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Thread: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

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    Question Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Before I started dancing, I used to have a pretty intense work ethic: I was highly motivated, driven, and focused. I was very proud when I found stripping, as it seemed like a shortcut that not many people had the balls to take, and I took full advantage of that fact (I saved and invested most of my money). Yet dancing seems to have permanently changed how I view money and how I view the hours that I work, especially in straight jobs. I’ve found that it's really, really hard to silence that voice in your head that says "I could've made this money in <x hours> dancing." Even if you know that you're working your straight job because you're permanently burned out of dancing, want to build a sustainable career, want insurance and benefits, lower tax rates, normal hours, etc...you still have that voice whispering "if I danced even one night a week, I could be making twice what I'm making now..."

    Sex work is hard work. That said, it's easy to become accustomed to the shorter working hours, higher earning potential, and flexible scheduling that comes with dancing, camming, etc. I know a few people on here are extremely disciplined in how they work, but I think it's much more common to struggle with getting up the motivation to work - whether you're still dancing / camming or are working a straight job. It seems that this is at the crux of why people become "addicted" to sex work. For those of us who know we don’t have what it takes to do sex work indefinitely, we become less patient when it comes to working hard for what we want in normal jobs. After all, working is not all about money: it’s about quality of life, too. But sex work changes our mentalities to focus far more on immediate monetary gain instead of the long-term benefits of establishing a sustainable career.

    So what do you think? Has sex work affected your work ethic?

    As a side note, this is not an anti-sex work thread. We all know that this industry has some very serious advantages and disadvantages – I’m just looking to hear about your experiences!


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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    I don't think it's hurt my work ethic or ambition but it has made working a regular job intolerable. Since I've worked in the adult industry, I can't handle a 9 to 5 job anymore. I tried once and it was a disaster. It got to the point where I felt like, "Wait, there's nothing else for me to do here right now and I'm just sitting here bored waiting but I have to sit here or I won't get my paycheck? What the hell is the point of that? I have shit to do. I finished my work for the day and I have errands to run."

    It really kind of blows my mind how inefficient so many workplaces are. People just sit there waiting out the hours to make their money half of the time.

    If I ever went back to a regular job, it would have to be something that kept me busy all of the time. In the club, there was always someone to hustle and if there wasn't, I could just say screw it and go home.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    I think it really depends how you feel about your vanilla job. I used to work with a girl that worked at a coffee shop and made minimum wage-- she was adorable and always banked so it definitely wasn't for the money. She used to work Friday night, take a shower, and then work the Saturday shift. I asked her once how she was motivated to do that and she said "well, I like dancing but I would go crazy if that was my whole work life. And I love coffee and being at the coffee shop so it's worth it to me even if I don't make a lot of money."

    Granted, I personally don't love coffee so I could never be down with that, but I think if you really enjoy your vanilla job and get something out of it, emotionally-- although of course this is rare-- then you won't feel the dissatisfaction you have at the moment. I know if I was to find a full-time job in my field it would be a huge adjustment but I could come to terms with moving out of my expensive flat, ceasing to take trips (that would be the hardest one admittedly) and shopping at Neiman Marcus but I could do it because I would feel a sense of fulfillment from my job. I would not be able to do that if I was working a 9-5 that I hate.

    Don't get me wrong, I love dancing and I don't know if I could ever really quit, but there are some serious drawbacks to this job-- the financial instability (never knowing what a paycheck is gonna be), having to work when everyone else is going out to pubs/clubs, having to hide what I do from most of my friends/family, the obvious difficulties of finding a relationship (though it's not impossible, it is more difficult to find a good boyfriend when you're a dancer), having to deal with misogynistic assholes, being degraded/violated by customers... and they make it difficult. You make a lot of money in this job not just because you're a good hustler, sexy, and fun, but because you're willing to put up with all those drawbacks.
    Last edited by audrey_k; 03-27-2014 at 02:47 PM.

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    God/dess Selina M's Avatar
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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Oh, definitely.

