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Thread: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

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    Default Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    A lot of my industry friends have been psyched about the opening of E11even in Miami. The advertising graphics were the best I have seen yet for a stripclub (OK not saying much considering the shitty ads for so many clubs, but this stuff was REALLY good), the interior and exterior design is excellent, as far as I can tell from the many pictures I've seen. Clearly they spent a hell of a lot on making it as good as it can be. And the auditions for DJs were very tough I heard.

    Then you have the new Vivid stripclub, 30,000 square feet on 2 1/2 acres and a fucking swimming pool coming soon, supposedly.

    Also in Miami you have Tootsies which is enormous, seems more like a mall than a stripclub almost--except of course there are a lot of half naked women running around.

    In principle I like the idea, and I also like--again in principle--the idea of fusing traditional nightclubs with the stripclubs somehow. Just so long as it is done in a way to ensure the dancers can still make good money. I.E. find a way to eliminate the confusion of some customers that it IS A STRIPCLUB, though there imight also be a dance club and/or lounge club in the same complex, or after 4 AM or whatever.


    But truthfully, when I go out, I usually much prefer a smaller, more comfortable club where I know the bartenders and waitstaff, and a fair number of the dancers.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    ^^^ a logical step to try and tap the 'top 10%' earners customer base.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    I haven't had the privilege of seeing one of these places. The girls at E11even were saying it was confusing for the customers with the civilian women running around, and were concerned it would impact their money.
    How is it set up inside? Are there separate rooms, any kind of distinction of "Here's the room where you pay for fantasy women" and "Here's the room where you hit on regular women" ?
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    The reviews in club chat don't look promising for this club. We already have enough couples and women coming in now a days that I just think it's a recipe for disaster. I have had luck in clubs that have after hours clubs. Like clubs that close at a certain time and open an after hours set up. Diamond in Denver has this, mens club in Raleigh and Hilton head. I'm sure there are more of I don't know of. I've had nights were since the clubs in Denver close at 2 were I went in after dark and made in a few hours what I made in the regular club because it was guys in for the conventions tat didn't get out until late and it was full of white collar guys. I also had nights were I went in and it was a waste( just high couples or guys in general on drugs) so it's always a crap shoot and you have to pay to go in so you never really know until your in there what you'll end up with.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    The strip club night club mash is a terrible idea. The club i was at started doing this with promoters bringing night club patrons (lots of female patrons too acting like girls gone wild) & the club has gone to shit. The manager is stressing out and he wonders why. Shit well, they're doing everything wrong for an upscale gentlemen's club.

    It's a strip club. Treat it as such. Not a place to sit and chill with your crew while not spending on dancers. Customers have come in not knowing it was a strip club and thought lap dances were free. Lol...fkn comical.

    Terrible terrible terrible. I fkn hate the idea with a passion.

    Also, porn star features drag in some weird fucks that just sit there. Taking up space, while spenders should be sitting there. Grrr... gtfo of here.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    ^Haha!

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    My fav is always fighting with the manager when he wants her to work Friday or Saturday. She says that on those nights the club fills up with people who gawk at the stage show, but don't buy dances and don't even tip. Clubs with this business pattern need to get real, and go back to paying the dancers for dancing on stage, like in the pre-table-dance days.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    As Minnow pointed out I'm pointing to these sorts of clubs in the African American community as bring back good stage shows and I think they are healthy for the white community as well.

    There are dance clubs where there were women on staff who dance with men for money. These were really popular in the 40-60s, but I suspect there are still some today. The basic gist is guy is paying a party girl for her time. I could see this working in a more modern club. Guy goes to the club, strikes out and then turns towards the professional who soothes the damaged ego. He gets to have a night of dancing, flirting and kissing; improves his club game for the next time, and what could have been a bad night turns into a great night.

    Also think about regular bars where escorts intermix with girls possibly looking to get picked up. There the pitch is pretty simple. You get a girl who is younger, prettier and less junk for $200-300 vs. having to sit all night, take your chances and then deal with possible after issues.

    To pick a totally different context where I've seen this work well... in BDSM parties there are often prodoms. Prodoms will often play at these clubs. They get a couple advantages
    1. They get marketing, being seen to play by prospective clients. They often are doing this sort of play with regular clients and this is a rewards for them (which builds loyalty).
    2. If they play with new people, they can get to meet and be tried out by prospective clients
    3. Some will do paid sessions at a reduced rate, they can often have a fairly good hourly earn because of the frequency example: 4.5 hrs worked during an 7 hour party.

