer live human interaction to a sterile computer screen. Yet I think that Internet may be a contributor to a potential lack of new customers coming into club. "New" mainly being those south of 25-30 age bracket. That particular demographic has hardly known life without the internet. Those "youngsters" (according to some studies/accounts) are more likely to be heavy internet users compared to other generations, and thus more likely to lean on whatever is available on internet vs actual human interaction. If you're not getting the influx of new customers that you'd been getting several years prior, you won't grow, much less rebound. The SW dancer population probably has a better handle on club demographics. Interesting to see what happens in next 2-5 years.
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    Default Re: Now and then

    There are a lot of guys who are perfect potential custies but have just forgotten about clubs too. I date a lot of older guys and sometimes take them to clubs for fun since they haven't been to a club in years since being married or whatever and just kinda forgot about them. And later find out they went back on their own lol.

    I think sometimes all they remember is a club being dirty and forget it can just be fun too.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    Definitely the economy is the single biggest factor, there's just no way around it.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    I think it has to do with the economy and the loosening of rules. Years ago the economy was booming and many employers brought clients to clubs and spent a lot. In the blue collar clubs the guys were making a lot too. Then NAFTA happened and of course many companies tightened spending and all of that. The other issue has to do with how society has changed in the last few years. Back when I danced air dances were the norm and while there were always extras in club they were hidden. Now many dancers grew up in an era of anything goes and the celeb sex tape and all of that affects how the clubs worked.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    I think there are a bunch of problems driving down patronage.

    1) There are lots of clubs and often quite big clubs (i.e. take a lot of customers to support). There are just too many clubs.

    2) Attitudes towards prostitution and drugs have in fits and starts gotten slowly stricter through the years. On average nice clubs are dirtier than they were 20 years ago. But... the overwhelming majority of strip clubs are lower milage than their equivalents would have been 20 years ago. At the same time attitudes towards escorts are much looser and thus people who want an escort experience can get it more diretly and often at lower cost.

    3) All sorts of things have hurt the corporate environment. The biggest is strip clubs are no longer tax deductible and sexual harassment rules. The days of taking clients to a lunch that started at 12:00 and ended at 4:00 are over. I had to get drunk with a client for the first time in years.

    4) Better career options for women. It is easier now for a single mom to support her kids. Though there are still few jobs that pay what stripping pays especially for equivalent education.

    5) The falloff in government support for the arts and thus less women who have studied dance for many years driving down the quality of the stage shows.

    6) Camming I suspect provides a somewhat similar experience at a much lower per hour cost.

    7) Attitudes towards drinking and bars have gotten more negative. There are just less guys who drink.

    8 ) Too many corporate clubs. Obviously brands are nice. But independents help to keep the diversity up. Also the quality of management drops with corporate clubs often. Since smaller clubs can appeal to more niche tastes and do things special for regulars I think they help.

    etc...
    Last edited by knightwish; 02-06-2014 at 12:56 PM. Reason: added corporate

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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post

    5) The falloff in government support for the arts and thus less women who have studied dance for many years driving down the quality of the stage shows.
    I think this might be a stretch...

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    Default Re: Now and then

    ^ yup exactly. you think strip club customer actually go to clubs to enjoy the "fine arts" of dancing?? i mean c'mon

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    Default Re: Now and then

    Quote Originally Posted by simone87 View Post
    ^ yup exactly. you think strip club customer actually go to clubs to enjoy the "fine arts" of dancing?? i mean c'mon
    Heck yeah. When I go to Vegas where I can see amazing shows I love it. Its a different experience than your typical strip club but good erotic dancing is fun to watch. For me, ballet moves can be amazing sensual to watch. I love watching a women whose got a decade of ballet the way they move is just breathtaking. Far better then being flashed the snatch. With good dancing you usually get both, the dance draws your eyes into her body which makes the sexual aspects even more exciting. Very yummy.

    Heck I was at a club a few days ago, with a good pole where there were dancers who did mostly sexual shows and dancers who did impressive pole work. The impressive pole work dancers got much larger crowds. Men got up to sit around the stage and then left when dancers went back to just doing the typical hair role and flash. Go to TUSCL and read the reviews, many of the black strip clubs are getting huge plusses in reviews for how amazing the dancer's pole work is. And what they mean is fantastic gymnastics, not really anything sexual at all. So evidently urban black customers are willing to pick a club (and thus how crowded the strip club is) based on how good the dancers are at gymnastics.

    I think there may be something of a Tragedy of the Commons in that dancers today get paid for selling dances so individually a dancer doesn't make money on doing cool pole work. She's better off using her time on stage to sell LDs. Collectively though good pole work sells the club. It might even be worse in that a really good stage shows can entertaining enough that guys don't get bored of the stage and thus actually spend less. I understand that money is how women keep score at stripping. But that doesn't mean guys don't like erotic dancing, just that they aren't willing to pay the dancers much to see it.

    Which is my point. When women were employees of the club they cared about the door and/or drinks and the quality of dancing was much higher than the norm today.

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    Default Re: Now and then

    All I can say is that as a super stripper who's been dancing for years and works 6 nights a week very often, pole work does not make money.... I did gymnastics for 7 years, ballet for 2 and I was a cheerleader for 4, so I know how to dance and I can do a lot of cool pole work-- but I don't even bother doing it most of the time because it can COST me money. Guys want me to make eye contact with them, come up close to them and just do floor work. I was dancing on stage last weekend and this guy specifically came up to sit down in front of me-- he hadn't come up to the stage the whole time he was there and he'd been there for a few hours. But he just sat there and looked at me as I went through all my awesome pole work that I practice every fucking day... until I came up to him and then he threw about $60 at me over the rest of the 2nd song. Guys just don't care about pole work anymore! I feel like they don't even really care about stage shows to be honest, it's just background music. They're more focused on the girls walking around the room, coming to talk to them to sell LDs. I'm lucky if somebody tips me $10 on stage. And it sucks! Because I love to dance on stage, it's honestly my favorite part about working in a club.

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