    I just took a "big girl" job doing something I really like, it's only 4 miles from my house, and I have nights and weekends free. It's part-time and 10 hour days so I get 4 day weekends every week. My friends are pretty jealous.

    However, I'm sitting here looking at the pay rate of $11.70 an hour. As much as I may love the job, and having an "official" paycheck if I need to rent an apartment or something, I know I'm going to get off work after 10 hours, realize that I just made something like $105 after taxes, and be PISSED... because I can make that, in a BAD day at work, in 3 hours (in the air conditioning!), in a place where I don't have to kiss the asses of supervisors and patrons.
    I want to continue to dance once a week to supplement this paltry income, which will ruin my 4 day weekends (because I know I'll be way too tired to dance the day after my vanilla workweek). So that further exacerbates my resentful feelings.

    I used to be one of those "I don't care what the pay is if I love my job!" people. I also come from a pretty poor family. But now that I've gotten used to HAVING money, I do NOT want to go back to being a 9-5 slave for less than $2000 a month. I have shit that I want to do, and that shit requires money that I am not going to come by just working for someone else.

    So yeah. I've gotten used to working when I want to and not having to answer to anyone. It's only gotten worse since I moved to a club with no minimum shift length... it is literally a free-for-all and I love it, but it's not conducive to going back to the vanilla workforce where you have a schedule and a set lunch break and have to be nice to your co-workers/customers. I know I need to take the job and have some sort of history of "grown up" work now that I'm graduating from university... but I know it's going to be a struggle to not quit when I get fed up in a month.
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

    "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelGirl View Post
    I don't think it's hurt my work ethic or ambition but it has made working a regular job intolerable. Since I've worked in the adult industry, I can't handle a 9 to 5 job anymore. I tried once and it was a disaster. It got to the point where I felt like, "Wait, there's nothing else for me to do here right now and I'm just sitting here bored waiting but I have to sit here or I won't get my paycheck? What the hell is the point of that? I have shit to do. I finished my work for the day and I have errands to run."

    It really kind of blows my mind how inefficient so many workplaces are. People just sit there waiting out the hours to make their money half of the time.

    If I ever went back to a regular job, it would have to be something that kept me busy all of the time. In the club, there was always someone to hustle and if there wasn't, I could just say screw it and go home.
    This^^

    I don't think it is killing my work ethic as much as it is that my work ethic is so head and shoulders above a wage slave that the time spent at a tradition job is frustrating beyond belief. When I work as a movie extra, at least I understand that they are paying me to wait around until I'm called to the set. I may only work an hour on set out of 8, but they pay me to be ready when the director is ready. I couldn't do it full time, though. That would drive me bonkers.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Agree with MarvelGirl 110%! I'm going to school for something I love and I know I'll enjoy even if I don't make as much as I did dancing...but I tried the "regular" crappy jobs and never lasted more than a month. I do have a high work ethic but I couldn't get over the fact that I would work my ass off for what seemed like nothing. My last job was in a fast food joint..When I got my first paycheck I almost started crying. All I could think was "I'm too cute/smart for this shit!" haha! I guess next time I get burned out on dancing, I'll take another crappy min wage job and I'll be running back to the pole within a week!

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    I think dancing has definitely destroyed my work ethic, which is a double-edged sword when it comes to prospective vanilla jobs. I recently had the opportunity of a lifetime, and jumping on that bandwagon would've been incredibly fulfilling--but I just couldn't imagine having to abide by a legitimate schedule.

    I've gotten to the point where I disdain dancing, so it would be beneficial if I could learn to be more accepting of vanilla schedules. But realistically, that's just not something I'm interested in doing.

    I feel like money is initially what attracts a number of us to this business, but schedule flexibility is what keeps us here.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by aperfectseal View Post
    I suppose I am thankful though that dancing has lead me to a different career path that I know I will enjoy more than what I originally picked out as a 17yo high schooler...
    Yes, exactly. I couldn't have chosen my current career path (pursuing a BSN) when I was 18 because I just wasn't ready for that yet (I got my BA in English). Life is a process that can't be rushed.