    I'm not sure how applicable this is because BDSM clubs are exhibitionistic. In general in dance clubs and strip clubs people want to go private. You still have the same dynamic. Middle aged non-pro women into femdom don't like having to compete with prodoms but prodoms bring in lots of single middle aged men who are marriage / dating material for the middle aged women so while there is some competition there is also some very good support for each other's ecosystems. They kinda get each other's respective roles. They also can create gender balance because they just add more women to the mix which makes it more comfortable for the social play women than having a 3::1 ratio would be.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by ytqclys View Post
    My fav is always fighting with the manager when he wants her to work Friday or Saturday. She says that on those nights the club fills up with people who gawk at the stage show, but don't buy dances and don't even tip. Clubs with this business pattern need to get real, and go back to paying the dancers for dancing on stage, like in the pre-table-dance days.
    Really? I've met dancers who like day shift more than nights but I don't think I've ever met a dancer who likes say Tuesday night more than Friday night! That's a new one. The club has got to be way overbooking the number of women on Friday or Saturday night to create that effect. If you don't mind me asking which club?

    As far as newbies in a club who don't know what to do. Look every dancer would rather have experienced men who walk in the door planning to drop hundreds or (in select cities) thousands. Part of being in any service industry is training the customer base. My customers want me to work for free too. 12 guys buying 1.5 LDs an hour average and tipping 20% on top of that is a table spending $432/hr. If 2 dancers are working that table they are having a good time. Men love to buy dances for each other if the dancer creates the dynamic. That's not a spend rate that average guys can't maintain. If I remember there was a thread years back where Rebecca Avalon (who posts here still a bit) as part of her training course teaches dancers how to sell tables all night long rather easily.

    But if 5 dancers are working that table its only going to be a so-so night. While if 10 dancers are working that table it is going to suck. So if the club is just overbook weekends then there isn't much to be done unless your friend is way better than the other dancers.
    Last edited by knightwish; 02-18-2014 at 06:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Are you in the business? Your info is wayyy outdated! Most clubs have open schedules, hence you never know how many dancers will be there on any given night. I also sometimes( depending what club and city I'm in) prefer weekdays to weekends because weekends are a younger partier crowd mixed with lots of couples( young couples) and weekdays are more business clientele.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    Are you in the business?
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    Your info is wayyy outdated! Most clubs have open schedules, hence you never know how many dancers will be there on any given night.
    Most of the clubs I know of schedule dancers and use weekends as an inducement for bad shifts. Friday & Saturday night are when most of the dancers I know often make the majority or just short of their income for the entire week.

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    I also sometimes( depending what club and city I'm in) prefer weekdays to weekends because weekends are a younger partier crowd mixed with lots of couples( young couples) and weekdays are more business clientele.
    Well that's good. I've been in clubs where majority of the club was younger and poorer. If that's the case I can have a great time on weekends. But so far my local clubs aren't like that. I avoid clubs on weekend nights mostly but if the dancers start getting annoyed by the partiers that could create a best of all possible worlds where I get to pay for a reasonable price and the club is so busy that whatever we do doesn't draw attention.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Seem like at my fav's club, a dancer who isn't scheduled can just show up and work, so maybe that's part of the problem.

    There is another dancer at her club that she envies. This girl can earn big with the guys who want a fantasy relationship, without having to see them outside the club. I am the crude, easy type custy. She is very beautiful, she aims to please within her boundaries, and I'm a happy camper. She has the usual black dancer problem -- no $$$ from tight-assed white guys and self-hating black guys.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    http:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoS-MCnTPtQ

    Knightwish, you're looking more like the tail chasing dog in the above video link. Hey just because a Bentley or Lambo dealer does well in Hollywood or West Palm, does that mean that they should open shop in cities like Marquette MI, Salina KS, Charleston (WV or SC), or a multitude of other "flyover states" cities ? Several dancers have already expressed their wishes NOT to work in proposed club. Several blue posters have already said that they don't go to clubs for the stage show, yet you continue to beat the same drum over and over. I'm finding this thread and other CC thread to be as entertaining as watching the dog chase its own tail video.
    I'm right 96% of the time. I don't sweat the other 5% .......................

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    As usual.... what's going on here? Lol.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    As usual.... what's going on here? Lol.
    Hi Vyanka. Well mostly this is a discussion of superclubs which I think is healthy for the industry though the way dancers raise monty shifts somewhat, and probably the type of dancer shifts. Minnow is bringing another thread in customer corner about what drove down attendance. I listed 8 reasons and in the long discussion about one of them (drop in quality of dancing) the subject of (primarily black) superclubs has come up because these clubs emphasize dancing quality / large stage tips and VIP dancing over selling LDs. So it is somewhat related. The latest response doesn't make any sense but as far as I can make out Minnow is I think arguing he doesn't like these clubs therefore they don't exist and aren't successful.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post
    12 guys buying 1.5 LDs an hour average and tipping 20% on top of that is a table spending $432/hr. If 2 dancers are working that table they are having a good time. Men love to buy dances for each other if the dancer creates the dynamic. That's not a spend rate that average guys can't maintain. If I remember there was a thread years back where Rebecca Avalon (who posts here still a bit) as part of her training course teaches dancers who to sell tables all night long rather easily.