    Plus, I'm sure your psych background and my English + LMT background will both help us in our upcoming careers.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    Before I started dancing, I used to have a pretty intense work ethic: I was highly motivated, driven, and focused. I was very proud when I found stripping, as it seemed like a shortcut that not many people had the balls to take, and I took full advantage of that fact (I saved and invested most of my money). Yet dancing seems to have permanently changed how I view money and how I view the hours that I work, especially in straight jobs. I’ve found that it's really, really hard to silence that voice in your head that says "I could've made this money in <x hours> dancing."
    of course i would feel that way.....it is because dancing spoils you

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by aperfectseal View Post
    This is going to make me sound so spoiled....
    My work ethic is destroyed. I pretty much threw away a bachelor's degree because at the time I graduated, I had been dancing for about a year and knew I would never find a job that could even compare to the pay of dancing with that degree (psychology.)
    .
    You can definitely make what you are now with a psychology degree! You would have to get a mastes/PHD, but my mom is a psychologist and she made $200,000 at the height of her career dealing with bored housewives and neurotic businessmen. Now she mostly does charity work with unemployed drug addicts. My therapist back in LA made $300,000 a year (charged $250 an hour).

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by aperfectseal View Post
    How funny I am also pursuing a BSN! I have some customers that say "Helllooooooo Nurse!" all the time, haha.
    You are going to be the hottest nurse anyone's ever seen.
    I'm pretty sure I almost walked right into you on Tuesday, but I was off in my own world and by the time I realized it was you, you were with a customer and I had to take off :/

    I think I might throw my BS degree away too, to a point. It's looking like it's going to be pretty useless. I think I'll keep the dancing freedom for a few more years!
    "People jack off with the left hand and point with the right."

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    ^The thing with a lot of careers, like being a psychologist, is that the potential IS there to make a lot of money, it's just that you just have to put in a lot of hard work and time, and it won't necessarily feel worthwhile in the beginning. It can be hard to be motivated to work for minimum wage or even just slightly more when you have the option of dancing, but if dancing isn't the endgame, the reality is that at one point, you will have to take the pay cut to be get on the path to higher earnings outside the club. There are very few jobs that pay the big bucks just for getting an undergraduate or even master's degree.

    I do find that dancing on top of starting a career is great when possible. It's a nice supplement to your earnings but you're still investing time in your future. That's what I'm currently doing -- though when I was asked to work a weekend event, all I could think of was how much more worthwhile my weekend time is since I spend Saturdays in the club, and tried to come up with a reason to not work it so I wouldn't miss out on those earnings!

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by shanna dior View Post
    ^The thing with a lot of careers, like being a psychologist, is that the potential IS there to make a lot of money, it's just that you just have to put in a lot of hard work and time, and it won't necessarily feel worthwhile in the beginning. It can be hard to be motivated to work for minimum wage or even just slightly more when you have the option of dancing, but if dancing isn't the endgame, the reality is that at one point, you will have to take the pay cut to be get on the path to higher earnings outside the club. There are very few jobs that pay the big bucks just for getting an undergraduate or even master's degree.
    EXACTLY. Thank you for concisely pinning down the struggle I was trying to express.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by aperfectseal View Post
    I pretty much threw away a bachelor's degree because at the time I graduated, I had been dancing for about a year and knew I would never find a job that could even compare to the pay of dancing with that degree (psychology.)
    Quote Originally Posted by aperfectseal View Post
    know we're gonna make great RN's!
    You didn't necessarily throw away your psychology degree. I literally just saw this job posting:

    Requirements:
    Minimum of 1 years Medical/Surgical nursing experience and interest in specialty area of Substance Dependence/Psychiatry or RN with Bachelors in Psychology, Human Services, or related field, or RN with 3-5 years experience in substance abuse, human services or related field.
    There are jobs out there for nurses who already have a background in psychology and I think that if you already have a bachelors in psychology and are pursuing an rn, an ADN can go straight to a psychiatric NP program depending on the school.