    But if 5 dancers are working that table its only going to be a so-so night. While if 10 dancers are working that table it is going to suck. So if the club is just overbook weekends then there isn't much to be done unless your friend is way better than the other dancers.
    I do so love strip club math...especially when it's being explained by a customer...

    It's good to see you waving the "Better stage dances will save the industry" flag through multiple threads and multiple sections of the site KW. I wouldn't want to hog all of the fun over in Customer Convo. You are still however glossing over the most important aspect of this: better stage dances and non dance-buying "customers" don't help a dancer's bottom line. You are never going to get groundswell of support for this silliness on a site populated by dancers and a core group of long-time customers who understand how a dancer earns a living.
    Last edited by yoda57us; 02-16-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    LOLLLL, cause flipping upside down on a pole is going to earn me 6 figures. Never selling lap dances is going to make me what I want a year..right. KW, please just stop with this ridiculous argument.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I do so love strip club math...especially when it's being explained by a customer...

    It's good to see you waving the "Better stage dances will save the industry" flag through multiple threads and multiple sections of the site KW. I wouldn't want to hog all of the fun over in Customer Convo. You are still however glossing over the most important aspect of this: better stage dances and non dance-buying "customers" don't help a dancer's bottom line. You are never going to get groundswell of support for this silliness on a site populated by dancers and a core group of long-time customers who understand how a dancer earns a living.
    Of course they make money.

    1) Dancers sell time. They hang out with guys or groups of guys between sets. The guys they are hanging out with are the ones who throw a stack ($100 in singles) or more on stage .
    2) Girls sell bottles. $300 bottle dancer makes $100. Back to the more old fashioned dancer make money selling drinks
    3) They sell VIP rooms and take a percentage of the room.

    LDs aren't the only way dancers can make money. This model is proven. This isn't some argument in theory about whether it might work, it does work in what is arguably the most successful strip club in the world.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by arielbriel View Post
    LOLLLL, cause flipping upside down on a pole is going to earn me 6 figures. Never selling lap dances is going to make me what I want a year..right. KW, please just stop with this ridiculous argument.
    Ariel I have no idea if the girls make $100-300k / year. If including dead times, they are averaging more like $60 / hr they probably are falling short of six figures or just barely crossing over. They don't have to hustle as hard, they don't have to deal with emotional needy nonsense of middle aged customers, they don't have to deal with heavy physical contact (at least outside of VIP). Heck I know a dancer whose main income stream is hustling pool. I suspect if she could was allowed to not sell LDs she'd jump at the chance. Grinding up against random guys in the LD room is something she hates about her job, though $20/4 min is pretty good money so she'll do it, but because she hates it she doesn't end up having to do much of it. Using her sexual whiles to make a guy lose his focus and beat his ass at pool and take his money that way is why she does her job.

    On the other hand I know dancers at go-go rama who are fine with tons of grinding they just hate the talking / hustling part of the job. Different people have different preferences in working conditions. That's life.

    And please don't judge my argument by Yoda's misleading statements. He's quoting me as saying things I've said precisely the opposite of.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post

    And please don't judge my argument by Yoda's misleading statements. He's quoting me as saying things I've said precisely the opposite of.
    Eeeeeasy there sonny boy, I haven't "QUOTED" you as saying anything other than your exact words via use of this site's quote feature. If you don't agree with my opinions or interpretations of what you are posting here that's fine but they are my opinions and I have a right to them same as you. Don't accuse me of misquoting you when all I am doing is disagreeing with you.
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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka View Post
    It's a strip club. Treat it as such. Not a place to sit and chill with your crew while not spending on dancers. Customers have come in not knowing it was a strip club and thought lap dances were free.
    This sums it up well. I have worked in a club with that mash-up nightclub theme and honestly I felt more like a go-go dancer if anything. It was as if the strippers were glorified go-go dancers, instead of being covered they were topless, and instead of being paid to work the strippers had to pay. I may as well be a go-go dancer if I want to work in a night club setting.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    Eeeeeasy there sonny boy, I haven't "QUOTED" you as saying anything other than your exact words via use of this site's quote feature. If you don't agree with my opinions or interpretations of what you are posting here that's fine but they are my opinions and I have a right to them same as you. Don't accuse me of misquoting you when all I am doing is disagreeing with you.
    Yoda I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, absolutely feel free. But no you aren't entitled to your own interpretations of my meaning. I do have a problem with you attributing to me opinions I've explicitly indicated I don't hold. If I say X is likely to increase Y and decrease Z, then a post saying I said that X would increase Z isn't disagreeing it is misrepresenting.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post
    Yoda I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, absolutely feel free.
    Cool, thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post
    But no you aren't entitled to your own interpretations of my meaning.
    Actually I am. That's called an opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post
    I do have a problem with you attributing to me opinions I've explicitly indicated I don't hold. If I say X is likely to increase Y and decrease Z, then a post saying I said that X would increase Z isn't disagreeing it is misrepresenting.
    Again, these are my responses to the words you are typing. If you want to blog about this stuff that's fine but if you post it on an open message board you have to accept the fact that people will contribute alternate opinions. In a perfect world the participants here read all of the posts and form their own opinion. It's not about word games KW. Opinion/interpretation/tomato/tomato blah blah blah! Say whatever you want but I get to do the same. So does everyone else.