    Quote Originally Posted by shanna dior View Post
    ^The thing with a lot of careers, like being a psychologist, is that the potential IS there to make a lot of money, it's just that you just have to put in a lot of hard work and time, and it won't necessarily feel worthwhile in the beginning. It can be hard to be motivated to work for minimum wage or even just slightly more when you have the option of dancing, but if dancing isn't the endgame, the reality is that at one point, you will have to take the pay cut to be get on the path to higher earnings outside the club.
    Thanks for this. My old boss and I talked about this. He said it like this: in the five years a girl spent dancing vs. spending five years working on her career (as long as it's a lucrative one), the girl who chose to dance lost out on a lot of financial gain in the long term. This may not have been true many years ago when dancing was much more lucrative than it is now without travel dancing.

    But back to Charlie's point, I think for me it's done the opposite. I think dancing increased my work ethic because when I worked in clubs where the managers treated the girls kindly and rewarded good behavior (which were few and far in between in the areas I danced in), I was very appreciative, stuck around and did my best to work hard and help make the club money. I did my best to keep to myself and stay out of trouble, show up on time, and do my work. The managers and owners would notice this and I would be rewarded. There were also bad clubs with high dancer turnover rates and those didn't end well.

    Now it's the same in my day job. Dancing gave me a thick skin and it helps me get on with day to day bullshit at my regular job. I get to keep my clothes on and work with 'normal' people and don't have to deal with too many misogynistic assholes and fluctuating income like Audrey K said. I keep to myself and try to stay out of gossip and job politics just like at the club. If my employers are good to me, I will be good to them in return and won't want to run off to some other job. I had to adjust to the slightly lower earnings, but I eventually got used to it and I know that my earnings will only increase as my experience grows. I also supplement my income by dancing on the side once or twice a week.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    hmm idk.. i've been working since i was 15, crap jobs for 8 years before i started dancing and i've always had a great work ethic, but if anything dancing has made me much less lazy. with other jobs i could punch my time clock, mess around at work, go in grumpy and looking like shit, zone out, and i'd still get an hourly wage. i didn't have to put in as much effort as with dancing where i'm in charge of whether i walk out in then negative, or with a grand. its up to ME and me alone how much i make and whether i'm good at my job. its also made me realize i really like being more of an entrepreneur. and my club is scheduled, so we still have to show up on time for ten hours shifts so i don't have as much freedom as a lot of other dancers do , so i'd say my work ethic has stayed the same. during burn out its the only thing that keeps me coming back in day after day.
    on the other hand, is has DEFINITELY spoiled me. i can never happily go back to a normal vanilla job after this..unless its one hell of a job! the idea of having to pay ridiculous tuition prices, racking up federal debt to make just as much or less than i do now is depressing as hell to me.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Also pursuing Nursing!

    But to speak to the OP's point, I think dancing has actually reconciled that feeling of "why the hell am I working so inefficiently for someone else, for pay that is usually not merit-based?," when I have always wanted to be directly compensated for my time and then leave

    I, too, pursued a bachelor's which can not particularly do much for me in this economy, but Stripping makes up for it. My drive and work ethic are just as strong - but I like to use it to help myself, not the traditional office/retail setup. It's stripping then nursing for me and since both keep you busy, I'm hoping it's a smooth transition!
    Life is like a bicycle: to stay balanced, you must keep moving - Unknown

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Also pursuing Nursing!

    But to speak to the OP's point, I think dancing has actually reconciled that feeling of "why the hell am I working so inefficiently for someone else, for pay that is usually not merit-based?," when I have always wanted to be directly compensated for my time and then leave

    I, too, pursued a bachelor's which can not particularly do much for me in this economy, but Stripping makes up for it. My drive and work ethic are just as strong - but I like to use it to help myself, not the traditional office/retail setup. It's stripping then nursing for me and since both keep you busy, I'm hoping it's a smooth transition!
    Life is like a bicycle: to stay balanced, you must keep moving - Unknown

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    No :/





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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    I wouldn't say it killed my work ethic but it does make the idea of having a vanilla job seem less appealing... I have always been a highly motivated and driven person, during my years in college I was studying full-time and working 35 hours per week. Thinking about it now, I really don't know how I was able to do that for 2 years... Now I only work 10 hours per week while attending University and I make as much, if not more than I did before.

    I am still very hard-working, I have no trouble studying 10-12 hours 6 days per week, I don't complain. I know I am working towards my career, which will be rewarding and the salary worth it for me to stop doing sex work. But I quit my vanilla job in Fall 2013 after 3 years and I have no intention of working another student's job just yet. I don't find it worthwhile, I just feel like I would be wasting my time. In fact, I registered for a full-time 3 months summer course and took up a volunteering position just so I would have an excuse not to find a seasonal job this summer lol.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    My old boss and I talked about this. He said it like this: in the five years a girl spent dancing vs. spending five years working on her career (as long as it's a lucrative one), the girl who chose to dance lost out on a lot of financial gain in the long term. This may not have been true many years ago when dancing was much more lucrative than it is now without travel dancing.
    If you factor in 4 years worth of college with zero net income, plus 6 years worth of 'entry level' straight job paychecks, compared to 10 years worth of maximizing 'peak earnings' potential as a serious professional dancer ( and saving / investing a good portion of the proceeds ), with extremely few exceptions the girl choosing the college degree and professional career will NEVER actually catch up to the 'serious professional' dancer in purely financial terms if everything is accurately accounted for !!!

    The culprit, of course, is the 'time value of money'. After ten years worth of 'serious professional' dancing earning $100k+ per year, the girl should have been able to save / invest $250-$500k out of her 10 years worth of dancing earnings. That $250-500k 'nest egg' will in turn generate something like $12-25k per year of passive income, year after year, forever. In contrast, the girl who spent 10 years studying and working up the 'entry level' career ladder probably will have zero net savings / investments after those 10 years.

    So now this boils down to a 'calculated risk' that, for the remaining 30 years prior to reaching retirement age, the college educated professional will be able to earn enough additional money ( after taxes ) to come out ahead versus the retired dancer working for a 'straight' job paycheck plus still receiving $12-25k per year of passive income !!! And on top of this, the college educated professional would need to earn yet more additional money to compensate for the first 10 years she spent studying ( with zero income ) and working up the career 'ladder' ( with 'entry level' income ).

    Guesswork says that, net of progressive income taxes, the college educated professional needs to be able to earn some $80k per year ( in current dollars ) from year 11 through retirement to actually come out ahead versus a dancer who earned $100k+ for ten years plus perhaps $40k per year at a straight job for another 30 years. The second culprit, of course, is 'progressive income tax rates' ... with the $80k per year professional paycheck being taxed at a high effective income tax rate, compared to the $40k straight job paycheck being taxed at much lower effective income tax rates plus the passive investment earnings being taxed at 'capital gains' tax rates which are lower still !

    It's true that some US professional jobs do indeed pay more than $80k per year. However, most do not. And this involves another 'calculated risk' that $80k+ high paying professional jobs which do exist today will STILL exist 20-30-40 years from now and will still be paying similarly high amounts. Given the present situation with H1-B 'imported' professionals, with the outsourcing of 'professional services' to lower cost countries, with de-facto 'expanded' US immigration etc., IMHO this is a BIG risk factor !!!

    I would also add that if a 'serious professional' dancer is able to continue dancing beyond the 10 year mark, every additional year's high dancer earnings potential ... and every year's additional contributions to savings / investments ... puts her further 'ahead' of the college educated professional. Also, every borrowed student loan dollar that the college educated professional must pay back once they start working puts them further 'behind' the dancer.