    Sorry KW, I can't help it if no one seems to be agreeing with you here but your pontification on the subject at hand continues to almost completely ignore the concerns of the primary membership here on Stripper web-women who earn a living in strip clubs. If there was an opening in Washington DC for strip club owner's association lobbyist you would be a shoe-in for the gig but that's not the primary, secondary, or even tertiary focus of this site. To be blunt, you are basically prattling on to a group of dancers about how an enterprising faction of strip club owners have figured out a way to bring people into their clubs who don't spend money on dancers. To be fair I take no issue with your comments about dancers getting cuts of bottle sales, VIP sales or anything of that sort but selling dances is still the primary stock in trade for the majority of dancers in the vast majority of clubs all over the country. You can make all the claims you want about large tables full of men buying multiple dances from multiple dancers but if you actually read what dancers have been posting on this site for years that just doesn't ring true.

    Let's review: Dancers know what works for dancers. This is a site primarily for dancers.

    This doesn't mean that no one gets a differing opinion but it pretty much guarantees that differing opinions won't find a lot of support.

    The vast majority of dancers are still independent contractors and even those who are employees still derive most of their income from selling dances. Customers who spend money on dancers, not by way of kick-back incentives from the club but actual money going directly from the customer to the dancer, is what the dancing membership here is concerned about.
    Last edited by yoda57us; 02-17-2014 at 03:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post
    Of course they make money.

    1) Dancers sell time. They hang out with guys or groups of guys between sets. The guys they are hanging out with are the ones who throw a stack ($100 in singles) or more on stage .
    2) Girls sell bottles. $300 bottle dancer makes $100. Back to the more old fashioned dancer make money selling drinks
    3) They sell VIP rooms and take a percentage of the room.

    LDs aren't the only way dancers can make money. This model is proven. This isn't some argument in theory about whether it might work, it does work in what is arguably the most successful strip club in the world.
    Though my mothers husband and my sister whom I use to work with coin me" the dancer who doesn't do dances", I have to laugh at this. As a dancer who rarely goes on stage unless I have to( I'm not one of those girls who really makes anything from the stage because I don't go on it and I'm not the jump in the air into a split, hang upside down in a split from the ceiling anymore) so when I do and since I work in clubs that aren't stage centric I may make 20 bucks. I strive to do vip all night so I don't have to go on stage and I mostly can just talk and make money. Though most clubs across the U.S this is impossible every night, all night unfortunately. Also selling time. What planet are you from? Maybe if a guy isn't interested they may and you a 20 or you may get the occasional guy who doesn't want dances and just wants to talk who hands you a hundred every know and again but that's not common. There are also clubs that don't have vip ( I just worked in one) and had to do dances( if I wanted to make any money and stage on the nights there wasn't enough girls to skip me) they do have an upstairs area were it's 25 to go up and you try to sell blocks of time and I did a few times but it's not the norn since the club has 20 dances. You can make money here but 4-5 hours feels like 7 to me at any other club. Also please tell me this most successful club in the world where this model works so well I must know...LOL.

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    Default Re: Superclubs vs traditional stripclubs

    Quote Originally Posted by knightwish View Post
    Of course they make money.

    1) Dancers sell time. They hang out with guys or groups of guys between sets. The guys they are hanging out with are the ones who throw a stack ($100 in singles) or more on stage .
    2) Girls sell bottles. $300 bottle dancer makes $100. Back to the more old fashioned dancer make money selling drinks
    3) They sell VIP rooms and take a percentage of the room.

    LDs aren't the only way dancers can make money. This model is proven. This isn't some argument in theory about whether it might work, it does work in what is arguably the most successful strip club in the world.
    I'm lost here. Which club is this again? Also, I'm assuming that you've seen some sort of financial report on this place. Could you please post a link to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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