    On the flip side, it's admittedly extremely difficult for a 'serious professional' dancer to both A.) continue to put forth a full time effort ( vs 'slacking off' to part time ) , and B.) continue to divert a large portion of her earnings towards savings / investments ( vs spending it on non-essential 'niceties' ), for 10 solid years. Some girls are cut out for this, but many are not. And if the girl has chosen to pursue the 'serious professional' dancer route, but in fact fails to maximize her earnings and/or fails to save / invest a significant portion of those high earnings, things will 'not be pretty' when she is forced to retire from dancing.
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-28-2014 at 08:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    It's changed my work ethic in good and bad ways. It's solidified the idea in my mind of being an entrepreneur, because after years of dancing my way through uni I KNOW that I will be able to do that in my field to build myself a vanilla career. In the last year I've become much more disciplined with my work schedule (for both dancing and business projects). It's made me intolerant of taking jobs that I know would underpay me and concurrently bore me to tears at the same time but also made me more ballsy about going after/taking contracts that I know may challenge me, but have good payoff (for example, I took this sewing contract this last summer that I knew I probably shouldn't have, I didn't have all the proper equipment, but I just wanted the connections and experience so badly, I took it anyways, found a way to do it, and now have 2 great contacts who have been helping me make even more connections in my industry, so it worked out.)

    So yes while I may not be bending over backwards at wage jobs anymore, it has made me significantly less afraid of taking risks. And significantly improved my ability to "think on my feet" and go after my goals. On the whole, I think it has resulted in an improvement of my work ethic in that I'm way less of a doormat than I used to be. And a doormat would never have made for a very successful entrepreneur. Though I would have turned out to be someone's dream underpaid employee
    "We can't expect you to just know all the secrets of our top-secret-titty-club!" --Jenna Marbles

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    On the flip side, it's admittedly extremely difficult for a 'serious professional' dancer to both A.) continue to put forth a full time effort ( vs 'slacking off' to part time ) , and B.) continue to divert a large portion of her earnings towards savings / investments ( vs spending it on non-essential 'niceties' ), for 10 solid years. Some girls are cut out for this, but many are not. And if the girl has chosen to pursue the 'serious professional' dancer route, but in fact fails to maximize her earnings and/or fails to save / invest a significant portion of those high earnings, things will 'not be pretty' when she is forced to retire from dancing.
    I really don't want to turn this into a college vs. stripping thread. That wasn't my intention. This is a thread about how stripping affects work ethic. Also, I know you had a very different experience with stripping due to your having danced in an entirely different era than the girls dancing now, your abnormally high resilience to burnout, and due to your willingness to commit to the job (e.g. extreme plastic surgery).

    I'll assume that your answer to the question I posed is that sex work did not negatively impact your work ethic.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by shanna dior View Post
    ^The thing with a lot of careers, like being a psychologist, is that the potential IS there to make a lot of money, it's just that you just have to put in a lot of hard work and time, and it won't necessarily feel worthwhile in the beginning.
    A psychology degree is literally the lowest paying degree in the US right now. Of course, you could probably use that degree to earn more $$ as a stripper, but I don't think the statistics will show that very well.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ies-are-so-low

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  44. #24
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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    Quote Originally Posted by IsisofNyc View Post
    Also pursuing Nursing!

    "why the hell am I working so inefficiently for someone else, for pay that is usually not merit-based?,"
    You'll have days where you'll feel like that in nursing, trust me.

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    Default Re: Has dancing killed your work ethic?

    I really don't want to turn this into a college vs. stripping thread. That wasn't my intention. This is a thread about how stripping affects work ethic
    I can respect that ! Along those lines ...

    ... one of the major 'destroyers' of dancers' work ethic is arguably 'too much success'. With the high levels of income that are ( still ) available via dancing compared to non-professional 'straight' jobs, it's all too easy for a dancer to slack off once she has earned the X dollars per week necessary to meet her immediate needs and support her lifestyle.

    This is of course an extremely short-sighted position, since it ignores the fact that ... like professional athletes ... the window of high dancer earnings opportunity is short-lived. This can lead to a dangerous situation 10 years down the road, when the high dancer earnings window starts to close, the girl has failed to set aside much money in the form of savings / investments, and the girl has developed a very poor work ethic which will compromise her future 'straight' job performance.

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